an electronish puzzle

"John Larkin" <jjSNIPlarkin@highTHISlandPLEASEtechnology.XXX> wrote
in message news:lkvp31t0osh95889anttbj98c1aq1gl9oq@4ax.com...
On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 20:25:45 -0800, "Larry Brasfield"
donotspam_larry_brasfield@hotmail.com> wrote:

Zenering injects majority carriers into the base. They
do not contribute directly to C-B current flow for the
same reason that majority carriers there naturally do
not contribute. One 2nd order effect is that the extra
majority carriers reduce the equilibrium density of
minority carriers in the base region, reducing what is
usually thought of as the C-B leakage.

Does it really work that way? The Pease thing suggests that the zener
lights up and illuminates the c-b junction, which would cause
photodiode-mode leakage. So there would be opposing effects, I
suppose.
I'm only stating the effect of the 2nd order effect
I mentioned. There are a few others. You have
to add them all up if you're nuts enough to want
to predict how they will show up in real devices.

That is an interesting effect, if it occurs. I have
not researched or studied light emission by
silicon diodes, having learned in school that
Si is very inefficient at that due to its indirect
bandgap structure. What puzzles me about
the "emission while zenering" claim is that the
extra carriers that have tunneled across the
junction are just like the ones normally present.
It would only be via recombination that there
would be emission, and the majority carrier
injection at any normal current is low enough
that it should not change the density that much.
The clincher is that minority carrier generation
is essentially unchanged, and that would limit
the emission rate whether some extra majority
carriers were floating around or not. So I am
quite skeptical of that claim. (But willing to be
educated by anybody who really knows better.)

There are, somewhere on the web, some cool microphotographs of light
pouring out of planar transistor b-e junctions.
Those wouldn't be GaAs transistors? If it was
Si transistors, I would love to see a link or a
few keywords to aid a search.

Since then, I
used it to sort out the posers from the knowers in
interviews where appropriate.

So, you won't hire people who don't know about this?
Please, John. That "appropriate" would be poorly used
if it meant what you suggest. I tried to avoid duplicating
my criteria for asking about that, already mentioned here.

Why would I consider someone a poser who did not
know that? If you knew me, I would not have to tell
you the answer: Only if the interviewee's resume claims
an understanding of semiconductor physics do I even
bring out that question. (That's why I've only done it
maybe 5-8 times.) Even then, if they are able to give
a wrong answer, but with some supporting reasoning
that makes sense (given their assumptions), I go on
to discover if they can back out when we revisit the
wrong assumption(s). (The few who get this wrong
instead of just giving up usually have forgotten some
basics of PN junction tunneling.)

I've never been the hiring authority, but I have often
given a good hire recommendation to applicants who
get a few things wrong in a tough interview yet are
able to get to the issues when discussing those errors.
Likewise, I have given a definite thumbs-down to a
lot of people who are smart but much less smart than
they imagine or pretend.

And just to quash the notion that I conduct a mean
interview, several of the people who suffered thru
it are among my longtime friends. One of them
even shows up here from time to time.

--
--Larry Brasfield
email: donotspam_larry_brasfield@hotmail.com
Above views may belong only to me.
 
"Fred Bloggs" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in
message news:423D030F.3060507@nospam.com...
Larry Brasfield wrote:

Zenering injects majority carriers into the base. They
do not contribute directly to C-B current flow for the
same reason that majority carriers there naturally do
not contribute. One 2nd order effect is that the extra
majority carriers reduce the equilibrium density of
minority carriers in the base region, reducing what is
usually thought of as the C-B leakage.

Purely descriptive nonsense and absent of any real meat like the energy band theory of solids.
I would not expect you to understand it, Fred.
And while I imagine that you could copy many
bits of theory into a post, I doubt that it would
be to make the point ostensibly at issue.

My original interest in the problem arose from an
assignment by a mentor to go work out all the
single point failure modes in a circuit where it was
thought to matter. I'm sure he planned to check
that work thoroughly, but the puzzle question was
one where he doubted the result I claimed and so
I had to persuade him, which I did.

There you go again with another of these incessant "let me tell you how I put someone down again" stories...pathetic.
What is truly pathetic is your projection of your own
miserable outlook into a fantasy about what was a
mutually enjoyed, healthy relationship between that
mentor, (to whom I owe a lifetime of thanks), and me.

To suggest that I was involved in trying to put him
down, as he continued my education by insisting that
I defend my conclusion, is just plain sick. It reveals
the depth of your depravity and decline.

--
--Larry Brasfield
email: donotspam_larry_brasfield@hotmail.com
Above views may belong only to me.
 
On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 20:46:18 -0800, John Larkin
<jjSNIPlarkin@highTHISlandPLEASEtechnology.XXX> wrote:


There are, somewhere on the web, some cool microphotographs of light
pouring out of planar transistor b-e junctions.
---
Tiny little teentsy-weentsy photos?^)

--
John Fields
 
On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 08:29:53 -0800, "Larry Brasfield"
<donotspam_larry_brasfield@hotmail.com> wrote:

"Fred Bloggs" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in
message news:423D030F.3060507@nospam.com...
[snip]

There you go again with another of these incessant "let me tell you how I put someone down again" stories...pathetic.

What is truly pathetic is your projection of your own
miserable outlook into a fantasy about what was a
mutually enjoyed, healthy relationship between that
mentor, (to whom I owe a lifetime of thanks), and me.

To suggest that I was involved in trying to put him
down, as he continued my education by insisting that
I defend my conclusion, is just plain sick. It reveals
the depth of your depravity and decline.
Your Pollyanna self-adornment IS becoming sickingly sweet ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
Larry Brasfield wrote:
"Fred Bloggs" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in
message news:423D030F.3060507@nospam.com...

Larry Brasfield wrote:


Zenering injects majority carriers into the base. They
do not contribute directly to C-B current flow for the
same reason that majority carriers there naturally do
not contribute. One 2nd order effect is that the extra
majority carriers reduce the equilibrium density of
minority carriers in the base region, reducing what is
usually thought of as the C-B leakage.

Purely descriptive nonsense and absent of any real meat like the
energy band theory of solids.


I would not expect you to understand it, Fred.
And while I imagine that you could copy many
bits of theory into a post, I doubt that it would
be to make the point ostensibly at issue.
Everything you say has been proven to be a lot of hot air and bs so far-
you have no credibility here- so you can go to hell. This will be one
place about which you will *never* be able to make up one of your bs
ego-nut stories about turning anyone around to recognize your great
genius. You are a sorry sack of sh_t.


There you go again with another of these incessant "let me tell you
how I put someone down again" stories...pathetic.


What is truly pathetic is ....
[..snip drivel...]
 
On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 11:02:11 -0600, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 20:46:18 -0800, John Larkin
jjSNIPlarkin@highTHISlandPLEASEtechnology.XXX> wrote:


There are, somewhere on the web, some cool microphotographs of light
pouring out of planar transistor b-e junctions.

---
Tiny little teentsy-weentsy photos?^)
Silicon junctions in breakdown DO light up... I know from unfortunate
experience :-(

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
In article <1111293879.325727.167530@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
JeffM <jeffm_@email.com> wrote:
The pop-tronics surf synthesizer used a back biased E-B junction
as the basic white noise source.
Don't try this trick with a Darlington
unless you want an only slightly random saw tooth.
Ken Smith

Somebody putting those suckers in the wrong drawer again?
Actually no, I tried it as a way to get a higher voltage zener. If you
look just at the symbol, you'd get the impression it would work. If you
think about the actual silicon, you'll see the 4 layered device.

the meter on the collector circuit twitches up scale
just as there is a bright flash and a loud bang.

Do you have a klaxon rigged to the switch of your bench supply? :cool:
I don't need one. The bench supply makes enough noise on its own.



--
--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge
 
"Larry Brasfield" <donotspam_larry_brasfield@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7X6%d.73$te2.851@news.uswest.net...
"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com
wrote in message news:64lp31tmppr5e0iqki0s7jf2vsq5jmiofm@4ax.com...

For Pete's sake, tell us or don't.

Alright. Since nobody got interested in this, I'll keep
this quite short and simple.
No-one got interested in it because it wasn't.

Zenering injects majority carriers into the base. They
do not contribute directly to C-B current flow for the
same reason that majority carriers there naturally do
not contribute. One 2nd order effect is that the extra
majority carriers reduce the equilibrium density of
minority carriers in the base region, reducing what is
usually thought of as the C-B leakage.
No, I'm not having that.

You wanted to know what would happen if,

'You have a BJT of the usual sort, having
a low emitter-base reverse breakdown voltage.
Reverse bias the collector-base junction and put
a current meter in series with the collector. Now,
force a small current, in breakdown mode, thru
the emitter-base junction. What happens to the
current as indicated by the meter? Now, why?'

You posed the question, give the proper results and reasons.

Assume I'm thick, because I am.

And don't wave your hands about.

--
--Larry Brasfield
email: larry.brasfield@hotmail.com
I have noticed that many people on this planet
are sad lonely entities and will never have the
opportunity to be my freinds.
The above view belongs only to me.
See, it's mine. Right!
It's their fault too, So there.
Go get your own reason.
DNA
 
Larry Brasfield wrote:

...it can be a fun discussion....

...the resident idiots...
Having a fun discussion.

Calling people names.

Please pick one.
 
"Guy Macon" <_see.web.page_@_www.guymacon.com_> wrote
in message news:113remg7vgsna7f@corp.supernews.com...
Larry Brasfield wrote:

...it can be a fun discussion....

...the resident idiots...

Having a fun discussion.

Calling people names.

Please pick one.

Good point. "Can be" is hypothetical and
conditional. "[T]he resident idiots" is an
"If the shoe fits, wear it." kind of thing.
It could refer to the empty set, ideally.

I will try to avoid more name calling.

--
--Larry Brasfield
email: donotspam_larry_brasfield@hotmail.com
Above views may belong only to me.
 
"Genome" <ilike_spam@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:_qi%d.31905$3A6.10395@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
Alright. Since nobody got interested in this, I'll keep
this quite short and simple.

No-one got interested in it because it wasn't.
Hmmm. One wonders why you post on it.

Zenering injects majority carriers into the base. They
do not contribute directly to C-B current flow for the
same reason that majority carriers there naturally do
not contribute. One 2nd order effect is that the extra
majority carriers reduce the equilibrium density of
minority carriers in the base region, reducing what is
usually thought of as the C-B leakage.

No, I'm not having that.

You wanted to know what would happen if,

'You have a BJT of the usual sort, having
a low emitter-base reverse breakdown voltage.
Reverse bias the collector-base junction and put
a current meter in series with the collector. Now,
force a small current, in breakdown mode, thru
the emitter-base junction. What happens to the
current as indicated by the meter? Now, why?'

You posed the question, give the proper results and reasons.
So, now you *are* interested?

Assume I'm thick, because I am.
I have no idea where to start, then. If there was
any particular sentence or clause that you would
like clarified, I could maybe do that or direct you
to some relevant subjects to do web research on.

Maybe what was unclear (because only evident
from context) is that forcing that current through
the b-e junction in "breakdown" results in a
process (called "zenering" here) where carriers
tunnel through the very thin potential barrier
existing around and near that junction. Those
carriers are minority carriers before tunnelling
and majority carriers afterward.

And don't wave your hands about.
Hard to do in writing. But you must understand
that if you keep asking why to ever more detailed
explanations of things, it has to end somehow.

(Quoted signature fragment left for context.)
--
--Larry Brasfield
email: larry.brasfield@hotmail.com
Before I quoted them with another leading '>',
Genome wrote the next 7 lines with '>' marks in place:
I have noticed that many people on this planet
are sad lonely entities and will never have the
opportunity to be my freinds.
The above view belongs only to me.
See, it's mine. Right!
It's their fault too, So there.
Go get your own reason.
Cute, changing a signature like that. Deceptive
though, without removing the quotation markers.
Please be more careful in the future.

--
--Larry Brasfield
email: donotspam_larry_brasfield@hotmail.com
Above views may belong only to me.
 
On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 10:17:58 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 11:02:11 -0600, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 20:46:18 -0800, John Larkin
jjSNIPlarkin@highTHISlandPLEASEtechnology.XXX> wrote:


There are, somewhere on the web, some cool microphotographs of light
pouring out of planar transistor b-e junctions.

---
Tiny little teentsy-weentsy photos?^)

Silicon junctions in breakdown DO light up... I know from unfortunate
experience :-(
---
Sigh... ;)

A microphotograph is a teentsy-weentsy photograph.

A photomicrograph is a photograph (usually a blowup) of something
teentsy-weentsy.

--
John Fields
 
On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 08:31:56 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 19:19:59 -0800, John Larkin
jjSNIPlarkin@highTHISlandPLEASEtechnology.XXX> wrote:

[snip]

But zenering a transistor does permanently damage to beta, so once
it's a zener, it's always a zener.

Does anybody know how much zenering (in coulombs or whatever) it takes
to hurt a common small-sig transistor?


[snip]

John

About three days at 1mA and 100°C will cause the "zener" voltage to
collapse in "D" type plastic packages.

...Jim Thompson

I don't remember having any trouble with our transistor-as-reference
zener things. I recall running them at a couple mA, which was the tc
sweet spot. I think they were the old GE things in the funny
cylinder+halfpipe package with the concave top. Maybe they were klunky
geometries, big junctions or something.

GE did make a wonderful monolithic back-to-back zener in the same
package. It made a good reference, and was great as a symmetric clamp
in opamp circuits. D13T1, H11F1, something like that. They also made
"reference amplifiers" which were transistors with zeners in the
emitters; they were outrageously stable, and Fluke used them as the
ref in their later differential voltmeters.

John
 
On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 08:15:33 -0800, "Larry Brasfield"
<donotspam_larry_brasfield@hotmail.com> wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjSNIPlarkin@highTHISlandPLEASEtechnology.XXX> wrote
in message news:lkvp31t0osh95889anttbj98c1aq1gl9oq@4ax.com...
On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 20:25:45 -0800, "Larry Brasfield"
donotspam_larry_brasfield@hotmail.com> wrote:

Zenering injects majority carriers into the base. They
do not contribute directly to C-B current flow for the
same reason that majority carriers there naturally do
not contribute. One 2nd order effect is that the extra
majority carriers reduce the equilibrium density of
minority carriers in the base region, reducing what is
usually thought of as the C-B leakage.

Does it really work that way? The Pease thing suggests that the zener
lights up and illuminates the c-b junction, which would cause
photodiode-mode leakage. So there would be opposing effects, I
suppose.

I'm only stating the effect of the 2nd order effect
I mentioned. There are a few others. You have
to add them all up if you're nuts enough to want
to predict how they will show up in real devices.

That is an interesting effect, if it occurs. I have
not researched or studied light emission by
silicon diodes, having learned in school that
Si is very inefficient at that due to its indirect
bandgap structure. What puzzles me about
the "emission while zenering" claim is that the
extra carriers that have tunneled across the
junction are just like the ones normally present.
It would only be via recombination that there
would be emission, and the majority carrier
injection at any normal current is low enough
that it should not change the density that much.
The clincher is that minority carrier generation
is essentially unchanged, and that would limit
the emission rate whether some extra majority
carriers were floating around or not. So I am
quite skeptical of that claim. (But willing to be
educated by anybody who really knows better.)

There are, somewhere on the web, some cool microphotographs of light
pouring out of planar transistor b-e junctions.

Those wouldn't be GaAs transistors? If it was
Si transistors, I would love to see a link or a
few keywords to aid a search.

It's easy to google; you get stuff like...

http://retina.et.tudelft.nl/data/artwork/publication/648815334.pdf


I've seen some very pretty microphotographs of the light somewhere.

John
 
On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 12:41:34 -0600, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 10:17:58 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 11:02:11 -0600, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 20:46:18 -0800, John Larkin
jjSNIPlarkin@highTHISlandPLEASEtechnology.XXX> wrote:


There are, somewhere on the web, some cool microphotographs of light
pouring out of planar transistor b-e junctions.

---
Tiny little teentsy-weentsy photos?^)

Silicon junctions in breakdown DO light up... I know from unfortunate
experience :-(

---
Sigh... ;)

A microphotograph is a teentsy-weentsy photograph.

A photomicrograph is a photograph (usually a blowup) of something
teentsy-weentsy.

Oh God! How will I ever live this down? My NG credibility lies in
ruins. Fred will use this against me for years to come.

John
 
"John Larkin" <jjSNIPlarkin@highTHISlandPLEASEtechnology.XXX> wrote
in message news:grhr31p7c0ebsed5qtl4ih0l2orda1vr12@4ax.com...
On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 08:15:33 -0800, "Larry Brasfield"
donotspam_larry_brasfield@hotmail.com> wrote:
"John Larkin" <jjSNIPlarkin@highTHISlandPLEASEtechnology.XXX> wrote
in message news:lkvp31t0osh95889anttbj98c1aq1gl9oq@4ax.com...
....
Does it really work that way? The Pease thing suggests that the zener
lights up and illuminates the c-b junction, which would cause
photodiode-mode leakage. So there would be opposing effects, I
suppose.
At this point, I think Pease would be mistaken in that
suggestion. (Still willing to be educated, however.)
I have not found that article, so he may well have
been referring to the effect in the paper you pointed
out rather than the one in the puzzle. More later.

There are, somewhere on the web, some cool microphotographs of light
pouring out of planar transistor b-e junctions.

Those wouldn't be GaAs transistors? If it was
Si transistors, I would love to see a link or a
few keywords to aid a search.

It's easy to google; you get stuff like...

http://retina.et.tudelft.nl/data/artwork/publication/648815334.pdf
Thanks a bunch. (And thanks for not sending me
to that "Somebody wants you to use Google" site!)

As that paper makes clear, it is avalanche breakdown
that produces the carriers that can recombine (and
sometime emit) to create that light. Since avalanche
produces carriers of both kinds (majority/minority),
it is distinctly different from zener breakdown, where
only minority carriers tunnel and become majority
carriers. So my skepticism remains regarding the
emission of light due to a zenering b-e junction.

I've seen some very pretty microphotographs of the light somewhere.
I wonder where it comes out.

--
--Larry Brasfield
email: donotspam_larry_brasfield@hotmail.com
Above views may belong only to me.
 
Genome wrote:
"Larry Brasfield" <donotspam_larry_brasfield@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Vrj%d.35$SP2.695@news.uswest.net...

"Genome" <ilike_spam@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:_qi%d.31905$3A6.10395@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...

Alright. Since nobody got interested in this, I'll keep
this quite short and simple.

No-one got interested in it because it wasn't.

Hmmm. One wonders why you post on it.


Zenering injects majority carriers into the base. They
do not contribute directly to C-B current flow for the
same reason that majority carriers there naturally do
not contribute. One 2nd order effect is that the extra
majority carriers reduce the equilibrium density of
minority carriers in the base region, reducing what is
usually thought of as the C-B leakage.

No, I'm not having that.

You wanted to know what would happen if,

'You have a BJT of the usual sort, having
a low emitter-base reverse breakdown voltage.
Reverse bias the collector-base junction and put
a current meter in series with the collector. Now,
force a small current, in breakdown mode, thru
the emitter-base junction. What happens to the
current as indicated by the meter? Now, why?'

You posed the question, give the proper results and reasons.

So, now you *are* interested?


Yawn, do you notice a disparity between your above quoted explanation and
your above quoted question?

No I'm not interested.

I know I don't know the answer to your uninteresting question. I also know
that the uninteresting answer that you gave to your uninteresting question
didn't answer it in a most uninteresting way.

I therefore asked you to give an uninteresting answer to your uninteresting
question that would be a proper answer to the original uninteresting
question.

Uninterestingly enough, because it was expected, you chose not to.

I have some seriously interesting navel fluff to contemplate, I might be
eating it later.

Humour me

OK Larry..... What day is it today?

I'll let you be two days out. One for the dateline and one for reading the
message. No peeking now.


DNA
Lol- this Brasfield must be addicted to being confused. He has no
concept of coherent understanding- just a lot of gibberish floating
around in his head that his ego uses to form a feeling of singular
understanding only he possesses. He is a truly sick troll.
 
On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 10:49:38 -0800, John Larkin
<jjSNIPlarkin@highTHISlandPLEASEtechnology.XXX> wrote:


GE did make a wonderful monolithic back-to-back zener in the same
package. It made a good reference, and was great as a symmetric clamp
in opamp circuits. D13T1, H11F1, something like that. They also made
"reference amplifiers" which were transistors with zeners in the
emitters; they were outrageously stable, and Fluke used them as the
ref in their later differential voltmeters.
---
The H11F1 is a bilateral photo-FET, an interesting optocoupler with a
FET as the target for the LED. The FET looks like a variable resistor
with a resistance which changes with LED current, and cares not in
which direction current flows through it. I've used them as feedback
resistors around opamps for gain control (sort of like an LED LDR
pair, but in a 6 pin dip) and they work well.

--
John Fields
 
On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 11:40:30 -0800, "Larry Brasfield"
<donotspam_larry_brasfield@hotmail.com> wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjSNIPlarkin@highTHISlandPLEASEtechnology.XXX> wrote
in message news:grhr31p7c0ebsed5qtl4ih0l2orda1vr12@4ax.com...
On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 08:15:33 -0800, "Larry Brasfield"
donotspam_larry_brasfield@hotmail.com> wrote:
"John Larkin" <jjSNIPlarkin@highTHISlandPLEASEtechnology.XXX> wrote
in message news:lkvp31t0osh95889anttbj98c1aq1gl9oq@4ax.com...
...
Does it really work that way? The Pease thing suggests that the zener
lights up and illuminates the c-b junction, which would cause
photodiode-mode leakage. So there would be opposing effects, I
suppose.

At this point, I think Pease would be mistaken in that
suggestion. (Still willing to be educated, however.)
I have not found that article, so he may well have
been referring to the effect in the paper you pointed
out rather than the one in the puzzle. More later.

There are, somewhere on the web, some cool microphotographs of light
pouring out of planar transistor b-e junctions.

Those wouldn't be GaAs transistors? If it was
Si transistors, I would love to see a link or a
few keywords to aid a search.

It's easy to google; you get stuff like...

http://retina.et.tudelft.nl/data/artwork/publication/648815334.pdf

Thanks a bunch. (And thanks for not sending me
to that "Somebody wants you to use Google" site!)

As that paper makes clear, it is avalanche breakdown
that produces the carriers that can recombine (and
sometime emit) to create that light. Since avalanche
produces carriers of both kinds (majority/minority),
it is distinctly different from zener breakdown, where
only minority carriers tunnel and become majority
carriers. So my skepticism remains regarding the
emission of light due to a zenering b-e junction.
Well, the base is back-biased until it conducts, and light comes out.
If you want to be picky about avalanche-v-zener, go for it.

I've seen some very pretty microphotographs of the light somewhere.

I wonder where it comes out.
Pics I've seen, it was a thin closed path, twisty ring sort of thing,
that corresponded to the edges of the base diffusion. Very pretty.

John
 
"John Larkin" <jjSNIPlarkin@highTHISlandPLEASEtechnology.XXX> wrote
in message news:ltlr31dro8bg23jv17olgsrudq3m6f9kk5@4ax.com...
On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 11:40:30 -0800, "Larry Brasfield"
donotspam_larry_brasfield@hotmail.com> wrote:
...
As that paper makes clear, it is avalanche breakdown
that produces the carriers that can recombine (and
sometime emit) to create that light. Since avalanche
produces carriers of both kinds (majority/minority),
it is distinctly different from zener breakdown, where
only minority carriers tunnel and become majority
carriers. So my skepticism remains regarding the
emission of light due to a zenering b-e junction.

Well, the base is back-biased until it conducts, and light comes out.
If you want to be picky about avalanche-v-zener, go for it.
Well, I am picky. Sometimes even when it matters.
As I wrote earlier, I do not think "zenering" creates
the same kind of carriers as avalanching, and that
the majority carriers from "zenering" (tunnelling) are
not going to produce that light emission.

Maybe I did not make this quite clear in the puzzle
question, but when I stated "a BJT of the usual sort,
having a low emitter-base reverse breakdown voltage",
tunnelling is at least indicated. (And to the extent it
is ambigous, an issue for discussion or assumption.)

--
--Larry Brasfield
email: donotspam_larry_brasfield@hotmail.com
Above views may belong only to me.
 

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