Almost newbie needs to troubleshoot electric guitar effect

[goldenhound]

I've built some kits, and can use a soldering iron, but know almost
nothing about trying to troubleshoot a battery-powered electric guitar
effect. Its an Electro Harmonix Electric Mistress Flanger, and it
consists of about two dozen components. I can find where the power
source connects to the board. I hit the first IC and I don't get a
signal, but am I doing it right? How do I test it?

I built a signal probe. I plug a CD player into the "guitar in", and
touch the probe to the PCB trace (which connects to an audio
amplifier), and the music comes out of the amp if I'm following the
trace correctly. Will that help me find the bad component?

1. I should be able to trace power, no?

2. How do you follow a trace on a PCB when it hits an IC or cap or
resistor? Do you have to disconnect it or ?

Whats a good reference for troubleshooting PCB boards and circuits?
Either on the web or in a book?

TIA mucho,
Rob

 

[Michael Black]

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008, tempus fugit wrote:

"goldenhound" <goldenhound104@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fe75cc7f-42fd-4752-bea5-90b51b935dc9@r15g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
I've built some kits, and can use a soldering iron, but know almost
nothing about trying to troubleshoot a battery-powered electric guitar
effect. Its an Electro Harmonix Electric Mistress Flanger, and it
consists of about two dozen components. I can find where the power
source connects to the board. I hit the first IC and I don't get a
signal, but am I doing it right? How do I test it?

I built a signal probe. I plug a CD player into the "guitar in", and
touch the probe to the PCB trace (which connects to an audio
amplifier), and the music comes out of the amp if I'm following the
trace correctly. Will that help me find the bad component?

1. I should be able to trace power, no?

2. How do you follow a trace on a PCB when it hits an IC or cap or
resistor? Do you have to disconnect it or ?

Whats a good reference for troubleshooting PCB boards and circuits?
Either on the web or in a book?

TIA mucho,
Rob

You say you hit the 1st IC and yhou dont get a signal. You need to know what
that IC is and what pins to test to see if your audio should be travelling
down that path. DId you get the schematic that was linked in an earlier
reply? Also, what's wrong with the flanger? Knowing what the symptoms are
can help us to point you in the right direction. It's hard to suggest a plan
of action for testing when we dont know what the problem is.

It really would help to see the schematic, especially since all kinds

of things get misnamed.

Since by definition a flanger, if this really is a flanger, the
audio is split into two paths, one going through a delay line
and the other going directly to the output, where it's combined
with the output of the delay line.

Hence, if there's no audio at the output, then it's likely something
really simple. Either an early buffer stage, or a stage at the output
that combines the two signal paths. Otherwise, there would be audio
at the output, just no flanging effect if there was something wrong
with the delay line.

Which of course reinforces the need for understanding before
troubleshooting. If you can look at a schematic and see "oh, that's
just buffering the input and that resistor brings some of its signal
to the output, then it's less daunting than seeing this big expensive
IC and assuming that must be where the problem lies.

Michael

 

[Jamie]

goldenhound wrote:

I've built some kits, and can use a soldering iron, but know almost
nothing about trying to troubleshoot a battery-powered electric guitar
effect. Its an Electro Harmonix Electric Mistress Flanger, and it
consists of about two dozen components. I can find where the power
source connects to the board. I hit the first IC and I don't get a
signal, but am I doing it right? How do I test it?

I built a signal probe. I plug a CD player into the "guitar in", and
touch the probe to the PCB trace (which connects to an audio
amplifier), and the music comes out of the amp if I'm following the
trace correctly. Will that help me find the bad component?

1. I should be able to trace power, no?

2. How do you follow a trace on a PCB when it hits an IC or cap or
resistor? Do you have to disconnect it or ?

Whats a good reference for troubleshooting PCB boards and circuits?
Either on the web or in a book?

TIA mucho,
Rob
As some one else here had provided a schematic (nice of them ), I

took the liberty to examine it.

The device, being nothing more than what I call a reverb unit more or
less, could be a little beyond your current technical skill level to
properly debug the problem with out future possible damage using the
methods you have out lined.
In case you didn't get the link to the schematic provided by another
poster here.
http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/EHmistress_deluxe.jpg

List of things I would check for.

#1.

Pin's 12 and 14 of the SAD 1024A chip need to have a square wave or
near to it pulse train signal to get the serial chip moving is data down
the registers. Not sure with the present equipment you have at hand how
you're going to determine this ? ;/ Maybe if you had a logic probe it
could help using the pulse LED option to determine if its running.

And the rest of the idea's you can ask for if you think #1 isn't
beyond your skill set.

P.S.
If you plan on doing this kind of work, you really should think
about investing in a multimeter with Freqenency,Capacitance, Resistance,
voltage, amps etc...
You don't need a high end unit for what you're doing.

http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

 

[Michael Black]

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008, Jamie wrote:

goldenhound wrote:
I've built some kits, and can use a soldering iron, but know almost
nothing about trying to troubleshoot a battery-powered electric guitar
effect. Its an Electro Harmonix Electric Mistress Flanger, and it
consists of about two dozen components. I can find where the power
source connects to the board. I hit the first IC and I don't get a
signal, but am I doing it right? How do I test it?

I built a signal probe. I plug a CD player into the "guitar in", and
touch the probe to the PCB trace (which connects to an audio
amplifier), and the music comes out of the amp if I'm following the
trace correctly. Will that help me find the bad component?

1. I should be able to trace power, no?

2. How do you follow a trace on a PCB when it hits an IC or cap or
resistor? Do you have to disconnect it or ?

Whats a good reference for troubleshooting PCB boards and circuits?
Either on the web or in a book?

TIA mucho,
Rob

As some one else here had provided a schematic (nice of them ), I took
the liberty to examine it.

That's assuming the schematic the original poster is using is the same.

We don't yet know that, it's possible he has a schematic that is labelled
as the device, when it's not. Or, there may be multiple schematics of
the same commercial device, but which come from different sources
so they are not all quite alike. Ie, if a bunch of people traced out
the circuit, and the put it on the web, there's no guarantee that they
all match since someone might have made an error in the tracing.

The device, being nothing more than what I call a reverb unit more or
less,

Well no. It would be called a reverb if it was that. It's all in how
you combine that delay with the original signal, so the waveform actually
changes. You are talking about a small delay, so the delayed signal
summed with the original will cause a new waveform. Note that the
sound effect requires the delay to be varied continuously.

I'm not sure we've really heard from the original poster about
what isn't happening. I don't recall it being clear from the original
anything beyond "it's not working", which is ambiguous since it could
mean the whole thing is dead, or it could mean he doesn't get the
flanging effect.

The whooshing sound he's expecting to hear won't be there unless
whatever varies the element that controls the delay is functioning.
Like I said, because of that mixing at the output, there should be
an output signal whether the delay is working or not.

SO if there's no sound at the output at all, he either doesn't
have power to the devices, or something is wrong with the input
buffers (assuming the schematic he is following is about what
many websearch hits show).

If he has output sound, but none of the effect he's expecting, then
it's the delay that needs attention, be it whatever the making
the delay (the sad1024 if it's the common schematic), the clocking
of that delay IC, and maybe whatever is varying that clocking of
that delay IC.

Since the delay is so small, he won't be able to tell if it's working
by waiting to hear a sound at the input come out a tad later. He'll
only be able to tell if there's a different sound at the output.

So if there's sound at the output, he ought to disconnect the delay
from that output, put in a temporary switch or something so it's easy
to compare, and then see if switching out the delay causes a change
in the sound. That's not definitive, but if he hears something,
that helps to narrow down where the problem lies. If there's no
change, then likely there's no delay in effect, the reason to be
determined.

Figure out the frequency of the clock to the delay line (once
again assuming it is that schematic in circulation) and if it's in
audio range, one can carefully attach an audio amplifier through
a coupling capacitor to the clock and see if they hear something.

Michael

 

On Sep 14, 12:14 pm, Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008, Jamie wrote:
As some one else here had provided a schematic (nice of them ), I took
the liberty to examine it.

Very nice of them, indeed! Thank you Christofire!!

Unfortunately, the schematic referenced on DIYSTOMPBOXES was the
*Deluxe* EH Electric Mistress. Mine is just the Electric Mistress, 2
- 9v version circa 1979. I bought it brand new, but it sat for a long
time and when I pulled it out to try it, I get no sound out of it.

SO if there's no sound at the output at all, he either doesn't
have power to the devices, or something is wrong with the input
buffers (assuming the schematic he is following is about what
many websearch hits show).

To be more precise, I plug guitar into input, and plug output to amp.
With the footswitch off, I get a clean signal, footswitch on (FX
engaged), I get nothing - no sound at all. Originally, opening up the
FX I found what looked like the positve power wire from the batteries
had broken off from the PCB. I looked at it with a mag glass and
found where I thought it should go and resoldered it. Didn't help.
Maybe its in the wrong place?

That's assuming the schematic the original poster is using is the same.
We don't yet know that, it's possible he has a schematic that is labelled
as the device, when it's not. Or, there may be multiple schematics of
the same commercial device, but which come from different sources
so they are not all quite alike. Ie, if a bunch of people traced out
the circuit, and the put it on the web, there's no guarantee that they
all match since someone might have made an error in the tracing.

Michael

I scoured the net and found a couple of the schematics (that *used* to
be on DIYSTOMPBOXES.com, but have since disappeared), but I guess I
can't attach them to my posts, right? Can I upload them to someone
who is hosting so I can have a real link to show what I mean?

I'd also like to show the front / back of my PCB to show what I've
done, which may not be correct. I don't know how to relate a
schematic to the actual circuit which is probably essential, right?

Maybe these schematics aren't right? I'm not finding the components
on the PCB where I think they should be according to the schematic.

Do I understand (thanks to Jon Slaughter) that this whole problem
might be due to a bad diode, or transistor? I'm going to have to
round up data sheets on the IC's involved and see if I'm getting power
out of them.

I have purchased two $35+ multimeters (probably chinese) that claim to
be able to test transistors and capacitors, but I'll have to remove
them to test. Is this where I should start? Testing each of the
components values? Or is there a way to test them in-circuit? Or
should I pull the diodes and test them first?

Thanks to you all for weighing in on this. Maybe this effect *will*
work again someday!

Rob

 

[goldenhound]

On Sep 14, 12:14 pm, Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008, Jamie wrote:
As some one else here had provided a schematic (nice of them ), I took
the liberty to examine it.

Very nice of them, indeed! Thank you Christofire!!

Unfortunately, the schematic referenced on DIYSTOMPBOXES was the
*Deluxe* EH Electric Mistress. Mine is just the Electric Mistress, 2
- 9v version circa 1979. I bought it brand new, but it sat for a long
time and when I pulled it out to try it, I get no sound out of it.

SO if there's no sound at the output at all, he either doesn't
have power to the devices, or something is wrong with the input
buffers (assuming the schematic he is following is about what
many websearch hits show).

To be more precise, I plug guitar into input, and plug output to amp.
With the footswitch off, I get a clean signal, footswitch on (FX
engaged), I get nothing - no sound at all. Originally, opening up the
FX I found what looked like the positve power wire from the batteries
had broken off from the PCB. I looked at it with a mag glass and
found where I thought it should go and resoldered it. Didn't help.
Maybe its in the wrong place?

That's assuming the schematic the original poster is using is the same.
We don't yet know that, it's possible he has a schematic that is labelled
as the device, when it's not. Or, there may be multiple schematics of
the same commercial device, but which come from different sources
so they are not all quite alike. Ie, if a bunch of people traced out
the circuit, and the put it on the web, there's no guarantee that they
all match since someone might have made an error in the tracing.

Michael

I scoured the net and found a couple of the schematics (that *used* to
be on DIYSTOMPBOXES.com, but have since disappeared), but I guess I
can't attach them to my posts, right? Can I upload them to someone
who is hosting so I can have a real link to show what I mean?

I'd also like to show the front / back of my PCB to show what I've
done, which may not be correct. I don't know how to relate a
schematic to the actual circuit which is probably essential, right?

Maybe these schematics aren't right? I'm not finding the components
on the PCB where I think they should be according to the schematic.

Do I understand (thanks to Jon Slaughter) that this whole problem
might be due to a bad diode, or transistor? I'm going to have to
round up data sheets on the IC's involved and see if I'm getting power
out of them.

I have purchased two $35+ multimeters (probably chinese) that claim to
be able to test transistors and capacitors, but I'll have to remove
them to test. Is this where I should start? Testing each of the
components values? Or is there a way to test them in-circuit? Or
should I pull the diodes and test them first?

Thanks to you all for weighing in on this. Maybe this effect *will*
work again someday!

Rob

 

[JeffM]

goldenhound wrote:

I scoured the net and found a couple of the schematics
(that *used* to be on DIYSTOMPBOXES.com,
but have since disappeared),

If they're on the 'Net, they have addresses. Right?

Just cut & paste the URL into your post.

but I guess I can't attach them to my posts, right?

Right. Thise groups have "binary" or "binaries" in their names.

Can I upload them to someone who is hosting
so I can have a real link to show what I mean?

http://www.google.com/search?q=Image-Hosting&num=100

"No-crap Image Hosting"
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:_87jGvNmQ5cJ:www.cnet.com.au/software/imaging/0,239035345,339278956,00.htm+*-only-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*+bayimg+free+censorship&strip=1

 

[goldenhound]

On Sep 15, 3:42 pm, "christofire" <christof...@btinternet.com> wrote:

"goldenhound" <goldenhound...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:3d0d9f2a-6e80-4f9a-b216-eb2c39fac044@s28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...



On Sep 14, 12:14 pm, Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008, Jamie wrote:
 As some one else here had provided a schematic (nice of them ), I
took
the liberty to examine it.

Very nice of them, indeed!  Thank you Christofire!!

Unfortunately, the schematic referenced on DIYSTOMPBOXES was the
*Deluxe* EH Electric Mistress.  Mine is just the Electric Mistress, 2
- 9v version circa 1979.  I bought it brand new, but it sat for a long
time and when I pulled it out to try it, I get no sound out of it.

SO if there's no sound at the output at all, he either doesn't
have power to the devices, or something is wrong with the input
buffers (assuming the schematic he is following is about what
many websearch hits show).

To be more precise, I plug guitar into input, and plug output to amp.
With the footswitch off, I get a clean signal, footswitch on (FX
engaged), I get nothing - no sound at all.  Originally, opening up the
FX I found what looked like the positve power wire from the batteries
had broken off from the PCB.  I looked at it with a mag glass and
found where I thought it should go and resoldered it.  Didn't help.
Maybe its in the wrong place?

That's assuming the schematic the original poster is using is the same..
We don't yet know that, it's possible he has a schematic that is labelled
as the device, when it's not.  Or, there may be multiple schematics of
the same commercial device, but which come from different sources
so they are not all quite alike.  Ie, if a bunch of people traced out
the circuit, and the put it on the web, there's no guarantee that they
all match since someone might have made an error in the tracing.

    Michael

I scoured the net and found a couple of the schematics (that *used* to
be on DIYSTOMPBOXES.com, but have since disappeared), but I guess I
can't attach them to my posts, right?  Can I upload them to someone
who is hosting so I can have a real link to show what I mean?

I'd also like to show the front / back of my PCB to show what I've
done, which may not be correct.  I don't know how to relate a
schematic to the actual circuit which is probably essential, right?

Maybe these schematics aren't right?  I'm not finding the components
on the PCB where I think they should be according to the schematic.

Do I understand (thanks to Jon Slaughter) that this whole problem
might be due to a bad diode, or transistor?  I'm going to have to
round up data sheets on the IC's involved and see if I'm getting power
out of them.

I have purchased two $35+ multimeters (probably chinese) that claim to
be able to test transistors and capacitors, but I'll have to remove
them to test.  Is this where I should start?  Testing each of the
components values? Or is there a way to test them in-circuit?  Or
should I pull the diodes and test them first?

Thanks to you all for weighing in on this.  Maybe this effect *will*
work again someday!

Rob

You could post them to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic where schematics
and photos are more welcome, with a note relating each post to this
discussion in this NG.  You might pick up a bit of additional interest there
as well.

Have you tried to find the schematic for the model you have using Google and
otherwise 'scouring' the net? ... I'd recommend it if you haven't yet.

Chris

Good idea Chris, about posting the jpgs there. I'll do that. Yes,
I've been using Google for my searching.

 

[goldenhound]

On Sep 15, 5:47 pm, JeffM <jef...@email.com> wrote:

goldenhound wrote:
I scoured the net and found a couple of the schematics
(that *used* to be on DIYSTOMPBOXES.com,
but have since disappeared),

If they're on the 'Net, they have addresses.  Right?
Just cut & paste the URL into your post.

They *used* to be on DIYSTOMPBOXES.com. They have dead links on that
site now. However, I downloaded them sometime ago when the links were
still good.

Thanks much for the urls to post the photos. I checked with my ISP
and they have a picture share area. I might give that a try, but if
it doesn't work, I'll go with one of the sites you provided. I don't
use a newsreader so I can't really upload schematics / photos to
alt.binaries.schematic.electronic, though it would serve the community
better. Once I get setup to do that I will because I'm sure there are
others looking for that schematic.

 

[JeffM]

goldenhound wrote:

Thanks much for the urls to post the photos.

No sweat.

I checked with my ISP and they have a picture share area.
I might give that a try,
but if it doesn't work, I'll go with one of the sites you provided.

My cnet link talks about how *most* hosts are bitches

about what's proper for their sites and what's not.
That article is about the host that's NOT a bitch.
http://bayimg.com
If you START with the most-permissive host, you've got it nailed in
one.
Why use a host that's accepting of *some* content and not of other?

I don't use a newsreader so I can't really upload schematics / photos
to alt.binaries.schematic.electronic,

Actually, if you check postings to these groups over the last several

weeks
as well as the News for Nerds sites,
you'll see that the political posturing the NY Attorney General
pressured[1] NY ISPs into blocking all of the alt.* Big 8 hierarchy
on the pretence of stopping kiddie porn,
so some folks who *are* using a newsreader got screwed recently.
(Many of those chickenshit ISPs also made it a nation-wide policy
and/or dropped ALL of their Usenet access[2].)

though it would serve the community better.

I don't agree. (See my previous point for starters.)

The persistence of stuff on most NNTP binaries servers
is also pretty short.
The Pirate Bay's image hosting service
has everybody beat in that regard as well.

Considering Bayimg and BitTorrent,
I don't see the point of binaries groups any more.
a.b.s.e just seems to be a place
for folks to needlessly cross-post text-only posts
(further reducing the persistence of images there).
..
..
[1] It appears they were eager for an excuse to close Port 119...
[2] ...and take their NNTP servers offline.
The "I" in ISP has less meaning every day;
most of those would be happy to be Port-80-only.

 

[goldenhound]

On Sep 14, 8:14 am, Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:

...what's wrong with the flanger? Knowing what the symptoms are
can help us to point you in the right direction. It's hard to suggest a plan
of action for testing when we dont know what the problem is.

It really would help to see the schematic, especially since all kinds
of things get misnamed.

Which of course reinforces the need for understanding before
troubleshooting.  If you can look at a schematic and see "oh, that's
just buffering the input and that resistor brings some of its signal
to the output, then it's less daunting than seeing this big expensive
IC and assuming that must be where the problem lies.

... if there's no audio at the output, then it's likely something
really simple. Either an early buffer stage, or a stage at the output
that combines the two signal paths.

   Michael

Michael,

Using some sites that JeffM has suggested, I was able to get on one
that was relatively painless. Please feel free to take a look at
Stellan's schematic of the EH Electric Mistress (2x9V battery
version). I'm not sure of the accuracy of the schematic. I still
have to shoot the component side of the flanger and then I'll post
both the solder side and component side (if that's a help).

As you had mentioned, I'm getting no audio on the output side when the
flanger's engaged. If you can tell me what components are involved in
the buffering stage, and the output stage that would be a big help. I
can try troubleshooting those portions.

Stellan's EH Electric Mistress schematic
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/3200/ehelectricmistressschemxu1.gif

Thanks in advance,
Rob

 

[Robert Monsen]

On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:01:22 -0700 (PDT), goldenhound
<goldenhound104@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sep 14, 8:14 am, Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:
...what's wrong with the flanger? Knowing what the symptoms are
can help us to point you in the right direction. It's hard to suggest a plan
of action for testing when we dont know what the problem is.

It really would help to see the schematic, especially since all kinds
of things get misnamed.

Which of course reinforces the need for understanding before
troubleshooting.  If you can look at a schematic and see "oh, that's
just buffering the input and that resistor brings some of its signal
to the output, then it's less daunting than seeing this big expensive
IC and assuming that must be where the problem lies.

... if there's no audio at the output, then it's likely something
really simple. Either an early buffer stage, or a stage at the output
that combines the two signal paths.


   Michael


Michael,

Using some sites that JeffM has suggested, I was able to get on one
that was relatively painless. Please feel free to take a look at
Stellan's schematic of the EH Electric Mistress (2x9V battery
version). I'm not sure of the accuracy of the schematic. I still
have to shoot the component side of the flanger and then I'll post
both the solder side and component side (if that's a help).

As you had mentioned, I'm getting no audio on the output side when the
flanger's engaged. If you can tell me what components are involved in
the buffering stage, and the output stage that would be a big help. I
can try troubleshooting those portions.

Stellan's EH Electric Mistress schematic
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/3200/ehelectricmistressschemxu1.gif

Thanks in advance,
Rob

My guess is that the oscillator isn't oscillating. That will prevent
the sad1024 from working.

Do you have any test equipment at all? An AC voltmeter will tell you
if it is oscillating. Measure the AC voltage between pin 10 and 11. If
it is 0, then you have no oscillation. Comnpare the voltage of the
various output pins of the comparator (LM339) to ground (pin 10 on the
4013).

If there isn't any oscillation on the comparator, then that is the
problem. Check the circuit around the comparator for cold solder
joints, etc.

If there IS oscillation, see if it is on pin 10 and 14 of the sad1024.
If it is, you sad1024 is bad, or not connected to the input for some
reason. See if the signal is getting through to the SAD. The analog
signal enters at pin 15.

Regards,
Bob Monsen

 

[goldenhound]

On Sep 17, 9:13 pm, Robert Monsen <rcmon...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:01:22 -0700 (PDT), goldenhound



goldenhound...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 14, 8:14 am, Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:
...what's wrong with the flanger? Knowing what the symptoms are
can help us to point you in the right direction. It's hard to suggest a plan
of action for testing when we dont know what the problem is.

It really would help to see the schematic, especially since all kinds
of things get misnamed.

Which of course reinforces the need for understanding before
troubleshooting. If you can look at a schematic and see "oh, that's
just buffering the input and that resistor brings some of its signal
to the output, then it's less daunting than seeing this big expensive
IC and assuming that must be where the problem lies.

... if there's no audio at the output, then it's likely something
really simple. Either an early buffer stage, or a stage at the output
that combines the two signal paths.

Michael

Michael,

Using some sites that JeffM has suggested, I was able to get on one
that was relatively painless. Please feel free to take a look at
Stellan's schematic of the EH Electric Mistress (2x9V battery
version). I'm not sure of the accuracy of the schematic. I still
have to shoot the component side of the flanger and then I'll post
both the solder side and component side (if that's a help).

As you had mentioned, I'm getting no audio on the output side when the
flanger's engaged. If you can tell me what components are involved in
the buffering stage, and the output stage that would be a big help. I
can try troubleshooting those portions.

Stellan's EH Electric Mistress schematic
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/3200/ehelectricmistressschemxu1.gif

Thanks in advance,
Rob

My guess is that the oscillator isn't oscillating. That will prevent
the sad1024 from working.

Do you have any test equipment at all? An AC voltmeter will tell you
if it is oscillating. Measure the AC voltage between pin 10 and 11. If
it is 0, then you have no oscillation. Comnpare the voltage of the
various output pins of the comparator (LM339) to ground (pin 10 on the
4013).

If there isn't any oscillation on the comparator, then that is the
problem. Check the circuit around the comparator for cold solder
joints, etc.

If there IS oscillation, see if it is on pin 10 and 14 of the sad1024.
If it is, you sad1024 is bad, or not connected to the input for some
reason. See if the signal is getting through to the SAD. The analog
signal enters at pin 15.

Regards,
Bob Monsen

Thanks Bob - I'll check it out. But as Michael Black mentioned in his
post - if the SAD 1024 was bad, wouldn't I get some kind of audio thru
the output instead of none at all? The signal would be clean, with no
FX but it would be something, right?

 

[JeffM]

Robert Monsen wrote:
[...]Check the circuit around the comparator for cold solder joints, etc.

As these things are called stomp boxes,

*broken stuff* would be my suspicion.

See if the signal is getting through to the SAD.
The analog signal enters at pin 15.

Yup.

goldenhound wrote:

as Michael Black mentioned in his post

He didn't have the print to look at then.

- if the SAD 1024 was bad, wouldn't I get some kind of audio
thru the output instead of none at all?

As Monsen said, it has to get thru the 4558/4558 stages first

to get to the 13k.
If one or both of those opamps are shot, you get zilch.
..
..
....and you sure do blockquote a lot more than is necessary.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

goldenhound wrote:

Thanks Bob - I'll check it out. But as Michael Black mentioned in his
post - if the SAD 1024 was bad, wouldn't I get some kind of audio thru
the output instead of none at all? The signal would be clean, with no
FX but it would be something, right?

If the SAD 1024 is dead nothing will be at the output, other than a
DC voltage. If there is co clock, the signal can ot be transferred from
the input to the output. That part of the circuit is digital. That is
why they chip is a called a 'Bucket Brigade'. The sample is transferred
to the next analog memory cell, then refilled, through all 1024 cells.

--
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aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white
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your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm


There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

 

[Robert Monsen]

On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:02:48 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

goldenhound wrote:

Thanks Bob - I'll check it out. But as Michael Black mentioned in his
post - if the SAD 1024 was bad, wouldn't I get some kind of audio thru
the output instead of none at all? The signal would be clean, with no
FX but it would be something, right?


If the SAD 1024 is dead nothing will be at the output, other than a
DC voltage. If there is co clock, the signal can ot be transferred from
the input to the output. That part of the circuit is digital. That is
why they chip is a called a 'Bucket Brigade'. The sample is transferred
to the next analog memory cell, then refilled, through all 1024 cells.

Actually, he is right. I misread the schematic... the point of a
flanger is to add the 'current' signal to a delayed signal. So, even
if the delay chip is hosed, he should hear the input, without flanging
effect, if the SAD is dead or if the oscillator isn't oscillating.

So, it is probably the input stage that is AFU. The OP should check
the input to the SAD, and work backwards towards the input to the box
to see where the signal is failing.

The OP could also check whether there is signal on the output of the
opamp (the 4558 in the schematic). That is pin 1 or 7 of the 4558 if
you are using one of those. The power pins are 4 and 8. 4 should be at
ground, and 8 should be at Vcc, whatever that is, probably 9V.

Regards,
Bob Monsen

 

[Michael Black]

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008, new.kaitlin@gmail.com wrote:

On Sep 14, 12:14 pm, Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:
On Sun, 14 Sep 2008, Jamie wrote:
As some one else here had provided a schematic (nice of them ), I took
the liberty to examine it.

Very nice of them, indeed! Thank you Christofire!!

Unfortunately, the schematic referenced on DIYSTOMPBOXES was the
*Deluxe* EH Electric Mistress. Mine is just the Electric Mistress, 2
- 9v version circa 1979. I bought it brand new, but it sat for a long
time and when I pulled it out to try it, I get no sound out of it.


First, I misinterpreted the original post, especially since this

is the basics newsgroup. I read it as meaning you'd found a schematic
and built it, which throws in wiring errors and untested parts into
the mix.

Since it's actually a commercial unit, and was working but suddenly
not, it's actually easier.

To be more precise, I plug guitar into input, and plug output to amp.
With the footswitch off, I get a clean signal, footswitch on (FX
engaged), I get nothing - no sound at all. Originally, opening up the
FX I found what looked like the positve power wire from the batteries
had broken off from the PCB. I looked at it with a mag glass and
found where I thought it should go and resoldered it. Didn't help.
Maybe its in the wrong place?

But then the chances are good that you didn't connect the wire to

the right place. For it to be the right place and yet it still
not working seems too odd a coincident.

And this is where I stalled. Any of us could see immediately upon
looking at the unit whether it was reconnected in the right place or
not, could easily check that voltage is reaching the ICs, and then
quickly isolate what part of the circuit isn't working.

Translating that into steps that you can follow becomes harder.
The schematic helps, since then we can see what's there. But I'm
also concerned that even if you can point to the schematic you found,
that there is still a small variable that the schematic may not
be correct; either because someone drew the schematic from
the circuit board and introduced error(s), or because there
were small variations through the production of the unit that may
not match your unit.

The schematic that seems to be all over the place shows the input
signal going through two stages of op-amps. If the unit gets
no power, those op-amps won't work, and you'll hear nothing. Since
you hear nothing at all, either one of those stages have gone
bad, or they aren't getting power. It's far easier to expect
them to not have power, especially since you had a broken wire,
than to look for something more complicated.

You get a voltmeter, measure the pin on the op-amp where power
goes, and see if it's getting voltage. Easy, except maybe
the schematic I found doesn't match your unit and then we have
to describe how to find pin 1 so you can count pins properly,
and maybe describe how to find that IC.

If there's no voltage there, then that reinforces the notion
that you reconnected the wire to the wrong place. Then it
requires finding the exact schematic, and then seeing where one
should connect the wire.

And then there may be worry that when you reconnected it to
the wrong place, it's done damage. ONe hopes not, but that's
always there.

Michael

 

[goldenhound]

Hi Bob,

See if the signal is getting through to the SAD.
The analog signal enters at pin 15.

This is a dumb question but looking at the data sheet and the
schematic for the SAD 1024, does pin 2 (IN A) feed one set of 512
buckets, and pin 15 (IN B) feed the other set? If so, should I get
signal on either of those two pins?

So, it is probably the input stage that is AFU. The OP should check
the input to the SAD, and work backwards towards the input to the box
to see where the signal is failing.

AFU=I think I know what that means?
OP=?

The OP could also check whether there is signal on the output of the
opamp (the 4558 in the schematic).

When you say signal, does that imply using an oscilliscope (which I
don't have), or are you talking
about actually "hearing" a guitar through that pin with some device
(like an audio probe)?

That is pin 1 or 7 of the 4558 if
you are using one of those. The power pins are 4 and 8. 4 should be at
ground, and 8 should be at Vcc, whatever that is, probably 9V.

Yes. The 4558 is on the board. I'll check those as well - I'm hoping
tonight. So I should have something to report tomorrow.

JeffM said:

As Monsen said, it has to get thru the 4558/4558 stages first
to get to the 13k.
If one or both of those opamps are shot, you get zilch.

OK - I see that. The leg with the 13k ohm resistor is the bypass,
correct? That makes sense now.
..
..
"...and you sure do blockquote a lot more than is necessary. "

Probably a carryover from my job. I have a habit of trying to be as
verbose as possible.

Thanks again gentlemen for mapping my next moves.
Rob

 

[goldenhound]

.. Any of us could see immediately upon
looking at the unit whether it was reconnected in the right place or
not,

I hope to be able to post the front / back of the PCB tonight:

The schematic that seems to be all over the place shows the input
signal going through two stages of op-amps.  If the unit gets

Here's what I have which I believe is representative - Feel free to
take a look:

Stellan's EH Electric Mistress schematic
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/3200/ehelectricmistressschemxu1.gif

 

[goldenhound]

On Sep 18, 1:49 pm, goldenhound <goldenhound...@gmail.com> wrote:

.. Any of us could see immediately upon
looking at the unit whether it was reconnected in the right place or
not,

I hope to be able to post the front / back of the PCB tonight:

The schematic that seems to be all over the place shows the input
signal going through two stages of op-amps. If the unit gets

Here's what I have which I believe is representative - Feel free to
take a look:

Stellan's EH Electric Mistress schematichttp://img233.imageshack.us/img233/3200/ehelectricmistressschemxu1.gif

http://bayimg.com/CAKkKaaBm (solderside of EH
Electric Mistress 1979)
http://bayimg.com/gakkmaabM (inverted component
side of EH Electric Mistress 1979)

I've inverted the component side so that it matches the solder side.
IOW, think of the component side as a transparency that's been turned
around so that the traces on one side of the board, match the
component locations when they're compared. Thought it might help.
YMMV. I'm sure I could've done something even better in Photoshop,
like overlaying the images and making one transparent, etc. But, you
get what you get.

Does this help?