Air Compressor Problem - Motor Stalls

[Jeffrey D Angus]

hatespam@invalid.invalid (Sparks Fergusson) wrote:

...
The voltage to the motor is never interrupted during the stop/start
cycle. Above a certain psi (about 95), the motor starts bogging down
and eventually stops. This occurs even if I bypass the pressure switch
and attach the cord directly to the motor leads. Then, after the
unloader vents the pressure, the motor will restart.

Is it an oil-less compresser? They are VERY sensitive to
both ends being lined up correctly. The through bolts loosen
under vibration and the ends shift slightly. Re-align them
and that should solve the problem.

Jeff


--
“Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity.”
Frank Leahy, Head coach, Notre Dame 1941-1954

http://www.stay-connect.com

 

On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 05:13:31 GMT, hatespam@invalid.invalid (Sparks
Fergusson) wrote:

I'm having a problem with my 20 gallon, single stage electric air
compressor. It's acting like the motor is underpowered - it pumps up
to about 95 psi ok, but then the motor stalls. The unloader bleeds the
pressure off, the motor restarts, runs for a couple of seconds, and
then stops again...repeat...repeat...

It worked fine for years (The pressure switch would shut it down at
about 120 psi) but over the past few months, it's gotten worse and
worse, and now will only make about 90-95 psi before the motor stalls.

I cleaned and lubricated the compressor itself, and it spins freely
and doesn't appear to be binding or otherwise have excessive friction.
The check valve/unloader is working and the piping is all open and
clear.

It seems like the electric motor (1/3 hp) just no longer has the oomph
it used to. It starts up fine, no humming, no smoking, no bad smells,
no clunks. It just doesn't seem to have enough running torque to
handle the load like it did before.

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks!
After reading all the posts, several things stand out. The most

significant: There is no excessive current draw when the motor stalls.
By all the laws of physics, that is flat out impossible. There are
two explanations (well, three, but I'm assuming you aren't making this
up). The first is slippage at the belt, motor pulley, or rotor.
Given the knowledge you have exhibited, I say that can't be the
problem; it's pretty hard to miss the fact that the motor is spinning
but the belt is slipping.

That leads to only one conclusion: The actual voltage to the windings
is dropping. Possible causes are a bad thernal overload protector,
bad run capacitor (some motors hide the starting capacitor inside,
while the run capacitor is in a cupola on the side), or a corroded
terminal so only one of the paired windings is used.

All of these possible causes result in a lot of heat generated at
one small point EXCEPT the single winding and the bad run capacitor.
The single winding explanation is unlikely because it would not
deteriorate gradually. That leaves the bad run capacitor.

PlainBill

 

[David]

<PlainBill47@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vrs4q59ejbb3o71mmtejt53subrukq6vg1@4ax.com...

On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 05:13:31 GMT, hatespam@invalid.invalid
(Sparks
Fergusson) wrote:
After reading all the posts, several things stand out.
The most
significant: There is no excessive current draw when the
motor stalls.
By all the laws of physics, that is flat out impossible.
There are
two explanations (well, three, but I'm assuming you aren't
making this
up). The first is slippage at the belt, motor pulley, or
rotor.
Given the knowledge you have exhibited, I say that can't
be the
problem; it's pretty hard to miss the fact that the motor
is spinning
but the belt is slipping.

That leads to only one conclusion: The actual voltage to
the windings
is dropping. Possible causes are a bad thernal overload
protector,
bad run capacitor (some motors hide the starting capacitor
inside,
while the run capacitor is in a cupola on the side), or a
corroded
terminal so only one of the paired windings is used.

All of these possible causes result in a lot of heat
generated at
one small point EXCEPT the single winding and the bad run
capacitor.
The single winding explanation is unlikely because it
would not
deteriorate gradually. That leaves the bad run capacitor.

PlainBill

There is one more possible cause: Some or all of the
windings on the rotor that are supposed to be shorted are
open. An induction motor works because windings on the rotor
are shorted to induce the field needed to turn the rotor.

David

 

[Baron]

David Inscribed thus:

PlainBill47@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vrs4q59ejbb3o71mmtejt53subrukq6vg1@4ax.com...
On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 05:13:31 GMT, hatespam@invalid.invalid
(Sparks
Fergusson) wrote:
After reading all the posts, several things stand out.
The most
significant: There is no excessive current draw when the
motor stalls.
By all the laws of physics, that is flat out impossible.
There are
two explanations (well, three, but I'm assuming you aren't
making this
up). The first is slippage at the belt, motor pulley, or
rotor.
Given the knowledge you have exhibited, I say that can't
be the
problem; it's pretty hard to miss the fact that the motor
is spinning
but the belt is slipping.

That leads to only one conclusion: The actual voltage to
the windings
is dropping. Possible causes are a bad thernal overload
protector,
bad run capacitor (some motors hide the starting capacitor
inside,
while the run capacitor is in a cupola on the side), or a
corroded
terminal so only one of the paired windings is used.

All of these possible causes result in a lot of heat
generated at
one small point EXCEPT the single winding and the bad run
capacitor.
The single winding explanation is unlikely because it
would not
deteriorate gradually. That leaves the bad run capacitor.

PlainBill

There is one more possible cause: Some or all of the
windings on the rotor that are supposed to be shorted are
open. An induction motor works because windings on the rotor
are shorted to induce the field needed to turn the rotor.

David

Thats a possibility, I've seen open rotor bars on induction motors.
Sometimes they arc at the break and leave burn marks.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

 

On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 15:58:38 -0500, "David" <someone@somewhere.com>
wrote:

PlainBill47@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vrs4q59ejbb3o71mmtejt53subrukq6vg1@4ax.com...
On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 05:13:31 GMT, hatespam@invalid.invalid
(Sparks
Fergusson) wrote:
After reading all the posts, several things stand out.
The most
significant: There is no excessive current draw when the
motor stalls.
By all the laws of physics, that is flat out impossible.
There are
two explanations (well, three, but I'm assuming you aren't
making this
up). The first is slippage at the belt, motor pulley, or
rotor.
Given the knowledge you have exhibited, I say that can't
be the
problem; it's pretty hard to miss the fact that the motor
is spinning
but the belt is slipping.

That leads to only one conclusion: The actual voltage to
the windings
is dropping. Possible causes are a bad thernal overload
protector,
bad run capacitor (some motors hide the starting capacitor
inside,
while the run capacitor is in a cupola on the side), or a
corroded
terminal so only one of the paired windings is used.

All of these possible causes result in a lot of heat
generated at
one small point EXCEPT the single winding and the bad run
capacitor.
The single winding explanation is unlikely because it
would not
deteriorate gradually. That leaves the bad run capacitor.

PlainBill

There is one more possible cause: Some or all of the
windings on the rotor that are supposed to be shorted are
open. An induction motor works because windings on the rotor
are shorted to induce the field needed to turn the rotor.

David

I've never seen that, but it is definitely a possibility and would

also explain the symtoms.

PlainBill

 

[David]

<PlainBill47@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:q6e7q5daqoilfbm0c7aarr47lcv3stka6k@4ax.com...

On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 15:58:38 -0500, "David"
someone@somewhere.com
wrote:



PlainBill47@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vrs4q59ejbb3o71mmtejt53subrukq6vg1@4ax.com...
On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 05:13:31 GMT,
hatespam@invalid.invalid
(Sparks
Fergusson) wrote:
After reading all the posts, several things stand out.
The most
significant: There is no excessive current draw when the
motor stalls.
By all the laws of physics, that is flat out impossible.
There are
two explanations (well, three, but I'm assuming you
aren't
making this
up). The first is slippage at the belt, motor pulley,
or
rotor.
Given the knowledge you have exhibited, I say that can't
be the
problem; it's pretty hard to miss the fact that the
motor
is spinning
but the belt is slipping.

That leads to only one conclusion: The actual voltage
to
the windings
is dropping. Possible causes are a bad thernal overload
protector,
bad run capacitor (some motors hide the starting
capacitor
inside,
while the run capacitor is in a cupola on the side), or
a
corroded
terminal so only one of the paired windings is used.

All of these possible causes result in a lot of heat
generated at
one small point EXCEPT the single winding and the bad
run
capacitor.
The single winding explanation is unlikely because it
would not
deteriorate gradually. That leaves the bad run
capacitor.

PlainBill

There is one more possible cause: Some or all of the
windings on the rotor that are supposed to be shorted are
open. An induction motor works because windings on the
rotor
are shorted to induce the field needed to turn the rotor.

David

I've never seen that, but it is definitely a possibility
and would
also explain the symtoms.

PlainBill

PlainBill:
I once saw a fractional HP induction motor on a fan had
problems starting in a certain position. After moving the
rotor a bit, it would run. There was one open winding on the
rotor. The open was visible on the side of the rotor and
applying a significant amount of solder cured the problem.
There can be a lot of current in these shorted turns on a
loaded motor.

David

 

[GregS]

In article <q6e7q5daqoilfbm0c7aarr47lcv3stka6k@4ax.com>, PlainBill47@yahoo.com wrote:

On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 15:58:38 -0500, "David" <someone@somewhere.com
wrote:



PlainBill47@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vrs4q59ejbb3o71mmtejt53subrukq6vg1@4ax.com...
On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 05:13:31 GMT, hatespam@invalid.invalid
(Sparks
Fergusson) wrote:
After reading all the posts, several things stand out.
The most
significant: There is no excessive current draw when the
motor stalls.
By all the laws of physics, that is flat out impossible.
There are
two explanations (well, three, but I'm assuming you aren't
making this
up). The first is slippage at the belt, motor pulley, or
rotor.
Given the knowledge you have exhibited, I say that can't
be the
problem; it's pretty hard to miss the fact that the motor
is spinning
but the belt is slipping.

That leads to only one conclusion: The actual voltage to
the windings
is dropping. Possible causes are a bad thernal overload
protector,
bad run capacitor (some motors hide the starting capacitor
inside,
while the run capacitor is in a cupola on the side), or a
corroded
terminal so only one of the paired windings is used.

All of these possible causes result in a lot of heat
generated at
one small point EXCEPT the single winding and the bad run
capacitor.
The single winding explanation is unlikely because it
would not
deteriorate gradually. That leaves the bad run capacitor.

PlainBill

There is one more possible cause: Some or all of the
windings on the rotor that are supposed to be shorted are
open. An induction motor works because windings on the rotor
are shorted to induce the field needed to turn the rotor.

David

I've never seen that, but it is definitely a possibility and would
also explain the symtoms.

PlainBill

With all the talk, I would have liked to hear the final answer to
the story. Is the compressor working yet. Its
been a long time.

greg

 

[Sparks Fergusson]

zekfrivo@zekfrivolous.com (GregS) wrote:

With all the talk, I would have liked to hear the final answer to
the story. Is the compressor working yet. Its
been a long time.

Um...can I phone a friend?

Ok, here's the status. I have disassembled the motor. I have found the
following:

* The windings appear to all be in good shape. I don't see anything
obviously open or burned.

* The bearing surfaces are all in good shape.

* The contacts of the centrifugal switch are badly carbonized. I will
clean those up before reassembly.

* I have ordered a replacement start capacitor. I don't have a
capacitor tester, but for $5, why not just replace it, eh?

* The thermal overload tests OK (dead short,) but I can't easily test
it under load.

* The rotor showed no evidence of hitting the stator and appeared
undamaged.

I will clean all the connections before reassembly, although all
looked fairly good already. I'll also measure to make sure I have good
continuity through all the windings. Hopefully, that should get things
going again. Thanks to everyone for their help and suggestions.

I'll post another update when I get it all back together.

Thanks!

 

[PeterD]

On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 04:34:46 GMT, hatespam@invalid.invalid (Sparks
Fergusson) wrote:

zekfrivo@zekfrivolous.com (GregS) wrote:

With all the talk, I would have liked to hear the final answer to
the story. Is the compressor working yet. Its
been a long time.

Um...can I phone a friend?

Ok, here's the status. I have disassembled the motor. I have found the
following:

* The windings appear to all be in good shape. I don't see anything
obviously open or burned.

* The bearing surfaces are all in good shape.

* The contacts of the centrifugal switch are badly carbonized. I will
clean those up before reassembly.

* I have ordered a replacement start capacitor. I don't have a
capacitor tester, but for $5, why not just replace it, eh?

* The thermal overload tests OK (dead short,) but I can't easily test
it under load.

* The rotor showed no evidence of hitting the stator and appeared
undamaged.

I will clean all the connections before reassembly, although all
looked fairly good already. I'll also measure to make sure I have good
continuity through all the windings. Hopefully, that should get things
going again. Thanks to everyone for their help and suggestions.

I'll post another update when I get it all back together.

Thanks!

Sounds good, please give more updates as you go along. Maybe it was
the start switch contacts that you mention.

 

[Sparks Fergusson]

"Wild_Bill" <wb_wildbill@XSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:

The main problem is that the motor is being overloaded. As mentioned
already, induction motors don't get tired or exhibit lower power output with
age.

It's taken longer than I hoped, but I have finally put my air
compressor motor back together and it's working again!

To review, over time, the compressor had developed a problem of the
motor stalling before it reached full pressure.

Bearing in mind everyone's suggestions, I took the motor apart and
found that the bearings looked good, there was no sign of rotor/stator
contact, and the internal wiring and connections looked OK. The only
obvious problem was somewhat burned contacts on the centrifugal
switch.

Unfortunately, as I was taking it apart, I broke the voltage selector
switch, and that's what's taken me so long to get around to fixing.

Finally, with some JB weld and spare circuit board material, I managed
to glue the switch pieces back together.

I then cleaned and reseated all the internal connectors. I measured
all the windings for continuity or shorts (they looked good.) I
installed a new start cap, lubricated, and reassembled the motor.

It ran, but wouldn't start. After disassembling it again, and some
careful bending of the centrifugal switch, it was starting and running
smoothly.

Then, the moment of truth, I put the pulley and belt back on and fired
it up. As I carefully watched the pressure gauge, I kept adjusting the
regulator upwards. I ran it up to 140psi, and there was no sign of
stalling or even slowing down! Success!

I then adjusted the regulator back down to 120psi and buttoned
everything back up.

So, thanks to one and all for your help and suggestions. I'm back in
business!

 

[William Sommerwerck]

It ran, but wouldn't start.

Am I missing something?

 

[Jeffrey D Angus]

William Sommerwerck wrote:

It ran, but wouldn't start.

Am I missing something?

Yeah, you can yank the pulley to get the motor turning, then
it runs. But it won't start turning on it's own.

Jeff

--
“Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity.”
Frank Leahy, Head coach, Notre Dame 1941-1954

http://www.stay-connect.com

 

On Wednesday, March 3, 2010 at 9:13:31 PM UTC-8, Sparks Fergusson wrote:

I'm having a problem with my 20 gallon, single stage electric air
compressor. It's acting like the motor is underpowered - it pumps up
to about 95 psi ok, but then the motor stalls. The unloader bleeds the
pressure off, the motor restarts, runs for a couple of seconds, and
then stops again...repeat...repeat...

It worked fine for years (The pressure switch would shut it down at
about 120 psi) but over the past few months, it's gotten worse and
worse, and now will only make about 90-95 psi before the motor stalls.

I cleaned and lubricated the compressor itself, and it spins freely
and doesn't appear to be binding or otherwise have excessive friction.
The check valve/unloader is working and the piping is all open and
clear.

It seems like the electric motor (1/3 hp) just no longer has the oomph
it used to. It starts up fine, no humming, no smoking, no bad smells,
no clunks. It just doesn't seem to have enough running torque to
handle the load like it did before.

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks!

Just replaced a "run capacitor on my 5 H.P. Champion compressor that was having a similar issue...All is well now.

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

On Wednesday, October 21, 2015 at 4:52:53 PM UTC-4, 911r...@gmail.com wrote:

> Just replaced a "run capacitor on my 5 H.P. Champion compressor that was having a similar issue...All is well now.

Yes!

This will very most likely be the problem. The motor is an AC induction motor, no brushes. But the run capacitor is critical to proper torque. And, if you are already in there and the happens to be a start-cap, do that one too.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA