adding Ethernet

[Terry Given]

ChrisGibboGibson wrote:

I just did some googling but couldn't find it.....

There used to be a website taking the piss out of microshite and comparing it
to the real world......

How we just wouldn't accept a car that, occasionally, for no apparent reason,
wouldn't steer to the left, or the gear stick got "greyed out" and simply
couldn't be used.

Or the whole dashboard went blue, the steering wheel disappeared and the car
slowed to a halt and wouldn't work again until it was stopped, then we waited
15 minutes for it to perform a "scanengine" and told us not to simply stop the
engine running again but to ensure the system was shut down properly.

Yet for some reason people just put up with it on computers. I know if any
other tool did that we'd just throw it away.

Oh yeah, why is it the only time I see "this program has performed an illegal
operation, if the problem persists, contact the program vendor" is when
microshite software causes the crash?

Gibbo

Gidday Gibbo,

I thought you knew the reason: because software is licensed not sold.
And the terms of the license specifically state that M$ (or anyone else)
neither knows nor cares if it works at all, let alone does what they
say. You dont buy the software, you buy permission to use it.....

Because it is not sold per se, the various forms of consumer protection
legislation do not come into play. Otherwise a large chunk of software
vendors would find themselves out of business overnight. Protel 98 would
have killed protel completely, and mathcad would have died a similar,
well-deserved death. The list is endless.....

Cheers
Tezza

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 11:35:45 +1300, Terry Given <my_name@ieee.org>
wrote:

[snip]

They have done so - didnt Airbus have this problem a few years back.

[snip]

No. Airbus only sells aircraft with a rudder that can't be used in
evasive maneuvers... otherwise the tail falls off...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62636-2004Oct25.html

http://www.airdisaster.com/news/1004/12/news.shtml

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Rich The Philosophizer]

On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 11:35:45 +1300, Terry Given wrote:

ChrisGibboGibson wrote:

How does this apply to a plane falling out of the sky and killing everyone on
board due to duff software?

They have done so - didnt Airbus have this problem a few years back.

Most EULAs have pages of shit about safety critical systems, for exactly
that reason. Same reason component datasheets all say they cant be used
in life support systems etc.

And its probably the responsibility of those who assembled the plane to
ensure the s/w they chose actually works.

There is one possible recourse - The shop where I'm sitting these days
does stuff for aerospace, and the paper trail outweighs the airplane,
if it's done right. Somebody has to sign for every single thing that
goes in the air, somewhere along the line. With metal parts it's
traceable almost back to a specific truckload of ore. So, they just
have as much fanfare and foofaraw as they need to get the heat off,
and long story short, they nail some guy who signed off on something.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[ChrisGibboGibson]

Rich Grise wrote:

[snip]

You need more beer then I'm sure you'll have plenty.

Gibbo

 

[Boris Mohar]

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 11:55:59 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote:

I just added Ethernet capability to an instrument, using a Lantronix
Xport thing (looks like a pcb-mount RJ45 connector, but has a cpu and
everything inside... amazing!) to convert ethernet to 57 Kbaud serial,
to talk binary data to my embedded uP. I'm using a program hacked in
PowerBasic (32-bit Console Compiler version) to talk to it from my PC
end. The whole thing was easy... not a single kluge, and things came
up directly.

IEEE-488 must be mostly dead by now.

John

Try this. I had no personal experience with the product
http://audiorail.home.comcast.net/

There is also something new from Gibson (guitar) of all places.
http://www.elecdesign.com/Articles/ArticleID/8909/8909.html

Here are the specs.
www.gibsonmagic.com/magic3_0c.pdf




Regards,

Boris Mohar

Got Knock? - see:
Viatrack Printed Circuit Designs http://www3.sympatico.ca/borism/

 

[David Harmon]

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 20:57:20 -0800 in sci.electronics.design, "Paul
Hovnanian P.E." <Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote,

Didn't BMW have some problems with their in-dash Windows systems?

Crashed Computer Traps Thai Politician, 14 May 2003
http://aardvark.co.nz/daily/2003/n051301.shtml

Thailand's Finance Minister had to be rescued from inside his BMW
limousine after the onboard computer crashed. Door locks and power
windows were inoperative, leaving the Minister and his driver
trapped. They got a nearby guard to free them by smashing a window.

BMW's more up-market 7-series range uses a computer system called
i-drive which has Microsoft's WindowsCE at its core.
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2002/Mar02/03-04BMWpr.asp

 

[ChrisGibboGibson]

Terry Given wrote:

[huge snip]

Gibbo wrote:

How does this apply to a plane falling out of the sky and killing everyone
on
board due to duff software?

They have done so - didnt Airbus have this problem a few years back.

Have a look round conspiracy theory sites. Some amazing stories emerge on that
one.

Most EULAs have pages of shit about safety critical systems, for exactly
that reason. Same reason component datasheets all say they cant be used
in life support systems etc.

So if an engineer uses one he's at fault?

If everone followed those datasheets there wouldn't be *any* hardware available
for planes or any other safety critical applications.

And its probably the responsibility of those who assembled the plane to
ensure the s/w they chose actually works.

And not the bloke who wrote it?

Is the same "get out" in play?

Would it also apply to a widget with a uC?

IME most "widgets" have software that actually works......

We would also develop the
most-commonly-used-by-customers features LAST for the same reason.

My trick at my last employment post (admittedly a long time ago) was to put in
the user interface LAST

Everything else went in first. If, at the last minute, we found a problem with
the actual S/W we would simply delete the user interface. For the same reasons
as you state above.

Could someone sell shite, blame it on the software and say "well I never
said
it would work"


Not in NZ, if he was selling anything other than software.

How long before this loophole is corrected?

It seems that a microwave, washing machine, gearbox, horse saddle, screwdriver
or diving mask *has* to work. But S/W can simply fail to do so, and if you
don't like it, hard luck, you already opened the wrapper.

The fact that
software forms a part of the thing is irrelevant if the thing dont go.

Unless it's a PC in which case you only bought the machine. The fact that the
S/W don't work is irrelevant. Hard luck.

I think there's a lot to be said for bootlegging S/W....

As most of it doesn't work anyway, what has been stolen? Faulty good at best
that has no true commercial value anyway.

Maybe that's why microshite have 3 genuine copies of windows in the UK and 24
million bootlegs (ok I made that bit up).

I actually buy S/W if it does what it says on the can. But I sure as hell won't
buy it until I've tried a bootleg to make sure.

Gibbo

 

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

ChrisGibboGibson wrote:

Terry Given wrote:

ChrisGibboGibson wrote:

I just did some googling but couldn't find it.....

There used to be a website taking the piss out of microshite and comparing
it
to the real world......

How we just wouldn't accept a car that, occasionally, for no apparent
reason,
wouldn't steer to the left, or the gear stick got "greyed out" and simply
couldn't be used.

Or the whole dashboard went blue, the steering wheel disappeared and the
car
slowed to a halt and wouldn't work again until it was stopped, then we
waited
15 minutes for it to perform a "scanengine" and told us not to simply stop
the
engine running again but to ensure the system was shut down properly.

Yet for some reason people just put up with it on computers. I know if any
other tool did that we'd just throw it away.

Oh yeah, why is it the only time I see "this program has performed an
illegal
operation, if the problem persists, contact the program vendor" is when
microshite software causes the crash?

Gibbo

Gidday Gibbo,

I thought you knew the reason: because software is licensed not sold.
And the terms of the license specifically state that M$ (or anyone else)
neither knows nor cares if it works at all,

I like the "nor cares" bit

let alone does what they
say. You dont buy the software, you buy permission to use it.....

Because it is not sold per se, the various forms of consumer protection
legislation do not come into play. Otherwise a large chunk of software
vendors would find themselves out of business overnight. Protel 98 would
have killed protel completely, and mathcad would have died a similar,
well-deserved death. The list is endless.....


How does this apply to a plane falling out of the sky and killing everyone on
board due to duff software?

Software is only a part of a piece of hardware. The proper operation of
the hardware (and system) needs to be certified in combination. So, the
software alone is never to blame.

Is the same "get out" in play?

Would it also apply to a widget with a uC?

If its failure can kill people, yes.

Could someone sell shite, blame it on the software and say "well I never said
it would work"

If you are producing a product that needs to meet some safety
requirements, then your job as an engineer is to select components and
produce a design that meets these requirements. If you feel safe doing
so with a part whose manufacturer claims (but refuses to support) its
suitability for a certain task, that's up to you.


--
Paul Hovnanian mailtoaul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Think honk if you're a telepath.