adding Ethernet

J

John Larkin

Guest
I just added Ethernet capability to an instrument, using a Lantronix
Xport thing (looks like a pcb-mount RJ45 connector, but has a cpu and
everything inside... amazing!) to convert ethernet to 57 Kbaud serial,
to talk binary data to my embedded uP. I'm using a program hacked in
PowerBasic (32-bit Console Compiler version) to talk to it from my PC
end. The whole thing was easy... not a single kluge, and things came
up directly.

IEEE-488 must be mostly dead by now.

John
 
"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> schreef in
bericht news:6s1lo09dct0pqdur8tpdnl6p954lp78rk3@4ax.com...
I just added Ethernet capability to an instrument, using a Lantronix
Xport thing (looks like a pcb-mount RJ45 connector, but has a cpu and
everything inside... amazing!) to convert ethernet to 57 Kbaud serial,
to talk binary data to my embedded uP. I'm using a program hacked in
PowerBasic (32-bit Console Compiler version) to talk to it from my PC
end. The whole thing was easy... not a single kluge, and things came
up directly.

IEEE-488 must be mostly dead by now.
Click to expand...
There's a lot of nice stuff in this area. I also like the small
web-server boards. Like the stuff found on www.siteplayer.com, just
to mention one of the many examples.

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'x' and 'invalid' when replying by email)
 
"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote in
message news:6s1lo09dct0pqdur8tpdnl6p954lp78rk3@4ax.com...
I just added Ethernet capability to an instrument, using a Lantronix
Xport thing (looks like a pcb-mount RJ45 connector, but has a cpu and
everything inside... amazing!) to convert ethernet to 57 Kbaud serial,
to talk binary data to my embedded uP.
Click to expand...
I took a look -- that's one slick product! How much do they cost?

IEEE-488 must be mostly dead by now.
Click to expand...
Nah, now you go out and buy an Ethernet --> IEEE-488 converter! (These do
exist. Really. Typically not cheap.)

---Joel
 
"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote in
message news:6s1lo09dct0pqdur8tpdnl6p954lp78rk3@4ax.com...
I just added Ethernet capability to an instrument, using a Lantronix
Xport thing (looks like a pcb-mount RJ45 connector, but has a cpu and
everything inside... amazing!) to convert ethernet to 57 Kbaud serial,
to talk binary data to my embedded uP. I'm using a program hacked in
PowerBasic (32-bit Console Compiler version) to talk to it from my PC
end. The whole thing was easy... not a single kluge, and things came
up directly.

IEEE-488 must be mostly dead by now.

John

If you're still using Labview then 488 is pretty easy, but even that can
Click to expand...
utilise TCP/IP (IIRC). We have a stack of gear here that's centrally
controlled by 488, but it's a legacy system. But yeah, for your own
programs, you just can't beat those little boards. I've just been using
VisualBasic 6 to talk to various types with varied amounts of I/O on them,
or to strings of gear talking on RS-485 and RS-232, then letting one of the
other guys write VC++ and/or Java code later if he feels like it - the VB
works a treat anyway, no matter what the pedants say. The only problem is
that there's so many of those little CPU boards to choose from that it hurts
the brain. :)

Ken
 
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 11:55:59 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

I just added Ethernet capability to an instrument, using a Lantronix
Xport thing (looks like a pcb-mount RJ45 connector, but has a cpu and
everything inside... amazing!) to convert ethernet to 57 Kbaud serial,
to talk binary data to my embedded uP. I'm using a program hacked in
PowerBasic (32-bit Console Compiler version) to talk to it from my PC
end. The whole thing was easy... not a single kluge, and things came
up directly.

IEEE-488 must be mostly dead by now.

I would've thought USB 2 would be the way to go up to it's speed
Click to expand...
limit, but (I haven't looked into doing it yet) I'm guessing those
little servers in a LAN jack would be easier to get up and running.

Was that a good guess?


--
Best Regards,
Mike
 
On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:26:35 +1300, "Ken Taylor" <ken123@xtra.co.nz>
wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote in
message news:6s1lo09dct0pqdur8tpdnl6p954lp78rk3@4ax.com...
I just added Ethernet capability to an instrument, using a Lantronix
Xport thing (looks like a pcb-mount RJ45 connector, but has a cpu and
everything inside... amazing!) to convert ethernet to 57 Kbaud serial,
to talk binary data to my embedded uP. I'm using a program hacked in
PowerBasic (32-bit Console Compiler version) to talk to it from my PC
end. The whole thing was easy... not a single kluge, and things came
up directly.

IEEE-488 must be mostly dead by now.

John

If you're still using Labview then 488 is pretty easy, but even that can
utilise TCP/IP (IIRC).
Click to expand...
Right. LabView talks to it nicely.

John
 
On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:21:58 -0800, "Joel Kolstad"
<JKolstad71HatesSpam@Yahoo.Com> wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote in
message news:6s1lo09dct0pqdur8tpdnl6p954lp78rk3@4ax.com...
I just added Ethernet capability to an instrument, using a Lantronix
Xport thing (looks like a pcb-mount RJ45 connector, but has a cpu and
everything inside... amazing!) to convert ethernet to 57 Kbaud serial,
to talk binary data to my embedded uP.

I took a look -- that's one slick product! How much do they cost?
Click to expand...
Small quantity, about $50. I think Mouser or Digikey stock them now.

John
 
John Larkin wrote:
I just added Ethernet capability to an instrument, using a Lantronix
Xport thing (looks like a pcb-mount RJ45 connector, but has a cpu and
everything inside... amazing!) to convert ethernet to 57 Kbaud serial,
to talk binary data to my embedded uP. I'm using a program hacked in
PowerBasic (32-bit Console Compiler version) to talk to it from my PC
end. The whole thing was easy... not a single kluge, and things came
up directly.

IEEE-488 must be mostly dead by now.

John
Click to expand...
What sort of security does that Xport implement?

Ethernet might be great in an isolated lab environment, but even there,
plug just one trojaned Windows system into the same LAN and watch some
hacker tell your equipment to go into 'blue smoke' mode.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Hanlon's Razor:
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by
stupidity.
 
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 19:32:55 -0800, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
<Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

I just added Ethernet capability to an instrument, using a Lantronix
Xport thing (looks like a pcb-mount RJ45 connector, but has a cpu and
everything inside... amazing!) to convert ethernet to 57 Kbaud serial,
to talk binary data to my embedded uP. I'm using a program hacked in
PowerBasic (32-bit Console Compiler version) to talk to it from my PC
end. The whole thing was easy... not a single kluge, and things came
up directly.

IEEE-488 must be mostly dead by now.

John

What sort of security does that Xport implement?

Ethernet might be great in an isolated lab environment, but even there,
plug just one trojaned Windows system into the same LAN and watch some
hacker tell your equipment to go into 'blue smoke' mode.
Click to expand...
This particular box will be used in a secure environment that's not
connected to the world. I fact, I sent a prototype CPU board (with the
Xport thing) to my customer two weeks ago, so he could try getting his
software to talk the protocol to my box. Thus far, his security people
have not allowed him to plug it into the network!

The Xport is just shipping bytes, so it's my responsibility to
implement a protocol. Since this site is secure, I'm not doing any
real protection stuff. But then, it *is* modulating a $6 billion
laser, so I guess we should be careful.

It's unlikely that anybody but a real insider could hack a weird
binary protocol with a nonstandard CRC. But there must be, somewhere
dams you could open or refineries you could shut down if you knew
how... LabView or Wonderworks systems or something. That's scairy.

John
 
John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 19:32:55 -0800, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

I just added Ethernet capability to an instrument, using a Lantronix
Xport thing (looks like a pcb-mount RJ45 connector, but has a cpu and
everything inside... amazing!) to convert ethernet to 57 Kbaud serial,
to talk binary data to my embedded uP. I'm using a program hacked in
PowerBasic (32-bit Console Compiler version) to talk to it from my PC
end. The whole thing was easy... not a single kluge, and things came
up directly.

IEEE-488 must be mostly dead by now.

John

What sort of security does that Xport implement?

Ethernet might be great in an isolated lab environment, but even there,
plug just one trojaned Windows system into the same LAN and watch some
hacker tell your equipment to go into 'blue smoke' mode.


This particular box will be used in a secure environment that's not
connected to the world. I fact, I sent a prototype CPU board (with the
Xport thing) to my customer two weeks ago, so he could try getting his
software to talk the protocol to my box. Thus far, his security people
have not allowed him to plug it into the network!

The Xport is just shipping bytes, so it's my responsibility to
implement a protocol. Since this site is secure, I'm not doing any
real protection stuff. But then, it *is* modulating a $6 billion
laser, so I guess we should be careful.

It's unlikely that anybody but a real insider could hack a weird
binary protocol with a nonstandard CRC. But there must be, somewhere
dams you could open or refineries you could shut down if you knew
how... LabView or Wonderworks systems or something. That's scairy.
Click to expand...
It is (was?) a concern within Boeing when I worked there. Any system on
a network
where there is the slightest possibility of the connection of an
insecure system (i.e. Windows) must by itself be secure.

We did have a few isolated lab networks and I suppose an 'open' device
would be OK there. But in my experience, even our IT personnel would
plug their laptops into anything that looked like a network jack and try
to fetch their e-mail or visit external web sites. We had one case of a
networked piece of ATE, running Windows NT. In spite of the best efforts
of our IT staff (and Microsoft support from just across town) to 'lock
down' the system's configuration and disable access to the outside web,
the average wing riveter managed to bypass everything and download the
latest Pamela Anderson screen savers.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.
-- Etaoin Shrdlu
 
John Larkin wrote:

I just added Ethernet capability to an instrument, using a Lantronix
Xport thing (looks like a pcb-mount RJ45 connector, but has a cpu and
everything inside... amazing!) to convert ethernet to 57 Kbaud serial,
to talk binary data to my embedded uP. I'm using a program hacked in
PowerBasic (32-bit Console Compiler version) to talk to it from my PC
end. The whole thing was easy... not a single kluge, and things came
up directly.

IEEE-488 must be mostly dead by now.

John

And if you add a DPAC module, you can make it Wi-Fi! Amazing, isn't it!
Click to expand...
--
Charlie
--
Edmondson Engineering
Unique Solutions to Unusual Problems
 
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 19:32:55 -0800, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
<Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

I just added Ethernet capability to an instrument, using a Lantronix
Xport thing (looks like a pcb-mount RJ45 connector, but has a cpu and
everything inside... amazing!) to convert ethernet to 57 Kbaud serial,
to talk binary data to my embedded uP. I'm using a program hacked in
PowerBasic (32-bit Console Compiler version) to talk to it from my PC
end. The whole thing was easy... not a single kluge, and things came
up directly.

IEEE-488 must be mostly dead by now.

John

What sort of security does that Xport implement?
Click to expand...
Actually, there's a version with data encryption, up to 256 bits. The
standard unit has a lot of security settings that can help it from
being configured/hacked from outside. There sould be vulnerabilities,
of course, but at least it doesn't run Windows.

John
 
John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 19:32:55 -0800, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote:


John Larkin wrote:

I just added Ethernet capability to an instrument, using a Lantronix
Xport thing (looks like a pcb-mount RJ45 connector, but has a cpu and
everything inside... amazing!) to convert ethernet to 57 Kbaud serial,
to talk binary data to my embedded uP. I'm using a program hacked in
PowerBasic (32-bit Console Compiler version) to talk to it from my PC
end. The whole thing was easy... not a single kluge, and things came
up directly.

IEEE-488 must be mostly dead by now.

John

What sort of security does that Xport implement?



Actually, there's a version with data encryption, up to 256 bits. The
standard unit has a lot of security settings that can help it from
being configured/hacked from outside. There sould be vulnerabilities,
of course, but at least it doesn't run Windows.

John
Click to expand...
I went to buy a replacement CD player for my van the other day (the
original is 8 years old, and it cost more to repair than a new one).
When I asked what would be my best (cheapest) solution, I was horrified
to be told I should wait a couple more months to get a (IIRC) "WMA"
stereo. Whats that? "Windows Media Access" he replied (or something like
that), a car cd player running windows so I can also download MP3s. My
response - like fuck I want a windows operating system in a cd player.

nor do I want windows on my scope. Or on my pc, but I alas dont care
enough about pcs to upskill to the point where I can use linux (and
anyway, all my good programs run under windows - simetrix, matlab, etc).
But I do now have mozilla and openoffic instead of IE and outlook and MS
orifice.

We used a lot of rabbit ethernet interface cards, and they are HORRID.
For a start they have a custom Z80-derived processor - aargh. Secondly
their I/O interface is designed to maximise ground loops - you know, one
0V pin on a 20-way connector, conveniently located as far from the clock
pin as possible.....oh and the first 100 or so units we bought all
failed because the twits who designed them overdrove the crap out of the
crystal. I looked at 3 failed modules and found dead xtals in all of
them, so reverse-engineered their oscillator circuit (pearce) and found
they had half the shunt capacitance they should have (they end up in
series...) and 0R instead of about 1k to limit crystal drive. We had an
interesting set of correspondence with rabbit, but finally got thru to
an "engineer" who admitted they had a huge field failure rate, and that
no-one there knew anything about crystals. oops. They are also slow and
cumbersome.


Cheers
Terry
 
On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 11:17:16 +1300, Terry Given wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 19:32:55 -0800, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote:


John Larkin wrote:

I just added Ethernet capability to an instrument, using a Lantronix
Xport thing (looks like a pcb-mount RJ45 connector, but has a cpu and
everything inside... amazing!) to convert ethernet to 57 Kbaud serial,
to talk binary data to my embedded uP. I'm using a program hacked in
PowerBasic (32-bit Console Compiler version) to talk to it from my PC
end. The whole thing was easy... not a single kluge, and things came
up directly.

IEEE-488 must be mostly dead by now.

John

What sort of security does that Xport implement?



Actually, there's a version with data encryption, up to 256 bits. The
standard unit has a lot of security settings that can help it from
being configured/hacked from outside. There sould be vulnerabilities,
of course, but at least it doesn't run Windows.

John

I went to buy a replacement CD player for my van the other day (the
original is 8 years old, and it cost more to repair than a new one).
When I asked what would be my best (cheapest) solution, I was horrified
to be told I should wait a couple more months to get a (IIRC) "WMA"
stereo. Whats that? "Windows Media Access" he replied (or something like
that), a car cd player running windows so I can also download MP3s. My
response - like fuck I want a windows operating system in a cd player.
Click to expand...
And who even wants Windows running anywhere _near_ the automobile istelf!

:-D
Cheers!
Rich
 
Terry Given wrote:
[snip]

Hell yeah - car companies have enough reliability problems with their
electronics as it is, without microsoft shitting in the works.
Click to expand...
Didn't BMW have some problems with their in-dash Windows systems?

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Stupidity kills. But not nearly often enough.
 
Terry Given wrote:
John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 19:32:55 -0800, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote:


John Larkin wrote:

I just added Ethernet capability to an instrument, using a Lantronix
Xport thing (looks like a pcb-mount RJ45 connector, but has a cpu and
everything inside... amazing!) to convert ethernet to 57 Kbaud serial,
to talk binary data to my embedded uP. I'm using a program hacked in
PowerBasic (32-bit Console Compiler version) to talk to it from my PC
end. The whole thing was easy... not a single kluge, and things came
up directly.

IEEE-488 must be mostly dead by now.

John

What sort of security does that Xport implement?



Actually, there's a version with data encryption, up to 256 bits. The
standard unit has a lot of security settings that can help it from
being configured/hacked from outside. There sould be vulnerabilities,
of course, but at least it doesn't run Windows.

John

I went to buy a replacement CD player for my van the other day (the
original is 8 years old, and it cost more to repair than a new one).
When I asked what would be my best (cheapest) solution, I was horrified
to be told I should wait a couple more months to get a (IIRC) "WMA"
stereo. Whats that? "Windows Media Access" he replied (or something like
that), a car cd player running windows so I can also download MP3s. My
response - like fuck I want a windows operating system in a cd player.
Click to expand...
I recall a magazine article about a home-brewed car audio system built
around a small Linux system. One feature was a WiFi card so that one
could park their car in the garage and update their playlist from their
desktop PC.

The killer app. these days is an auto adapter for an iPod.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Klein bottle for rent -- inquire within
 
Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
Terry Given wrote:

John Larkin wrote:


On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 19:32:55 -0800, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote:



John Larkin wrote:


I just added Ethernet capability to an instrument, using a Lantronix
Xport thing (looks like a pcb-mount RJ45 connector, but has a cpu and
everything inside... amazing!) to convert ethernet to 57 Kbaud serial,
to talk binary data to my embedded uP. I'm using a program hacked in
PowerBasic (32-bit Console Compiler version) to talk to it from my PC
end. The whole thing was easy... not a single kluge, and things came
up directly.

IEEE-488 must be mostly dead by now.

John

What sort of security does that Xport implement?



Actually, there's a version with data encryption, up to 256 bits. The
standard unit has a lot of security settings that can help it from
being configured/hacked from outside. There sould be vulnerabilities,
of course, but at least it doesn't run Windows.

John

I went to buy a replacement CD player for my van the other day (the
original is 8 years old, and it cost more to repair than a new one).
When I asked what would be my best (cheapest) solution, I was horrified
to be told I should wait a couple more months to get a (IIRC) "WMA"
stereo. Whats that? "Windows Media Access" he replied (or something like
that), a car cd player running windows so I can also download MP3s. My
response - like fuck I want a windows operating system in a cd player.


I recall a magazine article about a home-brewed car audio system built
around a small Linux system. One feature was a WiFi card so that one
could park their car in the garage and update their playlist from their
desktop PC.

The killer app. these days is an auto adapter for an iPod.
Click to expand...
Me, I'm just happy with a cd player so I can sing along to my cat
stevens CDs. or my Stiff Little Fingers CDs. Or perhaps Nina Hagen, or
Vivaldi.

Cheers
Terry
 
On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 00:50:18 GMT, Rich Grise <rich@example.net>
wrote:

And who even wants Windows running anywhere _near_ the automobile istelf!

:-D
Cheers!
Rich
Click to expand...

This ought to scare you a bit then.

http://www.microsoft.com/automotive/windowsautomotive/default.mspx


An excerpt from the page:

Microsoft is currently working with automakers and suppliers
worldwide to put its Connected Car technology into production. It
recently added several new car models to its growing customer
base using Windows Automotive technology. Drivers and passengers
can now experience MicrosoftŽ technology in 23 preinstalled and
aftermarket devices from 12 world-class automakers and suppliers
including BMW, Citroën, Clarion Co. Ltd., DaimlerChrysler, Fiat,
Subaru, Honda, Hyundai, Mitsubishi, NexTech, Toyota and Volvo.
 
Carl D. Smith wrote:

On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 00:50:18 GMT, Rich Grise <rich@example.net
wrote:


And who even wants Windows running anywhere _near_ the automobile istelf!

:-D
Cheers!
Rich



This ought to scare you a bit then.

http://www.microsoft.com/automotive/windowsautomotive/default.mspx


An excerpt from the page:

Microsoft is currently working with automakers and suppliers
worldwide to put its Connected Car technology into production. It
recently added several new car models to its growing customer
base using Windows Automotive technology. Drivers and passengers
can now experience MicrosoftŽ technology in 23 preinstalled and
aftermarket devices from 12 world-class automakers and suppliers
including BMW, Citroën, Clarion Co. Ltd., DaimlerChrysler, Fiat,
Subaru, Honda, Hyundai, Mitsubishi, NexTech, Toyota and Volvo.
Click to expand...
Any serious research on CAN (controller area networks) technology will
cough up mentions of very strict firewalls between the dashboard and
body networks on the one hand and the engine management and anti-lock
braking on the other.

Hmm. I wonder why?

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com
 
I just did some googling but couldn't find it.....

There used to be a website taking the piss out of microshite and comparing it
to the real world......

How we just wouldn't accept a car that, occasionally, for no apparent reason,
wouldn't steer to the left, or the gear stick got "greyed out" and simply
couldn't be used.

Or the whole dashboard went blue, the steering wheel disappeared and the car
slowed to a halt and wouldn't work again until it was stopped, then we waited
15 minutes for it to perform a "scanengine" and told us not to simply stop the
engine running again but to ensure the system was shut down properly.

Yet for some reason people just put up with it on computers. I know if any
other tool did that we'd just throw it away.

Oh yeah, why is it the only time I see "this program has performed an illegal
operation, if the problem persists, contact the program vendor" is when
microshite software causes the crash?

Gibbo
 
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