AC coils in multisim

S

Skeleton Man

Guest
Hi all,

I've drawn up a DPDT relay in Multisim 8, but there is no way to tell it the
coil should be AC ! The relay "chatters" which is definately not what I
want.

I can't just change it to use a DC power source either, AC is a critical
factor. Any suggestions ?

Multisim actually appears to lack any method of making any component AC !

Regards,
Chris
 
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 20:46:27 -0400, "Skeleton Man"
<invalid@guestwho.com> wrote:

Hi all,

I've drawn up a DPDT relay in Multisim 8, but there is no way to tell it the
coil should be AC ! The relay "chatters" which is definately not what I
want.

I can't just change it to use a DC power source either, AC is a critical
factor. Any suggestions ?

Multisim actually appears to lack any method of making any component AC !

Regards,
Chris
Click to expand...
Relays in Spice are just (DC) voltage-controlled switches. For AC
just write your own behavioral model ;-)

Or just add a peak detector in front of the relay model.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
Relays in Spice are just (DC) voltage-controlled switches. For AC
just write your own behavioral model ;-)

Or just add a peak detector in front of the relay model.
Click to expand...
Thanks, but I'm only new to Multisim (or simulation software of any kind),
so I would have no idea how to do either of those.

Regards,
Chris
 
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 21:26:46 -0400, "Skeleton Man"
<invalid@guestwho.com> wrote:

Relays in Spice are just (DC) voltage-controlled switches. For AC
just write your own behavioral model ;-)

Or just add a peak detector in front of the relay model.

Thanks, but I'm only new to Multisim (or simulation software of any kind),
so I would have no idea how to do either of those.

Regards,
Chris
Click to expand...
PEAK DETECTOR....

(DIODE)
AC----|>|----+-------+-----• DC OUTPUT
| |
C R
| |
| |
GND GND

I hate ASCII ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
Jim Thompson a écrit :
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 21:26:46 -0400, "Skeleton Man"
invalid@guestwho.com> wrote:

Relays in Spice are just (DC) voltage-controlled switches. For AC
just write your own behavioral model ;-)
Or just add a peak detector in front of the relay model.
Thanks, but I'm only new to Multisim (or simulation software of any kind),
so I would have no idea how to do either of those.

Regards,
Chris


PEAK DETECTOR....

(DIODE)
AC----|>|----+-------+-----• DC OUTPUT
| |
C R
| |
| |
GND GND
Click to expand...
Oh, one ascii drawing, that's not only conceptual but also works ?-)

Do you have any component value?


--
Thanks,
Fred.
 
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:35:47 +0200, Fred Bartoli
<fred._canxxxel_this_bartoli@RemoveThatAlso_free.fr_AndThisToo> wrote:

Jim Thompson a écrit :
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 21:26:46 -0400, "Skeleton Man"
invalid@guestwho.com> wrote:

Relays in Spice are just (DC) voltage-controlled switches. For AC
just write your own behavioral model ;-)
Or just add a peak detector in front of the relay model.
Thanks, but I'm only new to Multisim (or simulation software of any kind),
so I would have no idea how to do either of those.

Regards,
Chris


PEAK DETECTOR....

(DIODE)
AC----|>|----+-------+-----• DC OUTPUT
| |
C R
| |
| |
GND GND


Oh, one ascii drawing, that's not only conceptual but also works ?-)

Do you have any component value?
Click to expand...
60Hz ?

Diode: 1N4148, 1N4001, what have you
Capacitor: 1uF
Resistor: 510K

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
Jim Thompson a écrit :
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:35:47 +0200, Fred Bartoli
fred._canxxxel_this_bartoli@RemoveThatAlso_free.fr_AndThisToo> wrote:

Jim Thompson a écrit :
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 21:26:46 -0400, "Skeleton Man"
invalid@guestwho.com> wrote:

Relays in Spice are just (DC) voltage-controlled switches. For AC
just write your own behavioral model ;-)
Or just add a peak detector in front of the relay model.
Thanks, but I'm only new to Multisim (or simulation software of any kind),
so I would have no idea how to do either of those.

Regards,
Chris

PEAK DETECTOR....

(DIODE)
AC----|>|----+-------+-----• DC OUTPUT
| |
C R
| |
| |
GND GND

Oh, one ascii drawing, that's not only conceptual but also works ?-)

Do you have any component value?

60Hz ?

Diode: 1N4148, 1N4001, what have you
Capacitor: 1uF
Resistor: 510K
Click to expand...
510K? It's E24. I don't have that in my (spice) junk box.

--
Thanks,
Fred.
 
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:40:59 +0200, Fred Bartoli
<fred._canxxxel_this_bartoli@RemoveThatAlso_free.fr_AndThisToo> wrote:

Jim Thompson a écrit :
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:35:47 +0200, Fred Bartoli
fred._canxxxel_this_bartoli@RemoveThatAlso_free.fr_AndThisToo> wrote:

Jim Thompson a écrit :
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 21:26:46 -0400, "Skeleton Man"
invalid@guestwho.com> wrote:

Relays in Spice are just (DC) voltage-controlled switches. For AC
just write your own behavioral model ;-)
Or just add a peak detector in front of the relay model.
Thanks, but I'm only new to Multisim (or simulation software of any kind),
so I would have no idea how to do either of those.

Regards,
Chris

PEAK DETECTOR....

(DIODE)
AC----|>|----+-------+-----• DC OUTPUT
| |
C R
| |
| |
GND GND

Oh, one ascii drawing, that's not only conceptual but also works ?-)

Do you have any component value?

60Hz ?

Diode: 1N4148, 1N4001, what have you
Capacitor: 1uF
Resistor: 510K


510K? It's E24. I don't have that in my (spice) junk box.
Click to expand...
It's rather arbitrary... choose your ripple... what's in your junk
box... 470K ?:)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
Jim Thompson a écrit :
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:40:59 +0200, Fred Bartoli
fred._canxxxel_this_bartoli@RemoveThatAlso_free.fr_AndThisToo> wrote:

Jim Thompson a écrit :
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:35:47 +0200, Fred Bartoli
fred._canxxxel_this_bartoli@RemoveThatAlso_free.fr_AndThisToo> wrote:

Jim Thompson a écrit :
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 21:26:46 -0400, "Skeleton Man"
invalid@guestwho.com> wrote:

Relays in Spice are just (DC) voltage-controlled switches. For AC
just write your own behavioral model ;-)
Or just add a peak detector in front of the relay model.
Thanks, but I'm only new to Multisim (or simulation software of any kind),
so I would have no idea how to do either of those.

Regards,
Chris

PEAK DETECTOR....

(DIODE)
AC----|>|----+-------+-----• DC OUTPUT
| |
C R
| |
| |
GND GND

Oh, one ascii drawing, that's not only conceptual but also works ?-)

Do you have any component value?
60Hz ?

Diode: 1N4148, 1N4001, what have you
Capacitor: 1uF
Resistor: 510K

510K? It's E24. I don't have that in my (spice) junk box.

It's rather arbitrary... choose your ripple... what's in your junk
box... 470K ?:)
Click to expand...
Not 470K anymore. These were carbon comp and have drifted a lot...
I'd prefer an adjustable cap, but I can't find the model for a 1uF+ one.
Oh, and the dial is really ugly.


--
Thanks,
Fred.
 
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:48:16 +0200, Fred Bartoli
<fred._canxxxel_this_bartoli@RemoveThatAlso_free.fr_AndThisToo> wrote:

Jim Thompson a écrit :
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:40:59 +0200, Fred Bartoli
fred._canxxxel_this_bartoli@RemoveThatAlso_free.fr_AndThisToo> wrote:

Jim Thompson a écrit :
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:35:47 +0200, Fred Bartoli
fred._canxxxel_this_bartoli@RemoveThatAlso_free.fr_AndThisToo> wrote:

Jim Thompson a écrit :
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 21:26:46 -0400, "Skeleton Man"
invalid@guestwho.com> wrote:

Relays in Spice are just (DC) voltage-controlled switches. For AC
just write your own behavioral model ;-)
Or just add a peak detector in front of the relay model.
Thanks, but I'm only new to Multisim (or simulation software of any kind),
so I would have no idea how to do either of those.

Regards,
Chris

PEAK DETECTOR....

(DIODE)
AC----|>|----+-------+-----• DC OUTPUT
| |
C R
| |
| |
GND GND

Oh, one ascii drawing, that's not only conceptual but also works ?-)

Do you have any component value?
60Hz ?

Diode: 1N4148, 1N4001, what have you
Capacitor: 1uF
Resistor: 510K

510K? It's E24. I don't have that in my (spice) junk box.

It's rather arbitrary... choose your ripple... what's in your junk
box... 470K ?:)


Not 470K anymore. These were carbon comp and have drifted a lot...
I'd prefer an adjustable cap, but I can't find the model for a 1uF+ one.
Oh, and the dial is really ugly.
Click to expand...
That's some simulator... can't set values ?:)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
Jim Thompson a écrit :
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:48:16 +0200, Fred Bartoli
fred._canxxxel_this_bartoli@RemoveThatAlso_free.fr_AndThisToo> wrote:

Jim Thompson a écrit :
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:40:59 +0200, Fred Bartoli
fred._canxxxel_this_bartoli@RemoveThatAlso_free.fr_AndThisToo> wrote:

Jim Thompson a écrit :
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:35:47 +0200, Fred Bartoli
fred._canxxxel_this_bartoli@RemoveThatAlso_free.fr_AndThisToo> wrote:

Jim Thompson a écrit :
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 21:26:46 -0400, "Skeleton Man"
invalid@guestwho.com> wrote:

Relays in Spice are just (DC) voltage-controlled switches. For AC
just write your own behavioral model ;-)
Or just add a peak detector in front of the relay model.
Thanks, but I'm only new to Multisim (or simulation software of any kind),
so I would have no idea how to do either of those.

Regards,
Chris

PEAK DETECTOR....

(DIODE)
AC----|>|----+-------+-----• DC OUTPUT
| |
C R
| |
| |
GND GND

Oh, one ascii drawing, that's not only conceptual but also works ?-)

Do you have any component value?
60Hz ?

Diode: 1N4148, 1N4001, what have you
Capacitor: 1uF
Resistor: 510K

510K? It's E24. I don't have that in my (spice) junk box.
It's rather arbitrary... choose your ripple... what's in your junk
box... 470K ?:)

Not 470K anymore. These were carbon comp and have drifted a lot...
I'd prefer an adjustable cap, but I can't find the model for a 1uF+ one.
Oh, and the dial is really ugly.

That's some simulator... can't set values ?:)
Click to expand...
Hmmm, got you. I'll check if I can file the resistor down.


--
Thanks,
Fred.
 
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:59:13 +0200, Fred Bartoli
Hmmm, got you. I'll check if I can file the resistor down.
Click to expand...
Surely, you'd file a resistor up (in resistance), not down. Sheesh,
beginners! <g>
 
Richard Kanarek a écrit :
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:59:13 +0200, Fred Bartoli
Hmmm, got you. I'll check if I can file the resistor down.

Surely, you'd file a resistor up (in resistance), not down. Sheesh,
beginners! <g
Click to expand...
I was of course speaking of diameter :)

But now you remind me, I'm sure I have somewhere one of those (pretty
rare) thickening files, so I could go either way.

--
Thanks,
Fred.
 
I don't suppose anyone knows where to find a model for an AC relay ? Adding
components to recifty it isn't going to help because the same live wire
feeding the relay coil is also used to supply power to devices attached to
the relay..

What I'm trying to simulate is the time delay relay from this diagram (a
1970's pepsi vending machine):

http://www.guestwho.com/pepsi/wiring.gif

The idea is that the relay stays closed for about 1.5 - 2.5 seconds after
power is removed from the coil.. this is meant to hold the solenoid down
long enough for a can to roll out of the machine.. without the cap,
resistor and diode the relay cuts out way too fast and the solenoid springs
back up before the drink can roll out..

The schematic is hand drawn by myself based on a very worn and faded diagram
and a visual inspection of the wiring. I think the order of the components
for the time delay is wrong because I get no voltage across the coil, and if
I measure between one side of the coil and the diode, I get 56V AC.. The
original relay was worn and the cap was leaking so I decided to replace it..
but it doesn't work..

Any help would be great.. if I'm in the wrong group then kindly point me in
the right direction..

Regards,
Chris
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Welcome to EDABoard.com

Sponsor

Back
Top