C
Commander Kinsey
Guest
https://www.sciencealert.com/old-nasa-papers-have-revealed-a-map-of-the-entire-internet-from-1973
A
Anthony William Sloman
Guest
On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 2:59:10 PM UTC+11, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> https://www.sciencealert.com/old-nasa-papers-have-revealed-a-map-of-the-entire-internet-from-1973
It got bigger quite rapidly. My wife started sending e-mails from England to her friend at MIT from around 1980 (though she did have to type in very long addresses).
A few years later we were swapping shopping lists across Cambridge via the Rutherford Appleton Laboratory in Oxforshire, where I had log-in.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
> https://www.sciencealert.com/old-nasa-papers-have-revealed-a-map-of-the-entire-internet-from-1973
It got bigger quite rapidly. My wife started sending e-mails from England to her friend at MIT from around 1980 (though she did have to type in very long addresses).
A few years later we were swapping shopping lists across Cambridge via the Rutherford Appleton Laboratory in Oxforshire, where I had log-in.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
E
Ed Cryer
Guest
Commander Kinsey wrote:
> https://www.sciencealert.com/old-nasa-papers-have-revealed-a-map-of-the-entire-internet-from-1973
Interesting.
I saw a lot of PDP-11s but never a PDP-10. I also remember the acoustic
couplers on modems. You placed a phone in a holding yoke and dialled,
and got the famous crackle-crackle of modem-handshakes.
Ed
> https://www.sciencealert.com/old-nasa-papers-have-revealed-a-map-of-the-entire-internet-from-1973
Interesting.
I saw a lot of PDP-11s but never a PDP-10. I also remember the acoustic
couplers on modems. You placed a phone in a holding yoke and dialled,
and got the famous crackle-crackle of modem-handshakes.
Ed
P
Paul
Guest
On 2/22/2023 10:59 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> https://www.sciencealert.com/old-nasa-papers-have-revealed-a-map-of-the-entire-internet-from-1973
There was some form of early communications, where you used
that map and the entries, to manually specify a path. That\'s
why they made those maps. The maps were not for fun, they
were a \"driving guide\".
The current Internet looks like this. There should be a better
version of this (either hires or SVG) out there somewhere.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Internet_map_1024_-_transparent%2C_inverted.png
*******
Note that there is an Internet2, and you\'re not on it
It has a map. CERN dumps particle traces over that Internet2,
and there would be a ton of 100Gbit/sec links. There\'s no
Hollywood movies on this Internet. Only particle porn.
Gobs of data from detectors like this, are sent over
multiple super-high-speed links. Universities are connected,
ones with physics departments maybe.
https://cdn.sci.news/images/2019/07/image_7414-ALICE-Detector.jpg
The traffic levels on a thing like that are high enough,
the user community should be aware of any major transfers.
*******
We can\'t continue to use our current Internet design, because
the routing and DNS are too poor. There have been hijackings
of AS routes, where the traffic is forced to travel through
a foreign country. This allows surveillance (easy, if traffic
is unencrypted). Don\'t hold your breath though. I expect we\'ll
see the full extent of hijacking, when there is a war. And that
is the incentive to fix it. I don\'t know the details, just
that what we have now is \"dreadful\" from a security and control
perspective.
Paul
> https://www.sciencealert.com/old-nasa-papers-have-revealed-a-map-of-the-entire-internet-from-1973
There was some form of early communications, where you used
that map and the entries, to manually specify a path. That\'s
why they made those maps. The maps were not for fun, they
were a \"driving guide\".
The current Internet looks like this. There should be a better
version of this (either hires or SVG) out there somewhere.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Internet_map_1024_-_transparent%2C_inverted.png
*******
Note that there is an Internet2, and you\'re not on it
It has a map. CERN dumps particle traces over that Internet2,
and there would be a ton of 100Gbit/sec links. There\'s no
Hollywood movies on this Internet. Only particle porn.
Gobs of data from detectors like this, are sent over
multiple super-high-speed links. Universities are connected,
ones with physics departments maybe.
https://cdn.sci.news/images/2019/07/image_7414-ALICE-Detector.jpg
The traffic levels on a thing like that are high enough,
the user community should be aware of any major transfers.
*******
We can\'t continue to use our current Internet design, because
the routing and DNS are too poor. There have been hijackings
of AS routes, where the traffic is forced to travel through
a foreign country. This allows surveillance (easy, if traffic
is unencrypted). Don\'t hold your breath though. I expect we\'ll
see the full extent of hijacking, when there is a war. And that
is the incentive to fix it. I don\'t know the details, just
that what we have now is \"dreadful\" from a security and control
perspective.
Paul
A
a a
Guest
On Thursday, 23 February 2023 at 11:41:45 UTC+1, Paul wrote:
and won 2 awards at the world\'s first WWW Conference in Geneva
(Globewide Network Academy)
We were Global Leaders
Our corporation set up one of the world\'s first corporate non-for-profit websiteOn 2/22/2023 10:59 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
https://www.sciencealert.com/old-nasa-papers-have-revealed-a-map-of-the-entire-internet-from-1973
There was some form of early communications, where you used
that map and the entries, to manually specify a path. That\'s
why they made those maps. The maps were not for fun, they
were a \"driving guide\".
The current Internet looks like this. There should be a better
version of this (either hires or SVG) out there somewhere.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Internet_map_1024_-_transparent%2C_inverted.png
*******
Note that there is an Internet2, and you\'re not on it
It has a map. CERN dumps particle traces over that Internet2,
and there would be a ton of 100Gbit/sec links. There\'s no
Hollywood movies on this Internet. Only particle porn.
Gobs of data from detectors like this, are sent over
multiple super-high-speed links. Universities are connected,
ones with physics departments maybe.
https://cdn.sci.news/images/2019/07/image_7414-ALICE-Detector.jpg
The traffic levels on a thing like that are high enough,
the user community should be aware of any major transfers.
*******
We can\'t continue to use our current Internet design, because
the routing and DNS are too poor. There have been hijackings
of AS routes, where the traffic is forced to travel through
a foreign country. This allows surveillance (easy, if traffic
is unencrypted). Don\'t hold your breath though. I expect we\'ll
see the full extent of hijacking, when there is a war. And that
is the incentive to fix it. I don\'t know the details, just
that what we have now is \"dreadful\" from a security and control
perspective.
Paul
and won 2 awards at the world\'s first WWW Conference in Geneva
(Globewide Network Academy)
We were Global Leaders
A
a a
Guest
>
Yet one more #veryStupidByLowIQaa post.
Yet one more #veryStupidByLowIQaa post.
A
Anthony William Sloman
Guest
On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 1:28:38 AM UTC+11, a a wrote:
<snip>
In the wrong direction. It doesn\'t seem to have survived, and if a a had any part in it, one can understand why.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
<snip>
Our corporation set up one of the world\'s first corporate non-for-profit website and won 2 awards at the world\'s first WWW Conference in Geneva
(Globewide Network Academy)
We were Global Leaders
In the wrong direction. It doesn\'t seem to have survived, and if a a had any part in it, one can understand why.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
A
a a
Guest
On Thursday, 23 February 2023 at 16:07:15 UTC+1, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
It was not easy to share my time between GNA (COB) and Global University Systems (local chapter director) and other official activities
But the Globewide Network Academy made the history
---
https://www.bing.com/search?form=&q=globewide+network+academy&form=QBLH&sp=-1&pq=globewide+network+aca&sc=8-21&qs=n&sk=
About 1 310 000 results
Joseph, President, moved from Austin, TX back to Asia with his Ph.D. in astronomy
On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 1:28:38 AM UTC+11, a a wrote:
On Thursday, 23 February 2023 at 11:41:45 UTC+1, Paul wrote:
On 2/22/2023 10:59 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
https://www.sciencealert.com/old-nasa-papers-have-revealed-a-map-of-the-entire-internet-from-1973
snip
Our corporation set up one of the world\'s first corporate non-for-profit website and won 2 awards at the world\'s first WWW Conference in Geneva
(Globewide Network Academy)
We were Global Leaders
In the wrong direction. It doesn\'t seem to have survived, and if a a had any part in it, one can understand why.
It was not easy to share my time between GNA (COB) and Global University Systems (local chapter director) and other official activities
But the Globewide Network Academy made the history
---
https://www.bing.com/search?form=&q=globewide+network+academy&form=QBLH&sp=-1&pq=globewide+network+aca&sc=8-21&qs=n&sk=
About 1 310 000 results
Joseph, President, moved from Austin, TX back to Asia with his Ph.D. in astronomy
A
a a
Guest
>
Yet one more #veryStupidByLowIQaa post.
Yet one more #veryStupidByLowIQaa post.
P
Paul
Guest
On 2/23/2023 5:20 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
You needed the right shape of handset to fit the acoustic coupler.
But they didn\'t start messing with the physical details, until
the era where third parties were \"allowed\" to make phones. At one
time, only Bell equipment could be connected to a Bell line. The
Bell phones had the \"rounded earpiece\" suited to the acoustic coupler.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_500_telephone#/media/File:Model500Telephone1951.jpg
Paul
You needed the right shape of handset to fit the acoustic coupler.
But they didn\'t start messing with the physical details, until
the era where third parties were \"allowed\" to make phones. At one
time, only Bell equipment could be connected to a Bell line. The
Bell phones had the \"rounded earpiece\" suited to the acoustic coupler.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_500_telephone#/media/File:Model500Telephone1951.jpg
Paul
N
none
Guest
In article <tt7ft2$1rkje$1@dont-email.me>, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
My company was lucky.
The bsovax had a direct line to the european backbone.
My address was mcvax!bsovax!albert
Groetjes Albert
--
Don\'t praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn\'t make spring.
You must not say \"hey\" before you have crossed the bridge. Don\'t sell the
hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -
My company was lucky.
The bsovax had a direct line to the european backbone.
My address was mcvax!bsovax!albert
Groetjes Albert
--
Don\'t praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn\'t make spring.
You must not say \"hey\" before you have crossed the bridge. Don\'t sell the
hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -
P
Philip Herlihy
Guest
In article <tt8t7v$20c4s$1@dont-email.me>, Paul wrote...
I remember being shown an accoustic coupler and telephone handset. The two
programmers using it took the mickey by trying to persuade me that they could
give a computer instructions by simply talking to it. Who did they think would
ever believe that?
I\'m reminded that this was the setup where I was once required to do a late
shift alone doing some pretty mind-numbing data entry, and I was bored out of
my mind. The system (PDP-8 with a BASIC command interpreter, I think?)
stopped, and I didn\'t know how to restart it - nothing on the help-sheet
actually helped. I\'d not sat at a terminal many times before this, and I found
I could type all sorts of nonsense into it (unprintable, mainly) and get stupid
error messages back. Until I typed \"Go To Hell\". It all started up again as
if by magic. I finished my shift and left. Three months later they discovered
the entire dataset from the last six months was utterly scrambled. How could
that have happened?
https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/362929.362947
--
Phil, London
I remember being shown an accoustic coupler and telephone handset. The two
programmers using it took the mickey by trying to persuade me that they could
give a computer instructions by simply talking to it. Who did they think would
ever believe that?
I\'m reminded that this was the setup where I was once required to do a late
shift alone doing some pretty mind-numbing data entry, and I was bored out of
my mind. The system (PDP-8 with a BASIC command interpreter, I think?)
stopped, and I didn\'t know how to restart it - nothing on the help-sheet
actually helped. I\'d not sat at a terminal many times before this, and I found
I could type all sorts of nonsense into it (unprintable, mainly) and get stupid
error messages back. Until I typed \"Go To Hell\". It all started up again as
if by magic. I finished my shift and left. Three months later they discovered
the entire dataset from the last six months was utterly scrambled. How could
that have happened?
https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/362929.362947
--
Phil, London
P
Paul
Guest
On 2/24/2023 7:04 AM, albert wrote:
Yeah, that was the format.
I don\'t know if TCP/IP existed back then or not.
Or Domain Name Service.
Paul
Yeah, that was the format.
I don\'t know if TCP/IP existed back then or not.
Or Domain Name Service.
Paul
F
FromTheRafters
Guest
Paul brought next idea :
https://www.techopedia.com/definition/6138/bang-path
https://www.techopedia.com/definition/6138/bang-path
E
Ed Cryer
Guest
Paul wrote:
Late 1970s, county of East Sussex, UK. I worked as an in-house
programmer at a vast government computer site. There were some contract
programmers working there too, twice our salaries but they got all the
maintenance work while we were developing a large new system on several
ICL mainframes.
The contractors got sacked. A couple of days later we discovered that
some files had been erased.
After much investigation we found that it had been done from a public
phone-box, using a portable work-station with an acoustic coupler on the
side, that the contractors carried around with them. And the public
phone-boxes at the time had phones exactly like the one in your picture.
We never convicted them; lack of proof. But we all knew, and we knew
which one of them was the most likely culprit.
Ed
Late 1970s, county of East Sussex, UK. I worked as an in-house
programmer at a vast government computer site. There were some contract
programmers working there too, twice our salaries but they got all the
maintenance work while we were developing a large new system on several
ICL mainframes.
The contractors got sacked. A couple of days later we discovered that
some files had been erased.
After much investigation we found that it had been done from a public
phone-box, using a portable work-station with an acoustic coupler on the
side, that the contractors carried around with them. And the public
phone-boxes at the time had phones exactly like the one in your picture.
We never convicted them; lack of proof. But we all knew, and we knew
which one of them was the most likely culprit.
Ed
M
Mark Lloyd
Guest
On 2/23/23 17:35, Paul wrote:
I have an older relative who got an implanted pacemaker about 1992. The
device she had to send data from it to the hospital used an acoustic
coupler, although that one did work with the cordless phone.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/
\"Creationists are the best evidence yet of the absence of intelligent
design\"
I have an older relative who got an implanted pacemaker about 1992. The
device she had to send data from it to the hospital used an acoustic
coupler, although that one did work with the cordless phone.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/
\"Creationists are the best evidence yet of the absence of intelligent
design\"
T
Three Jeeps
Guest
On Wednesday, February 22, 2023 at 11:21:37â¯PM UTC-5, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
One of the other groups doing the networking work and an IMP, but I never ventured into that lab.
Being a member of the CMU community since 1975, I was sending emails and assembler files (pdp11) to my thesis advisor and other members of our team as far back as 1977 IIRC. A number of CMU faculty were part of DEC sponsored research projects. The central campus computing resources at that time consisted of a number of IBM 360s and 370s but in our labs we had PDP11s and PDP10s. When on the hunt for a dedicated machine for our work, my office mate said....just go looking around, this place uses PDP11s as door stops....fun times.
One of the other groups doing the networking work and an IMP, but I never ventured into that lab.
C
Commander Kinsey
Guest
On Thu, 23 Feb 2023 10:20:04 -0000, Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:
Why were those handshakes so long? Did they include tests ate different baud rates to see which worked ok?
Why were those handshakes so long? Did they include tests ate different baud rates to see which worked ok?
S
Snit
Guest
On Feb 24, 2023 at 11:49:12 PM MST, \"\"Commander Kinsey\"\" wrote
<op.10ws8anxmvhs6z@ryzen.home>:
Yes. They went back and forth to find what they could support that would be
best.
At the time I could hear different tones and know at least some of what was
being tested.
--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.
They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.
<op.10ws8anxmvhs6z@ryzen.home>:
Yes. They went back and forth to find what they could support that would be
best.
At the time I could hear different tones and know at least some of what was
being tested.
--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.
They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.
P
Paul
Guest
On 2/25/2023 1:49 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
https://oona.windytan.com/posters/dialup-final.png
Paul
https://oona.windytan.com/posters/dialup-final.png
Paul