9V rechargeable batteries and chargers?

J

Joerg

Guest
Hi Folks,

At church we use several Ansmann Energy 16 chargers and Tenergy 9V
batteries. Long story short they've been good to us but lately not so
much. The charge indicators on the stations fade and it all seems not to
be all that reliable anymore. Fairly new NiMH batteries peter out in the
middle of a service and so on. No complaints, we got enough life out of
this setup. So, looking for a new solution here. We have to stay with 9V
because the (expensive) wireless mikes need these and I'd would like to
move to 7-cell instead of 6-cell. Read some good reviews about the
Maha/Powerex brand:

http://www.amazon.com/PowerEx-MH-C490F-DCW-Worldwide-Battery-Charger/dp/B0002WKD80/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hpc_30/180-3329658-7661802

They also have low discharge 9V 230mAh batteries which sounds nice.
However, I am not familiar with this brand. Maybe someone here is? Or
knows of even better systems?

Must be fully automatic, meaning stick the batteries in there no matter
what their remaining charge is and leave them in the charger until next
Sunday.

9V batteries with two LiIon cells in there are, of course, the ultimate
cat's meouw. But they seem not to be ready for prime time yet, I could
not find multi-bay chargers and I am afraid someone will accidentally
stick them into a regular charger and .. KABLAM.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 
"Joerg" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:9n1htmF26vU1@mid.individual.net...
Hi Folks,

At church we use several Ansmann Energy 16 chargers and Tenergy 9V
batteries. Long story short they've been good to us but lately not so
much. The charge indicators on the stations fade and it all seems not
to
be all that reliable anymore. Fairly new NiMH batteries peter out in
the
middle of a service and so on. No complaints, we got enough life out
of
this setup. So, looking for a new solution here. We have to stay with
9V
because the (expensive) wireless mikes need these and I'd would like
to
move to 7-cell instead of 6-cell. Read some good reviews about the
Maha/Powerex brand:

http://www.amazon.com/PowerEx-MH-C490F-DCW-Worldwide-Battery-Charger/dp/B0002WKD80/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hpc_30/180-3329658-7661802

They also have low discharge 9V 230mAh batteries which sounds nice.
However, I am not familiar with this brand. Maybe someone here is? Or
knows of even better systems?

Must be fully automatic, meaning stick the batteries in there no
matter
what their remaining charge is and leave them in the charger until
next
Sunday.

9V batteries with two LiIon cells in there are, of course, the
ultimate
cat's meouw. But they seem not to be ready for prime time yet, I could
not find multi-bay chargers and I am afraid someone will accidentally
stick them into a regular charger and .. KABLAM.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
What about Varta?
<http://www.en.varta-consumer.com/en/Products/Rechargeables/Power-Accus/9V-200-mAh.aspx#9V-200-mAh>

All batteries will have a limited lifetime. I would say if you got a
year or two out of them, your doing good.

Cheers
 
Martin Riddle wrote:
"Joerg" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:9n1htmF26vU1@mid.individual.net...
Hi Folks,

At church we use several Ansmann Energy 16 chargers and Tenergy 9V
batteries. Long story short they've been good to us but lately not so
much. The charge indicators on the stations fade and it all seems not
to
be all that reliable anymore. Fairly new NiMH batteries peter out in
the
middle of a service and so on. No complaints, we got enough life out
of
this setup. So, looking for a new solution here. We have to stay with
9V
because the (expensive) wireless mikes need these and I'd would like
to
move to 7-cell instead of 6-cell. Read some good reviews about the
Maha/Powerex brand:

http://www.amazon.com/PowerEx-MH-C490F-DCW-Worldwide-Battery-Charger/dp/B0002WKD80/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hpc_30/180-3329658-7661802

They also have low discharge 9V 230mAh batteries which sounds nice.
However, I am not familiar with this brand. Maybe someone here is? Or
knows of even better systems?

Must be fully automatic, meaning stick the batteries in there no
matter
what their remaining charge is and leave them in the charger until
next
Sunday.

9V batteries with two LiIon cells in there are, of course, the
ultimate
cat's meouw. But they seem not to be ready for prime time yet, I could
not find multi-bay chargers and I am afraid someone will accidentally
stick them into a regular charger and .. KABLAM.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

What about Varta?
http://www.en.varta-consumer.com/en/Products/Rechargeables/Power-Accus/9V-200-mAh.aspx#9V-200-mAh
Those are a bit marginal in capacity. Only 6 cells (so 8.4V) and 200mAh.


All batteries will have a limited lifetime. I would say if you got a
year or two out of them, your doing good.
Lately it wasn't that great anymore. The newer chargers seem to wear out
faster, LEDs lit dimply, and so on. One blew a primary switcher. The
batteries don't last as long as they used to, even fresh ones.

So I am looking for something a tad better. Like usual, never really
happy with the status quo :)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 
"Joke"
What about Varta?
http://www.en.varta-consumer.com/en/Products/Rechargeables/Power-Accus/9V-200-mAh.aspx#9V-200-mAh


Those are a bit marginal in capacity. Only 6 cells (so 8.4V) and 200mAh.

** 8.4 / 1.2 = 7 cells.

Perfect for any radio mic that use a 9V battery.


All batteries will have a limited lifetime. I would say if you got a
year or two out of them, your doing good.

** The OP is buying Chinese consumer level junk and expecting professional
results.


.... Phil
 
"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:9n1lfhFofiU1@mid.individual.net...
"Joke"

What about Varta?
http://www.en.varta-consumer.com/en/Products/Rechargeables/Power-Accus/9V-200-mAh.aspx#9V-200-mAh


Those are a bit marginal in capacity. Only 6 cells (so 8.4V) and
200mAh.


** 8.4 / 1.2 = 7 cells.

Perfect for any radio mic that use a 9V battery.


All batteries will have a limited lifetime. I would say if you got
a
year or two out of them, your doing good.


** The OP is buying Chinese consumer level junk and expecting
professional results.


... Phil
Rechargeable 9v's always seemed to be marginal.
But, we had used the Vartas (NiCd) years ago, and they lasted for about
a year before they were toast.
They are a German company, the batteries are probably made in China.

Cheers
 
On Jan 9, 5:17 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Hi Folks,

At church we use several Ansmann Energy 16 chargers and Tenergy 9V
batteries. Long story short they've been good to us but lately not so
much. The charge indicators on the stations fade and it all seems not to
be all that reliable anymore. Fairly new NiMH batteries peter out in the
middle of a service and so on. No complaints, we got enough life out of
this setup. So, looking for a new solution here. We have to stay with 9V
because the (expensive) wireless mikes need these and I'd would like to
move to 7-cell instead of 6-cell. Read some good reviews about the
Maha/Powerex brand:

http://www.amazon.com/PowerEx-MH-C490F-DCW-Worldwide-Battery-Charger/...

They also have low discharge 9V 230mAh batteries which sounds nice.
However, I am not familiar with this brand. Maybe someone here is? Or
knows of even better systems?

Must be fully automatic, meaning stick the batteries in there no matter
what their remaining charge is and leave them in the charger until next
Sunday.

9V batteries with two LiIon cells in there are, of course, the ultimate
cat's meouw. But they seem not to be ready for prime time yet, I could
not find multi-bay chargers and I am afraid someone will accidentally
stick them into a regular charger and .. KABLAM.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
NEXcell seems pretty good for low self discharge. I used a couple AAAs
in a TV remote control. Still working today after 10 months on a
single charge. I see a 8.4 volt / 200mAh version here:

http://www.nexcellglobal.com/consumer.htm

-Bill
 
On Jan 9, 9:45 pm, "Martin Riddle" <martin_...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message

news:9n1lfhFofiU1@mid.individual.net...







"Joke"

What about Varta?
http://www.en.varta-consumer.com/en/Products/Rechargeables/Power-Accu...

Those are a bit marginal in capacity. Only 6 cells (so 8.4V) and
200mAh.

 **  8.4 / 1.2  = 7 cells.

   Perfect for any radio mic that use a 9V battery.

All batteries will have a limited lifetime.  I would say if you got
a
year or two out of them, your doing good.

** The OP is buying Chinese consumer level junk and expecting
professional results.

...  Phil

Rechargeable 9v's always seemed to be marginal.
But, we had used the Vartas (NiCd) years ago, and they lasted for about
a year before they were toast.
They are a German company, the batteries are probably made in China.

Cheers- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Varta or Vartas?

I thought Varta was owned by Rayovac (Spectrum Brands).
I recall reading in one of the Annual Reports that they kept the Varta
name around in Europe and 1 or 2 countries in South America simply for
reasons of name recognition.
Of course, that singular bright idea didn't help Spectrum very much,
which has a history of trashing various brands they acquire.

And in SA, believe it or not, carbon-zinc batteries rule (or at least
they did at the time!)
Probably the economy?

-mpm
 
Bill Bowden wrote:
On Jan 9, 5:17 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Hi Folks,

At church we use several Ansmann Energy 16 chargers and Tenergy 9V
batteries. Long story short they've been good to us but lately not so
much. The charge indicators on the stations fade and it all seems not to
be all that reliable anymore. Fairly new NiMH batteries peter out in the
middle of a service and so on. No complaints, we got enough life out of
this setup. So, looking for a new solution here. We have to stay with 9V
because the (expensive) wireless mikes need these and I'd would like to
move to 7-cell instead of 6-cell. Read some good reviews about the
Maha/Powerex brand:

http://www.amazon.com/PowerEx-MH-C490F-DCW-Worldwide-Battery-Charger/...

They also have low discharge 9V 230mAh batteries which sounds nice.
However, I am not familiar with this brand. Maybe someone here is? Or
knows of even better systems?

Must be fully automatic, meaning stick the batteries in there no matter
what their remaining charge is and leave them in the charger until next
Sunday.

9V batteries with two LiIon cells in there are, of course, the ultimate
cat's meouw. But they seem not to be ready for prime time yet, I could
not find multi-bay chargers and I am afraid someone will accidentally
stick them into a regular charger and .. KABLAM.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

NEXcell seems pretty good for low self discharge. I used a couple AAAs
in a TV remote control. Still working today after 10 months on a
single charge. I see a 8.4 volt / 200mAh version here:

http://www.nexcellglobal.com/consumer.htm
Thanks, Bill. I'll check those out but it's a bit confusing. There seem
to be four versions that look the same. 8.4V and 9.6V, and then both
either with 160mAh (which wouldn't be enough for us) and with 200mAh.
And they seem to have screwed up or at least mixed up the data in the
technical info tabs :)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 
On Jan 9, 8:17 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Hi Folks,

At church we use several Ansmann Energy 16 chargers and Tenergy 9V
batteries. Long story short they've been good to us but lately not so
much. The charge indicators on the stations fade and it all seems not to
be all that reliable anymore. Fairly new NiMH batteries peter out in the
middle of a service and so on. No complaints, we got enough life out of
this setup. So, looking for a new solution here. We have to stay with 9V
because the (expensive) wireless mikes need these and I'd would like to
move to 7-cell instead of 6-cell. Read some good reviews about the
Maha/Powerex brand:

http://www.amazon.com/PowerEx-MH-C490F-DCW-Worldwide-Battery-Charger/...

They also have low discharge 9V 230mAh batteries which sounds nice.
However, I am not familiar with this brand. Maybe someone here is? Or
knows of even better systems?

Must be fully automatic, meaning stick the batteries in there no matter
what their remaining charge is and leave them in the charger until next
Sunday.

9V batteries with two LiIon cells in there are, of course, the ultimate
cat's meouw. But they seem not to be ready for prime time yet, I could
not find multi-bay chargers and I am afraid someone will accidentally
stick them into a regular charger and .. KABLAM.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
What's your problem you can't refurbish the chargers? If they're not
fast charge, they're dirt simple fixed current sources on a timer.
 
Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Jan 9, 8:17 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Hi Folks,

At church we use several Ansmann Energy 16 chargers and Tenergy 9V
batteries. Long story short they've been good to us but lately not so
much. The charge indicators on the stations fade and it all seems not to
be all that reliable anymore. Fairly new NiMH batteries peter out in the
middle of a service and so on. No complaints, we got enough life out of
this setup. So, looking for a new solution here. We have to stay with 9V
because the (expensive) wireless mikes need these and I'd would like to
move to 7-cell instead of 6-cell. Read some good reviews about the
Maha/Powerex brand:

http://www.amazon.com/PowerEx-MH-C490F-DCW-Worldwide-Battery-Charger/...

They also have low discharge 9V 230mAh batteries which sounds nice.
However, I am not familiar with this brand. Maybe someone here is? Or
knows of even better systems?

Must be fully automatic, meaning stick the batteries in there no matter
what their remaining charge is and leave them in the charger until next
Sunday.

9V batteries with two LiIon cells in there are, of course, the ultimate
cat's meouw. But they seem not to be ready for prime time yet, I could
not find multi-bay chargers and I am afraid someone will accidentally
stick them into a regular charger and .. KABLAM.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

What's your problem you can't refurbish the chargers? If they're not
fast charge, they're dirt simple fixed current sources on a timer.

Not these. They are crammed with electronics, all uC controlled with
battery diagnostics and the whole enchilada. If I had a schematic I
could repair them. And I did repair one where somthing in the primary
switcher had blown. But those things don't seem to last and there comes
a point where repairing gets old. Also, it is absolutely no fun to find
out Sunday morning at 7:30am that all the batteries are dead and worship
service begins shortly. This happened three days ago :-(

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:36:31 -0800, Joerg wrote:

Not these. They are crammed with electronics, all uC controlled with
battery diagnostics and the whole enchilada. If I had a schematic I
could repair them. And I did repair one where somthing in the primary
switcher had blown. But those things don't seem to last and there comes
a point where repairing gets old. Also, it is absolutely no fun to find
out Sunday morning at 7:30am that all the batteries are dead and worship
service begins shortly. This happened three days ago :-(
They might be old NiCd chargers that fail to spot the Delta V on newer
NiMh cells, so that they keep charging forever until you switch them off
or the safety timer, if any, turns them off.

On 9V cells charge is trickier because you have one Delta V point for
cell, which means that if the charger is sensitive it may stop charging
when the first cell reaches the charge, and if it's not sensitive it
could overcharge the battery, frying it in the long time.

For 9V batteries I'd always go with a current limiter (C/10, max C/5)
plus timer.
 
On Jan 11, 6:36 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Jan 9, 8:17 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Hi Folks,

At church we use several Ansmann Energy 16 chargers and Tenergy 9V
batteries. Long story short they've been good to us but lately not so
much. The charge indicators on the stations fade and it all seems not to
be all that reliable anymore. Fairly new NiMH batteries peter out in the
middle of a service and so on. No complaints, we got enough life out of
this setup. So, looking for a new solution here. We have to stay with 9V
because the (expensive) wireless mikes need these and I'd would like to
move to 7-cell instead of 6-cell. Read some good reviews about the
Maha/Powerex brand:

http://www.amazon.com/PowerEx-MH-C490F-DCW-Worldwide-Battery-Charger/....

They also have low discharge 9V 230mAh batteries which sounds nice.
However, I am not familiar with this brand. Maybe someone here is? Or
knows of even better systems?

Must be fully automatic, meaning stick the batteries in there no matter
what their remaining charge is and leave them in the charger until next
Sunday.

9V batteries with two LiIon cells in there are, of course, the ultimate
cat's meouw. But they seem not to be ready for prime time yet, I could
not find multi-bay chargers and I am afraid someone will accidentally
stick them into a regular charger and .. KABLAM.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

What's your problem you can't refurbish the chargers? If they're not
fast charge, they're dirt simple fixed current sources on a timer.

Not these. They are crammed with electronics, all uC controlled with
battery diagnostics and the whole enchilada. If I had a schematic I
could repair them. And I did repair one where somthing in the primary
switcher had blown. But those things don't seem to last and there comes
a point where repairing gets old. Also, it is absolutely no fun to find
out Sunday morning at 7:30am that all the batteries are dead and worship
service begins shortly. This happened three days ago :-(

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
If you don't want sudden drop-outs, use conventional top brand
alkaline e.g. Duracell + or whatever they're called over there. Plus
you really should have some of these for back-up if it's that mission
critical. In my experience (in good quality radio mics) they last
plenty of time and fail a bit more slowly/gracefully than I would
expect a rechargeable to. Plus since your batteries will always be
reasonably new, you will get a good feel for how often you need to
replace them as part of a regular replacement schedule.
 
davew wrote:
On Jan 11, 6:36 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Jan 9, 8:17 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Hi Folks,
At church we use several Ansmann Energy 16 chargers and Tenergy 9V
batteries. Long story short they've been good to us but lately not so
much. The charge indicators on the stations fade and it all seems not to
be all that reliable anymore. Fairly new NiMH batteries peter out in the
middle of a service and so on. No complaints, we got enough life out of
this setup. So, looking for a new solution here. We have to stay with 9V
because the (expensive) wireless mikes need these and I'd would like to
move to 7-cell instead of 6-cell. Read some good reviews about the
Maha/Powerex brand:
http://www.amazon.com/PowerEx-MH-C490F-DCW-Worldwide-Battery-Charger/...
They also have low discharge 9V 230mAh batteries which sounds nice.
However, I am not familiar with this brand. Maybe someone here is? Or
knows of even better systems?
Must be fully automatic, meaning stick the batteries in there no matter
what their remaining charge is and leave them in the charger until next
Sunday.
9V batteries with two LiIon cells in there are, of course, the ultimate
cat's meouw. But they seem not to be ready for prime time yet, I could
not find multi-bay chargers and I am afraid someone will accidentally
stick them into a regular charger and .. KABLAM.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
What's your problem you can't refurbish the chargers? If they're not
fast charge, they're dirt simple fixed current sources on a timer.
Not these. They are crammed with electronics, all uC controlled with
battery diagnostics and the whole enchilada. If I had a schematic I
could repair them. And I did repair one where somthing in the primary
switcher had blown. But those things don't seem to last and there comes
a point where repairing gets old. Also, it is absolutely no fun to find
out Sunday morning at 7:30am that all the batteries are dead and worship
service begins shortly. This happened three days ago :-(

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

If you don't want sudden drop-outs, use conventional top brand
alkaline e.g. Duracell + or whatever they're called over there. Plus
you really should have some of these for back-up if it's that mission
critical. ...

We have them for backup but that gets expensive. Because some mikes are
rarely used but must be kept up. Then you remove a $1.50 battery and
must throw it out because the voltage won't tell you how much juice has
been taken out already.


... In my experience (in good quality radio mics) they last
plenty of time and fail a bit more slowly/gracefully than I would
expect a rechargeable to. Plus since your batteries will always be
reasonably new, you will get a good feel for how often you need to
replace them as part of a regular replacement schedule.

We had that in our earlier years. They would acutally last less than
NiMH and failure in the middle of service was just as bad.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 
asdf wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:36:31 -0800, Joerg wrote:

Not these. They are crammed with electronics, all uC controlled with
battery diagnostics and the whole enchilada. If I had a schematic I
could repair them. And I did repair one where somthing in the primary
switcher had blown. But those things don't seem to last and there comes
a point where repairing gets old. Also, it is absolutely no fun to find
out Sunday morning at 7:30am that all the batteries are dead and worship
service begins shortly. This happened three days ago :-(

They might be old NiCd chargers that fail to spot the Delta V on newer
NiMh cells, so that they keep charging forever until you switch them off
or the safety timer, if any, turns them off.
Those are very fancy uC-controlled chargers specifically designed for
NiMH. They cost north of $100 each.


On 9V cells charge is trickier because you have one Delta V point for
cell, which means that if the charger is sensitive it may stop charging
when the first cell reaches the charge, and if it's not sensitive it
could overcharge the battery, frying it in the long time.
Yup, they need to find out the cell number and then count the number of
delta-V events, plus time-out if they are too unequal. All not rocket
science but sometimes when I see charger designs my impression is that
for them a lot is like rocket science.


For 9V batteries I'd always go with a current limiter (C/10, max C/5)
plus timer.

That's a problem in a church as self-discharge in 9V NiMH is high. You'd
have some batteries that are in there 1wk and other maybe 8wks. Trying
to get a rotating scheme going is totally not feasible in such a scenario.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 
"Joerg" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:9n8lo1Flq2U1@mid.individual.net...
asdf wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:36:31 -0800, Joerg wrote:

Not these. They are crammed with electronics, all uC controlled with
battery diagnostics and the whole enchilada. If I had a schematic I
could repair them. And I did repair one where somthing in the
primary
switcher had blown. But those things don't seem to last and there
comes
a point where repairing gets old. Also, it is absolutely no fun to
find
out Sunday morning at 7:30am that all the batteries are dead and
worship
service begins shortly. This happened three days ago :-(

They might be old NiCd chargers that fail to spot the Delta V on
newer
NiMh cells, so that they keep charging forever until you switch them
off
or the safety timer, if any, turns them off.


Those are very fancy uC-controlled chargers specifically designed for
NiMH. They cost north of $100 each.


On 9V cells charge is trickier because you have one Delta V point for
cell, which means that if the charger is sensitive it may stop
charging
when the first cell reaches the charge, and if it's not sensitive it
could overcharge the battery, frying it in the long time.


Yup, they need to find out the cell number and then count the number
of
delta-V events, plus time-out if they are too unequal. All not rocket
science but sometimes when I see charger designs my impression is that
for them a lot is like rocket science.


For 9V batteries I'd always go with a current limiter (C/10, max C/5)
plus timer.


That's a problem in a church as self-discharge in 9V NiMH is high.
You'd
have some batteries that are in there 1wk and other maybe 8wks. Trying
to get a rotating scheme going is totally not feasible in such a
scenario.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Ok, so try Li-Poly. 520mah!
<http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/627506-REG/iPower_IP9V520_9V_Li_Polymer_520mAh_Battery.html>

4 pcs 500mah and charger...
<http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/501664-REG/iPower_FC9VX44K_FC_9VX44_Fast_Smart_9V.html>

They actually have a good track record from the reviews. BH Photo
carries good stuff.

Cheers
 
Martin Riddle wrote:
"Joerg" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:9n8lo1Flq2U1@mid.individual.net...
asdf wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:36:31 -0800, Joerg wrote:

Not these. They are crammed with electronics, all uC controlled with
battery diagnostics and the whole enchilada. If I had a schematic I
could repair them. And I did repair one where somthing in the
primary
switcher had blown. But those things don't seem to last and there
comes
a point where repairing gets old. Also, it is absolutely no fun to
find
out Sunday morning at 7:30am that all the batteries are dead and
worship
service begins shortly. This happened three days ago :-(
They might be old NiCd chargers that fail to spot the Delta V on
newer
NiMh cells, so that they keep charging forever until you switch them
off
or the safety timer, if any, turns them off.

Those are very fancy uC-controlled chargers specifically designed for
NiMH. They cost north of $100 each.


On 9V cells charge is trickier because you have one Delta V point for
cell, which means that if the charger is sensitive it may stop
charging
when the first cell reaches the charge, and if it's not sensitive it
could overcharge the battery, frying it in the long time.

Yup, they need to find out the cell number and then count the number
of
delta-V events, plus time-out if they are too unequal. All not rocket
science but sometimes when I see charger designs my impression is that
for them a lot is like rocket science.


For 9V batteries I'd always go with a current limiter (C/10, max C/5)
plus timer.

That's a problem in a church as self-discharge in 9V NiMH is high.
You'd
have some batteries that are in there 1wk and other maybe 8wks. Trying
to get a rotating scheme going is totally not feasible in such a
scenario.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Ok, so try Li-Poly. 520mah!
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/627506-REG/iPower_IP9V520_9V_Li_Polymer_520mAh_Battery.html

4 pcs 500mah and charger...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/501664-REG/iPower_FC9VX44K_FC_9VX44_Fast_Smart_9V.html

They actually have a good track record from the reviews. BH Photo
carries good stuff.
Thanks. Yes, BH is a good place, we've bought from them before. But
LiPoly is only 7.4V nominal for the usual stack of two. That's a tad
marginal for our mikes.

Anyhow, we just ordered this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817355041
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817355040

If they really hold the 300mAh minus 20% marketing glitz factor or
whatever we'd be really happy.

The other thing one has to keep in mind at non-techie places such as
churches is the occasional mishap. Like when someone sticks a LiPoly
battery or LiIon into a regular charger and *POOF*

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 
"Joerg" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:9n9f58FnsnU1@mid.individual.net...
Martin Riddle wrote:
"Joerg" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:9n8lo1Flq2U1@mid.individual.net...
asdf wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:36:31 -0800, Joerg wrote:

Not these. They are crammed with electronics, all uC controlled
with
battery diagnostics and the whole enchilada. If I had a schematic
I
could repair them. And I did repair one where somthing in the
primary
switcher had blown. But those things don't seem to last and there
comes
a point where repairing gets old. Also, it is absolutely no fun to
find
out Sunday morning at 7:30am that all the batteries are dead and
worship
service begins shortly. This happened three days ago :-(
They might be old NiCd chargers that fail to spot the Delta V on
newer
NiMh cells, so that they keep charging forever until you switch
them
off
or the safety timer, if any, turns them off.

Those are very fancy uC-controlled chargers specifically designed
for
NiMH. They cost north of $100 each.


On 9V cells charge is trickier because you have one Delta V point
for
cell, which means that if the charger is sensitive it may stop
charging
when the first cell reaches the charge, and if it's not sensitive
it
could overcharge the battery, frying it in the long time.

Yup, they need to find out the cell number and then count the number
of
delta-V events, plus time-out if they are too unequal. All not
rocket
science but sometimes when I see charger designs my impression is
that
for them a lot is like rocket science.


For 9V batteries I'd always go with a current limiter (C/10, max
C/5)
plus timer.

That's a problem in a church as self-discharge in 9V NiMH is high.
You'd
have some batteries that are in there 1wk and other maybe 8wks.
Trying
to get a rotating scheme going is totally not feasible in such a
scenario.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Ok, so try Li-Poly. 520mah!
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/627506-REG/iPower_IP9V520_9V_Li_Polymer_520mAh_Battery.html

4 pcs 500mah and charger...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/501664-REG/iPower_FC9VX44K_FC_9VX44_Fast_Smart_9V.html

They actually have a good track record from the reviews. BH Photo
carries good stuff.


Thanks. Yes, BH is a good place, we've bought from them before. But
LiPoly is only 7.4V nominal for the usual stack of two. That's a tad
marginal for our mikes.

Anyhow, we just ordered this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817355041
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817355040

If they really hold the 300mAh minus 20% marketing glitz factor or
whatever we'd be really happy.

The other thing one has to keep in mind at non-techie places such as
churches is the occasional mishap. Like when someone sticks a LiPoly
battery or LiIon into a regular charger and *POOF*

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
I'd like to see how those work out. After the not so good results from
the Tenergy batteries. ( I have the D's and AA's)
The Tenergy batteries suffer from self discharge from what I see. The
D's are working better than the AA's, but they are 9000mAh.
The Sanyo Eneloops turned out to be the best. It seems the higher
capacity NiMh cells have a higher self discharge rate, and rapidly loose
capacity. Which results in a short life.

Cheers
 
asdf wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:36:31 -0800, Joerg wrote:


Not these. They are crammed with electronics, all uC controlled with
battery diagnostics and the whole enchilada. If I had a schematic I
could repair them. And I did repair one where somthing in the primary
switcher had blown. But those things don't seem to last and there comes
a point where repairing gets old. Also, it is absolutely no fun to find
out Sunday morning at 7:30am that all the batteries are dead and worship
service begins shortly. This happened three days ago :-(


They might be old NiCd chargers that fail to spot the Delta V on newer
NiMh cells, so that they keep charging forever until you switch them off
or the safety timer, if any, turns them off.

On 9V cells charge is trickier because you have one Delta V point for
cell, which means that if the charger is sensitive it may stop charging
when the first cell reaches the charge, and if it's not sensitive it
could overcharge the battery, frying it in the long time.

For 9V batteries I'd always go with a current limiter (C/10, max C/5)
plus timer.
Don't know about 9V batteries, but for 6 cells NiCd or NiMh I've
had great success with C/10 then taper to ~C/40 when Vset is
reached. I tried some 9V rechargeables way back when and gave
up on them. Maybe they're better these days?

Ed
 
On a sunny day (Thu, 12 Jan 2012 22:56:01 -0500) it happened "Martin Riddle"
<martin_rid@verizon.net> wrote in <jeoa0o$uvo$1@dont-email.me>:

The Sanyo Eneloops turned out to be the best.
I can confirm that,
I have 6 AAA in use some full discharge / charged every day.
They also hold charge, for example the 2 in my wireless keyboard
last several month,


It seems the higher
capacity NiMh cells have a higher self discharge rate, and rapidly loose
capacity. Which results in a short life.
Right Duracell AA 2500 mA hr (camera) 'auto discharges' in a few days!
Duracell smaller capacity AA lasts many weeks.

I never had a good 9V rechargeable.
IIRC the last one was Nicad.
These days if I want a new 9V battery I buy a Chinese multimeter...
Joerg should try that :)
 
On 01/12/2012 12:59 PM, Joerg wrote:
davew wrote:
On Jan 11, 6:36 pm, Joerg<inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Jan 9, 8:17 pm, Joerg<inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Hi Folks,
At church we use several Ansmann Energy 16 chargers and Tenergy 9V
batteries. Long story short they've been good to us but lately not so
much. The charge indicators on the stations fade and it all seems not to
be all that reliable anymore. Fairly new NiMH batteries peter out in the
middle of a service and so on. No complaints, we got enough life out of
this setup. So, looking for a new solution here. We have to stay with 9V
because the (expensive) wireless mikes need these and I'd would like to
move to 7-cell instead of 6-cell. Read some good reviews about the
Maha/Powerex brand:
http://www.amazon.com/PowerEx-MH-C490F-DCW-Worldwide-Battery-Charger/...
They also have low discharge 9V 230mAh batteries which sounds nice.
However, I am not familiar with this brand. Maybe someone here is? Or
knows of even better systems?
Must be fully automatic, meaning stick the batteries in there no matter
what their remaining charge is and leave them in the charger until next
Sunday.
9V batteries with two LiIon cells in there are, of course, the ultimate
cat's meouw. But they seem not to be ready for prime time yet, I could
not find multi-bay chargers and I am afraid someone will accidentally
stick them into a regular charger and .. KABLAM.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
What's your problem you can't refurbish the chargers? If they're not
fast charge, they're dirt simple fixed current sources on a timer.
Not these. They are crammed with electronics, all uC controlled with
battery diagnostics and the whole enchilada. If I had a schematic I
could repair them. And I did repair one where somthing in the primary
switcher had blown. But those things don't seem to last and there comes
a point where repairing gets old. Also, it is absolutely no fun to find
out Sunday morning at 7:30am that all the batteries are dead and worship
service begins shortly. This happened three days ago :-(

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

If you don't want sudden drop-outs, use conventional top brand
alkaline e.g. Duracell + or whatever they're called over there. Plus
you really should have some of these for back-up if it's that mission
critical. ...


We have them for backup but that gets expensive. Because some mikes are
rarely used but must be kept up. Then you remove a $1.50 battery and
must throw it out because the voltage won't tell you how much juice has
been taken out already.


... In my experience (in good quality radio mics) they last
plenty of time and fail a bit more slowly/gracefully than I would
expect a rechargeable to. Plus since your batteries will always be
reasonably new, you will get a good feel for how often you need to
replace them as part of a regular replacement schedule.


We had that in our earlier years. They would acutally last less than
NiMH and failure in the middle of service was just as bad.
What we used to do was to store the mics without batteries, and cram a
new one in every time it was used.

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
 

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