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Can you name _one single poster_ who managed to acquire any IP of anyDo you see any problems with a moving version?
YES !
Well?
Don't keep us settin' on the edges of our chairs!
Tell us them problems!
VAST problems.
But are these problems as vast as Al Gore?
�Basic to physics which you clearly have never understood,
Don't you want to enlighten all of Poo Bear's friends?
so it's largely pointless trying to explain why.
Especisally if you don't know.
---
Which is precisely why you try to get others inflamed to the point where
they'll say: "Yes, dammit, I _do_ know!" and then they spill the beans
But there is no trick or IP here.and you can pretend you knew the trick all along and owe them nothing.
Dodge 1.Since battery costs are 2X grid costs, even 33% efficiency would be
competitive with charging stations.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_energy_transfer#Size.2C_distanc...
Wireless electric energy transfer for experimentally powering electric
automobiles and buses is a higher power application (>10kW) of
resonant inductive energy transfer. High power levels are required for
rapid recharging and high energy transfer efficiency is required both
for operational economy and to avoid negative environmental impact of
the system. An experimental electrified roadway test track built circa
1990 achieved 80% energy efficiency while recharging the battery of a
prototype bus at a specially equipped bus stop
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Doesn't sound like they were charging a moving vehicle.
Do you see any problems with a moving version? ?
---
Yes, many.
Which are?
Dodge 2.Not that it would
necessarily be cost effective but of anything in thermo or fields that
would make it impossible or very difficult?
---
Yes
Which are?
You're trying to fly before you learn to crawl.
If you took thermo or fields, you'ld know why an engineer doesn't needFor starters, tell us what you think that "magnetic induction cable" and
"pickup coil" you were touting earlier look like and how you think
they'd work, and then maybe, if you're polite, we can go on from there.
Whatever happened to that defamation lawsuit??If it's
stopped, why not used a connector, and get 100% transfer efficiency?
For that matter why not just put a couple rails in the pavement like
subways? ?
---
Grasping at straws, are we?
You certainly are when you keep trying to fake a tech background.
You seem to think that just by endlessly parroting lies they'll suddenly
turn into truth.
First show us you are bright enough to do even one lane.Let's say we have this electric car which can tool along at 60MPH while
using 20HP worth of electricity supplied by the grid.
That's 15kW, so if we pick some more-or-less "safe" voltage on the
rails, say 1kV, that means the car will present a 15A load across the
rails. ?Multiply that by, say, 10000 cars
How many miles would it take for 100000 cars to be spaced, each with a
safe following distance?
Depends on the number of lanes,
Try working with a plausible number and then everything can bethe speed at which the cars were moving,
Just admit it: You are too clueless to even set up the problem.the reaction times of the drivers, and the phase of the moon.
For 150 megawatts with spacing of 100 cars/mile, about 40 feetBut that's your part of the problem, so get off your ignorant ass and
try to work it out.
and the load becomes 150000
amperes.
What is the spacing between the sub stations feeding the road?
You're the one who thinks it's a good idea,
Dodge 3.and that's your part of the
problem, so get off your ignorant ass and try to work it out.
---
Put another way, that's 150 Megawatts, and that's just what
the cars are eating up.
Instead of paying $75,000/hour for $5/gallon fuel they could pay
15,000 for juice, savings of $60,000/hour or $6/hr/car.
Dodge 4.The savings for a trucker would be over $50,000/year.
That comes from the spread sheet.On top of that will be the I�R losses in the
rails themselves.
What's the conductivity of the rails?
Depends on how much loss you're prepared to suffer in the rails.
Only because of the recession.A vac truck could come by every so often to keep trash from
shorting it out. ?In heavy downpours, ice or snow you burn fuel.
Now _that's_ funny!
---
Is it as funny as burning $10/gallon fuel 100% of the time?
---
Much funnier, since gas is now about $2/gallon
---Do you see any problems with a moving version?
YES !
Well?
Don't keep us settin' on the edges of our chairs!
Tell us them problems!
VAST problems.
But are these problems as vast as Al Gore?
?Basic to physics which you clearly have never understood,
Don't you want to enlighten all of Poo Bear's friends?
so it's largely pointless trying to explain why.
Especisally if you don't know.
---
Which is precisely why you try to get others inflamed to the point where
they'll say: "Yes, dammit, I _do_ know!" and then they spill the beans
Can you name _one single poster_ who managed to acquire any IP of any
value with that tactic?
---and you can pretend you knew the trick all along and owe them nothing.
But there is no trick or IP here.
---You cannot patent the laws of physics that allow or prohibit moving
induction.
---For starters, tell us what you think that "magnetic induction cable" and
"pickup coil" you were touting earlier look like and how you think
they'd work, and then maybe, if you're polite, we can go on from there.
If you took thermo or fields, you'ld know why an engineer doesn't need
to know what a device looks like to discuss it.
---That is how I know that you never took thermo and why you look so
ignorant posting to any threads involving thermo.
---?If it's
stopped, why not used a connector, and get 100% transfer efficiency?
For that matter why not just put a couple rails in the pavement like
subways? ?
---
Grasping at straws, are we?
You certainly are when you keep trying to fake a tech background.
---You seem to think that just by endlessly parroting lies they'll suddenly
turn into truth.
Whatever happened to that defamation lawsuit?
---If you don't defend your "good" name everyone is going to know, er
think, that you never took any thermo courses and you look like a
dunce trying to discuss indunction.
---Let's say we have this electric car which can tool along at 60MPH while
using 20HP worth of electricity supplied by the grid.
That's 15kW, so if we pick some more-or-less "safe" voltage on the
rails, say 1kV, that means the car will present a 15A load across the
rails. ?Multiply that by, say, 10000 cars
How many miles would it take for 100000 cars to be spaced, each with a
safe following distance?
Depends on the number of lanes,
First show us you are bright enough to do even one lane.
---the speed at which the cars were moving,
Try working with a plausible number and then everything can be
adjusted later.
---the reaction times of the drivers, and the phase of the moon.
Just admit it: You are too clueless to even set up the problem.
---But that's your part of the problem, so get off your ignorant ass and
try to work it out.
and the load becomes 150000
amperes.
What is the spacing between the sub stations feeding the road?
You're the one who thinks it's a good idea,
For 150 megawatts with spacing of 100 cars/mile, about 40 feet
following distance, then you're talking a substation every hundred
miles.
Now why would anyone want to space substations that far apart?
---Are you really this stupid in real life or do you just act that way
here?
---and that's your part of the
problem, so get off your ignorant ass and try to work it out.
---
Put another way, that's 150 Megawatts, and that's just what
the cars are eating up.
Instead of paying $75,000/hour for $5/gallon fuel they could pay
15,000 for juice, savings of $60,000/hour or $6/hr/car.
---Dodge 3.
The savings for a trucker would be over $50,000/year.
---Dodge 4.
On top of that will be the I?R losses in the
rails themselves.
What's the conductivity of the rails?
Depends on how much loss you're prepared to suffer in the rails.
That comes from the spread sheet.
---That's how IEORs find the minimum cost _overall_. They spreadsheet.
You know what an IEOR is or are you just plain ignorant of
_everything_ in tech?
---A vac truck could come by every so often to keep trash from
shorting it out. ?In heavy downpours, ice or snow you burn fuel.
Now _that's_ funny!
---
Is it as funny as burning $10/gallon fuel 100% of the time?
---
Much funnier, since gas is now about $2/gallon
Only because of the recession.
You have any clue as to how that guy with the nicely trimmed facial
hair at the fed is going to deal with the 15 trillion dolar debt, 1
trillion deficit and bailouts?
Depends on technology (chemistry - variation thereof etc) , depth ofSince battery costs are 2X grid costs
Please explain. A battery is a capital investment for energy storage.
How many times can the battery be cycled before it degrades and needs
to be replaced?
I would see leasing with guaranteed replacements as capacity falls, as theGrid electricity is paying for energy as you use it.
Most batteries are so expensive they will need financing
That doesn't address my initial point.and people will be paying as they use the battery.
And the primary has to be run constantly with associated losses even when noBret_E_Cahill@yahoo.com wrote:
Do you see any problems with a moving version? Not that it would
necessarily be cost effective but of anything in thermo or fields that
would make it impossible or very difficult?
The field shape would be tricky, especially since a vehicle wouldn't
always be in the exact center of a lane. And a road has to be pretty
thick to be strong enough to support trucks, so getting a small air
gap will be difficult. A few thousand miles of pole pieces and coils
and electronic drivers might get a tad expensive, too. Maintenance
would be interesting.
If you have a workable topology in mind, post a sketch and some
numbers. Words are cheap.
And will work a lot better still in the near future. The target for 'newSilly idea, when gasoline engines work so well.
Do you realise what effect that would have on the number of potholes (and theirThe technology to precisely position a car in a lane with an over ride
option has been trivial for quite some time.
Depends what they're made of doesn't it ? I believe the London Underground usesJohn Larking wrote:
On top of that will be the I2R losses in the rails themselves.
What's the conductivity of the rails?
But the primary has to be constantly energised regardless of loading andA very different subject is non-contact of energy to individual
vechicles on a roadway.and not on a guideway or on tracks. The US
Federal Government as part of their IVHS program has been exploring
this for now well over 20 years, without much evidence of success thus
far. This project also addresses the driverless operation of
individual vehicles.
Surprising, the wireless transfer of operating traction energy to the
individual vehicles is not, as I understand it, the major obstacle,
but is problematic. As I understand it, the greates coefficient of
coupling thus obtained is about 15%, which is close to the figure
obtain by your inductively charged electric toothbrush. Energy
efficiency is not the issue here, since energy that is not coupled to
a load is not lost.
That's a minor issue.Bret Cahill wrote:
The technology to precisely position a car in a lane with an over ride
option has been trivial for quite some time.
Do you realise what effect that would have on the number of potholes (and their
location) ?
Graham
What was the IP?Do you see any problems with a moving version?
YES !
Well?
Don't keep us settin' on the edges of our chairs!
Tell us them problems!
VAST problems.
But are these problems as vast as Al Gore?
?Basic to physics which you clearly have never understood,
Don't you want to enlighten all of Poo Bear's friends?
so it's largely pointless trying to explain why.
Especisally if you don't know.
---
Which is precisely why you try to get others inflamed to the point where
they'll say: "Yes, dammit, I _do_ know!" and then they spill the beans
Can you name _one single poster_ who managed to acquire any IP of any
value with that tactic?
Yes; you.
If the ideas don't work, then how can there be any IP?and you can pretend you knew the trick all along and owe them nothing.
But there is no trick or IP here.
Sure there is.
You keep lusting after clues you can use to support your untenable
position
With what?and hoping you'll get slapped in the face with them.
But I thought you proved it wouldn't work. The patent office is clearYou cannot patent the laws of physics that allow or prohibit moving
induction.
You seem to have a remarkable grasp of the obvious, and while the laws
can't be patented, novel schemes which use moving inductors for one
purpose or another _can_ be patented.
Actually it's on the ground.Your pie-in-the-sky magnetic cable and pickup coil scheme
Then you need to get a Pell Grant, study engineering and explain whymight be a
candidate if it weren't for all the pitfalls surrounding it
Now when would _that_ be? At 3 am?And the primary has to be run constantly with associated losses even when no
load is present !
The efficiency go up 10% while the cost of fuel goes up 1,000%Silly idea, when gasoline engines work so well.
And will work a lot better still in the near future. The target for 'new
generation' diesels for autos is 40% for example.
Who suggested it did?For starters, tell us what you think that "magnetic induction cable" and
"pickup coil" you were touting earlier look like and how you think
they'd work, and then maybe, if you're polite, we can go on from there..
If you took thermo or fields, you'ld know why an engineer doesn't need
to know what a device looks like to discuss it.
"Looks like" doesn't always mean physically,
If you are interested in that, feel free to start another thread.Also, you dodged the "how you think they'd work" part.
Not just information but ideas as well.Looking for more free info, huh?
Certainly not from a dunce who has never studied thermodynamics orIt ain't gonna work.
Let's!That is how I know that you never took thermo and why you look so
ignorant posting to any threads involving thermo.
Let's see...
You already proved that several times, the most spectacular proof wasNow, in order to prove that I'm literate in thermodynamics
Certainly not from you.you're trying
to get me to cast a few pearls into your sty so you can say they were
always yours.
You need to be posting to alt.junkyardcomputers.Getting close?
Certainly not from you.?If it's
stopped, why not used a connector, and get 100% transfer efficiency?
For that matter why not just put a couple rails in the pavement like
subways? ?
Grasping at straws, are we?
You certainly are when you keep trying to fake a tech background.
Another attempt at getting some free tech data?
Bluffing about a defamation suit just makes you look even more like aYou seem to think that just by endlessly parroting lies they'll suddenly
turn into truth.
Whatever happened to that defamation lawsuit?
All in good time...
Maybe you can obtain gainful employment checking typos. Faking likeIf you don't defend your "good" name everyone is going to know, er
think, that you never took any thermo courses and you look like a
dunce trying to discuss indunction.
"Indunction"??? LOL, that's rich!
It's too late to try that. You already postured that you were goingThere's no need for a defense since I've been around long enough and
done enough work here that no one thinks I'm a phony.
Then your defamation case should be easy to win.You, on the other hand, seem bound and determined to destroy what little
credibility you may have started out with with every word you type.
Can you even make up your empty head if you are going to sue forIf that's your intent you'll be pleased to know that it's working.
You cannot even make up you mind as to the number of lanes.Let's say we have this electric car which can tool along at 60MPH while
using 20HP worth of electricity supplied by the grid.
That's 15kW, so if we pick some more-or-less "safe" voltage on the
rails, say 1kV, that means the car will present a 15A load across the
rails. ?Multiply that by, say, 10000 cars
How many miles would it take for 100000 cars to be spaced, each with a
safe following distance?
Depends on the number of lanes,
First show us you are bright enough to do even one lane.
Geez, Bret, I set the problem up,
Above you say 60 mph.the speed at which the cars were moving,
Here, we'll try again:the reaction times of the drivers, and the phase of the moon.
Just admit it: You are too clueless to even set up the problem.
Hmmm...
Necessary for WHAT?and the load becomes 150000
amperes.
What is the spacing between the sub stations feeding the road?
You're the one who thinks it's a good idea,
For 150 megawatts with spacing of 100 cars/mile, about 40 feet
following distance, then you're talking a substation every hundred
miles.
Now why would anyone want to space substations that far apart?
For the single-lane, one-way road you describe, because that's all that
would be necessary, assuming no losses in the rails.
That's the distance you get with _your_ assumption of 150 MW.Are you really this stupid in real life or do you just act that way
here?
Me???
I didn't dream up that nutzoid 100 mile stretch of road
You'ld never make it through an engineering program. You are just tooPut another way, that's 150 Megawatts, and that's just what
the cars are eating up.
Instead of paying $75,000/hour for $5/gallon fuel they could pay
15,000 for juice, savings of $60,000/hour or $6/hr/car.
Well, let's see...
If:
C = fuel cost= $5.00 per gallon
P = vehicle power consumption = 20HP = 15kW
R = vehicle speed = 30MPH
Q = vehicle fuel consumption = 20MPG
n = number of vehicles = 10000
D = distance traveled = 100 miles.
T = time
Then for a single liquid-fueled vehicle the cost per mile would be:
C $5PG $5
--- = ------- = ----- = $0.25 per mile
Q 20MPG 20M
So, 100 miles would cost 100 times that, or: $25
For 10000 vehicles the cost would be 10000 times that: $250,000
Since you've specified the vehicle speed as 30MPH, the 100 mile trip
would take:
D 100mi
T = --- = ------- = 3.3 hours
V 30MPH
and the cost of fuel, per hour, would be:
$250000
-------- = $75000 per hour.
3.3H
For the electric, at $0.10/kWH, we'll have a 20HP motor dissipating 15kW
for 3.3 hours, which is 49.5kWH.
At $0.10 per kilowatt-hour that comes to $4.95 for the 100 mile trip,
which is $49,500 for the 10000 car fleet, or $15000.
So your numbers seem to be correct,
Just write your congressman and senators that you want some scientistsbut your cockamamie scheme is still
fatally flawed since you have no clue as to how to make it work or how
to bring it to fruition.
Where do frogs and wings appear on Excel?Dodge 3.
The savings for a trucker would be over $50,000/year.
If frogs had wings then beggars would ride...
Stay tuned. In the meantime, Email them affidavits for yourDodge 4.
On top of that will be the I?R losses in the
rails themselves.
What's the conductivity of the rails?
Depends on how much loss you're prepared to suffer in the rails.
That comes from the spread sheet.
So let's see something.
That doesn't change the fact that the battery is a consumable justGrid electricity is paying for energy as you use it.
Most batteries are so expensive they will need financing
I would see leasing with guaranteed replacements as capacity falls, as the
only practical solution.
That's why replacement costs must be treated as a consumable just likeBTW, a battery car that will do say 50 miles on a new battery may go only
35 miles on one that's about to be changed.
Who cares? It ain't gonna happen unless the _overall_ costs areand people will be paying as they use the battery.
That doesn't address my initial point.
So you must replace the battery every so often. That cost must beSince battery costs are 2X grid costs
Please explain. A battery is a capital investment for energy storage.
How many times can the battery be cycled before it degrades and needs
to be replaced?
Depends on technology (chemistry - variation thereof etc) , depth of
discharge, rate of discharge, rate of recharge etc etc.
As low as 300 certainly.
Now I see what you mean. You mean as in spread over the economic life of theSince battery costs are 2X grid costs
Please explain. A battery is a capital investment for energy storage.
How many times can the battery be cycled before it degrades and needs
to be replaced?
Depends on technology (chemistry - variation thereof etc) , depth of
discharge, rate of discharge, rate of recharge etc etc.
As low as 300 certainly.
So you must replace the battery every so often. That cost must be
spread sheeted just like electricity.
They are both consumables with the battery cost being at least 2X that
of the electricity.
Believe it or not, I do actually agree about these points.Grid electricity is paying for energy as you use it.
Most batteries are so expensive they will need financing
I would see leasing with guaranteed replacements as capacity falls, as the
only practical solution.
That doesn't change the fact that the battery is a consumable just
like the electricity that passes through it.
BTW, a battery car that will do say 50 miles on a new battery may go only
35 miles on one that's about to be changed.
That's why replacement costs must be treated as a consumable just like
electricity.
and people will be paying as they use the battery.
That doesn't address my initial point.
Who cares? It ain't gonna happen unless the _overall_ costs are
spreadsheeted.
Are you going to power an entire interstate so that a few cars or buses can run ?And the primary has to be run constantly with associated losses even when no
load is present !
Now when would _that_ be? At 3 am?
This where your lack of engineering knowledge lets you down ! You got it 100% backActually the efficiency remain high even with poor "coupling" simply
because it doesn't draw much current at low or no load.
Eh ?For starters, tell us what you think that "magnetic induction cable" and
"pickup coil" you were touting earlier look like and how you think
they'd work, and then maybe, if you're polite, we can go on from there.
If you took thermo or fields, you'ld know why an engineer doesn't need
to know what a device looks like to discuss it.
"Looks like" doesn't always mean physically,
Who suggested it did?
Here, we'll try again:
If you took thermo or fields, you'ld know why it isn't necessary for
someone with a background in that area to know what a device looks
like to discuss it.