60 Hz RF

[John Fields]

On Tue, 3 May 2011 13:13:11 -0700 (PDT), Joe Snodgrass
<joe.snod@yahoo.com> wrote:

On May 3, 9:41 am, George Herold <gher...@teachspin.com> wrote:
On May 3, 8:46 am, Joe Snodgrass <joe.s...@yahoo.com> wrote:

What do you suppose would be a good way for a person to generate high
intensity RF at 60 Hz?  TIA

How about a big coil plugged into the wall socket?

Congratulations, you've just solved one of the most important problems
in the history of power electronics.

---
Actually, he hasn't, since he only presented half of the solution.

What would be required, in addition to the coil, would be a capacitor
with a reactance equal and opposite to the reactance of the coil at
60Hz in order to make the system resonant and generate the EM field
via the radiation resistance of the circuit.

--
JF

 

[TTman]

"Joe Snodgrass" <joe.snod@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b10e602f-23ba-4cbf-be87-87adb8bace9a@w10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...

What do you suppose would be a good way for a person to generate high
intensity RF at 60 Hz? TIA

The best way is to stick your fingers in an outlet socket. Your body makes a
great aerial at 60Hz. We do it all the time in the UK, but it's not as
efficient as we are on 50Hz...

 

[Joel Koltner]

"TTman" <pcw1.cad@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:ipptar$nf5$1@dont-email.me...

The best way is to stick your fingers in an outlet socket. Your body makes a
great aerial at 60Hz. We do it all the time in the UK, but it's not as
efficient as we are on 50Hz...

True, but supposedly it's easier to let go when you need to mind the chickens
or somesuch at 50Hz than 60Hz...

In Kaiser's "Electromagnetic Compatibility Handbook," he does include the
human body in an (otherwise?) completely serious table of antennas and their
various properties!

(You guys might not have access to this book, as being upwards of 4" thick and
heavy enough to double as a hammer it's probably classified as a weapon over
there... )

 

[Joe Snodgrass]

On May 3, 9:06 am, Spehro Pefhany <speffS...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat>
wrote:

On Tue, 3 May 2011 05:46:55 -0700 (PDT), the renowned Joe Snodgrass

joe.s...@yahoo.com> wrote:

What do you suppose would be a good way for a person to generate high
intensity RF at 60 Hz?  TIA

Half-wave dipole fed by an amplifier?

Calculate the wavelength, and you'll see why that's a bad idea.

 

[Joe Snodgrass]

On May 3, 9:41 am, George Herold <gher...@teachspin.com> wrote:

On May 3, 8:46 am, Joe Snodgrass <joe.s...@yahoo.com> wrote:

What do you suppose would be a good way for a person to generate high
intensity RF at 60 Hz?  TIA

How about a big coil plugged into the wall socket?

Congratulations, you've just solved one of the most important problems
in the history of power electronics. What part of the world are you
in?

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 03 May 2011 15:56:55 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Tue, 3 May 2011 13:13:11 -0700 (PDT), Joe Snodgrass
joe.snod@yahoo.com> wrote:

On May 3, 9:41 am, George Herold <gher...@teachspin.com> wrote:
On May 3, 8:46 am, Joe Snodgrass <joe.s...@yahoo.com> wrote:

What do you suppose would be a good way for a person to generate high
intensity RF at 60 Hz?  TIA

How about a big coil plugged into the wall socket?

Congratulations, you've just solved one of the most important problems
in the history of power electronics.

---
Actually, he hasn't, since he only presented half of the solution.

What would be required, in addition to the coil, would be a capacitor
with a reactance equal and opposite to the reactance of the coil at
60Hz in order to make the system resonant and generate the EM field
via the radiation resistance of the circuit.

A coil doesn't have to be resonated to radiate EM waves. Resonating it
just reduces the load on the AC power supply.

But "high intensity" is another matter. Hard to do with a
reasonable-sized coil, at 60 Hz.


John

 

[John Fields]

On Tue, 03 May 2011 15:35:33 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 15:56:55 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Tue, 3 May 2011 13:13:11 -0700 (PDT), Joe Snodgrass
joe.snod@yahoo.com> wrote:

On May 3, 9:41 am, George Herold <gher...@teachspin.com> wrote:
On May 3, 8:46 am, Joe Snodgrass <joe.s...@yahoo.com> wrote:

What do you suppose would be a good way for a person to generate high
intensity RF at 60 Hz?  TIA

How about a big coil plugged into the wall socket?

Congratulations, you've just solved one of the most important problems
in the history of power electronics.

---
Actually, he hasn't, since he only presented half of the solution.

What would be required, in addition to the coil, would be a capacitor
with a reactance equal and opposite to the reactance of the coil at
60Hz in order to make the system resonant and generate the EM field
via the radiation resistance of the circuit.

A coil doesn't have to be resonated to radiate EM waves. Resonating it
just reduces the load on the AC power supply.

---
Not true.

For a given power output, if the circuit is parallel resonant, then
the power supply has to supply the voltage and current required to
drive the tank's resistance.

If it's series resonant, the power supply still has to supply the
voltage and current required to drive the tank's resistance.
---

But "high intensity" is another matter. Hard to do with a
reasonable-sized coil, at 60 Hz.

---
What's "reasonable sized", and what's "high intensity"?

--
JF

 

[John KD5YI]

On 5/3/2011 7:39 PM, John Fields wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 15:35:33 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 15:56:55 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Tue, 3 May 2011 13:13:11 -0700 (PDT), Joe Snodgrass
joe.snod@yahoo.com> wrote:

On May 3, 9:41 am, George Herold<gher...@teachspin.com> wrote:
On May 3, 8:46 am, Joe Snodgrass<joe.s...@yahoo.com> wrote:

What do you suppose would be a good way for a person to generate high
intensity RF at 60 Hz? TIA

How about a big coil plugged into the wall socket?

Congratulations, you've just solved one of the most important problems
in the history of power electronics.

---
Actually, he hasn't, since he only presented half of the solution.

What would be required, in addition to the coil, would be a capacitor
with a reactance equal and opposite to the reactance of the coil at
60Hz in order to make the system resonant and generate the EM field
via the radiation resistance of the circuit.

A coil doesn't have to be resonated to radiate EM waves. Resonating it
just reduces the load on the AC power supply.

---
Not true.

I believe that is true, John. The field is radiated by passing current
through the *radiation resistance*. It doesn't care how the current
comes to be, whether it is due to circulating current or from a source
which can supply the current without resonance.

For a given power output, if the circuit is parallel resonant, then
the power supply has to supply the voltage and current required to
drive the tank's resistance.

Yes, the tank's resistance plus radiation resistance.

If it's series resonant, the power supply still has to supply the
voltage and current required to drive the tank's resistance.
---

Yes, the tank's resistance plus radiation resistance.

But "high intensity" is another matter. Hard to do with a
reasonable-sized coil, at 60 Hz.

---
What's "reasonable sized", and what's "high intensity"?

Well, check the radiation resistance vs the system's resistance. In the
case of a 60 Hz loop of "reasonable dimensions", you will probably find
the radiation resistance to be in the micro-ohms or less. This will give
nano-percent efficiency.

By the way, I am assuming we are discussing transverse electromagnetic
radiation.

 

[Joe Snodgrass]

On May 3, 6:35 pm, John Larkin
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 15:56:55 -0500, John Fields



jfie...@austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Tue, 3 May 2011 13:13:11 -0700 (PDT), Joe Snodgrass
joe.s...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On May 3, 9:41 am, George Herold <gher...@teachspin.com> wrote:
On May 3, 8:46 am, Joe Snodgrass <joe.s...@yahoo.com> wrote:

What do you suppose would be a good way for a person to generate high
intensity RF at 60 Hz?  TIA

How about a big coil plugged into the wall socket?

Congratulations, you've just solved one of the most important problems
in the history of power electronics.

---
Actually, he hasn't, since he only presented half of the solution.

What would be required, in addition to the coil, would be a capacitor
with a reactance equal and opposite to the reactance of the coil at
60Hz in order to make the system resonant and generate the EM field
via the radiation resistance of the circuit.

A coil doesn't have to be resonated to radiate EM waves. Resonating it
just reduces the load on the AC power supply.

But "high intensity" is another matter. Hard to do with a
reasonable-sized coil, at 60 Hz.

If all the circuit parameters are known, what equation is used to
calculate the RF power emitted? TIA.

 

[Rich Grise]

John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 15:56:55 -0500, John Fields
On Tue, 3 May 2011 13:13:11 -0700 (PDT), Joe Snodgrass
On May 3, 9:41 am, George Herold <gher...@teachspin.com> wrote:
On May 3, 8:46 am, Joe Snodgrass <joe.s...@yahoo.com> wrote:

What do you suppose would be a good way for a person to generate high
intensity RF at 60 Hz?  TIA

How about a big coil plugged into the wall socket?

Congratulations, you've just solved one of the most important problems
in the history of power electronics.

Actually, he hasn't, since he only presented half of the solution.

What would be required, in addition to the coil, would be a capacitor
with a reactance equal and opposite to the reactance of the coil at
60Hz in order to make the system resonant and generate the EM field
via the radiation resistance of the circuit.

A coil doesn't have to be resonated to radiate EM waves. Resonating it
just reduces the load on the AC power supply.

But "high intensity" is another matter. Hard to do with a
reasonable-sized coil, at 60 Hz.

Who said anything about "reasonable?" ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Uwe Hercksen]

John Larkin schrieb:

A coil doesn't have to be resonated to radiate EM waves. Resonating it
just reduces the load on the AC power supply.

Hello,

a coil would radiate a (strong) magnetic field with 60 Hz, but a very
weak electric field. For an efective radiation of EM waves, you would
need the electric and magnetic fields together, with balanced strength.
Otherwise the EM waves could not work over larger distances.

Bye

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

On Wed, 4 May 2011 05:26:23 -0700 (PDT), Mark <makolber@yahoo.com> wrote:

On May 4, 5:02 am, Uwe Hercksen <herck...@mew.uni-erlangen.de> wrote:
John Larkin schrieb:

A coil doesn't have to be resonated to radiate EM waves. Resonating it
just reduces the load on the AC power supply.

Hello,

a coil would radiate a (strong) magnetic field with 60 Hz, but a very
weak electric field. For an efective radiation of EM waves, you would
need the electric and magnetic fields together, with balanced strength.
Otherwise the EM waves could not work over larger distances.

Bye

thought experiment..

take a small coil with a large current that radiates as you say a
strong magnetic field but a weak electric field.

right next to it, put a small probe with a high voltage that radiates
a strong electric field but a weak magnetic field.

Phased correctly these two should be an efficient EM radiator....

But they are not...

Mark

On a side note...

A single pulse into a coil inside an armor case will shrink coins just
fine!

The coil evaporates, but the coin shrinks from the magnetic force.

http://205.243.100.155/frames/shrinkergallery.html

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 03 May 2011 22:23:58 -0700, Rich Grise
<richg@example.net.invalid> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 03 May 2011 15:56:55 -0500, John Fields
On Tue, 3 May 2011 13:13:11 -0700 (PDT), Joe Snodgrass
On May 3, 9:41 am, George Herold <gher...@teachspin.com> wrote:
On May 3, 8:46 am, Joe Snodgrass <joe.s...@yahoo.com> wrote:

What do you suppose would be a good way for a person to generate high
intensity RF at 60 Hz?  TIA

How about a big coil plugged into the wall socket?

Congratulations, you've just solved one of the most important problems
in the history of power electronics.

Actually, he hasn't, since he only presented half of the solution.

What would be required, in addition to the coil, would be a capacitor
with a reactance equal and opposite to the reactance of the coil at
60Hz in order to make the system resonant and generate the EM field
via the radiation resistance of the circuit.

A coil doesn't have to be resonated to radiate EM waves. Resonating it
just reduces the load on the AC power supply.

But "high intensity" is another matter. Hard to do with a
reasonable-sized coil, at 60 Hz.

Who said anything about "reasonable?" ;-)

A couple of thousand kilometers would be fine, if you can keep the Q
up.

John

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 04 May 2011 11:02:28 +0200, Uwe Hercksen
<hercksen@mew.uni-erlangen.de> wrote:

John Larkin schrieb:

A coil doesn't have to be resonated to radiate EM waves. Resonating it
just reduces the load on the AC power supply.

Hello,

a coil would radiate a (strong) magnetic field with 60 Hz, but a very
weak electric field. For an efective radiation of EM waves, you would
need the electric and magnetic fields together, with balanced strength.
Otherwise the EM waves could not work over larger distances.

Bye

Loop antennas work fine. They just get a tad large at 60 Hz.

Joh

 

[Mark]

On May 4, 5:02 am, Uwe Hercksen <herck...@mew.uni-erlangen.de> wrote:

John Larkin schrieb:

A coil doesn't have to be resonated to radiate EM waves. Resonating it
just reduces the load on the AC power supply.

Hello,

a coil would radiate a (strong) magnetic field with 60 Hz, but a very
weak electric field. For an efective radiation of EM waves, you would
need the electric and magnetic fields together, with balanced strength.
Otherwise the EM waves could not work over larger distances.

Bye

thought experiment..

take a small coil with a large current that radiates as you say a
strong magnetic field but a weak electric field.

right next to it, put a small probe with a high voltage that radiates
a strong electric field but a weak magnetic field.

Phased correctly these two should be an efficient EM radiator....

But they are not...

Mark

 

[George Herold]

On May 3, 4:13 pm, Joe Snodgrass <joe.s...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On May 3, 9:41 am, George Herold <gher...@teachspin.com> wrote:

On May 3, 8:46 am, Joe Snodgrass <joe.s...@yahoo.com> wrote:

What do you suppose would be a good way for a person to generate high
intensity RF at 60 Hz?  TIA

How about a big coil plugged into the wall socket?

Congratulations, you've just solved one of the most important problems
in the history of power electronics.  What part of the world are you
in?

Excellent is there any prize money involved?

George H.

 

[George Herold]

On May 3, 4:56 pm, John Fields <jfie...@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Tue, 3 May 2011 13:13:11 -0700 (PDT), Joe Snodgrass

joe.s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On May 3, 9:41 am, George Herold <gher...@teachspin.com> wrote:
On May 3, 8:46 am, Joe Snodgrass <joe.s...@yahoo.com> wrote:

What do you suppose would be a good way for a person to generate high
intensity RF at 60 Hz?  TIA

How about a big coil plugged into the wall socket?

Congratulations, you've just solved one of the most important problems
in the history of power electronics.

---
Actually, he hasn't, since he only presented half of the solution.

What would be required, in addition to the coil, would be a capacitor
with a reactance equal and opposite to the reactance of the coil at
60Hz in order to make the system resonant and generate the EM field
via the radiation resistance of the circuit.

--
JF

Oh I could spray plenty of 60 Hz around without a capacitor. But sure
add cap. Series resonance? Do you want a share of my prize money?

George H.

 

[George Herold]

On May 3, 6:35 pm, John Larkin
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 15:56:55 -0500, John Fields





jfie...@austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Tue, 3 May 2011 13:13:11 -0700 (PDT), Joe Snodgrass
joe.s...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On May 3, 9:41 am, George Herold <gher...@teachspin.com> wrote:
On May 3, 8:46 am, Joe Snodgrass <joe.s...@yahoo.com> wrote:

What do you suppose would be a good way for a person to generate high
intensity RF at 60 Hz?  TIA

How about a big coil plugged into the wall socket?

Congratulations, you've just solved one of the most important problems
in the history of power electronics.

---
Actually, he hasn't, since he only presented half of the solution.

What would be required, in addition to the coil, would be a capacitor
with a reactance equal and opposite to the reactance of the coil at
60Hz in order to make the system resonant and generate the EM field
via the radiation resistance of the circuit.

A coil doesn't have to be resonated to radiate EM waves. Resonating it
just reduces the load on the AC power supply.

But "high intensity" is another matter. Hard to do with a
reasonable-sized coil, at 60 Hz.

John- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The 60 Hz AC magnetic fields have gotten so bad at the place I work,
that I now have to schlep the optical pumping apparatus back to my
home to test it. (~0.5 milli Gauss line widths at ~10 Gauss fields.)
The AC fields are ~1-2 mG in strength. I thought about trying dectect
and cancel them over a small area.. but gave it up.

George H.

 

[krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

On Tue, 03 May 2011 22:23:58 -0700, Rich Grise <richg@example.net.invalid>
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 03 May 2011 15:56:55 -0500, John Fields
On Tue, 3 May 2011 13:13:11 -0700 (PDT), Joe Snodgrass
On May 3, 9:41 am, George Herold <gher...@teachspin.com> wrote:
On May 3, 8:46 am, Joe Snodgrass <joe.s...@yahoo.com> wrote:

What do you suppose would be a good way for a person to generate high
intensity RF at 60 Hz?  TIA

How about a big coil plugged into the wall socket?

Congratulations, you've just solved one of the most important problems
in the history of power electronics.

Actually, he hasn't, since he only presented half of the solution.

What would be required, in addition to the coil, would be a capacitor
with a reactance equal and opposite to the reactance of the coil at
60Hz in order to make the system resonant and generate the EM field
via the radiation resistance of the circuit.

A coil doesn't have to be resonated to radiate EM waves. Resonating it
just reduces the load on the AC power supply.

But "high intensity" is another matter. Hard to do with a
reasonable-sized coil, at 60 Hz.

Who said anything about "reasonable?" ;-)

With Spice, don't need no steenkin' "reasonable". ;-)

 

[Bill K7NOM]

On 5/4/2011 8:40 AM, George Herold wrote:

On May 3, 4:13 pm, Joe Snodgrass<joe.s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On May 3, 9:41 am, George Herold<gher...@teachspin.com> wrote:

On May 3, 8:46 am, Joe Snodgrass<joe.s...@yahoo.com> wrote:

What do you suppose would be a good way for a person to generate high
intensity RF at 60 Hz? TIA

How about a big coil plugged into the wall socket?

Congratulations, you've just solved one of the most important problems
in the history of power electronics. What part of the world are you
in?

Excellent is there any prize money involved?

George H.

How about a BIG COIL plugged in to the transmission line from Hoover Dam

Bill K7NOM