33 and 78 rpm: Possibly same needle ?

[Bob Parker]

On 9/11/2008 01:57 En Hr. Hvemsomhelst wrote:

The stylus tip required to playback modern 33 and 45rpm records is
significantly different from that required to playback 78rpm records.
A microgroove record requires a stylus with a tip radius of
approximately 0.7mil (for a spherical or conical tip) so the stylus
tip sits in the correct part of the groove for optimum playback. A
wide groove 78rpm disc requires a stylus tip of a much bigger radius.

If you play a 78rpm record with a conventional stylus intended for
playing 33 and 45rpm records the stylus tip will make contact with the
bottom of the groove of the disc, resulting in a significant increase
in surface noise during playback, not to mention possibly damaging the
stylus tip itself.
Playing a 33 or 45rpm record with a stylus intended for playing 78rpm
records may result in skipping and mistracking and will also damage
the record grooves with repetitive playing.

You can buy cartridges with easily interchangeable styli to play both
34/45 and 78rpm records.
AFAIK, Shure still make such cartridges.

Cheers,
Alan

Thank you. I thought so. I don't want to ruin those 78-records.
I think the stylus is interchangable.

There's a lot of info on this subject on the net, e.g.
http://www.amazingmultimedia.net/78RPM.htm which among other things says:

Diamond Disks ?
You probably never saw one of these but there are many around. Thomas
Edison started work in 1911 on his own improved discs and the result was
the Edison Diamond Discs. According to the hype at the time they could
played without wear, would not warp and sounded better than existing 78
RPM discs. Diamond Discs used a diamond playback needle while 78 RPM
records used a steel needle. Diamond Discs have a playback speed of 80
RPM, are a hefty 10oz, ź inch thick and hold about 5 minutes of audio.

The most important difference was the way the audio information is
recorded. With 78 RPM records, the needle inscribes the audio laterally,
or moving left and right. Diamond Discs use a vertical cut or
up-and-down method.

 

[Alan Rutlidge]

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4915A9CE.4867181C@hotmail.com...

Alan Rutlidge wrote:

"En Hr. Hvemsomhelst" <x@x.ru> wrote

I bought one of those USB-turntables, that can easily transfer old
records to computer files.

Here is my model: (Text in Danish, but click on the photo to see the
device well)
http://www.wr.dk/shop/lyd_stereoanlaeg/grammofoner_lp/nyt/usb_grammofon_til_pc_mac_5957_da.html

The idea was to transfer a few old 78 rpm records as a X-mas family
surprise. No need for excellent quality, - rather "just for the
record...".

The record player certainly has the option of running 78 rpm, and the
manual says nothing about the need of a different needle for
78-records.

I wrote to the importer and asked. He replied that nowadays it s
possible
to make a needle that can play both, and that the needle provided with
this
(80 US $) player was of that type, so I could safely play both types of
records on this player.

I find this hard to believe. How about you in the group ?

It doesn't take much googling to find evidence that the importer of the
player seems to be misinformed regarding the possible dual-performance.
This one for example : http://www.amazingmultimedia.net/78RPM.htm

But if indeed recently a new type of needle has been invented, then of
course I will just jump with joy....

Peter,

The stylus tip required to playback modern 33 and 45rpm records is
significantly different from that required to playback 78rpm records.
A microgroove record requires a stylus with a tip radius of approximately
0.7mil (for a spherical or conical tip) so the stylus tip sits in the
correct part of the groove for optimum playback. A wide groove 78rpm
disc
requires a stylus tip of a much bigger radius.

Not to mention the groove modulation bears NO resemblance WHATEVER. Nor
the EQ.

Grham

I don't think he's particularly worried about the fidelity or accuracy of
reproduction of his 78rpm records. The turntable in question isn't exactly
audiophile quality. Besides he could "fiddle with" the EQ post recording it
once in a WAV format or whilst recording it for that matter.

The truth is, there were many EQ methods used over the years for 78rpm
records. Without knowing which disc used what and actually having a pre-amp
with the correct EQ curve to match makes the point mute.
Most modern cartridges designed for a conventional 45 / 45 deg stereo groove
will still give a usable output from a 78rpm disc irrespective of the
modulation type (Vertical or horizontal) and hence the reason why some
cartridge manufacturers offer an optional stylus with a profile suited to
the grooves of 78rpm records. As 78rpm records were only ever recorded in
mono, taking the output from one channel is all that is required to
reproduce or record the content from the media.

 

[Mr.T]

"Don McKenzie" <5V@2.5A> wrote in message
news:6nll6oFmc9dbU1@mid.individual.net...

WOW! Thanks Mr.T

UCA-202, I found these ranging up to $99 locally, .

Wow, what a rip off. The SRRP is $59 AUD.

this one is $38

http://www.djxpress.com.au/products.php?category_1_id=2&category_2_id=22&pr

oduct_id=1039>

Good price. Usual discount price is between $39 and $49.

MrT.

 

[Don McKenzie]

En Hr. Hvemsomhelst wrote:

I bought one of those USB-turntables, that can easily transfer old
records to computer files.

My wife has been hounding me.

Here she is, well into her 60's, and she wants her old vinyls on her
latest iPOD.

I saw USB turntables at Hardly Normal's at around $500, so we gave that
a miss. They did have a special a few months ago at $222. Even so, seems
a lot to pay for something you use once. Couldn't find much else that
did the job. Found a $249 unit (Big-W) that talks straight to an iPOD,
but doesn't match the new iPOD we have.

I just on-line ordered a cable to get from my Vinyl deck to the MIC
input of my PC, and found a free "Audacity" lump of software that looks
like it will do the job. I'll let you know how this goes.

Regarding the different needles, I do recall on some of the older
turntables, that we had to swing the head over (180 degrees) for
different speeds, but the last turntable I purchased doesn't have this.

Don't forget 45's. Mostly we have old 45's. Elvis, JO'K, Buddy Holly,
Beatles, etc. Real music.

Audio wise people will add to this thread, and I may learn more about
where I am heading with it too.

BTW
Did I warn you never to get married? I don't think I can suffer another
45 years of this.

Cheers Don...



--
Don McKenzie

Site Map: http://www.dontronics.com/sitemap
E-Mail Contact Page: http://www.dontronics.com/email

http://www.dontronics-shop.com/super4-usb-relay-module.html
http://www.wizard-from-oz.com 1000's of electronic items

 

[Eeyore]

Alan Rutlidge wrote:

"En Hr. Hvemsomhelst" <x@x.ru> wrote

I bought one of those USB-turntables, that can easily transfer old
records to computer files.

Here is my model: (Text in Danish, but click on the photo to see the
device well)
http://www.wr.dk/shop/lyd_stereoanlaeg/grammofoner_lp/nyt/usb_grammofon_til_pc_mac_5957_da.html

The idea was to transfer a few old 78 rpm records as a X-mas family
surprise. No need for excellent quality, - rather "just for the
record...".

The record player certainly has the option of running 78 rpm, and the
manual says nothing about the need of a different needle for 78-records.

I wrote to the importer and asked. He replied that nowadays it s possible
to make a needle that can play both, and that the needle provided with this
(80 US $) player was of that type, so I could safely play both types of
records on this player.

I find this hard to believe. How about you in the group ?

It doesn't take much googling to find evidence that the importer of the
player seems to be misinformed regarding the possible dual-performance.
This one for example : http://www.amazingmultimedia.net/78RPM.htm

But if indeed recently a new type of needle has been invented, then of
course I will just jump with joy....

Peter,

The stylus tip required to playback modern 33 and 45rpm records is
significantly different from that required to playback 78rpm records.
A microgroove record requires a stylus with a tip radius of approximately
0.7mil (for a spherical or conical tip) so the stylus tip sits in the
correct part of the groove for optimum playback. A wide groove 78rpm disc
requires a stylus tip of a much bigger radius.

Not to mention the groove modulation bears NO resemblance WHATEVER. Nor the EQ.

Grham

 

[Eeyore]

Bob Parker wrote:

The price is $182 today but occasionally they put them on special
for about $80.

For God's sake buy a CD of it ! It will most likely have been properly transcribed.

Graham