33 and 78 rpm: Possibly same needle ?

  • Thread starter En Hr. Hvemsomhelst
  • Start date
E

En Hr. Hvemsomhelst

Guest
I bought one of those USB-turntables, that can easily transfer old
records to computer files.

Here is my model: (Text in Danish, but click on the photo to see the device
well)

http://www.wr.dk/shop/lyd_stereoanlaeg/grammofoner_lp/nyt/usb_grammofon_til_pc_mac_5957_da.html

The idea was to transfer a few old 78 rpm records as a X-mas family
surprise. No need for excellent quality, - rather "just for the record...".

The record player certainly has the option of running 78 rpm, and the manual
says nothing about the need of a different needle for 78-records.

I wrote to the importer and asked. He replied that nowadays it s possible to
make a needle that can play both, and that the needle provided with this (80
US $) player was of that type, so I could safely play both types of records
on
this player.

I find this hard to believe. How about you in the group ?

It doesn't take much googling to find evidence that the importer of the
player seems to be misinformed regarding the possible dual-performance.
This one for example : http://www.amazingmultimedia.net/78RPM.htm

But if indeed recently a new type of needle has been invented, then of
course I will just jump with joy....


Have a nice day.


/Peter
 
"En Hr. Hvemsomhelst" wrote:

NO

The groove modulation is TOTALLY different. A 33 rpm stylus will make a noise but that's about it.

PLUS, you'll need to know what equalisation was used.

Graham
 
Don McKenzie wrote:

Don't forget 45's. Mostly we have old 45's. Elvis, JO'K, Buddy Holly,
Beatles, etc. Real music. :)
Click to expand...
The same cartridges will play 33s and 45s correctly.

Graham
 
Don't forget 45's. Mostly we have old 45's. Elvis, JO'K, Buddy Holly,
Beatles, etc. Real music. :)

The same cartridges will play 33s and 45s correctly.
Click to expand...
I am looking for an answer to the question in the subject field....
 
Don McKenzie wrote:
I just on-line ordered a cable to get from my Vinyl deck to the MIC
input of my PC, and found a free "Audacity" lump of software that looks
like it will do the job. I'll let you know how this goes.
Click to expand...
The MIC input is the wrong answer. Use line in, and even then, you're
very dependent on the quality of your sound-card. I have an external
Behringer USB box that's ok with a laptop, where there are no earth
loop (ground bounce) problems. It uses a single TI chip and a few
opamps, but $60 was preferable to building my own.

Don't forget 45's. Mostly we have old 45's. Elvis, JO'K, Buddy Holly,
Beatles, etc. Real music. :)
Click to expand...
Most of this is available by Bittorrent, probably in better quality
than you're going to make, if you can afford the time to sort through
the cruft. The copyright issue is no different AFAICS.
 
"En Hr. Hvemsomhelst" <x@x.ru> wrote in message
news:4d98$49145796$5b6411e4$20634@news.arrownet.dk...
I bought one of those USB-turntables, that can easily transfer old
records to computer files.
Click to expand...
**You will require an appropriate 78 RPM stylus for 78 RPM records. 33/45
RPM stylii are too small.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
 
Clifford Heath wrote:

The MIC input is the wrong answer. Use line in, and even then, you're
very dependent on the quality of your sound-card.
Click to expand...
the words that went through my mind, didn't match the ones I typed.

thanks yes, "line input"

I have an external
Behringer USB box that's ok with a laptop, where there are no earth
loop (ground bounce) problems. It uses a single TI chip and a few
opamps, but $60 was preferable to building my own.
Click to expand...
you have a URL on that one by any chance Clifford?

Most of this is available by Bittorrent, probably in better quality
than you're going to make, if you can afford the time to sort through
the cruft. The copyright issue is no different AFAICS.
Click to expand...
horses for courses :)

Cheers Don...




--
Don McKenzie

Site Map: http://www.dontronics.com/sitemap
E-Mail Contact Page: http://www.dontronics.com/email

http://www.dontronics-shop.com/super4-usb-relay-module.html
http://www.wizard-from-oz.com 1000's of electronic items
 
"En Hr. Hvemsomhelst" <x@x.ru> wrote in message
news:4d98$49145796$5b6411e4$20634@news.arrownet.dk...
I bought one of those USB-turntables, that can easily transfer old
records to computer files.

Here is my model: (Text in Danish, but click on the photo to see the
device
well)


http://www.wr.dk/shop/lyd_stereoanlaeg/grammofoner_lp/nyt/usb_grammofon_til_
Click to expand...
pc_mac_5957_da.html
The idea was to transfer a few old 78 rpm records as a X-mas family
surprise. No need for excellent quality, - rather "just for the
record...".

The record player certainly has the option of running 78 rpm, and the
manual
says nothing about the need of a different needle for 78-records.

I wrote to the importer and asked. He replied that nowadays it s possible
to
make a needle that can play both, and that the needle provided with this
(80
US $) player was of that type, so I could safely play both types of
records
on this player.

I find this hard to believe. How about you in the group ?
Click to expand...

Given that you have "No need for excellent quality, - rather just for the
record", why do you care whether the stylus is the optimum size?
Most standard styli will play 78's, even if they sit too low in the groove,
and thus create more noise and distortion. Given the quality of the USB
turntables available (and the crappy cartridges fitted), I'm sure no one
else who buys one actually cares.
IF you did, you should have bought a better turntable with detachable
headshell and separate cartridges for 33 and 78, or at least a single
cartridge with both styli available and user swappable.

MrT.
 
On 8/11/2008 12:15 Trevor Wilson wrote:
"En Hr. Hvemsomhelst" <x@x.ru> wrote in message
news:4d98$49145796$5b6411e4$20634@news.arrownet.dk...
I bought one of those USB-turntables, that can easily transfer old
records to computer files.


**You will require an appropriate 78 RPM stylus for 78 RPM records. 33/45
RPM stylii are too small.
Click to expand...
Thanks Trevor - that's exactly what I was thinking of writing. :)

For the info of Don & others, Rockby Electronics flogs a little
phono -> USB converter which looks like it would do a reasonable job, see
http://www.rockby.com.au/searchres.cfm?searchkey=phono&imageField.x=31&imageField.y=7

The price is $182 today but occasionally they put them on special
for about $80.


Bob
 
"Don McKenzie" <5V@2.5A> wrote in message
news:6nk9i1FlrbqqU1@mid.individual.net...
you have a URL on that one by any chance Clifford?
Click to expand...
Look for UCA-202 on Behringer.com.
Many, if not most computer soundcards made in the last 10 years or so, are
more than adequate for converting vinyl though, despite what some people
claim. Especially if your vinyl is not absolutely pristine, *and* the
turntable/cartridge in the Rega class or better.
Simply test the soundcard performance with the free software "RMAA", then
measure what you can actually get from your records if you want proof.

MrT.
 
"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@_SPAMBLOCK_rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:6nk7ipFlalpnU1@mid.individual.net...
"En Hr. Hvemsomhelst" <x@x.ru> wrote in message
news:4d98$49145796$5b6411e4$20634@news.arrownet.dk...
I bought one of those USB-turntables, that can easily transfer old
records to computer files.

**You will require an appropriate 78 RPM stylus for 78 RPM records. 33/45
RPM stylii are too small.
Click to expand...
Only if you care about sound quality, noise and distortion, something the OP
said he doesn't.
(and obviously doesn't given what he bought)
No need to worry about incorrect playback EQ in such cases either, you'll
still get identifiable sound of some sort.

MrT.
 
"Bob Parker" <bobp.deletethis@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
news:49150bb2$0$22636$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
For the info of Don & others, Rockby Electronics flogs a little
phono -> USB converter which looks like it would do a reasonable job, see

http://www.rockby.com.au/searchres.cfm?searchkey=phono&imageField.x=31&image
Click to expand...
Field.y=7
The price is $182 today but occasionally they put them on special
for about $80.
Click to expand...

Or simply buy a Behringer UCA-202 and PP-400, for the same (lower) price any
day of the year.
Even less if you get a discount.

MrT.
 
"Eeysore"
"En Hr. Hvemsomhelst" wrote:

NO

The groove modulation is TOTALLY different.
Click to expand...

** Yeah, - everyone knows 78s use " hill and dale " groove modulation.

The L and R channel signals will be always out of phase, giving you NO
signal in mono.



.... Phil ;-)
 
well, we just checked out vinyl collection and found that the only 78 we
have that survived, is Bing Crosby and White Christmas. :)

thanks for the feed back guys.

Cheers Don...



--
Don McKenzie

Site Map: http://www.dontronics.com/sitemap
E-Mail Contact Page: http://www.dontronics.com/email

http://www.dontronics-shop.com/super4-usb-relay-module.html
http://www.wizard-from-oz.com 1000's of electronic items
 
"En Hr. Hvemsomhelst" <x@x.ru> wrote in message
news:4d98$49145796$5b6411e4$20634@news.arrownet.dk...
I bought one of those USB-turntables, that can easily transfer old
records to computer files.

Here is my model: (Text in Danish, but click on the photo to see the
device
well)

http://www.wr.dk/shop/lyd_stereoanlaeg/grammofoner_lp/nyt/usb_grammofon_til_pc_mac_5957_da.html

The idea was to transfer a few old 78 rpm records as a X-mas family
surprise. No need for excellent quality, - rather "just for the
record...".

The record player certainly has the option of running 78 rpm, and the
manual
says nothing about the need of a different needle for 78-records.

I wrote to the importer and asked. He replied that nowadays it s possible
to
make a needle that can play both, and that the needle provided with this
(80
US $) player was of that type, so I could safely play both types of
records on
this player.

I find this hard to believe. How about you in the group ?

It doesn't take much googling to find evidence that the importer of the
player seems to be misinformed regarding the possible dual-performance.
This one for example : http://www.amazingmultimedia.net/78RPM.htm

But if indeed recently a new type of needle has been invented, then of
course I will just jump with joy....


Have a nice day.


/Peter
Click to expand...
Peter,

The stylus tip required to playback modern 33 and 45rpm records is
significantly different from that required to playback 78rpm records.
A microgroove record requires a stylus with a tip radius of approximately
0.7mil (for a spherical or conical tip) so the stylus tip sits in the
correct part of the groove for optimum playback. A wide groove 78rpm disc
requires a stylus tip of a much bigger radius.

If you play a 78rpm record with a conventional stylus intended for playing
33 and 45rpm records the stylus tip will make contact with the bottom of the
groove of the disc, resulting in a significant increase in surface noise
during playback, not to mention possibly damaging the stylus tip itself.
Playing a 33 or 45rpm record with a stylus intended for playing 78rpm
records may result in skipping and mistracking and will also damage the
record grooves with repetitive playing.

You can buy cartridges with easily interchangeable styli to play both 34/45
and 78rpm records.
AFAIK, Shure still make such cartridges.

Cheers,
Alan
 
Mr.T wrote:
"Don McKenzie" <5V@2.5A> wrote in message
news:6nk9i1FlrbqqU1@mid.individual.net...
you have a URL on that one by any chance Clifford?

Look for UCA-202 on Behringer.com.
Many, if not most computer soundcards made in the last 10 years or so, are
more than adequate for converting vinyl though, despite what some people
claim. Especially if your vinyl is not absolutely pristine, *and* the
turntable/cartridge in the Rega class or better.
Simply test the soundcard performance with the free software "RMAA", then
measure what you can actually get from your records if you want proof.

MrT.
Click to expand...
WOW! Thanks Mr.T

UCA-202, I found these ranging up to $99 locally, this one is $38.
<http://www.djxpress.com.au/products.php?category_1_id=2&category_2_id=22&product_id=1039>

I'll try this if my direct cable has problems.
Don...



--
Don McKenzie

Site Map: http://www.dontronics.com/sitemap
E-Mail Contact Page: http://www.dontronics.com/email

http://www.dontronics-shop.com/super4-usb-relay-module.html
http://www.wizard-from-oz.com 1000's of electronic items
 
The stylus tip required to playback modern 33 and 45rpm records is
significantly different from that required to playback 78rpm records.
A microgroove record requires a stylus with a tip radius of approximately
0.7mil (for a spherical or conical tip) so the stylus tip sits in the
correct part of the groove for optimum playback. A wide groove 78rpm disc
requires a stylus tip of a much bigger radius.

If you play a 78rpm record with a conventional stylus intended for playing
33 and 45rpm records the stylus tip will make contact with the bottom of
the groove of the disc, resulting in a significant increase in surface
noise during playback, not to mention possibly damaging the stylus tip
itself.
Playing a 33 or 45rpm record with a stylus intended for playing 78rpm
records may result in skipping and mistracking and will also damage the
record grooves with repetitive playing.

You can buy cartridges with easily interchangeable styli to play both
34/45 and 78rpm records.
AFAIK, Shure still make such cartridges.

Cheers,
Alan
Click to expand...
Thank you. I thought so. I don't want to ruin those 78-records.
I think the stylus is interchangable.
 
"En Hr. Hvemsomhelst" wrote:

Don't forget 45's. Mostly we have old 45's. Elvis, JO'K, Buddy Holly,
Beatles, etc. Real music. :)

The same cartridges will play 33s and 45s correctly.

I am looking for an answer to the question in the subject field....
Click to expand...
Use a steel needle an an acoustic horn for 78s.

Graham
 
Don McKenzie wrote:

WOW! Thanks Mr.T

UCA-202, I found these ranging up to $99 locally, this one is $38.
Click to expand...
Oh FFS, get a Creative Audigy for pennies in the pound. I think I got one s/h and in perfect
order for ~ $10.

It will blow away any vinyl quality of any type.

Graham
 
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