14 sensors on a stick

[Marke]

Very cool. I would definitely set up one up in the greenhouse for monitoring if you end up with extra. Will send you an email Win.

Thanks,

Mark

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Mon, 3 Jun 2019 09:37:35 -0700 (PDT)) it happened George
Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote in
<e49a1bfa-1c46-479e-b080-8acd20d8dc4f@googlegroups.com>:

On Monday, June 3, 2019 at 12:16:02 PM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Here in detail explained:
https://www.electronicshub.org/humidity-sensor-types-working-principle/

Thanks Jan. I guess I always want to know more. Why do these things
measure RH (relative humidity) so well? I'd think they some how
would measure the amount of water in the air. (absolute humidity)
Which changes dramatically with temperature.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_humidity#Other_important_facts

Well here the DHT11 tolerances:
http://panteltje.com/pub/DHT11_rh_versus_temperature.gif

It is not so bad, but they only go to 90% RH, above that it is soaked..
The ebay meter than shows HH (for too high) or LL (for too low):
2019 06 03 17:32 t 31.9 / rh 0.0 \ t_min 16.8 at 07:00 t_max 31.9 at 17:32 rh_min LL at 17:32 rh_max 88.0 at 06:44

So lots of things go wrong at the end of the ranges, 0% RH at 31.9 C??

That is the time when the sun hits it directly I think,
it is mounted under the garden table, but late in the afternoon it gets out of the shadow...
There is a whole lot of instructions on the web how to build a correct temp and RH sensor station though.

 

[whit3rd]

On Monday, June 3, 2019 at 10:48:15 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Well here the DHT11 tolerances:
http://panteltje.com/pub/DHT11_rh_versus_temperature.gif

It is not so bad, but they only go to 90% RH, above that it is soaked..
....
There is a whole lot of instructions on the web how to build a correct temp and RH sensor station though.

I'm unsure that instructions are what's required; atmospheric pressure, temperature, and humidity
are all important, the 'relative humidity' combination is just an EASY one to sense,
not necessarily the right one. The nominal sensor calibration ignores pressure entirely (which
is important, it changes the dew point and onset of problems with mold, corrosion, etc.).

Atmospheric pressure can change suddenly (entering a low pressure area), and ought to
have some consideration. Alas, that requires a weather map rather than a sensor.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Mon, 3 Jun 2019 22:36:40 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
<whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in
<8a5d7414-dd8a-4099-b645-fdfec90ecf42@googlegroups.com>:

On Monday, June 3, 2019 at 10:48:15 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Well here the DHT11 tolerances:
http://panteltje.com/pub/DHT11_rh_versus_temperature.gif

It is not so bad, but they only go to 90% RH, above that it is soaked..
...
There is a whole lot of instructions on the web how to build a correct temp and RH sensor station though.

I'm unsure that instructions are what's required; atmospheric pressure, temperature, and humidity
are all important, the 'relative humidity' combination is just an EASY one to sense,
not necessarily the right one. The nominal sensor calibration ignores pressure entirely (which
is important, it changes the dew point and onset of problems with mold, corrosion, etc.).

Atmospheric pressure can change suddenly (entering a low pressure area), and ought to
have some consideration. Alas, that requires a weather map rather than a sensor.

Yes, true, I am not much into the exact RH thing, just more curiosity.
I do display and log pressure however:
http://panteltje.com/pub/xgpspc_pressure.gif
bottom right is pressure,
The bar graph shows teh variation in the last 24 hours,
there is storm alarm if pressure changes more than some value in an hour,
Prediction works very well, like the old barometer.
Pressure sensor is a BMP180.

Very accurate, and you can also get altitude changes from it,
it sees the difference between on the floor and on a table.

 

[Winfield Hill]

Marke wrote...

Very cool. I would definitely set up one up in the
greenhouse for monitoring if you end up with extra.
Will send you an email Win.

OK, great Mark, looking for your email.
Note my yahoo email address (my Harvard
email inbox is clogged-up beyond use).


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 6/2/19 9:30 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:

Winfield Hill wrote...

This is a stick of 14 sensors on six ICs, that's
meant to go into the middle of a beehive. But it
could be interesting for other uses. It runs on
low-power 3.3V, and uses a single I2C data bus.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/97gj51p03554cii/AAAk8W8yaLS7W_bp_JWde5W5a?dl=0

WRT to the choice of sensors, there's redundancy
for the T + RH sensors, because we've had so much
trouble with RH sensors (it's a test platform).
It has a barometric-pressure sensor, a CO2 sensor,
and two volatile organic gas sensors. The latter
use miniature hot plates, briefly drawing up to
75mA. An 800M:1 dynamic-range light sensor is to
help explore interesting night-time hive activity
(but we didn't add proximity detectors). (I also
resisted temptation to add a lightning detector.)

As far as the bewildering array of IO connectors
is concerned, that's to handle a variety of uses.

Anyone who wants to play with one of these
sticks, I may have extras in a month or so.

I'd very much like one if you have spares. That way we can test out all
of those sensors at once to see which one we like best.

Thanks!

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Winfield Hill]

Phil Hobbs wrote...

On 6/2/19 9:30 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:
Winfield Hill wrote...

This is a stick of 14 sensors on six ICs, that's
meant to go into the middle of a beehive. But it
could be interesting for other uses. It runs on
low-power 3.3V, and uses a single I2C data bus.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/97gj51p03554cii/AAAk8W8yaLS7W_bp_JWde5W5a?dl=0

WRT to the choice of sensors, there's redundancy
for the T + RH sensors, because we've had so much
trouble with RH sensors (it's a test platform).
It has a barometric-pressure sensor, a CO2 sensor,
and two volatile organic gas sensors. The latter
use miniature hot plates, briefly drawing up to
75mA. An 800M:1 dynamic-range light sensor is to
help explore interesting night-time hive activity
(but we didn't add proximity detectors). (I also
resisted temptation to add a lightning detector.)

As far as the bewildering array of IO connectors
is concerned, that's to handle a variety of uses.

Anyone who wants to play with one of these
sticks, I may have extras in a month or so.

I'd very much like one if you have spares. That
way we can test out all of those sensors at once
to see which one we like best.

OK, Phil, I've cc'd your address to my email.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 6/2/19 8:23 PM, Winfield Hill wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote...

Could you tell us more about your RH sensor experience?

WE had only one brand that failed (one you wouldn't use);
I can tell you more after working with our four new brands.


Hi, Win,

Did you get a chance to look at the humidity sensors? My high-Z sensor
board is going into layout next week.

Thanks

Phil hobbs


--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Winfield Hill]

Phil Hobbs wrote...

On 6/2/19 8:23 PM, Winfield Hill wrote:
Phil Hobbs wrote...

Could you tell us more about your RH sensor experience?

WE had only one brand that failed (one you wouldn't use);
I can tell you more after working with our four new brands.

Hi, Win,

Did you get a chance to look at the humidity sensors?
My high-Z sensor board is going into layout next week.

The TH-stick board has four sensors** with a humidity
channel. We've had three TH-sticks running in hives
for about two months, so I can take a look at the data.
One hive is inactive now, the queen having absconded,
but the other two are cranking along. The data is in
the cloud, so I should be able to see it from home.

** TI HDC1080, Sensirion SHT31, SHTC1 and Bosch BME280.
(The next production rev had BME680, adding VOC gas.)


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[Winfield Hill]

Winfield Hill wrote...

Phil Hobbs wrote...
On 6/2/19 8:23 PM, Winfield Hill wrote:
Phil Hobbs wrote...

Could you tell us more about your RH sensor experience?

WE had only one brand that failed (one you wouldn't use);
I can tell you more after working with our four new brands.

Hi, Win,

Did you get a chance to look at the humidity sensors?
My high-Z sensor board is going into layout next week.

The TH-stick board has four sensors** with a humidity
channel. We've had three TH-sticks running in hives
for about two months, so I can take a look at the data.
One hive is inactive now, the queen having absconded,
but the other two are cranking along. The data is in
the cloud, so I should be able to see it from home.

** TI HDC1080, Sensirion SHT31, SHTC1 and Bosch BME280.
(The next production rev had BME680, adding VOC gas.)

https://colonywise-graphs.herokuapp.com/

That's the cloud data. You have to wait, it takes a
while to come up. I see they're only plotting one
each of the T and RH sensors, so I'll have to make an
Excel version from 8.5MB of ASCII data in three files.

But first, it's a nice warm afternoon, and I'm outside
adding a Spar urethane layer to our deck railings.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[Winfield Hill]

Winfield Hill wrote...

Phil Hobbs wrote...

On 6/2/19 8:23 PM, Winfield Hill wrote:
Phil Hobbs wrote...

Could you tell us more about your RH sensor experience?

WE had only one brand that failed (one you wouldn't use);
I can tell you more after working with our four new brands.

Hi, Win,

Did you get a chance to look at the humidity sensors?
My high-Z sensor board is going into layout next week.

The TH-stick board has four sensors** with a humidity
channel. We've had three TH-sticks running in hives
for about two months, so I can take a look at the data.
One hive is inactive now, the queen having absconded,
but the other two are cranking along. The data is in
the cloud, so I should be able to see it from home.

** TI HDC1080, Sensirion SHT31, SHTC1 and Bosch BME280.
(The next production rev had BME680, adding VOC gas.)

First results, from one bee hive. See DropBox folder
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/w1xbcwovma602he/AADzRhQgieifJ9z1FoSscDrHa?dl=1

See graph and text: TH-stick_T,RH_four-sensors_Crackle
Excerpt from the .txt file:

All four sensors performed properly for the roughly 3 months
of working in the beehive, near the center where the queen
would be, except for the BME280, whose RH readings jumped to
83.4 to 83.5% for about 23 days, then started working again.

The temperature plots lie very much on top of each other.
The RH plots also lie on top of each other, except for
the BME280, whose values track about 7% below the others.
The HDC1080 was about 2% higher than the two Sensiron ICs.

The BME280 results are disappointing, it's a respected sensor
whose main claim to fame is its precision pressure sensor.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[Winfield Hill]

Phil Hobbs wrote...

Thanks, that's interesting. I'm using a Sensirion
SHTC3, which looks like the right answer.

I determined that it wasn't reasonable to hand assemble
any of our TH-stick sensor ICs, and the SHTC3 doubly
so with its hidden connections underneath. Although I
tried extra hard not to make any mistakes, it was very
helpful to be able to split my machine assembly order
into two portions, with a 5-piece "first article",
followed a second assembly after I made some changes.
This was with Advanced Assembly in Denver.

Just now I'm adding an MS5607-02BA3 pressure sensor to
my cathodoluminescence front end board--that way we can
cut off the HV and run up to room temperature when the
SEM chamber is being vented.

Only $2, amazing. Is your PCB in the vacuum?


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 9/23/19 9:04 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:

Winfield Hill wrote...

Phil Hobbs wrote...

On 6/2/19 8:23 PM, Winfield Hill wrote:
Phil Hobbs wrote...

Could you tell us more about your RH sensor experience?

WE had only one brand that failed (one you wouldn't use);
I can tell you more after working with our four new brands.

Hi, Win,

Did you get a chance to look at the humidity sensors?
My high-Z sensor board is going into layout next week.

The TH-stick board has four sensors** with a humidity
channel. We've had three TH-sticks running in hives
for about two months, so I can take a look at the data.
One hive is inactive now, the queen having absconded,
but the other two are cranking along. The data is in
the cloud, so I should be able to see it from home.

** TI HDC1080, Sensirion SHT31, SHTC1 and Bosch BME280.
(The next production rev had BME680, adding VOC gas.)

First results, from one bee hive. See DropBox folder
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/w1xbcwovma602he/AADzRhQgieifJ9z1FoSscDrHa?dl=1

See graph and text: TH-stick_T,RH_four-sensors_Crackle
Excerpt from the .txt file:

All four sensors performed properly for the roughly 3 months
of working in the beehive, near the center where the queen
would be, except for the BME280, whose RH readings jumped to
83.4 to 83.5% for about 23 days, then started working again.

The temperature plots lie very much on top of each other.
The RH plots also lie on top of each other, except for
the BME280, whose values track about 7% below the others.
The HDC1080 was about 2% higher than the two Sensiron ICs.

The BME280 results are disappointing, it's a respected sensor
whose main claim to fame is its precision pressure sensor.

Thanks, that's interesting. I'm using a Sensirion SHTC3, which looks
like the right answer.

Just now I'm adding an MS5607-02BA3 pressure sensor to my
cathodoluminescence front end board--that way we can cut off the HV and
run up to room temperature when the SEM chamber is being vented.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

Just now I'm adding an MS5607-02BA3 pressure sensor to
my cathodoluminescence front end board--that way we can
cut off the HV and run up to room temperature when the
SEM chamber is being vented.

 Only $2, amazing.  Is your PCB in the vacuum?

There are two in the chamber, this front end board and another one on the cold plate. The front end includes a pHEMT-bootstrapped TIA, a DC-50 MHz low noise variable gain amp (0-36dB in steps of 0.18 dB), thermistor linearization, and an LPC845 micro to run it all. It's cooled by the aluminum/copper frame via a 3 W/m/K gap pad. (SEMs aren't UHV, so you can do that sort of stuff.)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.ne

 

Oh, and a Lite-On ambient light sensor, just in case.

 

[Winfield Hill]

pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote...

Oh, and a Lite-On ambient light sensor, just in case.

It's fun adding I2C sensors, looking for candidates.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[Winfield Hill]

Winfield Hill wrote...

Winfield Hill wrote...
Phil Hobbs wrote...
On 6/2/19 8:23 PM, Winfield Hill wrote:
Phil Hobbs wrote...

Could you tell us more about your RH sensor experience?

WE had only one brand that failed (one you wouldn't use);
I can tell you more after working with our four new brands.

Hi, Win,

Did you get a chance to look at the humidity sensors?
My high-Z sensor board is going into layout next week.

The TH-stick board has four sensors** with a humidity
channel. We've had three TH-sticks running in hives
for about two months, so I can take a look at the data.
One hive is inactive now, the queen having absconded,
but the other two are cranking along. The data is in
the cloud, so I should be able to see it from home.

** TI HDC1080, Sensirion SHT31, SHTC1 and Bosch BME280.
(The next production rev had BME680, adding VOC gas.)

First results, from one bee hive. See DropBox folder
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/w1xbcwovma602he/AADzRhQgieifJ9z1FoSscDrHa?dl=1

See graph and text: TH-stick_T,RH_four-sensors_Crackle
Excerpt from the .txt file:

All four sensors performed properly for the roughly 3 months
of working in the beehive, near the center where the queen
would be, except for the BME280, whose RH readings jumped to
83.4 to 83.5% for about 23 days, then started working again.

The temperature plots lie very much on top of each other.
The RH plots also lie on top of each other, except for
the BME280, whose values track about 7% below the others.
The HDC1080 was about 2% higher than the two Sensiron ICs.

The BME280 results are disappointing, it's a respected sensor
whose main claim to fame is its precision pressure sensor.

A second behive now, with similar results. This time the
BME280 RH readings were about 5% lower than the other three.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[Winfield Hill]

Winfield Hill wrote...

Winfield Hill wrote...
Winfield Hill wrote...
Phil Hobbs wrote...
On 6/2/19 8:23 PM, Winfield Hill wrote:
Phil Hobbs wrote...

Could you tell us more about your RH sensor experience?

WE had only one brand that failed (one you wouldn't use);
I can tell you more after working with our four new brands.

Hi, Win,

Did you get a chance to look at the humidity sensors?
My high-Z sensor board is going into layout next week.

The TH-stick board has four sensors** with a humidity
channel. We've had three TH-sticks running in hives
for about two months, so I can take a look at the data.
One hive is inactive now, the queen having absconded,
but the other two are cranking along. The data is in
the cloud, so I should be able to see it from home.

** TI HDC1080, Sensirion SHT31, SHTC1 and Bosch BME280.
(The next production rev had BME680, adding VOC gas.)

First results, from one bee hive. See DropBox folder
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/w1xbcwovma602he/AADzRhQgieifJ9z1FoSscDrHa?dl=1

See graph and text: TH-stick_T,RH_four-sensors_Crackle
Excerpt from the .txt file:

All four sensors performed properly for the roughly 3 months
of working in the beehive, near the center where the queen
would be, except for the BME280, whose RH readings jumped to
83.4 to 83.5% for about 23 days, then started working again.

The temperature plots lie very much on top of each other.
The RH plots also lie on top of each other, except for
the BME280, whose values track about 7% below the others.
The HDC1080 was about 2% higher than the two Sensiron ICs.

The BME280 results are disappointing, it's a respected sensor
whose main claim to fame is its precision pressure sensor.

A second behive now, with similar results. This time the
BME280 RH readings were about 5% lower than the other three.

In the third behive BME280 RH readings again about 5% lower
than two Sensirion sensors and the TI was about 3% higher.

In all three hives the pair of Sensirion sensors closely
tracked each other. Two of the hives were able to tightly
regulate their internal TH-stick T and RH values, but the
3rd hive was unable to do so, and absconded after 2 months.
It was unable to significantly build up its bee population.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[Winfield Hill]

amdx wrote...

In all three hives the pair of Sensirion sensors closely
tracked each other. Two of the hives were able to tightly
regulate their internal TH-stick T and RH values, but the
3rd hive was unable to do so, and absconded after 2 months.
It was unable to significantly build up its bee population.

Did anyone note any physical difference of the abandoned hive?
Or reason they couldn't regulate it?

This was the first hive started, the others a day later.
The hive was in trouble from the beginning, not growing
as it should, etc. They never developed a significant
foraging brood. This year we tried to avoid too much
opening of the hives, but this one was inspected several
times, and SFAIK, no obvious problem was observed.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[amdx]

On 9/25/2019 11:50 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:

Winfield Hill wrote...
Winfield Hill wrote...
Winfield Hill wrote...
Phil Hobbs wrote...
On 6/2/19 8:23 PM, Winfield Hill wrote:
Phil Hobbs wrote...

Could you tell us more about your RH sensor experience?

WE had only one brand that failed (one you wouldn't use);
I can tell you more after working with our four new brands.

Hi, Win,

Did you get a chance to look at the humidity sensors?
My high-Z sensor board is going into layout next week.

The TH-stick board has four sensors** with a humidity
channel. We've had three TH-sticks running in hives
for about two months, so I can take a look at the data.
One hive is inactive now, the queen having absconded,
but the other two are cranking along. The data is in
the cloud, so I should be able to see it from home.

** TI HDC1080, Sensirion SHT31, SHTC1 and Bosch BME280.
(The next production rev had BME680, adding VOC gas.)

First results, from one bee hive. See DropBox folder
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/w1xbcwovma602he/AADzRhQgieifJ9z1FoSscDrHa?dl=1

See graph and text: TH-stick_T,RH_four-sensors_Crackle
Excerpt from the .txt file:

All four sensors performed properly for the roughly 3 months
of working in the beehive, near the center where the queen
would be, except for the BME280, whose RH readings jumped to
83.4 to 83.5% for about 23 days, then started working again.

The temperature plots lie very much on top of each other.
The RH plots also lie on top of each other, except for
the BME280, whose values track about 7% below the others.
The HDC1080 was about 2% higher than the two Sensiron ICs.

The BME280 results are disappointing, it's a respected sensor
whose main claim to fame is its precision pressure sensor.

A second behive now, with similar results. This time the
BME280 RH readings were about 5% lower than the other three.

In the third behive BME280 RH readings again about 5% lower
than two Sensirion sensors and the TI was about 3% higher.

In all three hives the pair of Sensirion sensors closely
tracked each other. Two of the hives were able to tightly
regulate their internal TH-stick T and RH values, but the
3rd hive was unable to do so, and absconded after 2 months.
It was unable to significantly build up its bee population.

Did anyone note any physical difference of the abandoned hive?
Or reason they couldn't regulate it?
Mikek