12v battery protector circuit

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:29:23 +0000, CFoley1064 wrote:

Subject: Re: 12v battery protector circuit
From: andy news4@earthsong.free-online.co.uk
Date: 8/26/2004 8:45 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id: <pan.2004.08.27.01.45.18.484766@earthsong.free-online.co.uk

snip
What I want is a circuit that doesn't need resetting,
so I'll have a proper look at both those designs when my head's a bit
clearer, and see if I can come up with something.

Hi, Andy.
You got very lucky. There have been an amazing number of really well
thought-out answers to your original post, especially the two circuits posted
by Mr. Thompson and Mr. Fields in binaries. If you start out with an
inadequate problem description and keep adding to it as you go along, you're
kind of wasting the time of the people who respond, as well as an opportunity
to learn something. But...
OK, I'll be specific. The main circuit is the watering timer controller I
have been working on the last month (on and off). I'm building it for some
friends who live out in the country, and have a big polytunnel greenhouse
which needs watering once or twice a day from a tank that fills off the
roof of one of the buildings. They don't have mains power - just a
windmill / battery / inverter system which isn't always reliable, so I'm
trying to build it as a standalone solar powered system. It's meant to be
as automatic as possible, so they can mostly just leave it running and
forget about it. E.g. if they want to go away for a few weeks. I'm also
trying to build it so the design can be used by anyone else in a similar
situation, and as cheaply as possible - i.e. use cheap, standard parts and
simple construction rather than exotic components.

The main circuit triggers a 0.5s 12A pulse through an electromagnet when
the light goes from day to night or vice versa. This is all working and
tested on breadboard. The circuit uses about 0.7-0.8 mA when it's waiting
to trigger, and 12A during the pulses, which makes:

24*0.7mA=17 mAh/day for the controller
12*.5*2/3600=3.3 mAh/day for the electromagnet
= 20 mAh/day total.

I've kept the current as low as possible, because the solar panel will be
the most expensive single component - I've found someone who does a 1 W
(rated) panel for about 10 UKP, and these panels only reliably provide 70
mAh/day in uk winters, 250 mAh/day in the summer. The battery will be a
1.2 or 2.1 Ah yuasa NP battery.

The battery protection circuit is probably icing on the cake. There ought
to be enough charge in it to cover a long run of dull days, but I wanted
something like that in there to stop battery damage if something goes
wrong. Also, there are other similar projects I'm thinking about which
would need this more.

The important thing is that when the circuit is switched off, the current
drain should be well under the drain in normal use, so the solar panel can
recharge the battery. Say no more than 2 mAh/day, which would make 80 uA
average current. And during normal use, it shouldn't add to much to the
total current consumption - say 200 uA max. A reset button would be an
annoyance - there's no way to tell if it's working properly without
waiting for the circuit to trigger, or maybe pressing a button to activate
a power test led, but this would mean there would be something else to do
every day to make sure the system was working, which would spoil the point
of making it automatic.

Like I said, I'll have a proper look at all the designs people have
posted, and then build something based on them. Thanks to everyone who
has replied - I reckon I know enough now to get the thing built, so I'll
probably leave off posting about it until it's finished and written up on
the web, and then post a link.



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On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 08:33:24 -0500, John Fields wrote:


Try this:

PCH
BAT+>----+-------+-----+-----------------S D------+
| | | G |
| [845K] | | |
[360K] | | | |
| +----|-\ | |
| | | >--------------+ | |
+-------|----|+/ | | |
| | U1A 4001 A--+ | |
| | LMC6762 +--Y U2A | |
| [22.6K] | B-----+ [LOAD]
| | | | |
| | U1B +--B | |
+-------|----|-\ U2B Y-----+ |
| | | >-----+--A | |
| +----|+/ | | |
[LM385-2.5] | | +--A | |
| [226K] | | U2C Y-----+ |
| | | +--B | |
| | | | | |
| | | +--A | |
| | | | U2D Y-----+ |
| | | +--B |
| | | |
BAT------+-------+-----+----------------------------+

All of the resistors are +/- 1% except for the 360k, which is +/- 5%.

The resistor string values were selected for a VBAT cutoff of <=11V
and a turn-on of >=12V. You'll have to recalculate them if you want
something else.

Operating currents at 11V are: for the LM385, 24ľA
for the resistor string, 10ľA
for the comparator, 25ľA
for the 4001, 1ľA
for the MOSFET, 0
-----
For a total of ....................................... 60ľA

I haven't added any hysteresis because the latch makes it unnecessary,
but if the circuit chatters and you find that objectionable, connect
0.1ľF ceramic caps across the inputs of each comparator.
That's looking promising - the LMC6762 would also do nicely instead of the
393 in the main circuit I reckon, which should cut down the current a
fair bit more. The only thing I'd like to know is whether this is a fairly
standard part that's easy to get hold of, or is it one that's likely to be
out of stock or discontinued? (Thinking about if I publish the finished
design, and someone wants to build one a year or few from now.)

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On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:29:39 -0500, John Fields wrote:

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 18:55:36 +0100, andy
news4@earthsong.free-online.co.uk> wrote:


That's looking promising -

---
"That's looking promising. Thank you." would be so much nicer, don't
you think?
ok, thanks.

the LMC6762 would also do nicely instead of the
393 in the main circuit I reckon, which should cut down the current a
fair bit more.

---
Maybe, maybe not. the LMC6762 has push-pull outputs, so if you need an
open-collector output, you're out of luck.
It would be better with push-pull - the open collector outputs on the 393
just meant that it needed more current than really necessary so that the
pullup could pull it high enough when the output transistor was off.

The only thing I'd like to know is whether this is a fairly
standard part that's easy to get hold of, or is it one that's likely to be
out of stock or discontinued? (Thinking about if I publish the finished
design, and someone wants to build one a year or few from now.)

---
Jesus, Andy, do some of your own leg work for a change. It's easy
enough to do, just point your browser around and find out who's got
what in stock. Since National makes the part that would be the
logical place to start, and here's what they have on it:

http://www.national.com/search/psearch.cgi?keywords=LMC6762
Sorry. I had a look - it's ten times less common than the lm393 on
google, and in the uk it's stocked by Farnell and radio spares, but not
maplins or rapid electronics, who both stock the 393. So maybe not so good
from that point of view. I asked because I thought it's the kind of
question that's hard to answer unless you've been doing electronics day to
day for some time.

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On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:29:39 -0500, John Fields wrote:

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 18:55:36 +0100, andy
news4@earthsong.free-online.co.uk> wrote:


That's looking promising -

---
"That's looking promising. Thank you." would be so much nicer, don't
you think?
OK, thanks.

the LMC6762 would also do nicely instead of the
393 in the main circuit I reckon, which should cut down the current a
fair bit more.

---
Maybe, maybe not. the LMC6762 has push-pull outputs, so if you need an
open-collector output, you're out of luck.
push-pull would actually be better - the open collector on the 393 just
meant that it was taking more current than needed with the output
transistor on so that the resistor could pull the output high enough when
the transistor was off.

---

The only thing I'd like to know is whether this is a fairly
standard part that's easy to get hold of, or is it one that's likely to be
out of stock or discontinued? (Thinking about if I publish the finished
design, and someone wants to build one a year or few from now.)

---
Jesus, Andy, do some of your own leg work for a change. It's easy
enough to do, just point your browser around and find out who's got
what in stock. Since National makes the part that would be the
logical place to start, and here's what they have on it:

http://www.national.com/search/psearch.cgi?keywords=LMC6762
Sorry. I had a look, and it's less common than the lm393 (ten times less
hits on google, and stocked by only 2 out of 4 uk electronics suppliers I
looked at). So not so good from that point of view, but the low power
might make it worth trying.

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On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 09:59:38 -0500, John Fields wrote:

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 08:33:24 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
Is there any reason not to do it like this:

PCH
BAT+>----+----------+-----+-----------------S D------+
| | | G |
| | | | |
| [840K] | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
[360K] [] | | |
| 22 K []<--|-\ | |
| [] | >----+------------+ |
+-[8.4K]+--|----|+/ | |
| | | U1A | |
| | | LMC6762 | |
| | | | [LOAD]
| +--|-------[1M]-+ |
[LM385-2.5] | |
| | |
| | |
| [180K] |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | |
BAT------+----------+----------------------------------+

And get the hysteresis through the opamp rather than using an SR latch?

If I have the values right, the pot should set the switch level between
10-11 volts, with 0.5 volt hysteresis (mostly on the high side, so it
would be more like 10.8-11.8 V)

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