XT60 and soldering update...

[OJ Oxford]

My former post was on the unwanted heating up of a cigarette lighter and
it was determined that there was too much resistance in such a
connector, so switched out to the XT60 based mainly on Jeff Liebermann\'s
recommendation. I initially had great difficulties with my various
soldering irons on hand heating up both the connector and the 12 ga
copper wires enough to get an acceptable connection, so proceeded to
order a brand new 60 watt temp controlled iron and some flux. Well, I\'m
happy to report that all is well. I have been pleasantly surprised by
how well the combination of the iron and flux are working and all
connections, while still delayed a bit, are being satisfactorily made
and I no longer have lack of connection, melting, or cold solder
concerns. Oh, and I have been working with silver solder too as the
standard had not yet arrived.

Apparently, my other irons on hand either didn\'t have the correct tips,
were too old to heat up correctly and/or lacking the additional flux all
worked to disadvantage. I must say that this 60 watt iron heats up
faster than any of my other irons. It is a pencil type and ready to go
in about 15 seconds, where my other pencil units always took several min.

Thanks again to the group for setting me straight.

 

[Fox\'s Mercantile]

On 12/4/20 7:36 AM, OJ Oxford wrote:
> Thanks again to the group for setting me straight.

Not all of us give bad advice just to see our name in print.


--
\"I am a river to my people.\"
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 08:36:01 -0500, OJ Oxford <bestnet@none.com> wrote:

Thanks for the update. Some minor comments.

I initially had great difficulties with my various
soldering irons on hand heating up both the connector and the 12 ga
copper wires enough to get an acceptable connection,

More correctly, those were soldering guns, which I consider to be a
really bad idea for soldering XT60 connectors.

I have been working with silver solder too as the
standard had not yet arrived.

Silver alloy solder melts at about the same temperature as 63/37
lead/tin solder. However, 50/50 melts at about 25C higher
temperature. Be sure to adjust the temperature of your new soldering
iron depending on which solder you are using. Also, try not to mix
solders. You can mix 50/50 and 63/37, but not either of these and
lead free RoHS (tin/silver/copper) solders. I\'m not sure about mixing
with silver solder. If you get a solder connection that is dull and
not shiny, clean off as much of the solder as possible and start over
with solder and flux until you get a shiny connection.

I must say that this 60 watt iron heats up
faster than any of my other irons. It is a pencil type and ready to go
in about 15 seconds, where my other pencil units always took several min.

My guess(tm) is the lack of a temperature controlled soldering iron
was the main contributor to your soldering problem because the copper
wire was drawing away all the heat from the joint.

If your other pencil irons (or soldering guns) took several minutes to
heat up, they were probably not temperature controlled. When I
learned to solder about 65 years ago, all I could buy were
non-temperature controlled soldering irons. At the time wood burning
art kits were popular. Make a \"painting\" with a piece of wood and a
wood burning iron. Later, I graduated to essentially the same irons,
but made for electronics. It was perhaps 20 years later, that I was
introduced to a proper temperature controlled soldering iron. The
difference was amazing. The temperature controlled iron (Weller
TC-201T) had a \"magnastat\" thermostat in the iron to control the
temperature. Unlike the non-temp controlled iron, the iron could
produce far more watts than needed to heat the tip, and regulate the
temperature with the thermostat. The non-temp regulated iron had to
dissipate the exact amount of watts necessary for the tip to stabilize
at the desired temperature.

Another advantage is a temp controlled iron will not cool down (much)
when the tip is touched to the work. The thermostat senses the drop
in temperature, and increases the current to the heating element to
compensate. Such a temp drop is likely when soldering large gauge
copper wire, which acts as an excellent heat sink to draw heat away
from the joint.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <nskksftcv4c00lrjcq9i7cl4h3euv97vog@4ax.com>,
jeffl@cruzio.com says...

If your other pencil irons (or soldering guns) took several minutes to
heat up, they were probably not temperature controlled. When I
learned to solder about 65 years ago, all I could buy were
non-temperature controlled soldering irons. At the time wood burning
art kits were popular. Make a \"painting\" with a piece of wood and a
wood burning iron. Later, I graduated to essentially the same irons,
but made for electronics. It was perhaps 20 years later, that I was
introduced to a proper temperature controlled soldering iron. The
difference was amazing. The temperature controlled iron (Weller
TC-201T) had a \"magnastat\" thermostat in the iron to control the
temperature. Unlike the non-temp controlled iron, the iron could
produce far more watts than needed to heat the tip, and regulate the
temperature with the thermostat. The non-temp regulated iron had to
dissipate the exact amount of watts necessary for the tip to stabilize
at the desired temperature.

Another advantage is a temp controlled iron will not cool down (much)
when the tip is touched to the work. The thermostat senses the drop
in temperature, and increases the current to the heating element to
compensate. Such a temp drop is likely when soldering large gauge
copper wire, which acts as an excellent heat sink to draw heat away
from the joint.

I went the same route. Years ago I used just the unregulated irons.
Usually in the 30 to 40 watt range was recommended for solid state.
They took a while to heat up. Found out they were just putting out one
heat and depending on the air to limit the temperature.

When I first saw 60 and above wattage irons recommended for solid state
work I thought that was way too much. However they were temperature
controlled and would cut the power up and down to maintain the
temperature to a much more constant heat.

I do have a big soldering gun of around 200 to 300 watts for soldering
the larger stuff If I just want to make one or two quick connections on
larger wiring. If more, I use a big 100 watt iron. It is not
temperature controled, but the tip is about 3/8 inches in diameter and
the flat part is about 1/4 inch thick. It does not cool much on the
larger wire. Lots of thermal mass.

Things have changed a lot for soldering. It used to be get in quick and
use heat sinks on the leads. Now the SMD uses hot air wands and you
play the air over the parts for a while tuil the solder melts.

 

[Transition Zone]

On Friday, December 4, 2020 at 10:54:31 AM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 08:36:01 -0500, OJ Oxford <bes...@none.com> wrote:

Thanks for the update. Some minor comments.
I initially had great difficulties with my various
soldering irons on hand heating up both the connector and the 12 ga
copper wires enough to get an acceptable connection,
More correctly, those were soldering guns, which I consider to be a
really bad idea for soldering XT60 connectors.
I have been working with silver solder too as the
standard had not yet arrived.
Silver alloy solder melts at about the same temperature as 63/37
lead/tin solder. However, 50/50 melts at about 25C higher
temperature. Be sure to adjust the temperature of your new soldering
iron depending on which solder you are using. Also, try not to mix
solders. You can mix 50/50 and 63/37, but not either of these and
lead free RoHS (tin/silver/copper) solders. I\'m not sure about mixing
with silver solder. If you get a solder connection that is dull and
not shiny, clean off as much of the solder as possible and start over
with solder and flux until you get a shiny connection.
I must say that this 60 watt iron heats up
faster than any of my other irons. It is a pencil type and ready to go
in about 15 seconds, where my other pencil units always took several min..
My guess(tm) is the lack of a temperature controlled soldering iron
was the main contributor to your soldering problem because the copper
wire was drawing away all the heat from the joint.

If your other pencil irons (or soldering guns) took several minutes to
heat up, they were probably not temperature controlled. When I
learned to solder about 65 years ago, all I could buy were
non-temperature controlled soldering irons. At the time wood burning
art kits were popular. Make a \"painting\" with a piece of wood and a
wood burning iron. Later, I graduated to essentially the same irons,
but made for electronics. It was perhaps 20 years later, that I was
introduced to a proper temperature controlled soldering iron. The
difference was amazing. The temperature controlled iron (Weller
TC-201T) had a \"magnastat\" thermostat in the iron to control the
temperature. Unlike the non-temp controlled iron, the iron could
produce far more watts than needed to heat the tip, and regulate the
temperature with the thermostat. The non-temp regulated iron had to
dissipate the exact amount of watts necessary for the tip to stabilize
at the desired temperature.

Another advantage is a temp controlled iron will not cool down (much)
when the tip is touched to the work. The thermostat senses the drop
in temperature, and increases the current to the heating element to
compensate. Such a temp drop is likely when soldering large gauge
copper wire, which acts as an excellent heat sink to draw heat away
from the joint.

The low vapor pressures of lead-tin-silver, lead-indium-silver or tin-silver solder alloys or other combinations will be different with desoldering/solder removal vacuum tools. Do they it mix it all together if resuse is needed? I\'ve never used a vacuum for solder removal.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 12:07:14 -0500, Ralph Mowery
<rmowery28146@earthlink.net> wrote:

I went the same route. Years ago I used just the unregulated irons.
Usually in the 30 to 40 watt range was recommended for solid state.
They took a while to heat up. Found out they were just putting out one
heat and depending on the air to limit the temperature.

The fun part was different size tips would produce different tip
temperatures. Tiny sharp tips would get so hot that the tip would
burn out. Large chunky tips would barely get hot enough to melt
solder. Soldering outdoors, in the wind, was somewhere between
difficult and impossible. \"Tinning\" the tip was a ritual not so much
to improve the solder joint, as it was to make sure that the iron was
hot enough to melt solder.

When I first saw 60 and above wattage irons recommended for solid state
work I thought that was way too much. However they were temperature
controlled and would cut the power up and down to maintain the
temperature to a much more constant heat.

Same here with one difference. The temperature controlled irons were
simply too expensive for me to afford in the 1960\'s. Fortunately, I
went to skool near Douglas Aircraft in Santa Monica, CA, which had an
excellent surplus outlet. I bought a large box of Weller soldering
stations featuring thermostatically controlled TC201 soldering irons.
Included was about 200 assorted Weller tips, all burned out. In all
cases, the nickel plating had worn off, exposing the underlying iron
plating which was generally intact. I setup an electroplating system
and was able to re-plate most of the tips. The tips were quite usable
but didn\'t last as long as new tips because I didn\'t use enough nickel
plating. Something like this:

Resurfacing Hakko Tip (Electroplating)
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8hk1Be5W1g> (11:02)

I do have a big soldering gun of around 200 to 300 watts for soldering
the larger stuff If I just want to make one or two quick connections on
larger wiring. If more, I use a big 100 watt iron. It is not
temperature controled, but the tip is about 3/8 inches in diameter and
the flat part is about 1/4 inch thick. It does not cool much on the
larger wire. Lots of thermal mass.

My weapon of choice for soldering big stuff (battery lugs, high
current electrical connections, tinning #8 AWG or larger, shields,
antenna wires, etc) is a propane oven and a big block of copper on a
frying pan handle.
<https://stellartechnical.com/products/1-5-soldering-copper>

For big tip cleaning, I use a block of sal ammoniac (ammonium
chloride):
<https://www.amazon.com/Large-Sal-Ammoniac-Tinning-Block/dp/B0051KK252>
My block was originally about the size of a brick, but has shrunk
considerably after years of use.

Sal Ammoniac How To
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zwtAK46xOs> (7:34)

Things have changed a lot for soldering. It used to be get in quick and
use heat sinks on the leads. Now the SMD uses hot air wands and you
play the air over the parts for a while tuil the solder melts.

Before I bought a hot air SMD workstation, I was using two soldering
irons as if they were tweezers. After having a few too many parts fly
away, never to be seen again, I switched to the hot air system.
However, the parts are so small now that if I blow too much hot air,
they will again fly away, never to be seen again. So, I\'m looking
into an infrared soldering station (also known as an automotive
cigarette lighter on a stick):

Infrared soldering iron with your own hands. 3 WAYS to make an IR
soldering iron yourself.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NWH7ZoVTsA> (10:04)

Ummm... I guess I should mention that none of the soldering systems I
mentioned here will work with XT60 connectors.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558