Xmas Lights - Seriously Unimpressed

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

I finally got around to shopping at Fry's, after abstaining for three
months(!)

Excuses? Oh, I ranted here about Best Buy this morning and how they
were selling 6' USB cables for $27.00 to $32.00. Well, I decided I
might as well go over to Fry's and buy a couple, to see how much they
cost. They're in the $7 to $9 range, as I had expected. I found that I
could get them for even cheaper on Ebay. With a couple bucks for
shipping, they're still under $5, and that's buy it now, not biddding;
if you bid, you can get them for a couple dollars. And the sellers are
still making money on them.

Which leads me to believe that the shysters at Best Buy are probably
paying a price per cable that's below a dollar, including the packaging.
So at $27, they're marking up the price over 2000%, more like 3000%!!!

Anyway, back to reality, I took a look at the 'new' LED xmas tree lights
that they had for $10 to $15 at Fry's. I was seriously unimpressed by
them; they weren't very bright, and they had that characteristic flicker
of half-wave rectified 60 Hz. Each 'bulb' is actually a solid colored
plastic diffuser to get the LED in its base to shine the light in all
directions. I guess that's why they're not so bright.

I stopped by wal-mart and I forgot to check to see if they had the
lights and what the price might be. But after seeing that PBS prog "Is
Wal-mart good for America?" I'm not so sure I want to do business with
them any more. I left the store without even buying anything this time.

I'll have to check on the 'Net to see if they're available at some
websites, and maybe Ebay. Check back later for updates. ;-)



--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com>
wrote in message news:10q0orqo3psqoca@corp.supernews.com...

I finally got around to shopping at Fry's, after abstaining for three
months(!)

Excuses? Oh, I ranted here about Best Buy this morning and how they
were selling 6' USB cables for $27.00 to $32.00. Well, I decided I
might as well go over to Fry's and buy a couple, to see how much they
cost. They're in the $7 to $9 range, as I had expected. I found that
I
could get them for even cheaper on Ebay. With a couple bucks for
shipping, they're still under $5, and that's buy it now, not biddding;
if you bid, you can get them for a couple dollars. And the sellers
are
still making money on them.

Which leads me to believe that the shysters at Best Buy are probably
paying a price per cable that's below a dollar, including the
packaging.
So at $27, they're marking up the price over 2000%, more like 3000%!!!

Anyway, back to reality, I took a look at the 'new' LED xmas tree
lights
that they had for $10 to $15 at Fry's. I was seriously unimpressed by
them; they weren't very bright, and they had that characteristic
flicker
of half-wave rectified 60 Hz. Each 'bulb' is actually a solid colored
plastic diffuser to get the LED in its base to shine the light in all
directions. I guess that's why they're not so bright.

I stopped by wal-mart and I forgot to check to see if they had the
lights and what the price might be. But after seeing that PBS prog
"Is
Wal-mart good for America?" I'm not so sure I want to do business with
them any more. I left the store without even buying anything this
time.

I'll have to check on the 'Net to see if they're available at some
websites, and maybe Ebay. Check back later for updates. ;-)

Mssrs. Crowley and Linden are trying their best to bastardize the thread
with some discussion about PBS sponsors. Maybe they're too immersed in
politics to think about other things, like what I'm talking about that's
on-topic. So I'll just say that I should've mentioned Fry's wanted $60
for a Triton "Warp Drive" USB 2.0 HDD enclosure with 6-in-1 card reader
and USB 2.0 hub built-in. But I found it on Ebay for half that price
(buy it now), or even cheaper with bidding. I should've checked the
details like what shipping and stuff cost, but all of a sudden the PC
rebooted, I'm not sure why. I didn't see the lights flicker, but it's
raining and windy and I would guess that caused a very momentary
interruption in power. So, i'll have to try again.

I looked, and it's ten bucks shipping, The doofus sellers call it
'Tritton' but if you look on the package it says Triton Technologies,
not Tritton. Searching for warp drive USB might be best. I think the
next one I'll be getting will have fire wire, because most of the PCs
are still only USB 1.1.

> --

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 14:47:42 GMT, the renowned "Nicholas O. Lindan"
<see@sig.com> wrote:

"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote

Have you ever seen "Is [name of major PBS underwriter]
Good for America"?

If one is a beggar there is no room for self-respect and
high moral position.

Beggars promise nothing in return for the money, so they have room for
self-respect and high moral position. Consider organized religion, for
example. Politicians, prostitutes and even employees have rather less
room.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

 

[John Walton]

My Christmas Light display, 2001 (no kidding 10kW)

http://www.tech-diy.com/xmashouse.JPG

we skipped WalMart entirely and ordered the lights directly from the Chinese
manufacturer -- getting the name of a box at KMart !


"Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote
in message news:10q1ei282ibhl0d@corp.supernews.com...

"Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com
wrote in message news:10q0orqo3psqoca@corp.supernews.com...
I finally got around to shopping at Fry's, after abstaining for three
months(!)

Excuses? Oh, I ranted here about Best Buy this morning and how they
were selling 6' USB cables for $27.00 to $32.00. Well, I decided I
might as well go over to Fry's and buy a couple, to see how much they
cost. They're in the $7 to $9 range, as I had expected. I found that
I
could get them for even cheaper on Ebay. With a couple bucks for
shipping, they're still under $5, and that's buy it now, not biddding;
if you bid, you can get them for a couple dollars. And the sellers
are
still making money on them.

Which leads me to believe that the shysters at Best Buy are probably
paying a price per cable that's below a dollar, including the
packaging.
So at $27, they're marking up the price over 2000%, more like 3000%!!!

Anyway, back to reality, I took a look at the 'new' LED xmas tree
lights
that they had for $10 to $15 at Fry's. I was seriously unimpressed by
them; they weren't very bright, and they had that characteristic
flicker
of half-wave rectified 60 Hz. Each 'bulb' is actually a solid colored
plastic diffuser to get the LED in its base to shine the light in all
directions. I guess that's why they're not so bright.

I stopped by wal-mart and I forgot to check to see if they had the
lights and what the price might be. But after seeing that PBS prog
"Is
Wal-mart good for America?" I'm not so sure I want to do business with
them any more. I left the store without even buying anything this
time.

I'll have to check on the 'Net to see if they're available at some
websites, and maybe Ebay. Check back later for updates. ;-)

Mssrs. Crowley and Linden are trying their best to bastardize the thread
with some discussion about PBS sponsors. Maybe they're too immersed in
politics to think about other things, like what I'm talking about that's
on-topic. So I'll just say that I should've mentioned Fry's wanted $60
for a Triton "Warp Drive" USB 2.0 HDD enclosure with 6-in-1 card reader
and USB 2.0 hub built-in. But I found it on Ebay for half that price
(buy it now), or even cheaper with bidding. I should've checked the
details like what shipping and stuff cost, but all of a sudden the PC
rebooted, I'm not sure why. I didn't see the lights flicker, but it's
raining and windy and I would guess that caused a very momentary
interruption in power. So, i'll have to try again.

I looked, and it's ten bucks shipping, The doofus sellers call it
'Tritton' but if you look on the package it says Triton Technologies,
not Tritton. Searching for warp drive USB might be best. I think the
next one I'll be getting will have fire wire, because most of the PCs
are still only USB 1.1.

--

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote in
message news:ufq1q0hd44oo3rf4e1kn42mduo3p5cpdif@4ax.com...

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 01:44:55 -0800, "Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the
Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote:


I stopped by wal-mart and I forgot to check to see if they had the
lights and what the price might be. But after seeing that PBS prog
"Is
Wal-mart good for America?" I'm not so sure I want to do business
with
them any more. I left the store without even buying anything this
time.


We don't have Wal-marts here in correctland, but I went to one for my
first time while visiting The Brat at college. I thought it was
great... lots of stuff, great prices, and very friendly people
everywhere to help you find things. I bought four pairs of great
velcro shoes for $14 per pair.

Why do people keep tying shoes? What an anachronism! Shoelaces waste
time, are unreliable, and look silly.

?? Really? Ok, I've never had velcro shoes. But I've never had those
kinds of complaints with laces. I've noticed that the kids of today
don't know much about a lotta things, like shoelaces, and the big hand
and little hand on clocks. Or where potatoes come from. I guess as
they grow up, they'll get over it and learn.

I guess all those PBS editors shop at Williams Sonoma and Nieman
Marcus ("Needless Markup") on their $200K salaries.

John

 

[Robert Monsen]

Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover" wrote:

"Bob G." <forget@it.com> wrote in message
news:fg23q01b05ktkvsr2b0hjjrnmos040i4ek@4ax.com...

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:06:22 -0800, "Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the

Dark

Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote:

No, you implied that you gave PBS some amount of credibility.

Have _you_ ever seen that particular program? I'd say they gave a
balanced view, with both pros and cons. They did give some factual
figures, such as that wal-mart had some very substantial percentagee

of

the goods coming into the port from China.

It's called "Frontline" It's the PBS equivalent of "Dateline" or any

of

the other "..line" hard hitting news expose programs - with the

expected bias

and truth bending to make their point. This one was especially good,

and it had

the same impact on me - I won't shop at Wally World, but the other

stores are

selling the same foreign crap, so what can you do except stop buying

all of it.

Yeah, like that's gonna happen. I particularly liked the trade deficit

numbers

quoted. No surprise there.


The program and the URLs I gave showed the cheap China imports problem
isn't the only. or even the major problem with Wal-mart. The problems
are that they are under employing people - below poverty level wages -
and they make it impossible for most workers to afford health benefits.
And to top it off, the supercenters devastate neighborhoods by
undercutting the mom-and-pop stores, thereby chasing them out.

This isn't bias and truth bending. The facts and figures are there.

Well, that's a fairly "Reality Based" view of things... Watt, haven't
you learned that 2+2=5? I expect you are in for a visit from the
ministry of truth.

Karl Marx pointed out that the ultimate stage of capitalism is the
reduction of all social and human values to a numeric figure, its
monetary value. Economic worth becomes the only criterion by which we
can compare and judge the value of a thing, because economic worth is
the metric of worth to the society, as opposed to its worth to an
individual. Were he alive today, he might say that the existence of Wall
Mart is simply a playing out of the forces that were put into play
during the feudalism of the middle ages.

In the meantime, those prices just keep rolling back!

--
Regards,
Robert Monsen

"Your Highness, I have no need of this hypothesis."
- Pierre Laplace (1749-1827), to Napoleon,
on why his works on celestial mechanics make no mention of God.

 

[JeffM]

the cheap China imports problem isn't the only
--or even the major problem with Wal-mart.
The problems are that they are under employing people
- below poverty level wages -
and they make it impossible for most workers to afford health benefits.
And to top it off, the supercenters devastate neighborhoods
by undercutting the mom-and-pop stores, thereby chasing them out.
Watt Sun

This presentation didn't even mention the way when one township rejects them
they go to the low-rent district that abuts the town and set up there.
The get a sweetheart deal on tax breaks with the hard-pressed city gov't there.
When the tax breaks run out, they pull up stakes and find a new bunch of suckers,
leaving in their wake a town devoid of Mom & Pop businesses.

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"repatch" <repatch42@yahoo.com> wrote in message
newsan.2004.11.22.15.56.04.982193@yahoo.com...

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 03:36:08 -0800, Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the
Dark
Remover" wrote:

The program and the URLs I gave showed the cheap China imports
problem
isn't the only. or even the major problem with Wal-mart. The
problems are
that they are under employing people - below poverty level wages -
and
they make it impossible for most workers to afford health benefits.
And to
top it off, the supercenters devastate neighborhoods by undercutting
the
mom-and-pop stores, thereby chasing them out.

This isn't bias and truth bending. The facts and figures are there.

If somebody shoots someone with a gun who do you blame: the person who
pulled the trigger, or the gun?

??? We're talking about something else.

Walmart is only doing what the CONSUMERS want. If consumers want low
prices Walmart will give it to them.

Do you REALLY think that if Walmart DIDN'T do it noone else would?

That is what capitalism IS, live with it.

I don't know how old you are, but I'm old enough to remember the first
time ('70s) the Japanese (Matsushita) dumped TVs on the american market
and put most of the domestic TV makers out of business. And don't give
me that BS about "live with it". The Japanese gov't found them guilty
of dumping, and they were fined $150 million. Yeah, $150 million.
That's not something any competing ompany should have to "live with".

This time, the Japanes are getting some of their own medicine. The
Chinese are dumping TVs onto the Japanese market and putting a lot of
pressure on the Japanese domestic TV makers to cut their prices to be
competitive.

But the U.S. Int'l Trade Commission has found the Chinese TV makers
guilty of dumping, and now imposes a tariff on each TV set. That's
again not a case of doing what the consumers want, dumping is a case of
doing what the competitors can't compete against. You don't seem to see
the forest for the trees.
http://japan.usembassy.gov/e/p/tp-20040419-21.html

 

[Robert Monsen]

Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover" wrote:

"JeffM" <jeffm_@email.com> wrote in message
news:f8b945bc.0411221556.1e71695f@posting.google.com...

you gave PBS some amount of credibility
Richard Crowley

If Watt Sun won't, I will.
Investigative reporting by commercial television broadcasters
is mush and has been for about a decade.
Even 60 Minutes is half pop-culture junk now.

If you want to see television that doesn't bend over for corporations,
PBS is the last bastion--Bill Moyers and Frontline,
The NewsHour has softened a bit.


"Now, with Bill Moyers" (and David Bronwhateverhisnameis).

That's David (man he looks like Michaelangelo's David) Brancaccio. He
used to do Marketplace for NPR. Looks like old Bill's gonna retire in
Dec, and David is going to carry the flame for the left.

--
Regards,
Robert Monsen

"Your Highness, I have no need of this hypothesis."
- Pierre Laplace (1749-1827), to Napoleon,
on why his works on celestial mechanics make no mention of God.

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Richard Crowley wrote:

"JeffM" wrote ...
This presentation didn't even mention the way when one
township rejects them they go to the low-rent district that
abuts the town and set up there. The get a sweetheart deal
on tax breaks with the hard-pressed city gov't there. When
the tax breaks run out, they pull up stakes and find a new
bunch of suckers, leaving in their wake a town devoid of
Mom & Pop businesses.

What an excelent place to start a Mom & Pop business. But
I guess Neo-Libs who have become dependent on the nanny
state don't think in those terms. Seriously unimpressed sums
up my view of this useless thread. Bye.
------------------------------------

The big shits takethe capital they stole with them when they
pull up stakes!

Another shit-brained neocon with catch-phrases for a mind.

If bandits came to town he would try to finance them and not
grasp why he was being tortured to death when we caught him.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Richard Crowley wrote:

Watson A.Name wrote ...
Mssrs. Crowley and Linden are trying their best to bastardize
the thread with some discussion about PBS sponsors. Maybe
they're too immersed in politics to think about other things, like
what I'm talking about that's on-topic.

Excuse me, but you, Mr. Name are the one who injected PBS
and their schockumentaries into the thread in your original post.
I'm getting really tired of leftist politics tainting Usenet.
---------------------------

The Truth is what Usenet is for!
YOU'RE the taint, you shit-minded neocon!

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[Keith]

"JeffM" <jeffm_@email.com> wrote in message
news:f8b945bc.0411221556.1e71695f@posting.google.com...

If you want to see television that doesn't bend over for corporations,
PBS is the last bastion--

And on the other hand, if you want to see television that bends over for
gays(I just couldn't resist), tree-huggers, gun-control nuts, democratic
presidents(and presidential candidates) and senators, and the rest of the
wacko left-wing causes, simply watch CBS, ABC, NBC, or the rest of the
main-stream media.

It's funny how the majority of the people voting anti-business have no
problems patronizing our malls, shopping at Wal-Mart, etc. Wal-Mart exists
because consumers want low prices, and Wal-Mart gives it to them. The same
people who are on the news talking about "it's such a shame to see Wal-Mart
destroy the local businesses" finish up their rants with, "oh, btw, when is
it going to open?". If everyone boycotted Wal-Mart, there would be no
Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart adds considerable tax revenue to any town --- money that
the Mom and Pop shops weren't generating. In addition, Wal-Mart's also puts
money back in the communities, in terms of donations to charities, improving
the local infrastructure, etc. When local people complain about Wal-Mart,
the number one reason I see stated is that it adds too much traffic to an
area. Traffic = tax revenue generation. Doesn't sound bad to me..... Tax
revenue generation = money to widen roads, improve school districts, etc.

I still have yet to figure out why the baby boomer generation will pay three
times more for the same exact product by shopping at a Mom and Pop shop.
This is certainly anecdotal and you can place whatever worth you want on it.

There is a Mom and Pop hardware store down the street from my parent's
house. It's a fairly high-volume store, just looking at the parking lot,
and the people in the store, they certainly don't do bad. This place,
despite getting tons of business, repeatedly marks up the products OVER the
MSRP. Wal-Marts, Targets, Home Depot, Lowe's, etc are consistently under
the MSRP. Why does the Mom and Pop shop think that overcharging and gouging
consumers is OK? This locally-owned hardware store is affiliated with some
national chain, and I'm sure gets reasonable margins off the list price.
There certainly seems to be no problem with volume at this store although
they can't compete with the volume of Home Depot etc, but their business is
very steady.

Paying $8.00 for a $3.00 part simply isn't acceptable in my eyes. If
Wal-mart offers the SAME PRODUCT(same brand, same quality, etc) at a lower
price, I have to shop there. And most of America agrees with me, most
people shop there too. You can't argue that the community suffers as a
result, because the pure tax revenues and jobs created well exceed what had
been in place before.

You can also argue the differences in terms of service too, but I've been on
my soapbox long enough.

I believe in the power of the people. If you don't want Wal-Marts in your
area, good. Mobilize your troops, get the community involved, and chase
them out. Boycott them. Elect people to your local government who share
your interests.

Keith
Pittsburgh

 

[repatch]

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:43:37 -0800, Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark
Remover" wrote:

No, as I said above they screwed their own people to make inroads into the
U.S. domestic TV market. Simply shifting the costs.

As for FAIR prices, the gov't charged these companies with dumping them at
UNfair prices, below FAIR market value.

Some would call it dumping, others would call it a very clever tactic.

And why shouldn't they? If the Chinese can make TVs cheaper why
shouldn't
they? Why as a consumer should I pay MORE for the EXACT SAME THING??

Wal-mart is dictating to the Chinese mfgrs what price they will pay, and
in so doing are damaging the Chinese economy. But they can do it because
they have such a large percentage of the total Chinese exports.

Excuse me, but if Walmart "dictates" a price, and that price CAN be met,
what's wrong with that? What is wrong with efficiency?

If they can't compete they shouldn't be in business. They have been
over
charging consumers for years, and consumers are supposed to defend
them??

WTF is the matter with you? Overcharging? They're losing their behinds
and having to move all their production overseas. Those jobs that are
lost are _your_ jobs, so now you can't even afford to buy the goods!
HAR-HAR!

That's simply not how it works. Lets look at Japan. They USED to be the
number one sellers of "cheap stuff", now they are the number one sellers
of some expensive stuff (i.e. cars, electronics, gadgets). How did they do
that?

Just because something is made in the US today doesn't mean it SHOULD be
made there. If manufacturing of some items is cheaper in other countries
it should be made in those other countries, the extra capacity in the
states will mean other things will be made.

There's alot of fear mongering about "off shoring" that goes on, I don't
buy it at all. If off shoring were as bad as SOME try to make us believe
North America would be a desert.

You don't seem to see the forest for the trees.

I simply see things like this: if a company can't compete they
shouldn't
use my tax money to artificially keep them going.

This would be true if the playing field were level. But it's not. And
that's why the gov't is putting tariffs on the goods. To level the
playing field.

Level playing field??? What the heck are you talking about? If it costs $2
to make paper cup in NA and only $0.05 in China, why, as a consumer,
should I buy the $2 paper cup???? The answer is there is NO reason I buy
the $2 paper cup. Paper cup manufacturing SHOULD be done in China, and the
capacity freed up on the paper cup lines can be dedicated to something
else, i.e. making plastic cups.

Which would you rather have? A decent wage in a decent economy, or no
job, on welfare, in a country that's turning into a third world economy?

There is NO evidence that the country would turn into a "third world
economy". What will simply happen is production of some items will be done
elsewhere, and other industry will come to bear in the coutry you're in.
No third world.

On top of that, do you REALLY think I'd choose an economy where I'm paying
10X more for paper cups just to subsidize the workers making the $2 paper
cups???

It's your choice.

Yes it is, and my choice isn't one of the "options" you gave me since
neither is valid.

 

[Doug Schultz]

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote in
message news:rsc9q0linmkq0r86h6sdmd32jti2dg7hnm@4ax.com...

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 12:15:25 GMT, "Tim" <midwestmeteor@earthlink.net
wrote:

GREAT PRICE, too bad its all made in China and no here.

We need jobs for people here, thanks for helping, your a good shopper
too bad your kids won't be able to buy anything there because they
won't have a job.



The fact is that people in China and Indonesia and Africa need jobs,
too. In fact, they need them a lot worse than we do, for basic things
like food and medicine and keeping their kids alive. Did you buy an
American made DVD player, TV, bench vise, or dinner plates? Grapes?
Flowers? Lumber?

My kids will do fine, and I hope those Chinese and African kids will,
too. People are people.

John

Dont mean to butt in here but I also think that if you shop at Walmart you
deserve the Poverty level wage you are going to end up with.
If you support poverty wages then no one who pays real wages can compete.
so your wage will eventually be a poverty wage as your sector of employment
becomes swallowed in the eddie.

Doug

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote in
message news:m3oeq0dktlhnqcgnha32i1eu70spdpcc7c@4ax.com...

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 05:46:21 GMT, "George Jetson"
George.Rkindig@neo.rr.com.Jetson> wrote:

"Doug Schultz" <Douglas_Schultz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7yspd.339170$%k.306131@pd7tw2no...

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote
in
message news:rsc9q0linmkq0r86h6sdmd32jti2dg7hnm@4ax.com...
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 12:15:25 GMT, "Tim"
midwestmeteor@earthlink.net
wrote:

GREAT PRICE, too bad its all made in China and no here.

We need jobs for people here, thanks for helping, your a good
shopper
too bad your kids won't be able to buy anything there because they
won't have a job.



The fact is that people in China and Indonesia and Africa need
jobs,
too. In fact, they need them a lot worse than we do, for basic
things
like food and medicine and keeping their kids alive. Did you buy
an
American made DVD player, TV, bench vise, or dinner plates?
Grapes?
Flowers? Lumber?

My kids will do fine, and I hope those Chinese and African kids
will,
too. People are people.

John



Dont mean to butt in here but I also think that if you shop at
Walmart you
deserve the Poverty level wage you are going to end up with.
If you support poverty wages then no one who pays real wages can
compete.
so your wage will eventually be a poverty wage as your sector of
employment becomes swallowed in the eddie.


That makes no sense. Employers compete for employees from a common
pool of available workers, and they use wages and benefits to convince
people to work for them and to stay. Wal-mart can't just decide to pay
arbitrarily low wages; they can only get workers by offering them a
better deal than they could get somewhere else. I noticed that most of
the Wal-mart floor workers were either very young or very old; both
are probably grateful for having a better job than anybody else
offered them.

The very old workers were very likely secure in their retirement or
income. The very young workers probably don't have a family to support
or a bunch of medical bills. Wal-mart doesn't pay enough, that's a
given. But they're big enough that they don't have to. Just like Radio
Shack[1].

Your last sentence with the word grateful, is certainly not the way I
see it. The "better job" bit is just not true. A minimum wage job at
less than 40 hours a week (yes, they are only working 32 hours) is not a
"better job." It's what no one else wants, because they can't live on
those wages. It's a job that's below poverty level. See
http://slate.msn.com/id/2104988/ which said about Wal-mart: "The
company's labor policies are state-of-the-art, for the 1890s."

And what really ticks me off about Wal-mart is those damn commercials
where they brag about helping the community. That's just a coverup for
the damage that they really do. They probably do it because they have
been beat on so much by the media, local gov'ts and advocacy groups that
they had to do something to not look so bad.

[1] All the 25 years that (at work) I have walked across the street to
Radio Shack, and I have never seen any employee stay at that store for
more than a year. They're mostly male, but there is an occasional
female. They make substandard wages and are given the incentive to sell
by getting a commission of a certain low percentage of some sales.
That's why they're always trying to sell you cell phones or satellite
dishes. I don't think Wal-mart even offers their employees a
commission. Go figure.

As for your last sentence below, the 'cheap labor supplier' bit isn't
the way that some countries work. Some countries export finished goods
or raw materials and only to other nearby countries where they have a
competitive advantage. They haven't been exploited yet by other
countries.

Doug


That's no eddy mate, we're all doing circles around the bowl. I dont
believe the public will ever do whats for the common good, buying the
cheapest one posible is going to get us all.


Whose common good? Just the people in the US, or all the people in the
world?

Once everybody becomes middle-class, imports will no longer have an
economic advantage. The cheap-imports-from-cheap-labor situation is
just a transient condition. Europe, Japan, and Korea were once
cheap-labor suppliers.

Being a low-cost exporter is a positive step on the way to being
developed and wealthy. China and India and Mexico are there now; too
bad most of Africa isn't developed enough yet to be a cheap-labor
supplier.

John

 

[James T. White]

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote in message
news:m3oeq0dktlhnqcgnha32i1eu70spdpcc7c@4ax.com...

That makes no sense. Employers compete for employees from a common
pool of available workers, and they use wages and benefits to convince
people to work for them and to stay. Wal-mart can't just decide to pay
arbitrarily low wages; they can only get workers by offering them a
better deal than they could get somewhere else. I noticed that most of
the Wal-mart floor workers were either very young or very old; both
are probably grateful for having a better job than anybody else
offered them.

John,

What makes you think they can't just decide to pay a substandard wage? That is
exactly what Walmart does to their suppliers by setting arbitrarily low prices
they are willing to pay for goods. When suppliers couldn't go that low on goods
manufactured in the US, Walmart was very quick to suggest moving the
manufacturing offshore. As far as Walmart is concerned, labor costs are just
another cost to be minimized.

--
James T. White

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 19:49:48 -0600, "James T. White"
<SPAMjtwhiteGUARD@SPAMhal-pcGUARD.org> wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote in message
news:m3oeq0dktlhnqcgnha32i1eu70spdpcc7c@4ax.com...

That makes no sense. Employers compete for employees from a common
pool of available workers, and they use wages and benefits to convince
people to work for them and to stay. Wal-mart can't just decide to pay
arbitrarily low wages; they can only get workers by offering them a
better deal than they could get somewhere else. I noticed that most of
the Wal-mart floor workers were either very young or very old; both
are probably grateful for having a better job than anybody else
offered them.


John,

What makes you think they can't just decide to pay a substandard wage?

Because nobody would work for them if they could get a better deal
somewhere else. No different from IBM or NASA.

That is
exactly what Walmart does to their suppliers by setting arbitrarily low prices
they are willing to pay for goods. When suppliers couldn't go that low on goods
manufactured in the US, Walmart was very quick to suggest moving the
manufacturing offshore. As far as Walmart is concerned, labor costs are just
another cost to be minimized.

Of course! That's what business does.

All businesses effectively go out for bids for materials and labor,
and pick the low bidder at the desired quality level. Tiffany's does
this for diamonds as much as Wal-mart does this for balloons. That's
the way a market economy works. Nobody is forced to work for Wal-mart,
and they won't if they can find a better-paying or more convenient job
somewhere else.

Sears was famous for squeezing their suppliers almost to death; I
doubt that Saks or Gucci give contracts to the high bidders, or have
"buy America" policies.

John

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"James T. White" <SPAMjtwhiteGUARD@SPAMhal-pcGUARD.org> wrote in message
news:41a7dcc4$0$76333$a726171b@news.hal-pc.org...

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote in
message
news:m3oeq0dktlhnqcgnha32i1eu70spdpcc7c@4ax.com...

That makes no sense. Employers compete for employees from a common
pool of available workers, and they use wages and benefits to
convince
people to work for them and to stay. Wal-mart can't just decide to
pay
arbitrarily low wages; they can only get workers by offering them a
better deal than they could get somewhere else. I noticed that most
of
the Wal-mart floor workers were either very young or very old; both
are probably grateful for having a better job than anybody else
offered them.


John,

What makes you think they can't just decide to pay a substandard wage?
That is
exactly what Walmart does to their suppliers by setting arbitrarily
low prices
they are willing to pay for goods. When suppliers couldn't go that
low on goods
manufactured in the US, Walmart was very quick to suggest moving the
manufacturing offshore. As far as Walmart is concerned, labor costs
are just
another cost to be minimized.

Exactly. Read this article, and look past the political diatribe, to
the stats.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2104988/

I quote:
"The average wage at Wal-Mart, which has no unions and bitterly opposes
raising the minimum wage, is lower than Costco's lowest wage. Turnover
at Wal-Mart, according to the Economist, is 44 percent, meaning it "has
to hire an astonishing 600,000 people every year simply to stay at its
current size.""

Speak of the devil! I'm watching the local news, and they are showing a
piece about the Wal-mart heiress scandal and they say the stadium named
after her will have its name changed. See
http://www.wane.com/Global/story.asp?S=2617213

--
James T. White

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote in
message news:e3ofq01ebinoavgbcrf693dh7f910cb2cl@4ax.com...

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 19:49:48 -0600, "James T. White"
SPAMjtwhiteGUARD@SPAMhal-pcGUARD.org> wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote
in message
news:m3oeq0dktlhnqcgnha32i1eu70spdpcc7c@4ax.com...

That makes no sense. Employers compete for employees from a common
pool of available workers, and they use wages and benefits to
convince
people to work for them and to stay. Wal-mart can't just decide to
pay
arbitrarily low wages; they can only get workers by offering them a
better deal than they could get somewhere else. I noticed that most
of
the Wal-mart floor workers were either very young or very old; both
are probably grateful for having a better job than anybody else
offered them.


John,

What makes you think they can't just decide to pay a substandard
wage?

Because nobody would work for them if they could get a better deal
somewhere else. No different from IBM or NASA.

That's exactly what's happening!! They have more than a half million
workers quitting every year! http://slate.msn.com/id/2104988/

[snip]

At least with Wal-mart they're up front about it from the beginning.
There are other companies that are not, such as this one.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/savecampaign/message/186

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 18:30:57 -0800, "Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the
Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote:

"James T. White" <SPAMjtwhiteGUARD@SPAMhal-pcGUARD.org> wrote in message
news:41a7dcc4$0$76333$a726171b@news.hal-pc.org...
"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote in
message
news:m3oeq0dktlhnqcgnha32i1eu70spdpcc7c@4ax.com...

That makes no sense. Employers compete for employees from a common
pool of available workers, and they use wages and benefits to
convince
people to work for them and to stay. Wal-mart can't just decide to
pay
arbitrarily low wages; they can only get workers by offering them a
better deal than they could get somewhere else. I noticed that most
of
the Wal-mart floor workers were either very young or very old; both
are probably grateful for having a better job than anybody else
offered them.


John,

What makes you think they can't just decide to pay a substandard wage?
That is
exactly what Walmart does to their suppliers by setting arbitrarily
low prices
they are willing to pay for goods. When suppliers couldn't go that
low on goods
manufactured in the US, Walmart was very quick to suggest moving the
manufacturing offshore. As far as Walmart is concerned, labor costs
are just
another cost to be minimized.

Exactly. Read this article, and look past the political diatribe, to
the stats.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2104988/

I quote:
"The average wage at Wal-Mart, which has no unions and bitterly opposes
raising the minimum wage, is lower than Costco's lowest wage. Turnover
at Wal-Mart, according to the Economist, is 44 percent, meaning it "has
to hire an astonishing 600,000 people every year simply to stay at its
current size.""

McDonalds has an even larger turnover, something incredible like 300%
per year. That makes WalMart and McDonalds, in effect, into
entry-level job-training organizations. So a kid can get a low-paying
job there, learn some work skills, get some references, and move on to
a better job. Doesn't sound all that anti-social to me.

Really, the market works pretty well, or at least a lot better than
anything else. If there weren't willing customers and willing
employees, WalMart wouldn't have grown from nothing. The customers and
employees created WalMart, not the other way around.

John