Xilinx Xact software for XC2018 Logic Cell Array

[rombios]

I bought a few of these on ebay but I cant find Xilinx Xact software
needed to design with these FPGAs

Can someone point me in the right direction?
Anyone have a copy I can buy?


sincerely
hungry student

 

[Ed McGettigan]

On May 22, 11:40 pm, rombios <h...@here.com> wrote:

I bought a few of these on ebay but I cant find Xilinx Xact software
needed to design with these FPGAs

Can someone point me in the right direction?
Anyone have a copy I can buy?

sincerely
hungry student

These devices are not worth your time and energy to try to use. Get a
low cost Spartan-3A board and use the free ISE Webpack software.

Ed McGettigan
--
Xilinx Inc.

 

[fpgahobbyist]

These devices are not worth your time and energy to try to use. Get a
low cost Spartan-3A board and use the free ISE Webpack software.

Ed McGettigan

Id like to build a board around these chips (simple projects to aid the
learning process - which is not limited to hdl digital design but board
manufacturing as well).

More "modern" fpgas come in formfactors that make it all but impossible
to solder at home.

The xc2xxx and xc3xxx chips come in plcc68/84 arrangements. I can buy plcc
to dip sockets cheap from many online electronic retailers as well as
ebay.

I did something like these for the xc9xxxx CPLD's which are still
supported in xilinx webpack software

Listen, it would really help if I can buy XACT. I dont need support, just
the software. If its reached end-of-life, I assume you guys would post it
AS IS on some ftp server link right?

For what its worth future projects that advance past what am working on
would benefit from the spartan series ...

 

[John Adair]

I'd second Ed's opinion. These devices were released circa 20-25 years
ago and their only useful place now is a museum. Almost anyone that
does have software for these will have a reason like long term product
maintainence and they are unlikely to let go the software.

John Adair
Enterpoint Ltd. - Home of Merrick1. The FPGA HPC Solution.

On 23 May, 07:40, rombios <h...@here.com> wrote:

I bought a few of these on ebay but I cant find Xilinx Xact software
needed to design with these FPGAs

Can someone point me in the right direction?
Anyone have a copy I can buy?

sincerely
hungry student

 

[Paul Carpenter]

In article <1274684612.909547@nntp.aceinnovative.com>,
nothere@onearth.com says...

These devices are not worth your time and energy to try to use. Get a
low cost Spartan-3A board and use the free ISE Webpack software.

Ed McGettigan

Id like to build a board around these chips (simple projects to aid the
learning process - which is not limited to hdl digital design but board
manufacturing as well).

Well you are looking at small FPGA/large CPLD then for HDL language, get
yourself afew schmart boards which make TQFP and similar easier for hobby
or learning process that suit the available PLD/FPGA devices you can get.

Use the available software Xilinx/Altera/Lattice/.......

More "modern" fpgas come in formfactors that make it all but impossible
to solder at home.

There are variants in TQFP, that can be hand soldered using Schmart
boards or get a demo board.

The xc2xxx and xc3xxx chips come in plcc68/84 arrangements. I can buy plcc
to dip sockets cheap from many online electronic retailers as well as
ebay.

More devices are available in TQFP.

I did something like these for the xc9xxxx CPLD's which are still
supported in xilinx webpack software

Listen, it would really help if I can buy XACT. I dont need support, just
the software. If its reached end-of-life, I assume you guys would post it
AS IS on some ftp server link right?

For what its worth future projects that advance past what am working on
would benefit from the spartan series ...

Then get the Spartan demo board now and don't waste your money on dead
ends.

Schmart boards are easy to find, hust do a google search.

--
Paul Carpenter | paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk
<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/> PC Services
<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/fonts/> Timing Diagram Font
<http://www.gnuh8.org.uk/> GNU H8 - compiler & Renesas H8/H8S/H8 Tiny
<http://www.badweb.org.uk/> For those web sites you hate

 

[John_H]

On May 24, 3:03 am, fpgahobbyist <noth...@onearth.com> wrote:

Id like to build a board around these chips (simple projects to aid the
learning process - which is not limited to hdl digital design but board
manufacturing as well).

I'd suggest you'll get very little education on modern board
fabrication from producing a through-hole board. You actually *want*
to use surface mount caps, resistors, and hand-solderable TQFP
devices. And you'll want to lose the 5V unless you're doing analog
and/or RF.

Listen, it would really help if I can buy XACT. I dont need support, just
the software. If its reached end-of-life, I assume you guys would post it
AS IS on some ftp server link right?

The XC2000 series reached end-of-life around 2000. You're a DECADE
past that point. There is no point.

 

[Herbert Kleebauer]

fpgahobbyist wrote:

These devices are not worth your time and energy to try to use. Get a
low cost Spartan-3A board and use the free ISE Webpack software.

Id like to build a board around these chips (simple projects to aid the
learning process - which is not limited to hdl digital design but board
manufacturing as well).

More "modern" fpgas come in formfactors that make it all but impossible
to solder at home.

Seems hobbyists are no market in these days. Sure, they maybe only buy
10 pieces, but if this is done by many people then this my become still
a big quantity. I really would like to see a FPGA in PLCC84 package
with 5 V I/O voltage (and maybe an additional smaller core voltage).
There are still much older TTL gates so why shouldn't there also be a
XC3195 (including the developement software).

The xc2xxx and xc3xxx chips come in plcc68/84 arrangements. I can buy plcc
to dip sockets cheap from many online electronic retailers as well as
ebay.

I did something like these for the xc9xxxx CPLD's which are still
supported in xilinx webpack software

Listen, it would really help if I can buy XACT. I dont need support, just
the software. If its reached end-of-life, I assume you guys would post it
AS IS on some ftp server link right?

I really can understand you, but it's not so simple to get
a working Viewlogic/XACT system. You will need a DOS-PC
(a real DOS, not a DOS box in Windows) a graphics card
which provides the graphic mode Viewlogic needs and a
three button V24 mouse. And then you need the original
software because both, Viewlogic and XACT use a parallel
port dongle (but this should be the smallest problems,
because they seem to be simple passive dongles of the first
generation). But on the other side you will get a professional
system (ok, Viewlogic was quite expensive compared to the
free Webpack). We still have a laboratory course were we use
Vielogic/XACT using a XC3195 FPGA. And we have saved a few old
PCs and V24 mouses as a replacement because the course will
die when we run out of old hardware. And we can't convert
it to the actual ISE software, because then we would need
twice the time for the course which simple isn't available.

We have converted a simpler course (implementation of an
extremely simple CPU in about 10 hours) using a DARNAW1
board and ISI9 (schematic entry, not VHDL). This design
is so simple that you nearly can't make any design error,
but still the students now need at least 50% more time
to finish the course. But at least this can be used as
a good example what happens if you let software engineers
develop software. The Viewlogic system seems was written
by hardware engineers to support their daily work. When
the system become popular (despite it's prices), software
engineers where hired and that seems was the end of
Vielogic (I installed the Windows version of Vielogic,
but removed it immediately). Every software engineer should
be forced to work whit his product for a few month, then
we would have much better software.

 

[fpgahobbyist]

Seems hobbyists are no market in these days. Sure, they maybe only buy
10 pieces, but if this is done by many people then this my become still
a big quantity. I really would like to see a FPGA in PLCC84 package with
5 V I/O voltage (and maybe an additional smaller core voltage). There
are still much older TTL gates so why shouldn't there also be a XC3195
(including the developement software).

I completely agree. I have done a lot of projects, some I have sold, some
I have given away. Its great to be able to design/develop without a HUGE
investment in manufacturing tools (for smd parts)

This is another reason I maintain a large stock of 22v10 in dip and plcc
form along with an assorted collection of 8bit micros in dip form as well.

Lately I have been trying to get a hold of the xc95xxx CPLD's and the
Altera EPM71XX parts.

Guess Ill have to dump these xc2018/30xx parts ;(

 

[glen herrmannsfeldt]

In comp.arch.fpga John Adair <g1@enterpoint.co.uk> wrote:

I'd second Ed's opinion. These devices were released circa 20-25 years
ago and their only useful place now is a museum. Almost anyone that
does have software for these will have a reason like long term product
maintainence and they are unlikely to let go the software.

When I first knew about FPGAs, about 15 years ago, XC2000 devices
were still in the book, but no-one I knew used them.

I believe that Xilinx still has software for XC4000 devices on
their web site, and I might even believe that some would still
use them. If you want a hobbyist device, go for XC4000 series.

-- glen

 

[d_s_klein]

On May 24, 9:28 am, glen herrmannsfeldt <g...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:

In comp.arch.fpga John Adair <g...@enterpoint.co.uk> wrote:

I'd second Ed's opinion. These devices were released circa 20-25 years
ago and their only useful place now is a museum. Almost anyone that
does have software for these will have a reason like long term product
maintainence and they are unlikely to let go the software.

When I first knew about FPGAs, about 15 years ago, XC2000 devices
were still in the book, but no-one I knew used them.

I believe that Xilinx still has software for XC4000 devices on
their web site, and I might even believe that some would still
use them.  If you want a hobbyist device, go for XC4000 series.

-- glen

I disagree with the suggestion to use an XC4000. HDL support for this
family (and the Spartan/SpartanXL) ended 5+ years ago. And by ended,
I mean that there is no legal way of obtaining the necessary software.

RK

 

[John Adair]

Depending on what you want to achieve there are ways to make boards
simple by using modules like our previously mentioned Darnaw1. There
are also the DIL format Craignell1 http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/component_replacements/craignell.html
and Craignell2 http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/component_replacements/craignell2.html
modules. These modules allow you to develop your own carrier board but
handle the complex and costly BGA bit for you.

There are other low cost products like our Polmaddie series
http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/polmaddie/polmaddie_family.html offer ways
into FPGA and CPLD technology at not a lot of cost. These particular
boards sell 1 off at GBP 40 (approx USD 60, Euro 50) in one off and
you get a free programming cable (parallel port) for that money. Club
together with a couple of friends and you can get free worldwide
shipping on our web shop if you can get the order over GBP 100.

All of these products are bought by hobby engineers. Tools for all of
the above are free to download. We also use 0.1 inch/ 2.54mm pitch
headers/sockets a lot to facilitate hobby and student markets with
many customers even building their add ons with simple stripboard.

John Adair
Enterpoint Ltd.

On 24 May, 18:19, fpgahobbyist <noth...@onearth.com> wrote:

Seems hobbyists are no market in these days. Sure, they maybe only buy
10 pieces, but if this is done by many people then this my become still
a big quantity. I really would like to see a FPGA in PLCC84 package with
5 V I/O voltage (and maybe an additional smaller core voltage). There
are still much older TTL gates so why shouldn't there also be a XC3195
(including the developement software).

I completely agree. I have done a lot of projects, some I have sold, some
I have given away. Its great to be able to design/develop without a HUGE
investment in manufacturing tools (for smd parts)

This is another reason I maintain a large stock of 22v10 in dip and plcc
form along with an assorted collection of 8bit micros in dip form as well.

Lately I have been trying to get a hold of the xc95xxx CPLD's and the
Altera EPM71XX parts.

Guess Ill have to dump these xc2018/30xx parts ;(

 

[Gabor]

On May 24, 1:33 pm, d_s_klein <d_s_kl...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On May 24, 9:28 am, glen herrmannsfeldt <g...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:

In comp.arch.fpga John Adair <g...@enterpoint.co.uk> wrote:

I'd second Ed's opinion. These devices were released circa 20-25 years
ago and their only useful place now is a museum. Almost anyone that
does have software for these will have a reason like long term product
maintainence and they are unlikely to let go the software.

When I first knew about FPGAs, about 15 years ago, XC2000 devices
were still in the book, but no-one I knew used them.

I believe that Xilinx still has software for XC4000 devices on
their web site, and I might even believe that some would still
use them.  If you want a hobbyist device, go for XC4000 series.

-- glen

I disagree with the suggestion to use an XC4000.  HDL support for this
family (and the Spartan/SpartanXL) ended 5+ years ago.  And by ended,
I mean that there is no legal way of obtaining the necessary software.

RK

I'll third that opinion. Also the XC4000 series is much more
expensive
than many newer, larger, faster devices. If you want 5V tolerance,
look into Spartan 2, also long in the tooth but supported by ISE 10.1
and available in VQ and TQ package types.

Regards,
Gabor

 

[glen herrmannsfeldt]

In comp.arch.fpga d_s_klein <d_s_klein@yahoo.com> wrote:
(snip, I wrote)

I believe that Xilinx still has software for XC4000 devices on
their web site, and I might even believe that some would still
use them.  If you want a hobbyist device, go for XC4000 series.

I disagree with the suggestion to use an XC4000. HDL support for this
family (and the Spartan/SpartanXL) ended 5+ years ago. And by ended,
I mean that there is no legal way of obtaining the necessary software.

I meant it in the sense that one shouldn't go farther back than that.

I thought the software was on the "Classic" section of the Xilinx
web site, but didn't try actually installing it.

-- glen

 

[Gabor]

On May 24, 3:09 pm, glen herrmannsfeldt <g...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:

In comp.arch.fpga d_s_klein <d_s_kl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
(snip, I wrote)

I believe that Xilinx still has software for XC4000 devices on
their web site, and I might even believe that some would still
use them.  If you want a hobbyist device, go for XC4000 series.
I disagree with the suggestion to use an XC4000.  HDL support for this
family (and the Spartan/SpartanXL) ended 5+ years ago.  And by ended,
I mean that there is no legal way of obtaining the necessary software.

I meant it in the sense that one shouldn't go farther back than that.

I thought the software was on the "Classic" section of the Xilinx
web site, but didn't try actually installing it.

-- glen

I'm still running version 4.1 of the Xilinx tools, but the
"Foundation"
not "ISE" version. You can still get ISE 4.1, but it doesn't include
synthesis or schematics, so you'd need some third party tools
to make up the gap. Xilinx no longer offers the original Foundation
versions, since they don't own the third party (Aldec) content. The
Alliance tools, by the way also required additional third party
tools for synthesis or schematics. Definitely not on a
hobbyists budget.

Regards,
Gabor

 

[John Adair]

The other problem you get with old software is the OS. I keep some
machines with NT for times I need to run my old version software.

John Adair
Enterpoint Ltd.


On 24 May, 20:15, Gabor <ga...@alacron.com> wrote:

On May 24, 3:09 pm, glen herrmannsfeldt <g...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:



In comp.arch.fpga d_s_klein <d_s_kl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
(snip, I wrote)

I believe that Xilinx still has software for XC4000 devices on
their web site, and I might even believe that some would still
use them.  If you want a hobbyist device, go for XC4000 series.
I disagree with the suggestion to use an XC4000.  HDL support for this
family (and the Spartan/SpartanXL) ended 5+ years ago.  And by ended,
I mean that there is no legal way of obtaining the necessary software..

I meant it in the sense that one shouldn't go farther back than that.

I thought the software was on the "Classic" section of the Xilinx
web site, but didn't try actually installing it.

-- glen

I'm still running version 4.1 of the Xilinx tools, but the
"Foundation"
not "ISE" version.  You can still get ISE 4.1, but it doesn't include
synthesis or schematics, so you'd need some third party tools
to make up the gap.  Xilinx no longer offers the original Foundation
versions, since they don't own the third party (Aldec) content.  The
Alliance tools, by the way also required additional third party
tools for synthesis or schematics.  Definitely not on a
hobbyists budget.

Regards,
Gabor

 

[d_s_klein]

On May 24, 3:07 pm, John Adair <g...@enterpoint.co.uk> wrote:

The other problem you get with old software is the OS. I keep some
machines with NT for times I need to run my old version software.

John Adair
Enterpoint Ltd.

Take a look at 'vmware' or 'virtualbox'. I have been able to run
antique OS's (and applications) on modern hardware using both.

RK

 

[Nico Coesel]

John Adair <g1@enterpoint.co.uk> wrote:

Depending on what you want to achieve there are ways to make boards
simple by using modules like our previously mentioned Darnaw1. There
are also the DIL format Craignell1 http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/component_replacements/craignell.html
and Craignell2 http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/component_replacements/craignell2.html
modules. These modules allow you to develop your own carrier board but
handle the complex and costly BGA bit for you.

There are other low cost products like our Polmaddie series
http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/polmaddie/polmaddie_family.html offer ways
into FPGA and CPLD technology at not a lot of cost. These particular
boards sell 1 off at GBP 40 (approx USD 60, Euro 50) in one off and
you get a free programming cable (parallel port) for that money. Club
together with a couple of friends and you can get free worldwide
shipping on our web shop if you can get the order over GBP 100.

All of these products are bought by hobby engineers. Tools for all of
the above are free to download. We also use 0.1 inch/ 2.54mm pitch
headers/sockets a lot to facilitate hobby and student markets with
many customers even building their add ons with simple stripboard.

This is definitely a sensible way to go.

OTOH it is not very difficult to put a TQFP100 or PQ208 on a board
with a simple soldering iron.

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Philip Pemberton]

On Tue, 25 May 2010 20:23:36 +0000, Nico Coesel wrote:

John Adair <g1@enterpoint.co.uk> wrote:
[...]
All of these products are bought by hobby engineers. Tools for all of
the above are free to download. We also use 0.1 inch/ 2.54mm pitch
headers/sockets a lot to facilitate hobby and student markets with many
customers even building their add ons with simple stripboard.

This is definitely a sensible way to go.

Seconded. The Drigmorn2 is a lovely little board -- 32MiB SDRAM, onboard
SPI flash, switches, HD44780 LCD, and a ton of LEDs. Debugging it is a
DREAM, especially when you can just plug a Harwin pin header into the LHS/
RHS headers, wire in a logic analyser pod and watch as closely as you
like.

The only thing I don't like about it is the ISSI SDRAM -- the refresh
rate figures in the datasheet are incorrect. Use 4096 cycles per 32ms
(the refresh rate for the "Industrial" spec part) and it's fine, use 4096-
in-64ms (the "Commercial" spec rating) and you get random data corruption
issues. I suspect the section on Auto Refresh has been copy-pasted from a
datasheet for a different part and not checked against the tested
specification... but that's just conjecture.

The other possibility is that the part on my DM2 is a mis-marked Ind Temp
part, but the laser-markings say it *should* be a -7BL, or a 7ns part in
Pb-free BGA... if it was ind-spec it *should* have been marked "-7BLI"...

OTOH it is not very difficult to put a TQFP100 or PQ208 on a board with
a simple soldering iron.

Yeah, tack down a few pins at a corner, then coat the pins in paste flux
and drag-solder. Clean up with solder wick and you're done. If you're not
a fan of manual labour you can use solder paste and a hot-air reflow
station, but drag soldering is usually quicker... not to mention more
reliable

--
Phil.
usenet10@philpem.me.uk
http://www.philpem.me.uk/
If mail bounces, replace "10" with the last two digits of the current year

 

[mark2112]

My friend and I made an FPGA module that may fit your needs. It packs a Spartan-3A XC3S200A onto a breadboard-friendly 64-pin DIP package - super easy to integrate into your own project! No need to solder any small packages by hand!

It has all the necessary support circuitry for the FPGA; it has the 1.2V and 3.3V voltage rails, bypass capacitors, and Flash to hold your configuration, and is programmable via USB. It also has 5V-tolerant I/O and an onboard 8-channel analog-to-digital converter!

Check it out at: http://micro-nova.com/mercur

--http://compgroups.net/comp.arch.fpga/xilinx-xact-software-for-xc2018-logic-cell-arr/107329