Xilinx "Ultrascale" announcement leaves out low-cost devices

[GaborSzakacs]

It seems that Xilinx is once again abandoning the low-cost
high-volume market in pursuit of those lucrative high-end
sockets. There latest announcement shows less roadmap
as the devices go towards the low end of the price curve:

http://www.xilinx.com/products/technology/ultrascale/

--
Gabor

 

[rickman]

On 7/16/2013 3:20 PM, GaborSzakacs wrote:

It seems that Xilinx is once again abandoning the low-cost
high-volume market in pursuit of those lucrative high-end
sockets. There latest announcement shows less roadmap
as the devices go towards the low end of the price curve:

http://www.xilinx.com/products/technology/ultrascale/

I didn't listen to the video, but looking at the pictures... (what I do
best)... it appears that they are indeed going the route of just one
product line. Virtex UltraScale will be the only product in the Xilinx
line at the 16 nm node.

The question is will having only one device line make a difference?
Perhaps this will be a one size (or one process) fits all approach. Is
there any reason why they can't make low end devices with a competitive
price along with high end devices with all the bells and whistles under
the same marketing name? How much different are the various product
lines at the silicon level?

It looks like the mega-FPGA market is alive and well, but I don't see
how an FPGA company can ignore the low end of the market. There are
just too many products using too much silicon for any silicon vendor to
ignore. If Xilinx won't address the smaller devices I'm sure others will.

--

Rick

 

[Sean Durkin]

GaborSzakacs wrote:

It seems that Xilinx is once again abandoning the low-cost
high-volume market in pursuit of those lucrative high-end
sockets. There latest announcement shows less roadmap
as the devices go towards the low end of the price curve:

http://www.xilinx.com/products/technology/ultrascale/

Another indicator: They've dropped the Artix-7 SL/SLT lines that were
announced in late 2012. Those were supposed to be available in small
packages and with less LUTs, optionally without GTPs (AKA "bells and
whistles"). Now they're back to the Artix-7 lineup that was originally
announced from the beginning.

When Lattice dropped the ECP4 before it even started, they told us they
now plan to concentrate on low to medium density FPGAs, low power and
smaller packages, since that is what X and A don't cover with their
lineup and they don't stand a chance with the bigger parts. Seems to me
that Xilinx is handing over that market share to them now.

Greetings,
Sean

 

[rickman]

On 7/17/2013 3:07 AM, Sean Durkin wrote:

GaborSzakacs wrote:
It seems that Xilinx is once again abandoning the low-cost
high-volume market in pursuit of those lucrative high-end
sockets. There latest announcement shows less roadmap
as the devices go towards the low end of the price curve:

http://www.xilinx.com/products/technology/ultrascale/

Another indicator: They've dropped the Artix-7 SL/SLT lines that were
announced in late 2012. Those were supposed to be available in small
packages and with less LUTs, optionally without GTPs (AKA "bells and
whistles"). Now they're back to the Artix-7 lineup that was originally
announced from the beginning.

When Lattice dropped the ECP4 before it even started, they told us they
now plan to concentrate on low to medium density FPGAs, low power and
smaller packages, since that is what X and A don't cover with their
lineup and they don't stand a chance with the bigger parts. Seems to me
that Xilinx is handing over that market share to them now.

Certainly Lattice has an interesting line with the Silicon Blue products
they bought last year. They are clearly targeting space constrained,
portable apps with small, low cost devices in very tiny packages. It is
hard to find a chip in the ice40 line that you can use without ultra
fine pitch traces and vias.

I haven't seen a similar product from anyone although I haven't looked
hard at the low power Igloo parts. I don't see that they are truly low
power once you start running them.

--

Rick

 

[Anssi Saari]

Sean Durkin <news_dec12@tuxroot.de> writes:

When Lattice dropped the ECP4 before it even started, they told us
they now plan to concentrate on low to medium density FPGAs, low power
and smaller packages, since that is what X and A don't cover with
their lineup and they don't stand a chance with the bigger
parts. Seems to me that Xilinx is handing over that market share to
them now.

Well, a couple of years ago I listened to a keynote speech by Mentor
Graphics's CEO. It was about profits in the chip business, FPGAs make
the most money because they are expensive and leverage new process nodes
early. I have to assume these are the big FPGAs, not the small
ones... So Xilinx is going where the money is.

BTW, apparently Altera is coming up with small FPGAs along the lines of
Lattice's MachXO2 line. It's funny how the XO2-1200 seems like a MaxII
EPM1270 with 10 more LEs, a PLL and some RAM...

 

[rickman]

On 7/18/2013 7:44 AM, Anssi Saari wrote:

Sean Durkin<news_dec12@tuxroot.de> writes:

When Lattice dropped the ECP4 before it even started, they told us
they now plan to concentrate on low to medium density FPGAs, low power
and smaller packages, since that is what X and A don't cover with
their lineup and they don't stand a chance with the bigger
parts. Seems to me that Xilinx is handing over that market share to
them now.

Well, a couple of years ago I listened to a keynote speech by Mentor
Graphics's CEO. It was about profits in the chip business, FPGAs make
the most money because they are expensive and leverage new process nodes
early. I have to assume these are the big FPGAs, not the small
ones... So Xilinx is going where the money is.

I have to wonder how long the high end of the market can remain a cash
cow. We see the processing ability of PCs exceeding the needs of PC
users. The result is a change in the market to smaller platforms with
more convenience and much lower processing demands than what is offered
in PCs. I am expecting something similar in the FPGA market. How many
designs will there be for the ever larger FPGAs which don't actually run
noticeably faster?

There will always be a need for cutting edge designs that have to get to
the market quickly, but I expect there will be more profit in the mass
quantity market as FPGAs start to take over from custom chip designs.
The cost of silicon may be less when you design an ASIC, but if you can
get to market 6 months or a year sooner for only $2 more per chip, I
expect that is a *huge* advantage. The FPGA makers have to be serious
about addressing the market though. You can't just toss any old FPGA
out there and expect it to get design wins in quantity million sockets.

--

Rick

 

[jg]

On Thursday, July 18, 2013 11:44:37 PM UTC+12, Anssi Saari wrote:

BTW, apparently Altera is coming up with small FPGAs along the lines of
Lattice's MachXO2 line. It's funny how the XO2-1200 seems like a MaxII
EPM1270 with 10 more LEs, a PLL and some RAM...

Any indications of when ?

 

[jg]

On Wednesday, July 17, 2013 7:20:03 AM UTC+12, Gabor wrote:

It seems that Xilinx is once again abandoning the low-cost
high-volume market in pursuit of those lucrative high-end
sockets. There latest announcement shows less roadmap
as the devices go towards the low end of the price curve:

http://www.xilinx.com/products/technology/ultrascale/

No real surprise, the FPGA market is tough : huge R&D costs, and below average revenue growths.
The biggest problem, is design lifetimes.

Anytime they go into a mass-volume, early adopter design, it is only a short time before the volumes will pay for tooling a cheaper alternative.

So they understand the best design lifetimes are in those areas where the volumes & design stability help them, and that is areas like ASIC simulation, and communications infrastructure.

Add onto that, the Corporate mindset, whereby some companies simply cannot make $1 parts, and it is easy to see Xilinx heading like intel.

 

[Anssi Saari]

jg <j.m.granville@gmail.com> writes:

On Thursday, July 18, 2013 11:44:37 PM UTC+12, Anssi Saari wrote:
BTW, apparently Altera is coming up with small FPGAs along the lines of
Lattice's MachXO2 line. It's funny how the XO2-1200 seems like a MaxII
EPM1270 with 10 more LEs, a PLL and some RAM...


Any indications of when ?

I think it was 2014. I may have some notes somewhere but they were
pretty vague on everything.

 

[rickman]

On 7/23/2013 4:44 PM, Anssi Saari wrote:

jg<j.m.granville@gmail.com> writes:

On Thursday, July 18, 2013 11:44:37 PM UTC+12, Anssi Saari wrote:
BTW, apparently Altera is coming up with small FPGAs along the lines of
Lattice's MachXO2 line. It's funny how the XO2-1200 seems like a MaxII
EPM1270 with 10 more LEs, a PLL and some RAM...

Yeah, the low end has been explored pretty well. Now it is just a
matter of coming out with variations on the theme which give the best
combination of support for a variety of designs. If the low end takes
off, I don't see why it won't blossom like MCUs where there are lots and
lots of different products with just the right combination of
capabilities for nearly any task.

Any indications of when ?

I think it was 2014. I may have some notes somewhere but they were
pretty vague on everything.

I just got an EOL notice on a Lattice XP part I'm using. My product has
a lot of life left in it and I will have to redesign with a newer part.
With any luck I'll be able to include a lot more capability. The
present device is around 80% full.

At least I know what I'll be doing for the next project!

The notice is a bit short, only four months warning to get your final
orders in.

--

Rick