Xilinx Spartan3: Price

I

itsme

Guest
Hi to all,
I want to use a Xilinx Spartan3 XC3S1000 FG456 in my new design
Does anybody knows the price (>1000p) and the availability for that chip?
I found a price of about $200 at AVNET
Xilinx is telling a much lower price...?
So what is the truth
Is the chip already available and at what realistic price?
 
they are both correct.. check the volumes field on the Xilinx web site.. its
probably 250,000

"itsme" <itsme@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:bno138$fok$01$1@news.t-online.com...
Hi to all,
I want to use a Xilinx Spartan3 XC3S1000 FG456 in my new design
Does anybody knows the price (>1000p) and the availability for that chip?
I found a price of about $200 at AVNET
Xilinx is telling a much lower price...?
So what is the truth
Is the chip already available and at what realistic price?
Click to expand...
 
"Simon Peacock" <nowhere@to.be.found> writes:

they are both correct.. check the volumes field on the Xilinx web site.. its
probably 250,000
Click to expand...
Yes. Take a look at the * at the bottom of this page:

http://www.xilinx.com/prs_rls/silicon_spart/03142s3_pricing.htm

Well, if he can team up with 250 of us and make an order of 1000 each
as a single group we could get the $12 (I guess that is the lowest
speed grade in the cheapest packet).

Petter
--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
 
Petter Gustad wrote:
Well, if he can team up with 250 of us and make an order of 1000 each
as a single group we could get the $12 (I guess that is the lowest
speed grade in the cheapest packet).

Just some perspective:
Click to expand...
When I joined Xilinx 16 years ago, the price per LUT was about $1.00
Today it is hundred times lower, at around $ 0.01
And we are promising another factor 10 in the near future. Not too bad !
BlockRAMs and multipliers and DCMs are thrown in "for free".

BTW, the 3S1000 has about 16 000 LUTs. You do the math.

Peter Alfke
 
Uwe Bonnes wrote:
If everyone of this team of 250 could contribute one day of lead time we
could also get in a time frame where the parts are really available on the
market :)

One minute per team member would be sufficient. :)
Click to expand...
Peter Alfke
 
"Peter Alfke" <peter@xilinx.com> wrote in message
news:3FA00CB5.1766F7F7@xilinx.com...

Petter Gustad wrote:
Well, if he can team up with 250 of us and make an order of 1000 each
as a single group we could get the $12 (I guess that is the lowest
speed grade in the cheapest packet).

Just some perspective:
When I joined Xilinx 16 years ago, the price per LUT was about $1.00
Today it is hundred times lower, at around $ 0.01
And we are promising another factor 10 in the near future. Not too bad !
BlockRAMs and multipliers and DCMs are thrown in "for free".

BTW, the 3S1000 has about 16 000 LUTs. You do the math.
Click to expand...
I Just wonder why the price drops so much between 250k and 1k.

1k @$200 = $200k
250k @$ 12 = $3,000k

So he really only needs to find 16 or more people that want 1k to get a
discount, and as a bonus he gets many thousands of free chips.

if he could just find 25 people they would all be buying their 1k @ $120
each and getting 9k free chips.

Why not $50 @ 1k?

Ralph
 
Petter Gustad <newsmailcomp6@gustad.com> wrote:
: "Simon Peacock" <nowhere@to.be.found> writes:

:> they are both correct.. check the volumes field on the Xilinx web site.. its
:> probably 250,000

: Yes. Take a look at the * at the bottom of this page:

: http://www.xilinx.com/prs_rls/silicon_spart/03142s3_pricing.htm

: Well, if he can team up with 250 of us and make an order of 1000 each
: as a single group we could get the $12 (I guess that is the lowest
: speed grade in the cheapest packet).

If everyone of this team of 250 could contribute one day of lead time we
could also get in a time frame where the parts are really available on the
market :)
--
Uwe Bonnes bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------
 
"Ralph Mason" <masonralph_at_yahoo_dot_com@thisisnotarealaddress.com> writes:

if he could just find 25 people they would all be buying their 1k @ $120
each and getting 9k free chips.
Click to expand...
Now I'm starting to understand why I'm such a lousy businessman :-(

Petter
--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
 
Ralph,

It is also called "forward pricing" because it lets a customer know what it
will cost when they finally go into production a year or so from now.

A real customer doesn't care what it costs right now, because 'right now' is
not when they are going to sell anything. They want to know what it will cost
when they go into production (along with all of their competitors). Until
then, they need to budget for the costs, but they are not at all as concerned
about the short terem, as they are about when it is selling, and they are
trying to squeeze the best out of the (potentially thin) margins.

For example, if I know I want to hit the market next Christmas with a new GPS
videogame/handheld/FRS personnal communicator/802.11g (call it Internet
Enabled Star Treck Cache Dragon Hunt*), and I wish to sell 250K units for
$29.95, I need to make the BOM today, get pricing locked in, and be sure that
when I go to build them, I can turn a profit.

The one off price today, or next month is of no value to anyone who is really
in business (other than to let you know how much to write the check for).

Austin


*Game is not patented, or registered, but since I just made it public domain,
I do expect to see three versions of it by next fall. The unit would
automatically register you on a website as a player, find other players in
your area, assign local FRS channels and tones to the players as teams ("red
vs. blue"), and then send GPS coordinates for "caches" that must be reached
before certain time limits in order to score points. Once you have arrived at
a cache point, the unit verifies its location, and gets going you off to the
next one.


Ralph Mason wrote:

"Peter Alfke" <peter@xilinx.com> wrote in message
news:3FA00CB5.1766F7F7@xilinx.com...

Petter Gustad wrote:
Well, if he can team up with 250 of us and make an order of 1000 each
as a single group we could get the $12 (I guess that is the lowest
speed grade in the cheapest packet).

Just some perspective:
When I joined Xilinx 16 years ago, the price per LUT was about $1.00
Today it is hundred times lower, at around $ 0.01
And we are promising another factor 10 in the near future. Not too bad !
BlockRAMs and multipliers and DCMs are thrown in "for free".

BTW, the 3S1000 has about 16 000 LUTs. You do the math.

I Just wonder why the price drops so much between 250k and 1k.

1k @$200 = $200k
250k @$ 12 = $3,000k

So he really only needs to find 16 or more people that want 1k to get a
discount, and as a bonus he gets many thousands of free chips.

if he could just find 25 people they would all be buying their 1k @ $120
each and getting 9k free chips.

Why not $50 @ 1k?

Ralph
Click to expand...
 
"Austin Lesea" wrote:

A real customer doesn't care what it costs right now, because 'right now'
is
not when they are going to sell anything. They want to know what it will
cost
when they go into production (along with all of their competitors).
Click to expand...
Nitpicking, but, companies like mine are "real customers" yet we only need a
few hundred or thousand devices for production ... not hundreds of
thousands.

I've always thought that semiconductor pricing was unfairly skewed to favor
the big guys. I understand discount structures, etc., but there's a huge
difference between $200 and $12. And, it's weird, 'cause you'd think that
you'd sell a ton more chips if the little guys could buy them at a more
affordable price point.

I've been dealing with a semiconductor manufacturer that's been downright
rude about discounts because they were the only game in town. Now, with
Virtex 2 Pro's high speed serial I/O capabilities I have a chance to drop
them like a hot potato in my next design. The likelyhood of that happening
is extremely high at this point. I'm sure they bend over backwards for
those who move more chips, but, what they don't realize (even though I've
explained it), is that I'm ramping up. They are literally handing Xilinx
business to the tune of thousands of V2P's per year. Very unwise.

So, the high cost of chips for the sub 1K/year crowd might very well make
them look elsewhere and, as you can imagine, once you adopt and get
comfortable with another vendor the chances of getting a different chip onto
that a board are pretty low.


--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Martin Euredjian

To send private email:
0_0_0_0_@pacbell.net
where
"0_0_0_0_" = "martineu"
 
Peter Alfke <peter@xilinx.com> wrote in message news:<3FA01AE9.BFCBD7A1@xilinx.com>...
Uwe Bonnes wrote:
If everyone of this team of 250 could contribute one day of lead time we
could also get in a time frame where the parts are really available on the
market :)

One minute per team member would be sufficient. :)
Peter Alfke
Click to expand...
Which really is a contradiction to Austins post who essentially
explained the price difference with a 6 Month delay before purchase.

You are suggesting that in 250 Minutes the 250k price is going to drop
to 12$ but I doubt that the Avnet price is going to drop today.

So there would be a factor of 16 volume discount compared to a 1k
price.
I believe you agree that this is unusual?

Kolja Sulimma
 
If I was buying 250k units.. I would be knocking on Peters door not
Avnet's.. when your interested in real volumes you don't have the cash to
waste on middle men.

Simon

"Kolja Sulimma" <news@sulimma.de> wrote in message
news:b890a7a.0310300104.2f095b62@posting.google.com...
Peter Alfke <peter@xilinx.com> wrote in message
news:<3FA01AE9.BFCBD7A1@xilinx.com>...
Uwe Bonnes wrote:
If everyone of this team of 250 could contribute one day of lead time
we
could also get in a time frame where the parts are really available
on the
market :)

One minute per team member would be sufficient. :)
Peter Alfke

Which really is a contradiction to Austins post who essentially
explained the price difference with a 6 Month delay before purchase.

You are suggesting that in 250 Minutes the 250k price is going to drop
to 12$ but I doubt that the Avnet price is going to drop today.

So there would be a factor of 16 volume discount compared to a 1k
price.
I believe you agree that this is unusual?

Kolja Sulimma
Click to expand...
 
Kolja, let's maintain some common sense here.
I only commented on Uwe's doubt about availability (250 days), and I
countered with "250 minutes", actually much less than that, since the
3S1000J has been available for weeks.
BTW: "J"only refers to a of 3.3-V tolerance, to be fixed in the final release.

This whole discussion has really deteriorated because the time factor
("end of 2004") has been ignored.

'nuf said.
Peter Alfke
=======================
Kolja Sulimma wrote:
Peter Alfke <peter@xilinx.com> wrote in message news:<3FA01AE9.BFCBD7A1@xilinx.com>...
Uwe Bonnes wrote:
If everyone of this team of 250 could contribute one day of lead time we
could also get in a time frame where the parts are really available on the
market :)

One minute per team member would be sufficient. :)
Peter Alfke

Which really is a contradiction to Austins post who essentially
explained the price difference with a 6 Month delay before purchase.

You are suggesting that in 250 Minutes the 250k price is going to drop
to 12$ but I doubt that the Avnet price is going to drop today.

So there would be a factor of 16 volume discount compared to a 1k
price.
I believe you agree that this is unusual?

Kolja Sulimma
Click to expand...
 
Martin Euredjian wrote:
"Austin Lesea" wrote:

A real customer doesn't care what it costs right now, because 'right now'
is
not when they are going to sell anything. They want to know what it will
cost
when they go into production (along with all of their competitors).

Nitpicking, but, companies like mine are "real customers" yet we only need a
few hundred or thousand devices for production ... not hundreds of
thousands.

I've always thought that semiconductor pricing was unfairly skewed to favor
the big guys. I understand discount structures, etc., but there's a huge
difference between $200 and $12. And, it's weird, 'cause you'd think that
you'd sell a ton more chips if the little guys could buy them at a more
affordable price point.

I've been dealing with a semiconductor manufacturer that's been downright
rude about discounts because they were the only game in town. Now, with
Virtex 2 Pro's high speed serial I/O capabilities I have a chance to drop
them like a hot potato in my next design. The likelyhood of that happening
is extremely high at this point. I'm sure they bend over backwards for
those who move more chips, but, what they don't realize (even though I've
explained it), is that I'm ramping up. They are literally handing Xilinx
business to the tune of thousands of V2P's per year. Very unwise.

So, the high cost of chips for the sub 1K/year crowd might very well make
them look elsewhere and, as you can imagine, once you adopt and get
comfortable with another vendor the chances of getting a different chip onto
that a board are pretty low.
Click to expand...
Well, that is all in how much you push your distributors. Right now
they are hungry and they all want to lock in design wins on the new
parts. I have gotten a very agressive price on the XC3S400 and I am
asking about the XC3S1000 since I may need a few more LUTs to support
modular configuration. I expect I will be getting close to that 10x
figure Peter mentioned. My XC3S400 price was within a factor of 3 of
that.


Rick "rickman" Collins

rick.collins@XYarius.com
Ignore the reply address. To email me use the above address with the XY
removed.

Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company
Specializing in DSP and FPGA design URL http://www.arius.com
4 King Ave 301-682-7772 Voice
Frederick, MD 21701-3110 301-682-7666 FAX
 
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