Wiring up a boat

[GC]

I just bought a boat a couple of days ago.
It doesn't have many accessories in it, but I want to add some.... I don't
want to use the battery that powers the motor, as I might have say the radio
on all day while fishing etc....
So what I was thinking, was getting another 12 volt battery and running all
the accessories off that.. eg CD Radio, FM Radio, mini TV etc.... These
things will probably still drain my second battery a lot, but I can charge
it again at the end of the day with a charger..... Or I was considering
getting a solar panel from Oatley Electronics to trickle charge it.
I don't know much about car/boat wiring so I'm after some advise on this...
At the same place they also have some kind of regulator circuit that I can
build so it (solar panel) won't overcharge the battery...or discharge it
when it gets cloudy.
Anyone got some hints??

Thanks

P.S. The fuel gauge doesn't work. I have pulled out both the fuel gauge and
the floating thing that goes into the petrol tank, as I don't know which one
(or possibly both) is faulty.
Do the float thingys normally change resistance when moving the float??? I
tried having it all disconnected and then measued the resistance, I was
getting open circuit.
Can I test the gauge by itself??? someone told me I can short out the
ignition and the sensor terminal, and put 12 volts on that..... and connect
the negative to the other terminal... doing this should make the needle go
to maximum? Is this correct? This would in theory rule out the gauge is
faulty?

Thanks

 

[KLR]

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 00:05:22 +1100, "GC" <mobaccREMOVE@tig.com.au>
wrote:

I just bought a boat a couple of days ago.
It doesn't have many accessories in it, but I want to add some.... I don't
want to use the battery that powers the motor, as I might have say the radio
on all day while fishing etc....
So what I was thinking, was getting another 12 volt battery and running all
the accessories off that.. eg CD Radio, FM Radio, mini TV etc.... These
things will probably still drain my second battery a lot, but I can charge
it again at the end of the day with a charger..... Or I was considering
getting a solar panel from Oatley Electronics to trickle charge it.
I don't know much about car/boat wiring so I'm after some advise on this...
At the same place they also have some kind of regulator circuit that I can
build so it (solar panel) won't overcharge the battery...or discharge it
when it gets cloudy.
Anyone got some hints??

Thanks

P.S. The fuel gauge doesn't work. I have pulled out both the fuel gauge and
the floating thing that goes into the petrol tank, as I don't know which one
(or possibly both) is faulty.
Do the float thingys normally change resistance when moving the float??? I
tried having it all disconnected and then measued the resistance, I was
getting open circuit.
Can I test the gauge by itself??? someone told me I can short out the
ignition and the sensor terminal, and put 12 volts on that..... and connect
the negative to the other terminal... doing this should make the needle go
to maximum? Is this correct? This would in theory rule out the gauge is
faulty?

Thanks

I would make sure that the gauge doesnt need a current limited supply.

As a friend of mine discovered some years ago with his SS Torana -
gauges can have "instrument regulators" powering them, presumably so
the gauge doesn't fluctuate with low battery voltage.
By inadvertently somehow shorting out this regulator (and putting the
gauge B+ straight to +12) - it did serious damage to several of the
gauges and resulted in a $300+ repair bill.

The other risk is putting it on backwards and making the needle "slam"
into the left side and bending it.

trying a 1.5v battery or 2 and possibly a resistor in series might be
a lot safer.

Note too that fuel gauges can take often up to a minute to rise to the
full scale - presumably to stop the pointer moving round wildly as the
fuel sloshes round in the tank.

 

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 00:05:22 +1100, "GC" <mobaccREMOVE@tig.com.au>
wrote:

I just bought a boat a couple of days ago.
It doesn't have many accessories in it, but I want to add some.... I don't
want to use the battery that powers the motor, as I might have say the radio
on all day while fishing etc....
So what I was thinking, was getting another 12 volt battery and running all
the accessories off that.. eg CD Radio, FM Radio, mini TV etc.... These
things will probably still drain my second battery a lot, but I can charge
it again at the end of the day with a charger..... Or I was considering
getting a solar panel from Oatley Electronics to trickle charge it.
I don't know much about car/boat wiring so I'm after some advise on this...
At the same place they also have some kind of regulator circuit that I can
build so it (solar panel) won't overcharge the battery...or discharge it
when it gets cloudy.
Anyone got some hints??

Yeah, go the dual battery method, you might also like to try a 4WD
shop too. TJM and the like also supply dual-battery setups for cars
which could be similar and worth checking out for the $$$.

As for the solar panel, I'd do the main battery with a decent
regulator, that way it's always going to be charged even when sitting
in the yard. The backup battery is normally recharged when the motor
is running. Essential items like the marine radio and bilge pump might
be useful to have a throw switch so you can also operate it off either
supply.

If it's sitting in the water for a while, the bilge pump can discharge
a battery, the switches can occasionally get stuck and run the pump
24/7 till the battery is flat so keep that in mind.

 

[GC]

I'm not sure whether going all the way out and getting solar panels is worth
while doing afterall....
But would it be possible to charge both the batteries from the motor while
the motor is running, but switch over and only run the accessories off the
2nd battery (leaving the 1st battery fully charged for when I want to start
the motor again later).
I don't think I can simply connect the bateries in parallel, the batteries
could be different brands etc and I don't want them to transfer their power
to each other...
Would I need a stronger altenator??
I haven't even worked out where this is yet... its an outboard motor....
There's no Australia boating newsgroup that I can find... thats why I'm
asking every this here sorry..

Regards
Glen



"GC" <mobaccREMOVE@tig.com.au> wrote in message
news:c1a8e6$ivq$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...

I just bought a boat a couple of days ago.
It doesn't have many accessories in it, but I want to add some.... I
don't
want to use the battery that powers the motor, as I might have say the
radio
on all day while fishing etc....
So what I was thinking, was getting another 12 volt battery and running
all
the accessories off that.. eg CD Radio, FM Radio, mini TV etc.... These
things will probably still drain my second battery a lot, but I can charge
it again at the end of the day with a charger..... Or I was considering
getting a solar panel from Oatley Electronics to trickle charge it.
I don't know much about car/boat wiring so I'm after some advise on
this...
At the same place they also have some kind of regulator circuit that I can
build so it (solar panel) won't overcharge the battery...or discharge it
when it gets cloudy.
Anyone got some hints??

Thanks

P.S. The fuel gauge doesn't work. I have pulled out both the fuel gauge
and
the floating thing that goes into the petrol tank, as I don't know which
one
(or possibly both) is faulty.
Do the float thingys normally change resistance when moving the float???
I
tried having it all disconnected and then measued the resistance, I was
getting open circuit.
Can I test the gauge by itself??? someone told me I can short out the
ignition and the sensor terminal, and put 12 volts on that..... and
connect
the negative to the other terminal... doing this should make the needle go
to maximum? Is this correct? This would in theory rule out the gauge is
faulty?

Thanks

 

[Rheilly Phoull]

"GC" <mobaccREMOVE@tig.com.au> wrote in message
news:c1cphe$1ah$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...

I'm not sure whether going all the way out and getting solar panels is
worth
while doing afterall....
But would it be possible to charge both the batteries from the motor while
the motor is running, but switch over and only run the accessories off the
2nd battery (leaving the 1st battery fully charged for when I want to
start
the motor again later).
I don't think I can simply connect the bateries in parallel, the batteries
could be different brands etc and I don't want them to transfer their
power
to each other...
Would I need a stronger altenator??
I haven't even worked out where this is yet... its an outboard motor....
There's no Australia boating newsgroup that I can find... thats why I'm
asking every this here sorry..

Regards
Glen



"GC" <mobaccREMOVE@tig.com.au> wrote in message
news:c1a8e6$ivq$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
I just bought a boat a couple of days ago.
It doesn't have many accessories in it, but I want to add some.... I
don't
want to use the battery that powers the motor, as I might have say the
radio
on all day while fishing etc....
So what I was thinking, was getting another 12 volt battery and running
all
the accessories off that.. eg CD Radio, FM Radio, mini TV etc....
These
things will probably still drain my second battery a lot, but I can
charge
it again at the end of the day with a charger..... Or I was considering
getting a solar panel from Oatley Electronics to trickle charge it.
I don't know much about car/boat wiring so I'm after some advise on
this...
At the same place they also have some kind of regulator circuit that I
can
build so it (solar panel) won't overcharge the battery...or discharge it
when it gets cloudy.
Anyone got some hints??

Thanks

P.S. The fuel gauge doesn't work. I have pulled out both the fuel gauge
and
the floating thing that goes into the petrol tank, as I don't know which
one
(or possibly both) is faulty.
Do the float thingys normally change resistance when moving the float???
I
tried having it all disconnected and then measued the resistance, I was
getting open circuit.
Can I test the gauge by itself??? someone told me I can short out the
ignition and the sensor terminal, and put 12 volts on that..... and
connect
the negative to the other terminal... doing this should make the needle
go
to maximum? Is this correct? This would in theory rule out the gauge is
faulty?

Thanks




There are ways to connect the batteries in parallel, electricity doesnt know

about brands etc. just voltages and stuff. If the main battery voltage (at
rest) is higher than the second battery the second battery will take the
charge, yes some will come from the main battery but it soon will balance
out. It might be best for you to seek professional advice initially whilst
you are coming to terms with all this stuff.(regarding battery isolaters
etc.)


--
Regards ........ Rheilly Phoull

 

[Jim]

Ask an auto electrician. They often work on boats and can offer excellent
advice.

"GC" <mobaccREMOVE@tig.com.au> wrote in message
news:c1cphe$1ah$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...

I'm not sure whether going all the way out and getting solar panels is
worth
while doing afterall....
But would it be possible to charge both the batteries from the motor while
the motor is running, but switch over and only run the accessories off the
2nd battery (leaving the 1st battery fully charged for when I want to
start
the motor again later).
I don't think I can simply connect the bateries in parallel, the batteries
could be different brands etc and I don't want them to transfer their
power
to each other...
Would I need a stronger altenator??
I haven't even worked out where this is yet... its an outboard motor....
There's no Australia boating newsgroup that I can find... thats why I'm
asking every this here sorry..

Regards
Glen



"GC" <mobaccREMOVE@tig.com.au> wrote in message
news:c1a8e6$ivq$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
I just bought a boat a couple of days ago.
It doesn't have many accessories in it, but I want to add some.... I
don't
want to use the battery that powers the motor, as I might have say the
radio
on all day while fishing etc....
So what I was thinking, was getting another 12 volt battery and running
all
the accessories off that.. eg CD Radio, FM Radio, mini TV etc....
These
things will probably still drain my second battery a lot, but I can
charge
it again at the end of the day with a charger..... Or I was considering
getting a solar panel from Oatley Electronics to trickle charge it.
I don't know much about car/boat wiring so I'm after some advise on
this...
At the same place they also have some kind of regulator circuit that I
can
build so it (solar panel) won't overcharge the battery...or discharge it
when it gets cloudy.
Anyone got some hints??

Thanks

P.S. The fuel gauge doesn't work. I have pulled out both the fuel gauge
and
the floating thing that goes into the petrol tank, as I don't know which
one
(or possibly both) is faulty.
Do the float thingys normally change resistance when moving the float???
I
tried having it all disconnected and then measued the resistance, I was
getting open circuit.
Can I test the gauge by itself??? someone told me I can short out the
ignition and the sensor terminal, and put 12 volts on that..... and
connect
the negative to the other terminal... doing this should make the needle
go
to maximum? Is this correct? This would in theory rule out the gauge is
faulty?

Thanks

 

[David]

<David Sauer> wrote in message
news:cjej30tm7dge3vnufmcn899iu8ep95dudi@4ax.com...

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 00:05:22 +1100, "GC"
mobaccREMOVE@tig.com.au
wrote:

I just bought a boat a couple of days ago.
It doesn't have many accessories in it, but I want to add
some.... I don't
want to use the battery that powers the motor, as I might have
say the radio
on all day while fishing etc....
So what I was thinking, was getting another 12 volt battery and
running all
the accessories off that.. eg CD Radio, FM Radio, mini TV
etc.... These
things will probably still drain my second battery a lot, but I
can charge
it again at the end of the day with a charger..... Or I was
considering
getting a solar panel from Oatley Electronics to trickle charge
it.
I don't know much about car/boat wiring so I'm after some
advise on this...
At the same place they also have some kind of regulator circuit
that I can
build so it (solar panel) won't overcharge the battery...or
discharge it
when it gets cloudy.
Anyone got some hints??

Yeah, go the dual battery method, you might also like to try a
4WD
shop too. TJM and the like also supply dual-battery setups for
cars
which could be similar and worth checking out for the $$$.

As for the solar panel, I'd do the main battery with a decent
regulator, that way it's always going to be charged even when
sitting
in the yard. The backup battery is normally recharged when the
motor
is running. Essential items like the marine radio and bilge pump
might
be useful to have a throw switch so you can also operate it off
either
supply.

If it's sitting in the water for a while, the bilge pump can
discharge
a battery, the switches can occasionally get stuck and run the
pump
24/7 till the battery is flat so keep that in mind.

It depends on how much you want to spend. If you are serious
about doing the job properly, or looking at going to sea, then a
two battery setup is a must. One battery is a starting battery
with an adequate CC (cold cranking) rating and the other is a deep
cycle battery (with a large Ah rating).

In the cheapest installation the batteries are isolated by a four
position switch (OFF-1-2-BOTH). To properly charge the batteries
and get the best working life from them do not use the both
position. Start the engine off the starting battery, let it
recharge and then switch to the deep cycle battery to recharge it.
It takes longer to recharge the deep cycle battery, whereas the
cranking battery will recharge quite quickly (excluding when it is
deep discharged). When anchored use the deep cycle battery to
power all accessories.

You can run the batteries in parallel if both are fully charged.
If you run in the both position with both batteries partially
charged the battery with the lower resistance (the one with the
most charge) will dominate the charging regulator and the less
charged battery (higher resistance) will not reach full charge.
Usually this means the deep cycle battery (the one you want to
last a long time under load) will not be at full capacity. So if
you want fully charged batteries charge them individually.

If you have solar charging then use it to either float charge with
the batteries in parallel (when they are already almost fully
charged), or to separately charge each battery if one is
substantially less than the other. Run the bilge pump off the deep
cycle battery or use two diodes to power it off both batteries as
you really want it to last as long as possible if there is a leak
(old-style-brass marine-toilet stop-cocks being a prime cause).

Also (this is stating the obvious) make sure proper short circuit
protection is provided. I have seen a lot of marine electrical
work done where the feed from the battery to the fuse/switch panel
is not fused at the battery switch. Additionally make sure the
wiring is of adequate capacity and the fuse is the right size to
protect the wiring (not the load capacity).

I have seen auto-changeovers and solar controllers for multiple
batteries, but never used commercially available ones for small
installations. I am not an auto or marine electrician but worked
on my own boats for 23 years - both large and small.

Have fun.

--

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Any email address associated with the sender of
this message, either in the headers or body
is valid but munged to help combat spam. To
email simply drop the ".abuse"
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

[Derek]

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 00:05:22 +1100, "GC" <mobaccREMOVE@tig.com.au>
wrote:

I just bought a boat a couple of days ago.
It doesn't have many accessories in it, but I want to add some.... I don't
want to use the battery that powers the motor, as I might have say the radio
on all day while fishing etc....
So what I was thinking, was getting another 12 volt battery and running all
the accessories off that.. eg CD Radio, FM Radio, mini TV etc.... These
things will probably still drain my second battery a lot, but I can charge
it again at the end of the day with a charger..... Or I was considering
getting a solar panel from Oatley Electronics to trickle charge it.
I don't know much about car/boat wiring so I'm after some advise on this...
At the same place they also have some kind of regulator circuit that I can
build so it (solar panel) won't overcharge the battery...or discharge it
when it gets cloudy.
Anyone got some hints??

Thanks

P.S. The fuel gauge doesn't work. I have pulled out both the fuel gauge and
the floating thing that goes into the petrol tank, as I don't know which one
(or possibly both) is faulty.
Do the float thingys normally change resistance when moving the float??? I
tried having it all disconnected and then measued the resistance, I was
getting open circuit.
Can I test the gauge by itself??? someone told me I can short out the
ignition and the sensor terminal, and put 12 volts on that..... and connect
the negative to the other terminal... doing this should make the needle go
to maximum? Is this correct? This would in theory rule out the gauge is
faulty?

Thanks

Go to rec.boats.electronics, this quesion has been asked several
times there. Alternatively, do a Google search under "groups". Boat
wiring is pretty universal.

One word of caution ...... never disconnect the one battery and
connect up to the other one while the motor is running, I've heard of
alternators dying in a matter of seconds this way. Some of the cheaper
switches "break" then "make" during chang-over. You want one that
"makes" the new contact, then "breaks" the old one....if you know what
I mean????

Another cheap option is to have a second battery, fully charged as
back-up, and run everything one battery. Obviously high drain stuff
like trolling motors won't work on this system, but a small radio
should be fine. As a boater, I don't quite understand the need for a
TV. Unless it's a big boat, I'd be a little weary of water/spray
around the voltages found it TVs'.

Good Luck.

 

[Clifford Heath]

Derek wrote:

One word of caution ...... never disconnect the one battery and
connect up to the other one while the motor is running

When you remove the battery from the circuit, you remove a
significant source of voltage regulation - I've heard of the
voltage jumping to 45V (from 14) with the battery disconnected.
Needless to say, there are quite a few electronic devices that
won't like that - though I would have thought that the alternator
wasn't one of them.

 

[TonyP]

"Clifford Heath" <cjh-nospam@nospaManagesoft.com> wrote in message
news:1077603567.165744@excalibur.osa.com.au...

Derek wrote:
One word of caution ...... never disconnect the one battery and
connect up to the other one while the motor is running

When you remove the battery from the circuit, you remove a
significant source of voltage regulation - I've heard of the
voltage jumping to 45V (from 14) with the battery disconnected.
Needless to say, there are quite a few electronic devices that
won't like that - though I would have thought that the alternator
wasn't one of them.

For some reason the alternator diodes always seem to be crap.

TonyP.

 

[TonyP]

"Derek" <joe@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsqnl301ahm3ff7fu6mlft5pm4babd7o0bv@4ax.com...

As a boater, I don't quite understand the need for a
TV. Unless it's a big boat, I'd be a little weary of water/spray
around the voltages found it TVs'.

Surely you would use an LCD TV in a boat. No EHT to worry about, smaller,
lighter, more robust, and usually less current drain.

TonyP.

 

[GC]

As a boater, I don't quite understand the need for a
TV. Unless it's a big boat, I'd be a little weary of water/spray
around the voltages found it TVs'.

Surely you would use an LCD TV in a boat. No EHT to worry about, smaller,
lighter, more robust, and usually less current drain.

Yeah its just a little one, about 5.6inch that I use in the car sometimes

 

[Bob M]

"Jim" <jimshire_nospammy@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message news:<403a69c6_1@news.iprimus.com.au>...

Ask an auto electrician. They often work on boats and can offer excellent
advice.

"GC" <mobaccREMOVE@tig.com.au> wrote in message
news:c1cphe$1ah$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
I'm not sure whether going all the way out and getting solar panels is
worth
while doing afterall....
But would it be possible to charge both the batteries from the motor while
the motor is running, but switch over and only run the accessories off the
2nd battery (leaving the 1st battery fully charged for when I want to
start
the motor again later).
I don't think I can simply connect the bateries in parallel, the batteries
could be different brands etc and I don't want them to transfer their
power
to each other...
Would I need a stronger altenator??
I haven't even worked out where this is yet... its an outboard motor....
There's no Australia boating newsgroup that I can find... thats why I'm
asking every this here sorry..

Regards
Glen



"GC" <mobaccREMOVE@tig.com.au> wrote in message
news:c1a8e6$ivq$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
I just bought a boat a couple of days ago.
It doesn't have many accessories in it, but I want to add some.... I
don't
want to use the battery that powers the motor, as I might have say the
radio
on all day while fishing etc....
So what I was thinking, was getting another 12 volt battery and running
all
the accessories off that.. eg CD Radio, FM Radio, mini TV etc....
These
things will probably still drain my second battery a lot, but I can
charge
it again at the end of the day with a charger..... Or I was considering
getting a solar panel from Oatley Electronics to trickle charge it.
I don't know much about car/boat wiring so I'm after some advise on
this...
At the same place they also have some kind of regulator circuit that I
can
build so it (solar panel) won't overcharge the battery...or discharge it
when it gets cloudy.
Anyone got some hints??

Thanks

P.S. The fuel gauge doesn't work. I have pulled out both the fuel gauge
and
the floating thing that goes into the petrol tank, as I don't know which
one
(or possibly both) is faulty.
Do the float thingys normally change resistance when moving the float???
I
tried having it all disconnected and then measued the resistance, I was
getting open circuit.
Can I test the gauge by itself??? someone told me I can short out the
ignition and the sensor terminal, and put 12 volts on that..... and
connect
the negative to the other terminal... doing this should make the needle
go
to maximum? Is this correct? This would in theory rule out the gauge is
faulty?

Thanks

Hi Glen,

What type of outboard motor do you have (make/model/year)? Older
engines have literally no regulation at all. The regulation comes from
the charging characteristics of the battery- it acts as a regulator,
limiting the voltage to about 15 volts based on the fact that the
output of the alternator is not too great, usually in the range of 12
to 35 amps at max RPM. You will simply end up overcharging the battery
with the eventual result that you need to add water to the unit.

With these types of setup, it is imperative that you ALWAYS have a
good battery connected to the engine when it is running, otherwise the
"regulator" (i.e. the battery) is not in the circuit and the result
will be a voltage solely based on the engine RPM (usually high- no
speed limits on the lake) and the load (usually low- just the engine's
ignition). This is where you can see 45 volts or more.

Connecting 2 batteries is no big deal. I have a setup in my boat (1970
60hp Evinrude) similar to what you are after. The second battery is
used to power my electric trolling motor & stereo. I have a battery
selector switch that lets me connect either the "A" or the "B" or
"both" batteries to the engine. I only ever operate the switch when
the engine is off. The switch specifies that it is a make before
break, but I don't care, better safe than sorry. I have a volt meter
in my dash, independently wired to each battery with its own selector
switch (A/OFF/B). I just ensure that each battery is within 1 volt of
each other before setting the battery selector switch to both. That
way not much current flows from one battery to the other. This is not
different than boosting a run down car battery with another car to
start it. I also have an amp meter connected between the engine and
the battery selector switch (only on the charging circuit, NOT the
starting circuit) so that I can monitor the charging current to the
battery(s) as well as the drain on them when I am trolling.

The trip back to my dock usually charges both batteries, but if I have
been trolling a long time (i.e. started out with a VERY full cooler),
I will run only on the fully charged battery, and charge the other
battery when I return to my camp with my regulated charger. There are
battery isolator systems availible with diodes, etc. but I felt it was
an overkill. Not much can go wrong with a simple switch.

If you want more details, let me know what your setup is.

Cheers from Canada,

Bob M.