Wiring Diagram Software

[mpm]

Can someone recommend a good wiring diagram software?
Our needs: System schematic sufficient for an technician to hand-build prototypes and production units.

Ideally, would like something that uses a library (we make the customized blocks). Each block would include the wiring pinouts, etc... We probably have about 40 or 50 major functional blocks of stuff that goes in our boxes.. Most of our builds roughly resemble something we made before, with several tweaks here and there as to exact components, number, etc...

I don't necessarily want to diagram the exact placement of where each wire and tie-wrap goes. I just want something simple, easy to use, quick, that has the end result of a skilled tech getting the box built right. Right now, the team is using EagleCAD, which is horrible for the tasks, high learning curve, .. just awful.

We don't need a schematic program, we need a basic box-build wiring diagram..

I thought about Visio (haven't used it in years), and Googled something called "SmartDraw" tonight, which looks interesting. (TBD?)

Anything else you guys can think of? (Much appreciated!!)

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 11/9/19 9:04 am, mpm wrote:

Can someone recommend a good wiring diagram software?
Our needs: System schematic sufficient for an technician to hand-build prototypes and production units.

Ideally, would like something that uses a library (we make the customized blocks). Each block would include the wiring pinouts, etc... We probably have about 40 or 50 major functional blocks of stuff that goes in our boxes. Most of our builds roughly resemble something we made before, with several tweaks here and there as to exact components, number, etc...

I don't necessarily want to diagram the exact placement of where each wire and tie-wrap goes. I just want something simple, easy to use, quick, that has the end result of a skilled tech getting the box built right. Right now, the team is using EagleCAD, which is horrible for the tasks, high learning curve, .. just awful.

We don't need a schematic program, we need a basic box-build wiring diagram.

I thought about Visio (haven't used it in years), and Googled something called "SmartDraw" tonight, which looks interesting. (TBD?)

Anything else you guys can think of? (Much appreciated!!)

Perhaps <https://fritzing.org>?

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 16:04:29 -0700 (PDT), mpm <mpmillard@aol.com>
wrote:

Can someone recommend a good wiring diagram software?
Our needs: System schematic sufficient for an technician to hand-build prototypes and production units.

Ideally, would like something that uses a library (we make the customized blocks). Each block would include the wiring pinouts, etc... We probably have about 40 or 50 major functional blocks of stuff that goes in our boxes. Most of our builds roughly resemble something we made before, with several tweaks here and there as to exact components, number, etc...

I don't necessarily want to diagram the exact placement of where each wire and tie-wrap goes. I just want something simple, easy to use, quick, that has the end result of a skilled tech getting the box built right. Right now, the team is using EagleCAD, which is horrible for the tasks, high learning curve, .. just awful.

We don't need a schematic program, we need a basic box-build wiring diagram.

I thought about Visio (haven't used it in years), and Googled something called "SmartDraw" tonight, which looks interesting. (TBD?)

Anything else you guys can think of? (Much appreciated!!)

How about a text wiring list, and maybe a few photographs showing
preferred routing and dress styles? I've always found it easier to
wire using a from-to-color-length table, than a wiring diagram.

 

[mpm]

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 7:07:18 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
> Perhaps <https://fritzing.org>?

Nice.

Not what I was looking for, but can probably find a use for that somewhere.
Maybe with the interns? (i.e., the Arduino crowd).

---
Think of something like (maybe) an air-conditioner with several circuit boards, wires, contactors, etc.. I need to draw THAT diagram!

 

[mpm]

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 7:27:14 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
A "a from-to-color-length table"?
Sounds like something worth investigating... I wonder how that might work for us?

I need to make sure we don't mix up 5V and 12V (for sure), because that tends to blow sh!t up. Last month, I instituted a program where all wires of a certain function (i.e., 3V, 5V, SDA/SCL, Ground, etc..) have to be the same color across all product lines. Some of these get stocked in different gauges, of course.

Look, I'm not dealing with the sharpest pencils in the drawer here.

The other day, our Senior designer (who really is a genius, BTW) did a simple board layout for a multi-power power distribution panel. Just some ins-and-outs with an LED and dropping resistor so you know it's powered-up.

Well.... it's a through-hole board (due to the connectors used), but he put an 0402 LED on the board? WTF?! It's the only SMD on the board, and you need a microscope to hand-solder it. WHY? There's enough space to put two 40-pin DIP's on the board - it's not for lack of space. People just don't think things through sometimes. Very frustrating!

Of course, $10 with JLCPCB will fix the problem with a board revision.

Anyway, back to the problem at hand: System schematics / wiring diagrams.
Thanks for the suggestions thus far. (And I feel better now having bitched to near-total strangers about the adversity in my engineering work life.)

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Wednesday, September 11, 2019 at 9:04:34 AM UTC+10, mpm wrote:

Can someone recommend a good wiring diagram software?
Our needs: System schematic sufficient for an technician to hand-build prototypes and production units.

Ideally, would like something that uses a library (we make the customized blocks). Each block would include the wiring pinouts, etc... We probably have about 40 or 50 major functional blocks of stuff that goes in our boxes. Most of our builds roughly resemble something we made before, with several tweaks here and there as to exact components, number, etc...

I don't necessarily want to diagram the exact placement of where each wire and tie-wrap goes. I just want something simple, easy to use, quick, that has the end result of a skilled tech getting the box built right. Right now, the team is using EagleCAD, which is horrible for the tasks, high learning curve, .. just awful.

We don't need a schematic program, we need a basic box-build wiring diagram.

I thought about Visio (haven't used it in years), and Googled something called "SmartDraw" tonight, which looks interesting. (TBD?)

Anything else you guys can think of? (Much appreciated!!)

Try KiCAD. It's free. It's a a schematic capture package designed to do the same job as EagleCAD. I've not done much with my copy, but it does seem to me to be easy to use. Then again, I've used other, similar programs going back to OrCAD and earlier so I may have low expectations.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 10:10:56 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:

Try KiCAD. It's free. It's a a schematic capture package designed to do the same job as EagleCAD. I've not done much with my copy, but it does seem to me to be easy to use. Then again, I've used other, similar programs going back to OrCAD and earlier so I may have low expectations.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Thanks, but I'm NOT looking for schematic capture or PCB design.
I need more of a systems-level wiring diagram.

Something along the lines of Visio (although that's not my first choice).

 

[Sjouke Burry]

On 11.09.19 1:04, mpm wrote:

Can someone recommend a good wiring diagram software?
Our needs: System schematic sufficient for an technician to hand-build prototypes and production units.

Ideally, would like something that uses a library (we make the customized blocks). Each block would include the wiring pinouts, etc... We probably have about 40 or 50 major functional blocks of stuff that goes in our boxes. Most of our builds roughly resemble something we made before, with several tweaks here and there as to exact components, number, etc...

I don't necessarily want to diagram the exact placement of where each wire and tie-wrap goes. I just want something simple, easy to use, quick, that has the end result of a skilled tech getting the box built right. Right now, the team is using EagleCAD, which is horrible for the tasks, high learning curve, .. just awful.

We don't need a schematic program, we need a basic box-build wiring diagram.

I thought about Visio (haven't used it in years), and Googled something called "SmartDraw" tonight, which looks interesting. (TBD?)

Anything else you guys can think of? (Much appreciated!!)

Visio was quite dsappionting for me, on another computer there
were lots of location errors in the drawings.

 

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
news:e5cgne14ahps93otdjrl31togmfe2056p9@4ax.com:

On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 16:04:29 -0700 (PDT), mpm <mpmillard@aol.com
wrote:

Can someone recommend a good wiring diagram software?
Our needs: System schematic sufficient for an technician to
hand-build prototypes and production units.

Ideally, would like something that uses a library (we make the
customized blocks). Each block would include the wiring pinouts,
etc... We probably have about 40 or 50 major functional blocks
of stuff that goes in our boxes. Most of our builds roughly
resemble something we made before, with several tweaks here and
there as to exact components, number, etc...

I don't necessarily want to diagram the exact placement of where
each wire and tie-wrap goes. I just want something simple, easy
to use, quick, that has the end result of a skilled tech getting
the box built right. Right now, the team is using EagleCAD,
which is horrible for the tasks, high learning curve, .. just
awful.

We don't need a schematic program, we need a basic box-build
wiring diagram.

I thought about Visio (haven't used it in years), and Googled
something called "SmartDraw" tonight, which looks interesting.
(TBD?)

Anything else you guys can think of? (Much appreciated!!)

How about a text wiring list, and maybe a few photographs showing
preferred routing and dress styles? I've always found it easier to
wire using a from-to-color-length table, than a wiring diagram.

That is one of my best spreadsheets.

In military parlance, it was referred to as a "wire list". EVERY
electrical product has one.

My sheet allows color choice, wire tag name, begin termination, end
termination, cut length, and finished length, and part number of the
finished 'wire'. It has a cover sheet and can be added to an
assembly's documentation set.

The color choices are standard EIA three letter color abbreviations
and when chosen, the cell changes to that color so there is a visual
reference too.

So, a kit has the wire list reference, the builder/assembler calls
up the spreadsheet or prints it or a print is included, and he or she
can begin building all the wires (and cables) included in the
assembly. Individualized cables can each have their own wire list
and part number, of course. One can use it to define a set of
individual wires or an assembled, finished cable.

Hard to make a mistake.

 

mpm <mpmillard@aol.com> wrote in
news:68b878a1-5014-4c30-b5d8-59d45a0e2d4a@googlegroups.com:

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 7:07:18 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath
wrote:
Perhaps <https://fritzing.org>?

Nice.

Not what I was looking for, but can probably find a use for that
somewhere. Maybe with the interns? (i.e., the Arduino crowd).

---
Think of something like (maybe) an air-conditioner with several
circuit boards, wires, contactors, etc.. I need to draw THAT
diagram!

I use Solid Edge 3D CAD. They do wiring and the routing now.

It really is a fantastic 3D CAD product.

The best ain't cheap though. That level costs about $450 a month.

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Wednesday, September 11, 2019 at 12:42:25 PM UTC+10, mmil...@cellantenna..com wrote:

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 10:10:56 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
Try KiCAD. It's free. It's a a schematic capture package designed to do the same job as EagleCAD. I've not done much with my copy, but it does seem to me to be easy to use. Then again, I've used other, similar programs going back to OrCAD and earlier so I may have low expectations.

Thanks, but I'm NOT looking for schematic capture or PCB design.
I need more of a systems-level wiring diagram.

Sadly, schematic capture is what you need for systems-level wiring diagrams..

Schematic capture programs do offer you more facilities than you are asking for, but the less complete solutions tend to leave out stuff that you actually need. Visio struck me that way when I did try to use it for that kind of job.

> Something along the lines of Visio (although that's not my first choice).

Mastering a less capable tool still takes time.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[rangerssuck]

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 10:10:56 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:

On Wednesday, September 11, 2019 at 9:04:34 AM UTC+10, mpm wrote:
Can someone recommend a good wiring diagram software?
Our needs: System schematic sufficient for an technician to hand-build prototypes and production units.

Ideally, would like something that uses a library (we make the customized blocks). Each block would include the wiring pinouts, etc... We probably have about 40 or 50 major functional blocks of stuff that goes in our boxes. Most of our builds roughly resemble something we made before, with several tweaks here and there as to exact components, number, etc...

I don't necessarily want to diagram the exact placement of where each wire and tie-wrap goes. I just want something simple, easy to use, quick, that has the end result of a skilled tech getting the box built right. Right now, the team is using EagleCAD, which is horrible for the tasks, high learning curve, .. just awful.

We don't need a schematic program, we need a basic box-build wiring diagram.

I thought about Visio (haven't used it in years), and Googled something called "SmartDraw" tonight, which looks interesting. (TBD?)

Anything else you guys can think of? (Much appreciated!!)

Try KiCAD. It's free. It's a a schematic capture package designed to do the same job as EagleCAD. I've not done much with my copy, but it does seem to me to be easy to use. Then again, I've used other, similar programs going back to OrCAD and earlier so I may have low expectations.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

+1 for Kicad. I am doing less design work than I used to (getting older) and could no longer justify keeping expensive licenses up to date. I tried, really tried to be productive with Eagle but I just couldn't get comfortable with their way of doing things. Kicad has been more-or-less a drop-in to my workflow - it (for the most part) just makes sense.

There's no question that one could use Kicad for system-level wiring diagrams. You'd just design components to represent each of your wired units, be they transistors or refrigerator-sized racks or entire buildings. And again, you could output a perfectly usable netlist.

My first cad software was DaSoft, a CPM based program using character-based graphics and limited to 45° angles. I had to reprogram the character generator rom in my monitor to properly display the angles. We produced many perfectly good boards with that system, a big step up from Bishop Graphics.

Good times back then, being the smartest person in the room.

 

[rangerssuck]

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 9:06:11 PM UTC-4, mpm wrote:

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 7:27:14 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
A "a from-to-color-length table"?
Sounds like something worth investigating... I wonder how that might work for us?

I need to make sure we don't mix up 5V and 12V (for sure), because that tends to blow sh!t up. Last month, I instituted a program where all wires of a certain function (i.e., 3V, 5V, SDA/SCL, Ground, etc..) have to be the same color across all product lines. Some of these get stocked in different gauges, of course.

Look, I'm not dealing with the sharpest pencils in the drawer here.

The other day, our Senior designer (who really is a genius, BTW) did a simple board layout for a multi-power power distribution panel. Just some ins-and-outs with an LED and dropping resistor so you know it's powered-up.

Well.... it's a through-hole board (due to the connectors used), but he put an 0402 LED on the board? WTF?! It's the only SMD on the board, and you need a microscope to hand-solder it. WHY? There's enough space to put two 40-pin DIP's on the board - it's not for lack of space. People just don't think things through sometimes. Very frustrating!

Of course, $10 with JLCPCB will fix the problem with a board revision.

Anyway, back to the problem at hand: System schematics / wiring diagrams..
Thanks for the suggestions thus far. (And I feel better now having bitched to near-total strangers about the adversity in my engineering work life.)

I used to (before the advent of low-cost-quick-turn pcbs) do a lot of hand wiring and wire wrap. I'd output a netlist from whatever cad software (orcad, mostly) and wrote some code to massage it into a human friendly, procedural from-to list.

Start with the power networks, then go on to nets my chip/pin, for instance u1.1 -> u5.2, u1.2 -> u3.4, u1.3 -> u2.1 , etc. until u1 is completely wired. Then go to whatever pins remain on u2, etc., etc.

You can also do some preliminary testing, such as firing up the power supplies and verifying that they go where they should and don't make smoke before wiring other signals. That can save a ton of troubleshooting time.

I also did poor-man's bed of nails testing. I'd program a micro to generate several easily identifiable (by scope) signals and plug those signals into some board nets (address & data bus, for example) and then look (with scope) at the appropriate places on the board to make sure they were where they're supposed to be. Opens were "no signal" and shorts were obviously mangled.

I also used a signature analyzer (like this: https://tinyurl.com/y33gkmne ) to verify that the injected signals were, indeed going where they should. I also used the signature analyzer to verify large, hand-soldered pcbs.

Ahh, good times.

 

[Joe Chisolm]

On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 16:04:29 -0700, mpm wrote:

Can someone recommend a good wiring diagram software?
Our needs: System schematic sufficient for an technician to hand-build
prototypes and production units.

Ideally, would like something that uses a library (we make the
customized blocks). Each block would include the wiring pinouts, etc...
We probably have about 40 or 50 major functional blocks of stuff that
goes in our boxes. Most of our builds roughly resemble something we
made before, with several tweaks here and there as to exact components,
number, etc...

I don't necessarily want to diagram the exact placement of where each
wire and tie-wrap goes. I just want something simple, easy to use,
quick, that has the end result of a skilled tech getting the box built
right. Right now, the team is using EagleCAD, which is horrible for
the tasks, high learning curve, .. just awful.

We don't need a schematic program, we need a basic box-build wiring
diagram.

I thought about Visio (haven't used it in years), and Googled something
called "SmartDraw" tonight, which looks interesting. (TBD?)

Anything else you guys can think of? (Much appreciated!!)

Sounds to me like you just need a basic drawing tool.

How about powerpoint? You can draw blocks and then
interconnects with different colors. It's been years,
I dont know if you can build a library of "parts".
For many, learning curve is nil

For non-Windows there is LibreOffice and similar tools.
I use Linux Dia for a lot of simple drawings like this.


--
Chisolm
Texas-American

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 04:40:32 +0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
news:e5cgne14ahps93otdjrl31togmfe2056p9@4ax.com:

On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 16:04:29 -0700 (PDT), mpm <mpmillard@aol.com
wrote:

Can someone recommend a good wiring diagram software?
Our needs: System schematic sufficient for an technician to
hand-build prototypes and production units.

Ideally, would like something that uses a library (we make the
customized blocks). Each block would include the wiring pinouts,
etc... We probably have about 40 or 50 major functional blocks
of stuff that goes in our boxes. Most of our builds roughly
resemble something we made before, with several tweaks here and
there as to exact components, number, etc...

I don't necessarily want to diagram the exact placement of where
each wire and tie-wrap goes. I just want something simple, easy
to use, quick, that has the end result of a skilled tech getting
the box built right. Right now, the team is using EagleCAD,
which is horrible for the tasks, high learning curve, .. just
awful.

We don't need a schematic program, we need a basic box-build
wiring diagram.

I thought about Visio (haven't used it in years), and Googled
something called "SmartDraw" tonight, which looks interesting.
(TBD?)

Anything else you guys can think of? (Much appreciated!!)

How about a text wiring list, and maybe a few photographs showing
preferred routing and dress styles? I've always found it easier to
wire using a from-to-color-length table, than a wiring diagram.



That is one of my best spreadsheets.

In military parlance, it was referred to as a "wire list". EVERY
electrical product has one.

My sheet allows color choice, wire tag name, begin termination, end
termination, cut length, and finished length, and part number of the
finished 'wire'. It has a cover sheet and can be added to an
assembly's documentation set.

The color choices are standard EIA three letter color abbreviations
and when chosen, the cell changes to that color so there is a visual
reference too.

So, a kit has the wire list reference, the builder/assembler calls
up the spreadsheet or prints it or a print is included, and he or she
can begin building all the wires (and cables) included in the
assembly. Individualized cables can each have their own wire list
and part number, of course. One can use it to define a set of
individual wires or an assembled, finished cable.

Hard to make a mistake.

There are some cable harnesses that are basically impossible to wire
from a drawing.

 

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
news:f0gine14m0rqilesibff9babt3ve151hh4@4ax.com:

There are some cable harnesses that are basically impossible to
wire
from a drawing.

Drawings work if the draftsman knows how to depict a finished
product with all the sheets required to reproduce the defined device.

Break-out points are not noted on an electrical drawing. And many
physical whole product drawings use a simplified representation of
the cable.

A wiring harness is a small (chassis sized) or large (helicopter
sized) item, and are a detailed sub-assembly. IF repeat performances
of the same identical build is wanted some semblance of capacity to
make identical complex assemblies should be paramount in whomever the
task is assigned to. Including the drawing of how to build it.

They are not merely defined by the wire list (a harness), but have
physical logistical solution particulars added (jigs and fixtures and
nail boards etc.) The helicopter example is 150 foot long cable
assembly X2, and many factors are examinined such as wire stress, and
twisted pair turns per inch, strain relief points, etc.