wire rope crimping ferrules corrosion

[Jamie M]

Hi,

I am making a safety line for my well pump and using
a 350foot long 1/8" stainless steel cable (1x19, 19 strands).
I have some aluminum crimp ferrules but since a portion of
this cable will be underwater there is a corrosion issue
between aluminum and stainless steel, so I am considering
to use either a stainless steel crimp ferrule to form
a wire loop at the well pump, or some other type of
cable end fitting. Any suggestions on a fitting and
also if the aluminum ferrule would probably be ok or not?

cheers,
Jamie

 

Jamie M <jmorken@shaw.ca> wrote in news:qm6sf8$1pi5$1@gioia.aioe.org:

Hi,

I am making a safety line for my well pump and using
a 350foot long 1/8" stainless steel cable (1x19, 19 strands).
I have some aluminum crimp ferrules but since a portion of
this cable will be underwater there is a corrosion issue
between aluminum and stainless steel, so I am considering
to use either a stainless steel crimp ferrule to form
a wire loop at the well pump, or some other type of
cable end fitting. Any suggestions on a fitting and
also if the aluminum ferrule would probably be ok or not?

cheers,
Jamie

Go to a sail boat marina service shop. They swage cables all the
time for salt water immersion.

Yeah, I'd go stainless on stainless.

Hey, I know! Install a small pulley, and loop the cable all the
way back up and set up a permanent winch 'elevator'. Always
serviceable, always upgradeable. I know... too elaborate. Just
kidding.

There are all stainless clamps and screws you could place a couple
up the cable to secure the loop They would be serviceable, and no
swageing required.

<https://www.amazon.co.uk/Clamp-100-A4-M4-Heavy-Stainless-
Steel/dp/B01AMMAFQ4>

 

Jamie M <jmorken@shaw.ca> wrote in news:qm6sf8$1pi5$1@gioia.aioe.org:

Hi,

I am making a safety line for my well pump and using
a 350foot long 1/8" stainless steel cable (1x19, 19 strands).
I have some aluminum crimp ferrules but since a portion of
this cable will be underwater there is a corrosion issue
between aluminum and stainless steel, so I am considering
to use either a stainless steel crimp ferrule to form
a wire loop at the well pump, or some other type of
cable end fitting. Any suggestions on a fitting and
also if the aluminum ferrule would probably be ok or not?

cheers,
Jamie

<https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shape-Diameter-TX30-Stainless-A4-AISI-316-
ROPE/dp/B01AK2082M?ref_=ast_bbp_dp>

<https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=BOOTSTEILE+BRAUER&ref=nb_sb_noss>

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 21:14:33 -0700, Jamie M <jmorken@shaw.ca> wrote:

I am making a safety line for my well pump and using
a 350foot long 1/8" stainless steel cable (1x19, 19 strands).
I have some aluminum crimp ferrules but since a portion of
this cable will be underwater there is a corrosion issue
between aluminum and stainless steel, so I am considering
to use either a stainless steel crimp ferrule to form
a wire loop at the well pump, or some other type of
cable end fitting. Any suggestions on a fitting and
also if the aluminum ferrule would probably be ok or not?

On boats, aluminum ferrules are NOT recommended for stainless steel
wire rope due to corrosion:
<https://www.e-rigging.com/How-to-Select-and-Use-Swage-Sleeves>
What is recommended are stainless steel sleeves:
<https://www.e-rigging.com/one-eighth-inch-stainless-oval-sleeve>
or zinc plated copper sleeves:
<https://www.e-rigging.com/copper-sleeves>
Note that 1/8" cable requires 3 crimps per sleeve.
<https://www.e-rigging.com/one-eighth-inch-stainless-oval-sleeve>
and perhaps a thimble:
<https://www.e-rigging.com/Stainless-Thimbles_c_4108.html>
I also suggest you use a proper crimping tool:
<https://www.e-rigging.com/tyler-eighth-inch-cable-swager>
<https://www.e-rigging.com/_p_6653.html>
<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HJD1VXP>
<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004Z21C2E>


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 21:14:33 -0700, Jamie M <jmorken@shaw.ca> wrote:

I am making a safety line for my well pump and using
a 350foot long 1/8" stainless steel cable (1x19, 19 strands).

What could possibly go wrong? I was wondering if 1/8" stainless cable
was strong enough. Under normal cricumstances, it should be able to
lift the submersible pump and power cable with ease.
<https://www.e-rigging.com/1-8-stainless-steel-316-cable>
334 lb working load and 1,670 lb breaking strength. No problem.

However, if the well casing is old and perforated, causing the well
pipe to fill with mud above the pump, the safety cable will now need
to be able to lift a 350 ft vertical column of water. I don't know
the size of your well pipe, so I'll guess(tm) 4 inches. The volume of
water in the pipe is:
Pi * r^2 * height = 3.14 * (2/12)^2 * 350 = 31 cubic feet of water
Water weighs 62.4 lbs/cubic-ft so:
31 cubic-ft * 62.4 lbs/cubic-ft = 1,930 lbs.
which is greater than the 1,670 lb breaking strenght for 1/8" wire
rope. You might want to consider using a larger gauge wire rope.

However, the chances of this worst case nightmare happening are very
small. If it does happen, you only need to pump out:
7.5 gallons/cubic-ft * 31 cubic-ft = 233 gallons
of water to take most of the weight off the submersible pump.
Hopefully, the combined weight of the pump, power cable, and mud will
be less than 1,670 lbs, so the pump can be extracted.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jamie M]

On 2019-09-21 10:39 p.m., Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 21:14:33 -0700, Jamie M <jmorken@shaw.ca> wrote:

I am making a safety line for my well pump and using
a 350foot long 1/8" stainless steel cable (1x19, 19 strands).

What could possibly go wrong? I was wondering if 1/8" stainless cable
was strong enough. Under normal cricumstances, it should be able to
lift the submersible pump and power cable with ease.
https://www.e-rigging.com/1-8-stainless-steel-316-cable
334 lb working load and 1,670 lb breaking strength. No problem.

However, if the well casing is old and perforated, causing the well
pipe to fill with mud above the pump, the safety cable will now need
to be able to lift a 350 ft vertical column of water. I don't know
the size of your well pipe, so I'll guess(tm) 4 inches. The volume of
water in the pipe is:
Pi * r^2 * height = 3.14 * (2/12)^2 * 350 = 31 cubic feet of water
Water weighs 62.4 lbs/cubic-ft so:
31 cubic-ft * 62.4 lbs/cubic-ft = 1,930 lbs.
which is greater than the 1,670 lb breaking strenght for 1/8" wire
rope. You might want to consider using a larger gauge wire rope.

However, the chances of this worst case nightmare happening are very
small. If it does happen, you only need to pump out:
7.5 gallons/cubic-ft * 31 cubic-ft = 233 gallons
of water to take most of the weight off the submersible pump.
Hopefully, the combined weight of the pump, power cable, and mud will
be less than 1,670 lbs, so the pump can be extracted.

Hi,

The well pipe is a poly tube, and I can actually lift the ~380foot
poly pipe and pump just by hand (I lifted it off the pitless adapter by
hand, need to replace the pump), it had a poly rope as the "safety
cable" which I noticed is old and fraying so to avoid all the little
plastic pieces of rope falling into the well I decided to upgrade it to
a stainless cable.

I already have a crimping tool which I've used for aluminum compression
sleeves, hopefully it will work on stainless compression sleeves, I
ordered some of these stainless compression sleeves:

https://www.mcmaster.com/3755t15

cheers,
Jamie

 

[Jamie M]

On 2019-09-21 10:39 p.m., Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 21:14:33 -0700, Jamie M <jmorken@shaw.ca> wrote:

I am making a safety line for my well pump and using
a 350foot long 1/8" stainless steel cable (1x19, 19 strands).

What could possibly go wrong? I was wondering if 1/8" stainless cable
was strong enough. Under normal cricumstances, it should be able to
lift the submersible pump and power cable with ease.
https://www.e-rigging.com/1-8-stainless-steel-316-cable
334 lb working load and 1,670 lb breaking strength. No problem.

However, if the well casing is old and perforated, causing the well
pipe to fill with mud above the pump, the safety cable will now need
to be able to lift a 350 ft vertical column of water. I don't know
the size of your well pipe, so I'll guess(tm) 4 inches. The volume of
water in the pipe is:
Pi * r^2 * height = 3.14 * (2/12)^2 * 350 = 31 cubic feet of water
Water weighs 62.4 lbs/cubic-ft so:
31 cubic-ft * 62.4 lbs/cubic-ft = 1,930 lbs.
which is greater than the 1,670 lb breaking strenght for 1/8" wire
rope. You might want to consider using a larger gauge wire rope.

However, the chances of this worst case nightmare happening are very
small. If it does happen, you only need to pump out:
7.5 gallons/cubic-ft * 31 cubic-ft = 233 gallons
of water to take most of the weight off the submersible pump.
Hopefully, the combined weight of the pump, power cable, and mud will
be less than 1,670 lbs, so the pump can be extracted.

Any ideas for attaching the safety cable to the top of the well casing?
I have seen one way is to use a wire rope clamp with two small drill
holes through the side of the casing, and then the wire rope clamp is
used to clamp the wire rope to the side of the casing.

https://www.mcmaster.com/30325t61

 

On Sunday, 22 September 2019 09:00:48 UTC+1, Jamie M wrote:

On 2019-09-21 10:39 p.m., Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 21:14:33 -0700, Jamie M <jmorken@shaw.ca> wrote:

I am making a safety line for my well pump and using
a 350foot long 1/8" stainless steel cable (1x19, 19 strands).

What could possibly go wrong? I was wondering if 1/8" stainless cable
was strong enough. Under normal cricumstances, it should be able to
lift the submersible pump and power cable with ease.
https://www.e-rigging.com/1-8-stainless-steel-316-cable
334 lb working load and 1,670 lb breaking strength. No problem.

However, if the well casing is old and perforated, causing the well
pipe to fill with mud above the pump, the safety cable will now need
to be able to lift a 350 ft vertical column of water. I don't know
the size of your well pipe, so I'll guess(tm) 4 inches. The volume of
water in the pipe is:
Pi * r^2 * height = 3.14 * (2/12)^2 * 350 = 31 cubic feet of water
Water weighs 62.4 lbs/cubic-ft so:
31 cubic-ft * 62.4 lbs/cubic-ft = 1,930 lbs.
which is greater than the 1,670 lb breaking strenght for 1/8" wire
rope. You might want to consider using a larger gauge wire rope.

However, the chances of this worst case nightmare happening are very
small. If it does happen, you only need to pump out:
7.5 gallons/cubic-ft * 31 cubic-ft = 233 gallons
of water to take most of the weight off the submersible pump.
Hopefully, the combined weight of the pump, power cable, and mud will
be less than 1,670 lbs, so the pump can be extracted.



Hi,

The well pipe is a poly tube, and I can actually lift the ~380foot
poly pipe and pump just by hand (I lifted it off the pitless adapter by
hand, need to replace the pump), it had a poly rope as the "safety
cable" which I noticed is old and fraying so to avoid all the little
plastic pieces of rope falling into the well I decided to upgrade it to
a stainless cable.

I already have a crimping tool which I've used for aluminum compression
sleeves, hopefully it will work on stainless compression sleeves, I
ordered some of these stainless compression sleeves:

https://www.mcmaster.com/3755t15

cheers,
Jamie

All I can add is caution about that word 'hopefully'. Crimped sleeves on wire can look sound & work at first yet still let go readily, it takes a lot more force on them to ensure they can't let go.


NT

 

tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote in
news:f5dd24cf-c4d3-468d-9d88-11bae2024b1f@googlegroups.com:

All I can add is caution about that word 'hopefully'. Crimped
sleeves on wire can look sound & work at first yet still let go
readily, it takes a lot more force on them to ensure they can't
let go.

High tension lines, guy wires... sail boat lines... There are a
lot of cables that get 'swaged' terminations that hold up under
stress. That is the right term... 'Swaged'. A 'crimp' infers an
electrical terminal connection onto a conductor.

Hydraulic fittings also get 'swaged' onto the hose they are being
added to, and they handle hundreds of PSI.

'crimp' sounds weak (for a cable). 'swage' sounds integral,
strong, reliable. If you grew up learning both terms and their
applications.

'crimped sleeves on wire'???

He never mentioned that. He is talking about crimped (swaged)
CLAMPS on stainless WIRE ROPE. Structural stuff, not electrical
stuff.

 

tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote in
news:abc958bd-5799-4fe2-86d1-2fb443328c9a@googlegroups.com:

maybe you missed this bit from the OP:

I already have a crimping tool which I've used for aluminum
compression sleeves, hopefully it will work on stainless
compression sleeves,

Or maybe you're just determined to be a tw-t yet again.

Yes, dork. He too used the wrong term. But he never said "wire"
and you did.

He posted for info, we provided info. You did not. You continued
the flaw and spouted stupid electrical industry conductor parlance
when the topic was mechanical rope type cable. So you missed what he
was asking about, obviously.

And you being a pussy about what spew issues from your brain but
feel the need to abbreviate it here is truly pathetic as well.

tw-t that, dipshit. Yet again... yet another immature punk
response. You were too stupid to even tell that you were fucked up
in what you said and had to go off on me instead of noting the
particular flaw in your post and now subsequent bitch about it.

 

On Sunday, 22 September 2019 14:07:42 UTC+1, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

tabbypurr wrote in
news:f5dd24cf-c4d3-468d-9d88-11bae2024b1f@googlegroups.com:

All I can add is caution about that word 'hopefully'. Crimped
sleeves on wire can look sound & work at first yet still let go
readily, it takes a lot more force on them to ensure they can't
let go.


High tension lines, guy wires... sail boat lines... There are a
lot of cables that get 'swaged' terminations that hold up under
stress. That is the right term... 'Swaged'. A 'crimp' infers an
electrical terminal connection onto a conductor.

Hydraulic fittings also get 'swaged' onto the hose they are being
added to, and they handle hundreds of PSI.

'crimp' sounds weak (for a cable). 'swage' sounds integral,
strong, reliable. If you grew up learning both terms and their
applications.

'crimped sleeves on wire'???

He never mentioned that. He is talking about crimped (swaged)
CLAMPS on stainless WIRE ROPE. Structural stuff, not electrical
stuff.

maybe you missed this bit from the OP:

I already have a crimping tool which I've used for aluminum compression
sleeves, hopefully it will work on stainless compression sleeves,

Or maybe you're just determined to be a tw-t yet again.


NT

 

[Joseph Gwinn]

On Sep 22, 2019, Jamie M wrote
(in article <qm6sf8$1pi5$1@gioia.aioe.org&gt:

Hi,

I am making a safety line for my well pump and using
a 350foot long 1/8" stainless steel cable (1x19, 19 strands).
I have some aluminum crimp ferrules but since a portion of
this cable will be underwater there is a corrosion issue
between aluminum and stainless steel, so I am considering
to use either a stainless steel crimp ferrule to form
a wire loop at the well pump, or some other type of
cable end fitting. Any suggestions on a fitting and
also if the aluminum ferrule would probably be ok or not?

As others have said, do not use aluminum on stainless wire.

What sailboat riggers do is to flood the stranded wire cable with hot lanolin
before assembly and crimping, so there are no open spaces in the crimped
assembly. Lanolin mixed with tar is also used.

There are also commercial products. West Marine sells this one:

..<https://www.forespar.com/products/boat-lubricant-lanocote.shtml>

Joe Gwinn

 

[Local Favorite]

On 09/22/2019 10:53 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:

...
What sailboat riggers do is to flood the stranded wire cable with hot lanolin
before assembly and crimping, so there are no open spaces in the crimped
assembly. Lanolin mixed with tar is also used.

Sounds slippery! Swaged (as DLU correctly insists) fittings don't just
pinch the cable or make a dent in it, the mashed material cold-flows
into the cable. Aircraft control cables are swaged.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 01:05:51 -0700, Jamie M <jmorken@shaw.ca> wrote:

>Any ideas for attaching the safety cable to the top of the well casing?

No, because a pull line is usually attached to something in the well
head or well house. I can't offer any suggestions because I know what
you have to work with. Offhand, I don't like what I'm reading and
suggest you have a well and pump installer look at your plans. Or,
ask the same questions on a forum intended for water well owners. I
are not an expert on the topic.

I have seen one way is to use a wire rope clamp with two small drill
holes through the side of the casing, and then the wire rope clamp is
used to clamp the wire rope to the side of the casing.

https://www.mcmaster.com/30325t61

I suggest you spend a little extra and use stainless steel hardware:
<https://www.mcmaster.com/stainless-steel-wire-rope-loop-clamps>

The well cap usually has a flap valve vent that is designed to
equalize air pressure, but not let any surface water into the well. If
you drill holes in the side of the well casing, you're bypassing the
flap valve.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:08:01 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

...I can't offer any suggestions because I know what
you have to work with.

Oops. That should be
"...because I don't know what you have to work with".

The well cap usually has a flap valve vent that is designed to
equalize air pressure, but not let any surface water into the well. If
you drill holes in the side of the well casing, you're bypassing the
flap valve.

Why you may not want to drill holes in the well casing:
<https://agwt.org/content/well-caps>

You could probably get away with drilling a hole or two into the well
casing. Just make sure it's water tight and sealed against water and
bug incursion.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 23/9/19 5:05 am, Local Favorite wrote:

On 09/22/2019 10:53 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
 ...
What sailboat riggers do is to flood the stranded wire cable with hot
lanolin
before assembly and crimping, so there are no open spaces in the crimped
assembly. Lanolin mixed with tar is also used.

Sounds slippery!

You sound like someone who's never touched raw lanolin.
Slippery is what it's not!

 

[Jamie M]

On 2019-09-22 2:37 p.m., Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:08:01 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote:

...I can't offer any suggestions because I know what
you have to work with.

Oops. That should be
"...because I don't know what you have to work with".

The well cap usually has a flap valve vent that is designed to
equalize air pressure, but not let any surface water into the well. If
you drill holes in the side of the well casing, you're bypassing the
flap valve.

Why you may not want to drill holes in the well casing:
https://agwt.org/content/well-caps

You could probably get away with drilling a hole or two into the well
casing. Just make sure it's water tight and sealed against water and
bug incursion.

Hi,

The well cap wasn't sealed on this well, it is just a one piece cast
aluminum with a gap for the pump 240VAC wires. I will replace that
well cap with a sealed two piece cap thanks.

cheers,
Jamie

 

[Jamie M]

On 2019-09-23 3:25 a.m., Jamie M wrote:

On 2019-09-22 2:37 p.m., Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:08:01 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote:

...I can't offer any suggestions because I know what
you have to work with.

Oops.  That should be
"...because I don't know what you have to work with".

The well cap usually has a flap valve vent that is designed to
equalize air pressure, but not let any surface water into the well. If
you drill holes in the side of the well casing, you're bypassing the
flap valve.

Why you may not want to drill holes in the well casing:
https://agwt.org/content/well-caps

You could probably get away with drilling a hole or two into the well
casing.  Just make sure it's water tight and sealed against water and
bug incursion.



Hi,

The well cap wasn't sealed on this well, it is just a one piece cast
aluminum with a gap for the pump 240VAC wires.  I will replace that
well cap with a sealed two piece cap thanks.

cheers,
Jamie

My aluminum well cap inner diameter is about 6 13/16", and is a hammer
tight fit on the well casing, maybe this one will fit, apparently works
with 6 5/8" casings.

https://www.amazon.com/Well-Cap-ABS-Vent-Tapping/dp/B001RHX0LQ

cheers,
Jamie

 

On Sunday, 22 September 2019 17:35:06 UTC+1, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

tabbypurr wrote in
news:abc958bd-5799-4fe2-86d1-2fb443328c9a@googlegroups.com:

maybe you missed this bit from the OP:

I already have a crimping tool which I've used for aluminum
compression sleeves, hopefully it will work on stainless
compression sleeves,

Or maybe you're just determined to be a tw-t yet again.


Yes, dork. He too used the wrong term. But he never said "wire"
and you did.

He posted for info, we provided info. You did not. You continued
the flaw and spouted stupid electrical industry conductor parlance
when the topic was mechanical rope type cable. So you missed what he
was asking about, obviously.

And you being a pussy about what spew issues from your brain but
feel the need to abbreviate it here is truly pathetic as well.

tw-t that, dipshit. Yet again... yet another immature punk
response. You were too stupid to even tell that you were fucked up
in what you said and had to go off on me instead of noting the
particular flaw in your post and now subsequent bitch about it.

you're free to waste someone else's time.

 

tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote in news:cf0d8d87-666b-4dc7-a6ba-
e1b1bd77fb88@googlegroups.com:

tw-t that, dipshit. Yet again... yet another immature punk
response. You were too stupid to even tell that you were fucked
up
in what you said and had to go off on me instead of noting the
particular flaw in your post and now subsequent bitch about it.

you're free to waste someone else's time.

Yeah, sure.... walk away instead of facing your flaws.

You are free to be corrected again in the future, and you taking it
like a child will result in a similar response again the next time.

You being unfamiliar with the differences between the terms alone
is a tell. Especially when you argue them while in possession of an
incomplete set of information.

Wires get crimped.

Big connection terminal fittings get crimped onto welding cable
ends and the like.

Support strands (cables) get fittings swaged or swedged (in some
circles).

High pressure hoses have fitting swaged onto them.

Some folks across all of those industries still use the term
'crimp' even though 'newer' terms are in place that distinguishes
differences.

Don't get mad, simply get informed.

It is like the twerps that for so long called a single cell a
"battery".

It eventually got accepted as correct terminology, even though it
never was or is not still. So bad to the point where folks refer to
actual sets of cells scientists properly call a "battery" as a
"battery pack", as if the package contains multiple 'batteries'. It
contains mutliple cells.

If you don't like the other monikers like dork or dipshit, maybe
you should not have jumped onto the krw/larkin/TraitorTard4 stupidity
bandwagon. Shit like that tends to end up back in your face.

But notice none in this post. There is a way you can keep that
demeanor in me.