WiFi...

[Don Y]

In my ongoing effort to rid myself of \"excess kit\", I\'m now
turning my attention to my collection of APs.

Is there any reason to hang onto anything pre-WiFi 6?

 

[whit3rd]

On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 12:24:31 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:

In my ongoing effort to rid myself of \"excess kit\", I\'m now
turning my attention to my collection of APs.

Is there any reason to hang onto anything pre-WiFi 6?

Yes; lots of legacy items don\'t handshake with modern security, you need
an old \'g\' or \'b\' access point to connect to \'em.

Compatibility with the RF bits doesn\'t confer any flexibility as regards the software
of connection negotiation. WEP was hard-coded in my old cellphones, iPods, etc., and none
of the WiFi6 items I\'ve seen can handle it.

 

[Don Y]

On 8/6/2023 1:18 PM, whit3rd wrote:

On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 12:24:31 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
In my ongoing effort to rid myself of \"excess kit\", I\'m now
turning my attention to my collection of APs.

Is there any reason to hang onto anything pre-WiFi 6?

Yes; lots of legacy items don\'t handshake with modern security, you need
an old \'g\' or \'b\' access point to connect to \'em.

Hmmm.... that\'s a point. But, I\'d never deploy anything prior to WPA2-AES
so could only see dragging out something \"old\" just to allow it to update
its firmware (on a firewalled subnet).

Compatibility with the RF bits doesn\'t confer any flexibility as regards the software
of connection negotiation. WEP was hard-coded in my old cellphones, iPods, etc., and none
of the WiFi6 items I\'ve seen can handle it.

But, how often do *you* use that connectivity? And, how often do you
offer it to \"guests\" (I don\'t use any wireless technologies, here,
as they are annoying attack surfaces)

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 07-Aug-23 6:18 am, whit3rd wrote:

On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 12:24:31 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
In my ongoing effort to rid myself of \"excess kit\", I\'m now
turning my attention to my collection of APs.

Is there any reason to hang onto anything pre-WiFi 6?

Yes; lots of legacy items don\'t handshake with modern security, you need
an old \'g\' or \'b\' access point to connect to \'em.

Compatibility with the RF bits doesn\'t confer any flexibility as regards the software
of connection negotiation. WEP was hard-coded in my old cellphones, iPods, etc., and none
of the WiFi6 items I\'ve seen can handle it.

Of course, WEP was a security disaster, and having it enabled opens you
to attack.

Sylvia.

 

[Don Y]

On 8/6/2023 5:18 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:

Yes; lots of legacy items don\'t handshake with modern security, you need
an old \'g\' or \'b\' access point to connect to \'em.

Compatibility with the RF bits doesn\'t confer any flexibility as regards the
software
of connection negotiation.   WEP was hard-coded in my old cellphones, iPods,
etc., and none
of the WiFi6 items I\'ve seen can handle it.

Of course, WEP was a security disaster, and having it enabled opens you to attack.

But if you don\'t *deploy* kit with that protocol, you can keep things secure.
OTOH, if you fail to have that *capability* available (because you\'ve thrown
out all of the kit that supports it), then the items that only had that
level of support become bricks

E.g., if the only way to update firmware is via WiFi and you don\'t have the
ability to provide a WiFi connection for the device (cuz all your APs are
newer), then it can never be upgraded (or other stuff installed), regardless
of whether it ever needs to use WiFi thereafter!

[I use lots of PDAs, iPads, iPods, phones, etc. as cameras, note takers,
media players, TELNET terminals (where nothing on the device is precious),
etc.]

 

[Don Y]

On 8/6/2023 5:37 PM, Don Y wrote:

On 8/6/2023 5:18 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
Yes; lots of legacy items don\'t handshake with modern security, you need
an old \'g\' or \'b\' access point to connect to \'em.

Compatibility with the RF bits doesn\'t confer any flexibility as regards the
software
of connection negotiation.   WEP was hard-coded in my old cellphones, iPods,
etc., and none
of the WiFi6 items I\'ve seen can handle it.

Of course, WEP was a security disaster, and having it enabled opens you to
attack.

But if you don\'t *deploy* kit with that protocol, you can keep things secure.
OTOH, if you fail to have that *capability* available (because you\'ve thrown
out all of the kit that supports it), then the items that only had that
level of support become bricks

E.g., if the only way to update firmware is via WiFi and you don\'t have the
ability to provide a WiFi connection for the device (cuz all your APs are
newer), then it can never be upgraded (or other stuff installed), regardless
of whether it ever needs to use WiFi thereafter!

This makes the discard decision tougher as I now have to look at each AP\'s
capabilities and decide which gives me the most flexibility for the least
amount of \"preserved kit\".

 

[Martin Brown]

On 06/08/2023 20:24, Don Y wrote:

In my ongoing effort to rid myself of \"excess kit\", I\'m now
turning my attention to my collection of APs.

Is there any reason to hang onto anything pre-WiFi 6?

Depends if you have anything still useful that needs an earlier version.

APs that accept USB 3/4G dongles can sometimes be useful for providing
temporary internet access at an event or village hall for instance.

--
Martin Brown

 

[John Walliker]

On Monday, 7 August 2023 at 10:21:19 UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:

On 06/08/2023 20:24, Don Y wrote:
In my ongoing effort to rid myself of \"excess kit\", I\'m now
turning my attention to my collection of APs.

Is there any reason to hang onto anything pre-WiFi 6?
Depends if you have anything still useful that needs an earlier version.

APs that accept USB 3/4G dongles can sometimes be useful for providing
temporary internet access at an event or village hall for instance.

I make a point of disabling the older protocols. Not just for security, but
because one very slow device will use a disproportionate amount of
bandwidth. This a particularly bad if another device is using multicast
to transmit video. Some HDMI over ethernet adapters do this. If there is
a slow device on the network the multicast transmissions slow down to
match it and this can completely saturate a WiFi network.
I have disabled legacy protocols in around ten offices and nobody has
complained that they can\'t connect.
If I really needed backwards compatibility for occasional use I would
set up a separate SSID with compatibility turned on.

John

 

[Don Y]

On 8/7/2023 2:21 AM, Martin Brown wrote:

On 06/08/2023 20:24, Don Y wrote:
In my ongoing effort to rid myself of \"excess kit\", I\'m now
turning my attention to my collection of APs.

Is there any reason to hang onto anything pre-WiFi 6?

Depends if you have anything still useful that needs an earlier version.

\"Needs\" is the operative word. As I don\'t use wireless protocols in
places where a *wire* can be used, the \"need\" would have to be \"out of band\",
of sorts. Not inherent in communications.

As I said in my reply to whit3rd, I\'ll have to check everything that
has a radio in it and then each of the discardable APs to see what
I might want to hang onto, per his suggestion, to make connections
to those devices.

APs that accept USB 3/4G dongles can sometimes be useful for providing
temporary internet access at an event or village hall for instance.

I\'ve never seen anything like that. Perhaps a SOHO \"wireless router\"?
(My kit is all true APs: one, maybe two, NIC... no internal hub/switch/router)

[I used 8 or 10 of their *enclosures* to house BT radios when I was
using that technology for location tracking. But, I am gradually
replacing that with video technology, instead... harder to subvert
and eliminates the need for users to wear earpieces!]

 

[Martin Brown]

On 07/08/2023 13:40, Don Y wrote:

On 8/7/2023 2:21 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
On 06/08/2023 20:24, Don Y wrote:
In my ongoing effort to rid myself of \"excess kit\", I\'m now
turning my attention to my collection of APs.

Is there any reason to hang onto anything pre-WiFi 6?

Depends if you have anything still useful that needs an earlier version.

\"Needs\" is the operative word.  As I don\'t use wireless protocols in
places where a *wire* can be used, the \"need\" would have to be \"out of
band\",
of sorts.  Not inherent in communications.

There are a handful of legacy devices with very specific will and won\'t
connect properties. Some Apple kit is very fussy about Wifi chipsets.

As I said in my reply to whit3rd, I\'ll have to check everything that
has a radio in it and then each of the discardable APs to see what
I might want to hang onto, per his suggestion, to make connections
to those devices.

Seems reasonable.

APs that accept USB 3/4G dongles can sometimes be useful for providing
temporary internet access at an event or village hall for instance.

I\'ve never seen anything like that.  Perhaps a SOHO \"wireless router\"?
(My kit is all true APs:  one, maybe two, NIC... no internal
hub/switch/router)

They are intended for SOHO on fixed wire ADSL/VDSL/Fibre but provide a
fallback to the Mobile Network if the fixed line goes down. All the
customer notices is a light to say \"line failure\" and increased costs on
their data usage for the duration. They are quite popular where I live
because the old corroded copper phone lines are so dodgy.

BT even team up with EE to offer such a device as a single service that
is basically just plug in and go no user expertise needed.

https://www.bt.com/exp/halo

They became very popular for work from home during lockdown.

Is there nothing similar in the US? I\'m surprised.
The USB socket(s) can also support a network printer.

--
Martin Brown

 

[Don Y]

On 8/7/2023 9:12 AM, Martin Brown wrote:

On 07/08/2023 13:40, Don Y wrote:
On 8/7/2023 2:21 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
On 06/08/2023 20:24, Don Y wrote:
In my ongoing effort to rid myself of \"excess kit\", I\'m now
turning my attention to my collection of APs.

Is there any reason to hang onto anything pre-WiFi 6?

Depends if you have anything still useful that needs an earlier version.

\"Needs\" is the operative word.  As I don\'t use wireless protocols in
places where a *wire* can be used, the \"need\" would have to be \"out of band\",
of sorts.  Not inherent in communications.

There are a handful of legacy devices with very specific will and won\'t connect
properties. Some Apple kit is very fussy about Wifi chipsets.

As I said in my reply to whit3rd, I\'ll have to check everything that
has a radio in it and then each of the discardable APs to see what
I might want to hang onto, per his suggestion, to make connections
to those devices.

Seems reasonable.

<frown> More work for me. I was hoping to just toss them (by considering
them valueless in light of my WiFi 6 APs!) :-/ But, I would REALLY have
been annoyed to later discover the need for one, as whit3rd opined.

APs that accept USB 3/4G dongles can sometimes be useful for providing
temporary internet access at an event or village hall for instance.

I\'ve never seen anything like that.  Perhaps a SOHO \"wireless router\"?
(My kit is all true APs:  one, maybe two, NIC... no internal hub/switch/router)

They are intended for SOHO on fixed wire ADSL/VDSL/Fibre but provide a fallback
to the Mobile Network if the fixed line goes down. All the customer notices is
a light to say \"line failure\" and increased costs on their data usage for the
duration. They are quite popular where I live because the old corroded copper
phone lines are so dodgy.

Most folks, here, have cell service. There are even \"cellular land lines\"
from some providers. No fiber -- yet. Many use CATV provided inet services.
(like there, PSTN copper is being left to die a slow death as the number
of subscribers diminishes)

BT even team up with EE to offer such a device as a single service that is
basically just plug in and go no user expertise needed.

https://www.bt.com/exp/halo

They became very popular for work from home during lockdown.

Is there nothing similar in the US? I\'m surprised.

I\'m the wrong person to ask re: \"consumer tech\" as I\'m not a typical
consumer (e.g., I\'ve 50 ports just in my office -- and NO wifi!)

I know there are MiFi devices available (a smart phone without the
display and audio paths) that can act as local WiFi access points.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiFi>
But, I think their use/manufacture is deprecated as most folks
would (now) just use a phone for that functionality.

Most of the consumer wireless devices I\'ve seen (amongst items
\"discarded\" for recycling) are a simple/stateful router, radio
(a/b/g/n) and small (4 port) \"switch\" -- often with a dedicated
port for DMZ.

My APs are ONLY radios (usually two) and one or two NICs
(one of which is PoE or PoE+) with a few idiot lights
to allow status to be verified while it\'s mounted on a ceiling.
Often, a UART for a \"console\" function (increasingly rare).
They hang *off* a switch like any other device.

They usually have management software that allows clients
to be handed off and bandwidth reapportioned to maximize
network throughput (though not essential for operation).
Some can be configured to simultaneously monitor for
malicious intent.

> The USB socket(s) can also support a network printer.

I see those offered for expansion on NASs (and some SOHO SANs)
E.g., I can add a wifi dongle to a NAS so it needn\'t rely
on wired service. Or, a printer. Or, external disks.