WI-FI 802.11 11Mbps interface for AVR (or PIC)

[Pang Fu]

Is it practically possible to attach a 802.11 PCMCIA based wireless network
unit to an AVR (or PIC) ?

Pang Fu
nospam_pangfu@hotmail.com

 

[Jim Stewart]

Dana Raymond wrote:

You may want to consider using am 8088/8086 based micro as you may be able
to port public domain software for you project (linux?)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You misspelt "open source"

 

[pyr]

It sure is possible. I recall NEC had a microcontroller contest, first
price was a WIFI sniffer which was the NEC KORE microcontroller
directly interfaced with a (802.11) PCMCIA adapter + card.

http://www.necelam.com/k0recontest/results/koreindustrial.cfm

"Dana Raymond" <draymond@austin.rr.com> writes:

Yes, it is techically possible. The PCMCIA interface is not too difficult to
connect to a microcontroller. However the practical (as you stated)
limitation is going to be the software drivers specific to the card. There
should be several software layers to implement, from interfacing the chips,
the PCMCIA, and the above network interface layers.

You may want to consider using am 8088/8086 based micro as you may be able
to port public domain software for you project (linux?)

Have Fun!
Dana Frank Raymond

"Pang Fu" <pangfu@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3f4b6e4c_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
Is it practically possible to attach a 802.11 PCMCIA based wireless
network
unit to an AVR (or PIC) ?

Pang Fu
nospam_pangfu@hotmail.com

--
pyr

 

[Mjolinor]

"Jim Stewart" <jstewart@jkmicro.com> wrote in message
news:bigrtk$fkq@library2.airnews.net...

Dana Raymond wrote:

You may want to consider using am 8088/8086 based micro as you may be
able
to port public domain software for you project (linux?)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You misspelt "open source"

No, not misspelt, it should have been written as follows.

You may want to consider using am 8088/8086 based micro as you may be able
to port public domain software for you project (or perhaps use open source,
linux?)

 

[Ian Stirling]

In sci.electronics.design Dana Raymond <draymond@austin.rr.com> wrote:

Yes, it is techically possible. The PCMCIA interface is not too difficult to
connect to a microcontroller. However the practical (as you stated)
snip quoted message incorrectly placed at bottom

All (?) 802.11 cards are not PCMCIA, but cardbus, which is a rather newer
standard, more like a cut-down PCI, than a cut-down ISA which PCMCIA is.

I'd like to be wrong, at least in one case, as I've got some 486/75 laptops
I'd like to put wireless cards in.
Cardbus hit around the time between 100Mhz and 233Mhz pentiums in laptops.
It's not backwards compatible.

Cardbus is I believe unfortunately significantly harder to talk to, as is
PCI, compared to ISA.

--
http://inquisitor.i.am/ | mailto:inquisitor@i.am | Ian Stirling.
---------------------------+-------------------------+--------------------------
All I want is a warm bed, a kind word and unlimited power -- Ashleigh Brilliant.

 

[Jeremy Bentham]

Ian Stirling <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote:

In sci.electronics.design Dana Raymond <draymond@austin.rr.com> wrote:
Yes, it is techically possible. The PCMCIA interface is not too difficult to
connect to a microcontroller. However the practical (as you stated)
snip quoted message incorrectly placed at bottom

All (?) 802.11 cards are not PCMCIA, but cardbus, which is a rather newer
standard, more like a cut-down PCI, than a cut-down ISA which PCMCIA is.

I'd like to be wrong, at least in one case, as I've got some 486/75 laptops
I'd like to put wireless cards in.
Cardbus hit around the time between 100Mhz and 233Mhz pentiums in laptops.
It's not backwards compatible.

Cardbus is I believe unfortunately significantly harder to talk to, as is
PCI, compared to ISA.

You are wrong; the majority of 802.11b cards are PCMCIA, not cardbus,
but it is possible that older laptops are incompatible because they
have 5V-only interfaces, and some WLAN cards are 3.3V-only.

There is a move toward cardbus for 802.11a or g cards; these use PCI
bus-mastering to DMA the WLAN data directly into the PC's memory, so
developing a microcontroller interface is a challenging task. In the
meantime, there are a lot of suitable PCMCIA WLAN cards around, see
our FAQ http://www.iosoft.co.uk/wlanfaq.php

Jeremy Bentham
Iosoft Ltd.

 

[Ian Stirling]

In sci.electronics.design Jeremy Bentham <jben@iosoft.nospam.uk> wrote:

Ian Stirling <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote:

In sci.electronics.design Dana Raymond <draymond@austin.rr.com> wrote:
Yes, it is techically possible. The PCMCIA interface is not too difficult to
connect to a microcontroller. However the practical (as you stated)
snip quoted message incorrectly placed at bottom

All (?) 802.11 cards are not PCMCIA, but cardbus, which is a rather newer
standard, more like a cut-down PCI, than a cut-down ISA which PCMCIA is.
snip
Cardbus is I believe unfortunately significantly harder to talk to, as is
PCI, compared to ISA.

You are wrong; the majority of 802.11b cards are PCMCIA, not cardbus,
but it is possible that older laptops are incompatible because they
have 5V-only interfaces, and some WLAN cards are 3.3V-only.

There is a move toward cardbus for 802.11a or g cards; these use PCI
bus-mastering to DMA the WLAN data directly into the PC's memory, so
developing a microcontroller interface is a challenging task. In the
meantime, there are a lot of suitable PCMCIA WLAN cards around, see
our FAQ http://www.iosoft.co.uk/wlanfaq.php

Many thanks, will have a look.

--
http://inquisitor.i.am/ | mailto:inquisitor@i.am | Ian Stirling.
---------------------------+-------------------------+--------------------------
"I am the Emperor, and I want dumplings." - Austrian Emperor, Ferdinand I.

 

[Jeremy Bentham]

"Pang Fu" <pangfu@hotmail.com> wrote:

Is it possible to modify the 802.11 network cards (either on the PCMCIA
and/or on the cardbus bus) and take the RF part out to use it for point to
point data comm between AVR (or PIC) controllers?

It'd be really difficult; the card & chipset manufacturers won't give
you the necessary circuit diagrams & data, and the components can be
microscopically small - dismantle a PCMCIA card and see for yourself.

OR is it possible to find/buy the RF section of 802.11 cards as a seperate
stand alone module for high-speed data comm?

The key words are 'high speed'. If a medium speed link would do (say
100 kbps or so) there are various OEM solutions that would do this at
reasonable cost; for simplicity, they tend to be frequency-hopping
rather than direct-sequence.

If you really need a multi-megabit link then there is little choice
but to go for one of the 802.11 standards. Obtaining reliable
communications at these rates is difficult, so the complexity of these
wireless cards is necessary, and it is amazing that such a
sophisticated piece of technology costs so little.

In your desire for speed, don't forget there are limits as to the raw
data rate a PICmicro (or similar) can handle; there's little point in
running a 54 megabit link into a 40 MHz microcontroller.

Jeremy Bentham
Iosoft Ltd.

 

[Vladimir Vassilevsky]

Pang Fu wrote:

Is it possible to modify the 802.11 network cards (either on the PCMCIA
and/or on the cardbus bus) and take the RF part out to use it for point to
point data comm between AVR (or PIC) controllers?

It is not possible practically.

OR is it possible to find/buy the RF section of 802.11 cards as a seperate
stand alone module for high-speed data comm?

There is a number of OEM wireless high speed modems available. Or you
can use Bluetooth modules.

Vladimir Vassilevsky

DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant

http://www.abvolt.com

 

[Movation]

Why not use a USB 802.11 Much easier to build the interface

--

Jacob
Console Innovations Australia
Xbox Hardware Development
sales@consoleinnovations.com
PH: 0402 815468
"Ian Stirling" <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bilgvs$qut$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...

In sci.electronics.design Jeremy Bentham <jben@iosoft.nospam.uk> wrote:
Ian Stirling <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote:

In sci.electronics.design Dana Raymond <draymond@austin.rr.com> wrote:
Yes, it is techically possible. The PCMCIA interface is not too
difficult to
connect to a microcontroller. However the practical (as you stated)
snip quoted message incorrectly placed at bottom

All (?) 802.11 cards are not PCMCIA, but cardbus, which is a rather
newer
standard, more like a cut-down PCI, than a cut-down ISA which PCMCIA is.
snip
Cardbus is I believe unfortunately significantly harder to talk to, as
is
PCI, compared to ISA.

You are wrong; the majority of 802.11b cards are PCMCIA, not cardbus,
but it is possible that older laptops are incompatible because they
have 5V-only interfaces, and some WLAN cards are 3.3V-only.

There is a move toward cardbus for 802.11a or g cards; these use PCI
bus-mastering to DMA the WLAN data directly into the PC's memory, so
developing a microcontroller interface is a challenging task. In the
meantime, there are a lot of suitable PCMCIA WLAN cards around, see
our FAQ http://www.iosoft.co.uk/wlanfaq.php

Many thanks, will have a look.

--
http://inquisitor.i.am/ | mailto:inquisitor@i.am | Ian
Stirling.
---------------------------+-------------------------+--------------------
------
"I am the Emperor, and I want dumplings." - Austrian Emperor,
Ferdinand I.

 

[Inato Yapamo]

That is good idea!!!

"Movation" <sales@consoleinnovations.com> wrote in message
news:3f4fd48f@news.comindico.com.au...

Why not use a USB 802.11 Much easier to build the interface

--

 

[Alex Gibson]

"Jeremy Bentham" <jben@iosoft.nospam.uk> wrote in message news:b4n0lv8ta6av61mft89slsijqj7b7skmmi@4ax.com...

"Movation" <sales@consoleinnovations.com> wrote:

Why not use a USB 802.11 Much easier to build the interface

We don't use USB WLAN adaptors because the're designed to be driven
from a PC, and there is a complete lack of any programming information
that could be used to write a microcontroller driver.

USB is struggling to migrate from its PC-centric roots into something
genuinely useful for embedded systems; there is a new peer-to-peer
'USB on the go' standard, but I'm not aware of any available WLAN
adaptors using this yet.

Jeremy Bentham
Iosoft Ltd.

What about the wireless usb from cypress ?
http://www.cypress.com/products/family.cfm?objectID=82367DDD-DFFF-413F-B5DC928E8B06EEFF&foid=82367DDD-DFFF-413F-B5DC928E8B06EEFF

I thought the phillips chips for usb2go were all ready available ?

Alex GIbson

 

[Ian Stirling]

In sci.electronics.design Jeremy Bentham <jben@iosoft.nospam.uk> wrote:

"Movation" <sales@consoleinnovations.com> wrote:

Why not use a USB 802.11 Much easier to build the interface

We don't use USB WLAN adaptors because the're designed to be driven
from a PC, and there is a complete lack of any programming information
that could be used to write a microcontroller driver.

A quick google revealed that there are a few USB WLAN adaptors that
work under linux.
http://atmelwlandriver.sourceforge.net/
Which has GPL source, may be of use to write a microcontroller
driver.

The other problem is that you not only (for current devices) have to
write a driver for the NIC, but for USB.
This is moderately complex, especially on a slow PIC, perhaps a much
faster chip could do it in software.

USB is struggling to migrate from its PC-centric roots into something
genuinely useful for embedded systems; there is a new peer-to-peer
'USB on the go' standard, but I'm not aware of any available WLAN
adaptors using this yet.

--
http://inquisitor.i.am/ | mailto:inquisitor@i.am | Ian Stirling.
---------------------------+-------------------------+--------------------------
To do is to be
To be is to do
Do be do be do do

 

[Jeremy Bentham]

Ian Stirling <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote:

In sci.electronics.design Jeremy Bentham <jben@iosoft.nospam.uk> wrote:
"Movation" <sales@consoleinnovations.com> wrote:

Why not use a USB 802.11 Much easier to build the interface

We don't use USB WLAN adaptors because the're designed to be driven
from a PC, and there is a complete lack of any programming information
that could be used to write a microcontroller driver.

A quick google revealed that there are a few USB WLAN adaptors that
work under linux.
http://atmelwlandriver.sourceforge.net/
Which has GPL source, may be of use to write a microcontroller
driver.

The other problem is that you not only (for current devices) have to
write a driver for the NIC, but for USB.
This is moderately complex, especially on a slow PIC, perhaps a much
faster chip could do it in software.

I think 'moderately complex' is an under-statement of the problems
associated with cramming the huge amount of Linux USB & 802.11 code
into a microcontroler, whilst still achieving the high data rates the
OP wanted.

'Extremely difficult, maybe impossible' is what I'd say.

Jeremy Bentham
Iosoft Ltd.

 

[Jeremy Bentham]

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 00:56:09 +1000, "Alex Gibson" <alxx@ihug.com.au>
wrote:

"Jeremy Bentham" <jben@iosoft.nospam.uk> wrote in message news:b4n0lv8ta6av61mft89slsijqj7b7skmmi@4ax.com...
"Movation" <sales@consoleinnovations.com> wrote:

Why not use a USB 802.11 Much easier to build the interface

We don't use USB WLAN adaptors because the're designed to be driven
from a PC, and there is a complete lack of any programming information
that could be used to write a microcontroller driver.

USB is struggling to migrate from its PC-centric roots into something
genuinely useful for embedded systems; there is a new peer-to-peer
'USB on the go' standard, but I'm not aware of any available WLAN
adaptors using this yet.

Jeremy Bentham
Iosoft Ltd.

What about the wireless usb from cypress ?
http://www.cypress.com/products/family.cfm?objectID=82367DDD-DFFF-413F-B5DC928E8B06EEFF&foid=82367DDD-DFFF-413F-B5DC928E8B06EEFF

I don't know much about this, but it seems to be the wireless
exquivalent of a USB extension cable so that, for example, I can link
a USB digital camera wirelessly to my PC's USB port.

It might be an interesting solution for some point-to-point WLAN
networking problems, but is relatively slow, and doesn't seem
compatible with the usual 802.11 networking infrastructure.

I thought the phillips chips for usb2go were all ready available ?

Possibly, but they still have to be put on a board and programmed;
compare this with the proven simplicity of adding a PCMCIA or CF
connector directly to your microcontroller I/O pins.

The 'easier' option of using a USB WLAN adaptor doesn't seem that easy
at present, but might become a lot more plausible in the future.

Jeremy Bentham
Iosoft Ltd.

 

[Ian Stirling]

In sci.electronics.design Jeremy Bentham <jben@iosoft.nospam.uk> wrote:

Ian Stirling <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote:

In sci.electronics.design Jeremy Bentham <jben@iosoft.nospam.uk> wrote:
"Movation" <sales@consoleinnovations.com> wrote:

Why not use a USB 802.11 Much easier to build the interface

We don't use USB WLAN adaptors because the're designed to be driven
from a PC, and there is a complete lack of any programming information
that could be used to write a microcontroller driver.

A quick google revealed that there are a few USB WLAN adaptors that
work under linux.
http://atmelwlandriver.sourceforge.net/
Which has GPL source, may be of use to write a microcontroller
driver.

The other problem is that you not only (for current devices) have to
write a driver for the NIC, but for USB.
This is moderately complex, especially on a slow PIC, perhaps a much
faster chip could do it in software.

I think 'moderately complex' is an under-statement of the problems
associated with cramming the huge amount of Linux USB & 802.11 code
into a microcontroler, whilst still achieving the high data rates the
OP wanted.

'Extremely difficult, maybe impossible' is what I'd say.

I wasn't talking about using the linux code directly, but using it
in lieu of proper documentation to develop software for the micro.

Sorry.

--
http://inquisitor.i.am/ | mailto:inquisitor@i.am | Ian Stirling.
---------------------------+-------------------------+--------------------------
Q: What do you call a train that doesn't stop at stations?
A: Thomas the Bastard. -- Ben

 

[Robert Monsen]

"Ian Stirling" <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:biqd3b$6n5$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...

In sci.electronics.design Jeremy Bentham <jben@iosoft.nospam.uk> wrote:
"Movation" <sales@consoleinnovations.com> wrote:

Why not use a USB 802.11 Much easier to build the interface

We don't use USB WLAN adaptors because the're designed to be driven
from a PC, and there is a complete lack of any programming information
that could be used to write a microcontroller driver.

A quick google revealed that there are a few USB WLAN adaptors that
work under linux.
http://atmelwlandriver.sourceforge.net/
Which has GPL source, may be of use to write a microcontroller
driver.

The other problem is that you not only (for current devices) have to
write a driver for the NIC, but for USB.
This is moderately complex, especially on a slow PIC, perhaps a much
faster chip could do it in software.

FYI: There is free software for a USB slave for a PIC chip on the microchip
site. Their PICkit 1 flash starter kit uses USB, and uses a PIC16C745 to
drive the USB. I'm not sure if it would be useful in this application.

USB is struggling to migrate from its PC-centric roots into something
genuinely useful for embedded systems; there is a new peer-to-peer
'USB on the go' standard, but I'm not aware of any available WLAN
adaptors using this yet.



--
http://inquisitor.i.am/ | mailto:inquisitor@i.am | Ian
Stirling.
---------------------------+-------------------------+--------------------
------
To do is to be
To be is to do
Do be do be do do

 

[Shane Bouslough]

"Robert Monsen" <postmaster@BulkingPro.com> wrote in message news:<tBc5b.257508$Oz4.67626@rwcrnsc54>...

FYI: There is free software for a USB slave for a PIC chip on the microchip
site. Their PICkit 1 flash starter kit uses USB, and uses a PIC16C745 to
drive the USB. I'm not sure if it would be useful in this application.

How about this? http://www.myplace.nu/mp3/usb_module.htm
It's a USB interface with the stack on the part. It is a
parallel interrface though (requires 8 data and 4 control
pins), so your micro may not have that many pins available.

Pretty cheap... $25US as a kit, if I remember.

-Shane

 

[Ian Stirling]

In sci.electronics.design Shane Bouslough <shanebouslough@hotmail.com> wrote:

"Robert Monsen" <postmaster@BulkingPro.com> wrote in message news:<tBc5b.257508$Oz4.67626@rwcrnsc54>...

FYI: There is free software for a USB slave for a PIC chip on the microchip
site. Their PICkit 1 flash starter kit uses USB, and uses a PIC16C745 to
drive the USB. I'm not sure if it would be useful in this application.

How about this? http://www.myplace.nu/mp3/usb_module.htm
It's a USB interface with the stack on the part. It is a
parallel interrface though (requires 8 data and 4 control
pins), so your micro may not have that many pins available.

Pretty cheap... $25US as a kit, if I remember.

Assuming that's the part I'm familiar with - no, it won't help.
It's the wrong end, acting as a peripheral, rather than a host.

--
http://inquisitor.i.am/ | mailto:inquisitor@i.am | Ian Stirling.
---------------------------+-------------------------+--------------------------
The fight between good and evil, an epic battle. Darth vader and Luke,
suddenly in the middle of the fight, Darth pulls Luke to him, and whispers
"I know what you'r getting for christmas!" Luke exclaims "But how ??!?"
"It's true Luke, I know what you'r getting for christmas" Luke tries to ignore
this, but wrenches himself free, yelling "How could you know this?",
Vader replies "I felt your presents" -- The Chris Evans breakfast show ca. 94

 

[K Mussatt]

You can always contact Atmel (AVR).
They are pretty good about getting you technical data and support.

-Kip Mussatt

"Shane Bouslough" <shanebouslough@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b72fa73c.0309030644.1a70de76@posting.google.com...

"Robert Monsen" <postmaster@BulkingPro.com> wrote in message
news:<tBc5b.257508$Oz4.67626@rwcrnsc54>...

FYI: There is free software for a USB slave for a PIC chip on the
microchip
site. Their PICkit 1 flash starter kit uses USB, and uses a PIC16C745 to
drive the USB. I'm not sure if it would be useful in this application.

How about this? http://www.myplace.nu/mp3/usb_module.htm
It's a USB interface with the stack on the part. It is a
parallel interrface though (requires 8 data and 4 control
pins), so your micro may not have that many pins available.

Pretty cheap... $25US as a kit, if I remember.

-Shane