Why you should change your vehicle to flex fuel

[........]

Dear Everyone,
as you know the price of the Oil is more and more increasing, while
the oil supply is decreasing. Moreover Oil
is causing wars, terror, oil spills and a lot of greenhouse gases.
By upgrading your car to flex fuel, you will continue to be able to
use oil. However you will also have the
opportunity to use E85, that means more freedom of choice. The
conversion cost is about 200-250 USD.
By choosing ethanol, you choose local fuel production, which means
labour for farmers, labour for enginneers
and workers in the ethanol plant, labour for transportation. Moreover
you also help for indirect labour. Since
the money stays in your country, this money will turn and produce
indirect labour. Since the farmer will gain
your additional fuel money, he will buy other things (labour is again
needed for their production), which in case
of oil the oil-Sheikhs or their people would do.
That ethanol production increases the food prices is also not totally
right, first there is a by-product called
"distillers dried grains with solubles", which is used as feed for
livestock, that is also nothing else than
food. Moreover, by using ethanol, you put pressure on oil prices,
which has also an important effect on food
prices. You also give your money for more research (again labour),
which will yield in higher efficiency of
production and alternative production methods like cellulosic ethanol,
which will change the whole equation.
Again in case of oil this money would be spent for oil rigs, oil-
infrastructure, but also for weapons to
defend the oil.
By using ethanol, you produce less CO2, since it is produced by corn,
which actually consumed the CO2 in the air
for its growing. The more people use ethanol, the higher the
efficiencies will come for production (similar to
solar cells). The prices will go further down, and much less CO2 will
be produced during production in the plant.
Do you know that the production efficiencies already improved 30% ?*
Another reason for using ethanol is that oil prices will come up
again, when the barrel price of 150 USD is back
you will be very happy to have your vehicle converted. The conversion
also increases the value of your vehicle.

Yours sincerely.


Sources:
*http://brownfieldagnews.com/2010/09/21/ethanol-production-efficiency-
improves/

 

[LSMFT]

......... wrote:

Dear Everyone,
as you know the price of the Oil is more and more increasing, while
the oil supply is decreasing. Moreover Oil
is causing wars, terror, oil spills and a lot of greenhouse gases.
By upgrading your car to flex fuel, you will continue to be able to
use oil. However you will also have the
opportunity to use E85, that means more freedom of choice. The
conversion cost is about 200-250 USD.
By choosing ethanol, you choose local fuel production, which means
labour for farmers, labour for enginneers
and workers in the ethanol plant, labour for transportation. Moreover
you also help for indirect labour. Since
the money stays in your country, this money will turn and produce
indirect labour. Since the farmer will gain
your additional fuel money, he will buy other things (labour is again
needed for their production), which in case
of oil the oil-Sheikhs or their people would do.
That ethanol production increases the food prices is also not totally
right, first there is a by-product called
"distillers dried grains with solubles", which is used as feed for
livestock, that is also nothing else than
food. Moreover, by using ethanol, you put pressure on oil prices,
which has also an important effect on food
prices. You also give your money for more research (again labour),
which will yield in higher efficiency of
production and alternative production methods like cellulosic ethanol,
which will change the whole equation.
Again in case of oil this money would be spent for oil rigs, oil-
infrastructure, but also for weapons to
defend the oil.
By using ethanol, you produce less CO2, since it is produced by corn,
which actually consumed the CO2 in the air
for its growing. The more people use ethanol, the higher the
efficiencies will come for production (similar to
solar cells). The prices will go further down, and much less CO2 will
be produced during production in the plant.
Do you know that the production efficiencies already improved 30% ?*
Another reason for using ethanol is that oil prices will come up
again, when the barrel price of 150 USD is back
you will be very happy to have your vehicle converted. The conversion
also increases the value of your vehicle.

Yours sincerely.


Sources:
*http://brownfieldagnews.com/2010/09/21/ethanol-production-efficiency-
improves/

The government should mandate that all car companies make ALL vehicles
Flex-fuel. It's doesn't cost much but I think the oil companies are
bribing the car companies not to do it. If all cars were flex fuel,
alternative suppliers would begin to pop up everywhere weaning us of
terrorist's oil supplies.



--
LSMFT

Simple job, assist the assistant of the physicist.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

The government should mandate that car companies make
ALL vehicles Flex-fuel. It doesn't cost much but I think the
oil companies are bribing the car companies not to do it. If
all cars were flex fuel, alternative suppliers would begin to
pop up everywhere weaning us of terrorist's oil supplies.

No, it's not expensive, and GM used to make a lot of flex-fuel autos. (Don't
know if they still do.)

Problem is, ethyl alcohol is still not really cost-competitive with
gasoline. Making lots of cars that use it would increase the demand, but I
don't think that would do much to reduce production cost, something that
alcohol producers have been trying to do /regardless/ of whether there are
cars to use alcohol.

 

[Charles]

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
news:ibkjnk$rmj$2@news.eternal-september.org...

The government should mandate that car companies make
ALL vehicles Flex-fuel. It doesn't cost much but I think the
oil companies are bribing the car companies not to do it. If
all cars were flex fuel, alternative suppliers would begin to
pop up everywhere weaning us of terrorist's oil supplies.

No, it's not expensive, and GM used to make a lot of flex-fuel autos. (Don't
know if they still do.)

Problem is, ethyl alcohol is still not really cost-competitive with
gasoline. Making lots of cars that use it would increase the demand, but I
don't think that would do much to reduce production cost, something that
alcohol producers have been trying to do /regardless/ of whether there are
cars to use alcohol.

It is more than just the surface data. More land clearing, more pesticides,
more fertilizers, increasing food costs for folks who can ill afford that,
more environmental damage, and the beat goes on.

Ethyl alcohol is for making us stupid (when we drink it and also when we
imagine it to be a solution to the Middle East crisis).

Flex fuel cars? Sure, why not (as William said, it is really not a big
deal). However, the corn thing here in the US would collapse immediately if
ALL the government subsidies were cancelled (and they should be).

It is time to bite the bullet and increase the cost of energy (by removing
government manipulation and subsidies) and thus encourage conservation and
investment into better ideas.

But, NO, the US just printed another six hundred billion dollars of fake
money to prop up an unsustainable economic system for another month or two.
And when it all falls down, we will be worried about far more than flex fuel
cars.

Humpty Dumpty is soon going to have a great fall.

 

[Jamie]

Charles wrote:

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
news:ibkjnk$rmj$2@news.eternal-september.org...

The government should mandate that car companies make
ALL vehicles Flex-fuel. It doesn't cost much but I think the
oil companies are bribing the car companies not to do it. If
all cars were flex fuel, alternative suppliers would begin to
pop up everywhere weaning us of terrorist's oil supplies.


No, it's not expensive, and GM used to make a lot of flex-fuel autos.
(Don't
know if they still do.)

Problem is, ethyl alcohol is still not really cost-competitive with
gasoline. Making lots of cars that use it would increase the demand, but I
don't think that would do much to reduce production cost, something that
alcohol producers have been trying to do /regardless/ of whether there are
cars to use alcohol.

It is more than just the surface data. More land clearing, more
pesticides, more fertilizers, increasing food costs for folks who can
ill afford that, more environmental damage, and the beat goes on.

Ethyl alcohol is for making us stupid (when we drink it and also when we
imagine it to be a solution to the Middle East crisis).

Flex fuel cars? Sure, why not (as William said, it is really not a big
deal). However, the corn thing here in the US would collapse
immediately if ALL the government subsidies were cancelled (and they
should be).

It is time to bite the bullet and increase the cost of energy (by
removing government manipulation and subsidies) and thus encourage
conservation and investment into better ideas.

But, NO, the US just printed another six hundred billion dollars of fake
money to prop up an unsustainable economic system for another month or
two. And when it all falls down, we will be worried about far more than
flex fuel cars.

Humpty Dumpty is soon going to have a great fall.

OBama says you're welcome.

 

[LSMFT]

William Sommerwerck wrote:

The government should mandate that car companies make
ALL vehicles Flex-fuel. It doesn't cost much but I think the
oil companies are bribing the car companies not to do it. If
all cars were flex fuel, alternative suppliers would begin to
pop up everywhere weaning us of terrorist's oil supplies.

No, it's not expensive, and GM used to make a lot of flex-fuel autos. (Don't
know if they still do.)

Problem is, ethyl alcohol is still not really cost-competitive with
gasoline. Making lots of cars that use it would increase the demand, but I
don't think that would do much to reduce production cost, something that
alcohol producers have been trying to do /regardless/ of whether there are
cars to use alcohol.


There is a lot more than alcohol. There is LNG, liquid propane,

vegetable oil and bio-diesel for diesel cars and flex fuel cars can burn
it too. There is butane, hydrogen, methane, other who knows what that
entrepreneurs would come up with IF they could sell it.

--
LSMFT

Simple job, assist the assistant of the physicist.

 

[Jeffrey Angus]

On 11/15/2010 11:55 AM, LSMFT wrote:

There is a lot more than alcohol. There is LNG, liquid propane,
vegetable oil and bio-diesel for diesel cars and flex fuel cars can burn
it too. There is butane, hydrogen, methane, other who knows what that
entrepreneurs would come up with IF they could sell it.

You seem to miss the point. Yes there are alternative fuels available,
however, there isn't the infrastructure in place for them.

There's two type of fuel you KNOW you'll be able to find on a long
distance trip. Gasoline and diesel. No kerosene, alcohol, charging
stations etc..

The infrastructure of gasoline and diesel have been put in place
over the past 100 years. That isn't going to change over night.

Kind of like the phone company. There is billions of miles of wire
installed.

Jeff

 

[LSMFT]

Jeffrey Angus wrote:

On 11/15/2010 11:55 AM, LSMFT wrote:
There is a lot more than alcohol. There is LNG, liquid propane,
vegetable oil and bio-diesel for diesel cars and flex fuel cars can burn
it too. There is butane, hydrogen, methane, other who knows what that
entrepreneurs would come up with IF they could sell it.

You seem to miss the point. Yes there are alternative fuels available,
however, there isn't the infrastructure in place for them.

There's two type of fuel you KNOW you'll be able to find on a long
distance trip. Gasoline and diesel. No kerosene, alcohol, charging
stations etc..

The infrastructure of gasoline and diesel have been put in place
over the past 100 years. That isn't going to change over night.

Kind of like the phone company. There is billions of miles of wire
installed.

Jeff

A new infrastructure will never get off the ground if no car can burn
it. If all cars were flex fuel I could start selling something to my
neighbors, then the town, make a little money, expand to another town,
then the next state. Gas stations started with one. then expanded.
I guess some people don't get it.

--
LSMFT

Simple job, assist the assistant of the physicist.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

LSMFT wrote:

Jeffrey Angus wrote:
On 11/15/2010 11:55 AM, LSMFT wrote:
There is a lot more than alcohol. There is LNG, liquid propane,
vegetable oil and bio-diesel for diesel cars and flex fuel cars can burn
it too. There is butane, hydrogen, methane, other who knows what that
entrepreneurs would come up with IF they could sell it.

You seem to miss the point. Yes there are alternative fuels available,
however, there isn't the infrastructure in place for them.

There's two type of fuel you KNOW you'll be able to find on a long
distance trip. Gasoline and diesel. No kerosene, alcohol, charging
stations etc..

The infrastructure of gasoline and diesel have been put in place
over the past 100 years. That isn't going to change over night.

Kind of like the phone company. There is billions of miles of wire
installed.

Jeff

A new infrastructure will never get off the ground if no car can burn
it. If all cars were flex fuel I could start selling something to my
neighbors, then the town, make a little money, expand to another town,
then the next state. Gas stations started with one. then expanded.
I guess some people don't get it.

Just 'what' are you going to sell your neighbors? There are all
kinds of permits required to sell any fuel. Are you going to jury rig
some pile of crap and ignore those laws? You mention Hydrogen. Do you
have any idea of the problems of storing Hydrogen? Steel is porous to
hydrogen and will develop embrittlemnt problems. Biodiesel requires the
same storage facilites as diesel. Alcohol requires federal license to
manufacture in quantity. Do you want the ATF to go Waco on your ass?


--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

 

[Jim Yanik]

Jeffrey Angus <jangus@suddenlink.net> wrote in
news:4ce18a23$0$14803$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net:

On 11/15/2010 11:55 AM, LSMFT wrote:
There is a lot more than alcohol. There is LNG, liquid propane,
vegetable oil and bio-diesel for diesel cars and flex fuel cars can burn
it too. There is butane, hydrogen, methane, other who knows what that
entrepreneurs would come up with IF they could sell it.

You seem to miss the point. Yes there are alternative fuels available,
however, there isn't the infrastructure in place for them.

There's two type of fuel you KNOW you'll be able to find on a long
distance trip. Gasoline and diesel. No kerosene, alcohol, charging
stations etc..

The infrastructure of gasoline and diesel have been put in place
over the past 100 years. That isn't going to change over night.

Kind of like the phone company. There is billions of miles of wire
installed.

Jeff

how does LNG or propane work with electronic fuel injection?
do you have to redo the -entire- engine control system,along with the fuel
system and intake? Emissions controls too?
cars don't have carburetors anymore,it's all multi-point fuel injection.

ISTR that "flex-fuel" cars use LIQUID fuels,not gases or liquified gases.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

 

[Charles]

"LSMFT" wrote in message news:WteEo.27896$3f.27562@newsfe12.iad...

William Sommerwerck wrote:

The government should mandate that car companies make
ALL vehicles Flex-fuel. It doesn't cost much but I think the
oil companies are bribing the car companies not to do it. If
all cars were flex fuel, alternative suppliers would begin to
pop up everywhere weaning us of terrorist's oil supplies.

No, it's not expensive, and GM used to make a lot of flex-fuel autos.
(Don't
know if they still do.)

Problem is, ethyl alcohol is still not really cost-competitive with
gasoline. Making lots of cars that use it would increase the demand, but I
don't think that would do much to reduce production cost, something that
alcohol producers have been trying to do /regardless/ of whether there are
cars to use alcohol.


There is a lot more than alcohol. There is LNG, liquid propane,

vegetable oil and bio-diesel for diesel cars and flex fuel cars can burn
it too. There is butane, hydrogen, methane, other who knows what that
entrepreneurs would come up with IF they could sell it.

Yes, but flex fuel is rather specific:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/flextech.shtml

Topic drift is one thing but .................