B
Bret Cahill
Guest
That doesn't seem to make any sense.
Bret Cahill
Bret Cahill
W
whit3rd
Guest
On Friday, May 11, 2012 10:38:54 AM UTC-7, Bret Cahill wrote:
which needs regular maintenance (rotor and distributor cap replacement)
or by multiple coils. You can run a four-cylinder engine on four
coils, or two coils with polarity-switching diodes, or one coil and a
maintenance nuisance.
Automotive engine spark is switched either by HV contacts (a distributor)
which needs regular maintenance (rotor and distributor cap replacement)
or by multiple coils. You can run a four-cylinder engine on four
coils, or two coils with polarity-switching diodes, or one coil and a
maintenance nuisance.
B
Bret Cahill
Guest
In this case it's just a 12 volt DC 60 watt power supply on an old
Honda 100 outboard. Maybe use it to charge up a battery and/or run
running lights.
Bret Cahill
J
Jamie
Guest
Bret Cahill wrote:
Maybe you could elaborate a little more on what system you are talking
about ?
Jamie
is AC?
Maybe you could elaborate a little more on what system you are talking
about ?
Jamie
B
Bret Cahill
Guest
It has two magneto / alternators, one for the ignition and the other
for running lights/charge up a battery.
It's a simple low tension magneto ignition system and the shop
probably confused it with an "energy transfer" ignition which is
slightly different. Either that or they used a coil designed for the
other system (an extra insulator).
Bret Cahill
J
Jasen Betts
Guest
On 2012-05-14, whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:
a double ended coil can spark two cylinders at once, at the time of
firing the other cylinders contains only exhaust gas at low pressure
and so the wasted spark does no harm. no fancy diodes are needed
gasoline doesn't care about the direction of electron flow.
A failed rectifier can cause ignition problems by letting the
battery become depleted.
--
ââ 100% natural
--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to news@netfront.net ---
!
a double ended coil can spark two cylinders at once, at the time of
firing the other cylinders contains only exhaust gas at low pressure
and so the wasted spark does no harm. no fancy diodes are needed
gasoline doesn't care about the direction of electron flow.
A failed rectifier can cause ignition problems by letting the
battery become depleted.
--
ââ 100% natural
--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to news@netfront.net ---
J
Jim Thompson
Guest
On 15 May 2012 11:21:15 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:
I can't remember now which is best ;-) I last designed ignition
systems ~1973.
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice
480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Plugs care about initial spark current flow direction... erosion. But
I can't remember now which is best ;-) I last designed ignition
systems ~1973.
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice
480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat || E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
B
Bret Cahill
Guest
A spark might parasite several watts out of 7000 -- not a bad deal for
an occasional use engine.
The new coil has 2 spark plug wires, one coming out of the top and
bottom so maybe one plug always acts to complete the circuit for the
other plug. That arrangement is shown somewhere, Fig. 45 or Fig 46
below.
http://data.sohc4.net/Tech/HondaMES/HondaMES5.PDF
The first time I saw the engine it was wired up like the "energy
transfer" [primary charge up] system of Fig 48.
I'm not 100% sure, however, the original system wasn't the low tension
magneto [primary discharge] system of Fig. 47 and a shop / previous
owner confused the two systems and wired the point/cap wire to the
same connector as the magneto output by mistake.
The top of the new coil is mounted to the engine by a bolt going
through the center lug and then through a laminated 1 cm^3 cube that
looks like it could be an insulator.
That would explain how the magneto could put out a few volts on an
analog multimeter yet the secondary puts out nothing. The primary
coil never has any way to complete a circuit.
I'll first try moving the point/cap wire to the center lug because it
is easy and harmless.
On the other hand the system would be correctly wired up but since the
original coil was discontinued the new coil could be the problem. The
1 cm^3 cube is in fact an insulator that prevents the primary from
being grounded.
Instead of destroying the "insulator" I'll try running a wire from
ground to the center lug.
I get ball park range resistance readings for the coil, 0.75, 3 and
30,000 ohms between the spark plug wires. By tapping the condenser
with 12 volts DC at 2 - 3 hz the volt meter go up more than tapping w/
o the cap.
I like to try the easy stuff first so I won't worry about the coil and
cap just yet.
There are still other easy problems to be checked, i.e., shorts and
broken wires. For years or decades -- it's supposedly a 1978 -- the
space under the engine cowling was inhabited by mice. The mice
chomped through the cap.point wire and generally made a mess. Maybe
the kill switch is bad and won't open.
Another easy check.
Bret Cahill
I
Ian Field
Guest
"whit3rd" <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8641324.218.1336955874974.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbbok6...
switching diodes - usually the pickup coil flips a bistable to & fro to
drive the LT circuit switching transistors.
Its called the; "wasted spark" system, as each coil has 2 leads - one fires
its cylinder just before TDC, the other fires its cylinder while the valves
are "on the rock".
news:8641324.218.1336955874974.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbbok6...
For an inline 4 with 2 coils, car or motorcycle there's no polarity
switching diodes - usually the pickup coil flips a bistable to & fro to
drive the LT circuit switching transistors.
Its called the; "wasted spark" system, as each coil has 2 leads - one fires
its cylinder just before TDC, the other fires its cylinder while the valves
are "on the rock".
I
Ian Field
Guest
"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:jote7b$jap$1@reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
lot of 2-cyl motorcycles are 0 -180 deg twins.
no fancy diodes are needed
than the side electrode, therefore the centre electrode parts with electrons
more easily.
You can get the spark to jump the gap at a lower voltage if you make the
centre electrode negative.
news:jote7b$jap$1@reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
Only if its a 0 -360 deg twin (pistons go up & down together) - certainly a
lot of 2-cyl motorcycles are 0 -180 deg twins.
no fancy diodes are needed
Actually polarity does make a difference - the centre electrode runs hotter
than the side electrode, therefore the centre electrode parts with electrons
more easily.
You can get the spark to jump the gap at a lower voltage if you make the
centre electrode negative.
I
Ian Field
Guest
"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
message news:la35r7lifphjimq8dbj1fb86mje8tomrk8@4ax.com...
If you knew your basic theory the answer and the reason behind it would be
glaringly obvious.
message news:la35r7lifphjimq8dbj1fb86mje8tomrk8@4ax.com...
If you knew your basic theory the answer and the reason behind it would be
glaringly obvious.
I
Ian Field
Guest
"Bret Cahill" <BretCahill@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:91ee61f4-25f5-4120-b93f-05521b993a8a@b1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
for running lights/charge up a battery.
It's a simple low tension magneto ignition system and the shop
probably confused it with an "energy transfer" ignition which is
slightly different. Either that or they used a coil designed for the
other system (an extra insulator).
Bret Cahill
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
What leads does the original coil have?
news:91ee61f4-25f5-4120-b93f-05521b993a8a@b1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
It has two magneto / alternators, one for the ignition and the other
for running lights/charge up a battery.
It's a simple low tension magneto ignition system and the shop
probably confused it with an "energy transfer" ignition which is
slightly different. Either that or they used a coil designed for the
other system (an extra insulator).
Bret Cahill
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
What leads does the original coil have?
B
Bret Cahill
Guest
Actually it _is_ an "energy transfer" -- on of the dumbest names of
all time -- system and they had the wiring correct.
The problem was the kill switch. They ignored that and instead
swapped out the good old discontinued coil which steps up 3 - 4 orders
of magnitude for a CDI coil which only needs to step up 2 orders of
magnitude.
The new coil puts out a spark but not enough to get anything on fire.
Is it common to rig two ignition coils together to get higher voltage?
They seem to have CDI conversion kits in motorcycles but not
outboards.
Bret Cahill