Whole house surge suppressors

F

Flea Ridden

Guest
This is a most informative article, and it echoes what w_tom says:
http://www.ecmweb.com/mag/electric_hit_grounding_home/

So when I call an arbitrary electrician to ask for a grounding survey,
how do I know he's telling me the truth?

Do I have to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars to purchase a ground
tester?

This is for a single family home that I have lived in for about 7 years,
and will probably continue to live in for about 7 more years.


Since I'm having electrical work done, I would also like something like
this: http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_3108400 installed
at my breaker box; it would be nice if it could break down it's info by
each breaker; and it would also be nice if it could tell me how much
current is flowing through my ground connection.


Here are random URLs of info:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=0ap7ov4as6j8rj82pd3nv4fhl27dc2adm0%404ax.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26selm%3D0ap7ov4as6j8rj82pd3nv4fhl27dc2adm0%25404ax.com

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=3F0A5E47.FF0175D2%40hotmail.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fnum%3D100%26hl%3Den%26lr%3Dlang_en%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26scoring%3Dd%26as_drrb%3Db%26q%3D%2Bfranklin%2Bgroup%253Aalt.certification.a-plus%2Bauthor%253Aw_tom%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch%26as_mind%3D12%26as_minm%3D5%26as_miny%3D2002%26as_maxd%3D25%26as_maxm%3D8%26as_maxy%3D2003

http://amasci.com/amateur/whygnd.html
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=3c0bf1a2%241%40news.alcatel.com&rnum=3&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dground%2Bneutral%2Bhot%26ie%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=8gdgt7%24esp%241%40news.efn.org&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dground%2Bneutral%2Bhot%26ie%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=rLpu0fAF53T6EwcJ%40lineone.net&rnum=8&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dground%2Bneutral%2Bhot%26ie%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=w5nsc.34575%24zw.8611%40attbi_s01&rnum=20&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dground%2Bneutral%2Bhot%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26start%3D10%26sa%3DN

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=U%25046.32481%24bw.2026859%40news.flash.net&rnum=26&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dground%2Bneutral%2Bhot%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26start%3D20%26sa%3DN




Here is a summary of models I have found, and some anecdotes from
Usenet:

MODEL: Panamax Primax
RESELLER: SmartHome.com http://www.smarthome.com/4839.html
JOULES: 2700
AMPS: 60,000
CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240 1 Phase, 50/60 Hz
RESPONSE TIME: 8x20 microseconds
PRICE: $119.99
WARRANTY: the manufacturer provides a 3-year Connected Major Appliance
Protection Policy up to $10,000 for the repair or replacement of major
household appliances (refrigerator, freezer, oven, range, washer, dryer,
ceiling fan or dishwasher) and a 5-year product warranty.
URLS:
- Press Release:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=panamax+surge&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&selm=01bd5cec%24605a2680%2477003dce%40oemcomputer&rnum=3

- Negative Experiences:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=panamax+surge&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&selm=7nsc8t%24fo1%241%40nnrp1.deja.com&rnum=4

- More Negative Experiences:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&threadm=01bcf42f%24f7de1be0%240100007f%40blyle&rnum=8&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26edition%3Dus%26q%3Dpanamax%2Bsurge%26btnG%3DSearch

MODEL: Leviton 51120-1
RESELLER: SmartHome.com http://www.smarthome.com/4860.html
JOULES: 950
AMPS: 50,000
CIRCUIT TYPE:
RESPONSE TIME: "Instantaneous"
PRICE: $189.99
WARRANTY:
URLS:
- Positive Comment:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&threadm=tia8dac62nojbf%40corp.supernews.com&rnum=4&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dleviton%2Bsurge%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26edition%3Dus%26selm%3Dtia8dac62nojbf%2540corp.supernews.com%26rnum%3D4

- Negative Comment:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=leviton+surge&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&selm=4026686F.E9CD70A%40hotmail.com&rnum=3

- Positive Comment:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=51120+leviton&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=37864104.3D18F1FD%40ibm.net&rnum=2

MODEL: Panamax gpp8005
RESELLER: PowerSystemsDIRECT
http://www.powersystemsdirect.com/Panamax/Service_Entrance_Protector_Whole_House_Surge_Primax_gpp8005_55.php

JOULES: 2,700
AMPS: 60,000
CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240 1 Phase 50/60Hz
RESPONSE TIME:
PRICE: $99.99
WARRANTY: Connected Equipment Policy Length 3 Years; Connected
Equipment Policy Amount $10,000; Lightning Protection Yes
URLS:
Model description:

MODEL: Intermatic IG1240RC
RESELLER: SmartHomeUSA.com
http://www.smarthomeusa.com/Shop/Lighting/Surge-Suppressors/Item/IG1240RC/

JOULES: 1,200
AMPS: 48,000
CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240V 60Hz
RESPONSE TIME: Less than 5 nanoseconds
PRICE: $69.95
WARRANTY: $10,000 warrantee
URLS:
- Positive:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&threadm=7ukvpr%24dja%241%40news.mks.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dpanamax%2Bprimax%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26edition%3Dus%26selm%3D7ukvpr%2524dja%25241%2540news.mks.com%26rnum%3D2

- Positive:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&threadm=dschneid.367.000B7827%40nicmad.nicolet.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26edition%3Dus%26q%3Dintermatic%26btnG%3DSearch

- Positive:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=intermatic&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&selm=37FC7F0A.37E63B3A%40nni.com&rnum=3

- Informational:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=intermatic+surge&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&selm=bdagtd%24paf%40acadia.ee.vill.edu&rnum=2

MODEL: Intermatic PanelGuard IG1300-4T-2C, protects (?) phone-lines and
cable lines too
RESELLER:
JOULES:
AMPS: 48,000
CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240 single (split) phase, 4 telephone lines, and 2
coax cable lines; ALL MODE PROTECTION (L1-N, L2-N, L1-G, L2-G, N-G,
L1-L2); 150 Volt MOVs (Metal Oxide Varistors) [AC Protection]; 350 Volt
Gas Tube [Telephone Protection]; 90 Volt Gas Tube [Coax Cable /
Satellite Protection]
RESPONSE TIME:
PRICE: IG1300-2T is $152.83 at
http://www.aplussupply.com/intermatic/pg5000/ig1240.htm
WARRANTY: $10,000, 5 year warranty
URLS:
- Non-negative:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=38e3ov8gs057mmtgpgq3loqfodtq1odneq%404ax.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3DIG-1300%26ie%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch

- Positive:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=bdc56s%24q5q%40acadia.ee.vill.edu&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3DIG-1300%26ie%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch

MODEL: Ditek DTK-WH8 Whole House Kit
RESELLER: StayOnline
http://www.stayonline.com/panel_surge_protectors/3233.asp
JOULES: 1050
AMPS: 125,000
CIRCUIT TYPE: 120 / 240 Split Phase ; Suppressed Voltage Rating: 700V
(L-L), 400V (L-G, L-N, N-G)
RESPONSE TIME: Less than 5 nanosecond
PRICE: $149
WARRANTY:
URLS:

MODEL: PolyPhaser IS-PM120-SP
RESELLER: PolyPhaser.com
JOULES:
AMPS: 40,000
CIRCUIT TYPE: 120Vac, 1 Phase, 2 Wires & GND
RESPONSE TIME: ?? Turn-On Time: 25ns ??
PRICE:
WARRANTY:
URLS:
- Positive:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=leviton+surge&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&selm=4026686F.E9CD70A%40hotmail.com&rnum=3
 
Reality check here....I don't care what surge protection you use, if
lightning hits your stuff its fried.

--
Mark
MCSA, CNA, A+, Net+, iNet+, Server+
"Flea Ridden" <flea@flea.ridden> wrote in message
news:40E977E8.D57B6A19@flea.ridden...
This is a most informative article, and it echoes what w_tom says:
http://www.ecmweb.com/mag/electric_hit_grounding_home/

So when I call an arbitrary electrician to ask for a grounding survey,
how do I know he's telling me the truth?

Do I have to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars to purchase a ground
tester?

This is for a single family home that I have lived in for about 7 years,
and will probably continue to live in for about 7 more years.


Since I'm having electrical work done, I would also like something like
this: http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_3108400 installed
at my breaker box; it would be nice if it could break down it's info by
each breaker; and it would also be nice if it could tell me how much
current is flowing through my ground connection.


Here are random URLs of info:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=0ap7ov4as6j8rj82pd3nv4fhl27dc2adm0%404ax.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26selm%3D0ap7ov4as6j8rj82pd3nv4fhl27dc2adm0%25404ax.com


http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=3F0A5E47.FF0175D2%40hotmail.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fnum%3D100%26hl%3Den%26lr%3Dlang_en%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26scoring%3Dd%26as_drrb%3Db%26q%3D%2Bfranklin%2Bgroup%253Aalt.certification.a-plus%2Bauthor%253Aw_tom%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch%26as_mind%3D12%26as_minm%3D5%26as_miny%3D2002%26as_maxd%3D25%26as_maxm%3D8%26as_maxy%3D2003

http://amasci.com/amateur/whygnd.html

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=3c0bf1a2%241%40news.alcatel.com&rnum=3&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dground%2Bneutral%2Bhot%26ie%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch


http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=8gdgt7%24esp%241%40news.efn.org&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dground%2Bneutral%2Bhot%26ie%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch


http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=rLpu0fAF53T6EwcJ%40lineone.net&rnum=8&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dground%2Bneutral%2Bhot%26ie%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch


http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=w5nsc.34575%24zw.8611%40attbi_s01&rnum=20&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dground%2Bneutral%2Bhot%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26start%3D10%26sa%3DN


http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=U%25046.32481%24bw.2026859%40news.flash.net&rnum=26&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dground%2Bneutral%2Bhot%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26start%3D20%26sa%3DN




Here is a summary of models I have found, and some anecdotes from
Usenet:

MODEL: Panamax Primax
RESELLER: SmartHome.com http://www.smarthome.com/4839.html
JOULES: 2700
AMPS: 60,000
CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240 1 Phase, 50/60 Hz
RESPONSE TIME: 8x20 microseconds
PRICE: $119.99
WARRANTY: the manufacturer provides a 3-year Connected Major Appliance
Protection Policy up to $10,000 for the repair or replacement of major
household appliances (refrigerator, freezer, oven, range, washer, dryer,
ceiling fan or dishwasher) and a 5-year product warranty.
URLS:
- Press Release:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=panamax+surge&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&selm=01bd5cec%24605a2680%2477003dce%40oemcomputer&rnum=3

- Negative Experiences:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=panamax+surge&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&selm=7nsc8t%24fo1%241%40nnrp1.deja.com&rnum=4

- More Negative Experiences:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&threadm=01bcf42f%24f7de1be0%240100007f%40blyle&rnum=8&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26edition%3Dus%26q%3Dpanamax%2Bsurge%26btnG%3DSearch

MODEL: Leviton 51120-1
RESELLER: SmartHome.com http://www.smarthome.com/4860.html
JOULES: 950
AMPS: 50,000
CIRCUIT TYPE:
RESPONSE TIME: "Instantaneous"
PRICE: $189.99
WARRANTY:
URLS:
- Positive Comment:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&threadm=tia8dac62nojbf%40corp.supernews.com&rnum=4&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dleviton%2Bsurge%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26edition%3Dus%26selm%3Dtia8dac62nojbf%2540corp.supernews.com%26rnum%3D4

- Negative Comment:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=leviton+surge&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&selm=4026686F.E9CD70A%40hotmail.com&rnum=3

- Positive Comment:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=51120+leviton&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=37864104.3D18F1FD%40ibm.net&rnum=2

MODEL: Panamax gpp8005
RESELLER: PowerSystemsDIRECT

http://www.powersystemsdirect.com/Panamax/Service_Entrance_Protector_Whole_House_Surge_Primax_gpp8005_55.php

JOULES: 2,700
AMPS: 60,000
CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240 1 Phase 50/60Hz
RESPONSE TIME:
PRICE: $99.99
WARRANTY: Connected Equipment Policy Length 3 Years; Connected
Equipment Policy Amount $10,000; Lightning Protection Yes
URLS:
Model description:

MODEL: Intermatic IG1240RC
RESELLER: SmartHomeUSA.com
http://www.smarthomeusa.com/Shop/Lighting/Surge-Suppressors/Item/IG1240RC/

JOULES: 1,200
AMPS: 48,000
CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240V 60Hz
RESPONSE TIME: Less than 5 nanoseconds
PRICE: $69.95
WARRANTY: $10,000 warrantee
URLS:
- Positive:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&threadm=7ukvpr%24dja%241%40news.mks.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dpanamax%2Bprimax%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26edition%3Dus%26selm%3D7ukvpr%2524dja%25241%2540news.mks.com%26rnum%3D2

- Positive:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&threadm=dschneid.367.000B7827%40nicmad.nicolet.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26edition%3Dus%26q%3Dintermatic%26btnG%3DSearch

- Positive:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=intermatic&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&selm=37FC7F0A.37E63B3A%40nni.com&rnum=3

- Informational:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=intermatic+surge&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&selm=bdagtd%24paf%40acadia.ee.vill.edu&rnum=2

MODEL: Intermatic PanelGuard IG1300-4T-2C, protects (?) phone-lines and
cable lines too
RESELLER:
JOULES:
AMPS: 48,000
CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240 single (split) phase, 4 telephone lines, and 2
coax cable lines; ALL MODE PROTECTION (L1-N, L2-N, L1-G, L2-G, N-G,
L1-L2); 150 Volt MOVs (Metal Oxide Varistors) [AC Protection]; 350 Volt
Gas Tube [Telephone Protection]; 90 Volt Gas Tube [Coax Cable /
Satellite Protection]
RESPONSE TIME:
PRICE: IG1300-2T is $152.83 at
http://www.aplussupply.com/intermatic/pg5000/ig1240.htm
WARRANTY: $10,000, 5 year warranty
URLS:
- Non-negative:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=38e3ov8gs057mmtgpgq3loqfodtq1odneq%404ax.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3DIG-1300%26ie%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch

- Positive:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=bdc56s%24q5q%40acadia.ee.vill.edu&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3DIG-1300%26ie%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch

MODEL: Ditek DTK-WH8 Whole House Kit
RESELLER: StayOnline
http://www.stayonline.com/panel_surge_protectors/3233.asp
JOULES: 1050
AMPS: 125,000
CIRCUIT TYPE: 120 / 240 Split Phase ; Suppressed Voltage Rating: 700V
(L-L), 400V (L-G, L-N, N-G)
RESPONSE TIME: Less than 5 nanosecond
PRICE: $149
WARRANTY:
URLS:

MODEL: PolyPhaser IS-PM120-SP
RESELLER: PolyPhaser.com
JOULES:
AMPS: 40,000
CIRCUIT TYPE: 120Vac, 1 Phase, 2 Wires & GND
RESPONSE TIME: ?? Turn-On Time: 25ns ??
PRICE:
WARRANTY:
URLS:
- Positive:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=leviton+surge&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&selm=4026686F.E9CD70A%40hotmail.com&rnum=3
Click to expand...
 
Call the local electric utility, where I live, they'll put one in and charge
you $6.00 per month. Anything gets fried by lightning, they'll pay for it.

"Flea Ridden" <flea@flea.ridden> wrote in message
news:40E977E8.D57B6A19@flea.ridden...
This is a most informative article, and it echoes what w_tom says:
http://www.ecmweb.com/mag/electric_hit_grounding_home/

So when I call an arbitrary electrician to ask for a grounding survey,
how do I know he's telling me the truth?

Do I have to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars to purchase a ground
tester?

This is for a single family home that I have lived in for about 7 years,
and will probably continue to live in for about 7 more years.


Since I'm having electrical work done, I would also like something like
this: http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_3108400 installed
at my breaker box; it would be nice if it could break down it's info by
each breaker; and it would also be nice if it could tell me how much
current is flowing through my ground connection.


Here are random URLs of info:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=0ap7ov4as6j8rj82pd3nv4fhl27dc2adm0%404ax.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26selm%3D0ap7ov4as6j8rj82pd3nv4fhl27dc2adm0%25404ax.com


http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=3F0A5E47.FF0175D2%40hotmail.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fnum%3D100%26hl%3Den%26lr%3Dlang_en%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26scoring%3Dd%26as_drrb%3Db%26q%3D%2Bfranklin%2Bgroup%253Aalt.certification.a-plus%2Bauthor%253Aw_tom%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch%26as_mind%3D12%26as_minm%3D5%26as_miny%3D2002%26as_maxd%3D25%26as_maxm%3D8%26as_maxy%3D2003

http://amasci.com/amateur/whygnd.html

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=3c0bf1a2%241%40news.alcatel.com&rnum=3&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dground%2Bneutral%2Bhot%26ie%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch


http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=8gdgt7%24esp%241%40news.efn.org&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dground%2Bneutral%2Bhot%26ie%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch


http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=rLpu0fAF53T6EwcJ%40lineone.net&rnum=8&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dground%2Bneutral%2Bhot%26ie%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch


http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=w5nsc.34575%24zw.8611%40attbi_s01&rnum=20&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dground%2Bneutral%2Bhot%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26start%3D10%26sa%3DN


http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=U%25046.32481%24bw.2026859%40news.flash.net&rnum=26&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dground%2Bneutral%2Bhot%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26start%3D20%26sa%3DN




Here is a summary of models I have found, and some anecdotes from
Usenet:

MODEL: Panamax Primax
RESELLER: SmartHome.com http://www.smarthome.com/4839.html
JOULES: 2700
AMPS: 60,000
CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240 1 Phase, 50/60 Hz
RESPONSE TIME: 8x20 microseconds
PRICE: $119.99
WARRANTY: the manufacturer provides a 3-year Connected Major Appliance
Protection Policy up to $10,000 for the repair or replacement of major
household appliances (refrigerator, freezer, oven, range, washer, dryer,
ceiling fan or dishwasher) and a 5-year product warranty.
URLS:
- Press Release:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=panamax+surge&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&selm=01bd5cec%24605a2680%2477003dce%40oemcomputer&rnum=3

- Negative Experiences:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=panamax+surge&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&selm=7nsc8t%24fo1%241%40nnrp1.deja.com&rnum=4

- More Negative Experiences:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&threadm=01bcf42f%24f7de1be0%240100007f%40blyle&rnum=8&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26edition%3Dus%26q%3Dpanamax%2Bsurge%26btnG%3DSearch

MODEL: Leviton 51120-1
RESELLER: SmartHome.com http://www.smarthome.com/4860.html
JOULES: 950
AMPS: 50,000
CIRCUIT TYPE:
RESPONSE TIME: "Instantaneous"
PRICE: $189.99
WARRANTY:
URLS:
- Positive Comment:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&threadm=tia8dac62nojbf%40corp.supernews.com&rnum=4&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dleviton%2Bsurge%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26edition%3Dus%26selm%3Dtia8dac62nojbf%2540corp.supernews.com%26rnum%3D4

- Negative Comment:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=leviton+surge&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&selm=4026686F.E9CD70A%40hotmail.com&rnum=3

- Positive Comment:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=51120+leviton&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=37864104.3D18F1FD%40ibm.net&rnum=2

MODEL: Panamax gpp8005
RESELLER: PowerSystemsDIRECT

http://www.powersystemsdirect.com/Panamax/Service_Entrance_Protector_Whole_House_Surge_Primax_gpp8005_55.php

JOULES: 2,700
AMPS: 60,000
CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240 1 Phase 50/60Hz
RESPONSE TIME:
PRICE: $99.99
WARRANTY: Connected Equipment Policy Length 3 Years; Connected
Equipment Policy Amount $10,000; Lightning Protection Yes
URLS:
Model description:

MODEL: Intermatic IG1240RC
RESELLER: SmartHomeUSA.com
http://www.smarthomeusa.com/Shop/Lighting/Surge-Suppressors/Item/IG1240RC/

JOULES: 1,200
AMPS: 48,000
CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240V 60Hz
RESPONSE TIME: Less than 5 nanoseconds
PRICE: $69.95
WARRANTY: $10,000 warrantee
URLS:
- Positive:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&threadm=7ukvpr%24dja%241%40news.mks.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dpanamax%2Bprimax%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26edition%3Dus%26selm%3D7ukvpr%2524dja%25241%2540news.mks.com%26rnum%3D2

- Positive:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&threadm=dschneid.367.000B7827%40nicmad.nicolet.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26edition%3Dus%26q%3Dintermatic%26btnG%3DSearch

- Positive:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=intermatic&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&selm=37FC7F0A.37E63B3A%40nni.com&rnum=3

- Informational:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=intermatic+surge&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&selm=bdagtd%24paf%40acadia.ee.vill.edu&rnum=2

MODEL: Intermatic PanelGuard IG1300-4T-2C, protects (?) phone-lines and
cable lines too
RESELLER:
JOULES:
AMPS: 48,000
CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240 single (split) phase, 4 telephone lines, and 2
coax cable lines; ALL MODE PROTECTION (L1-N, L2-N, L1-G, L2-G, N-G,
L1-L2); 150 Volt MOVs (Metal Oxide Varistors) [AC Protection]; 350 Volt
Gas Tube [Telephone Protection]; 90 Volt Gas Tube [Coax Cable /
Satellite Protection]
RESPONSE TIME:
PRICE: IG1300-2T is $152.83 at
http://www.aplussupply.com/intermatic/pg5000/ig1240.htm
WARRANTY: $10,000, 5 year warranty
URLS:
- Non-negative:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=38e3ov8gs057mmtgpgq3loqfodtq1odneq%404ax.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3DIG-1300%26ie%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch

- Positive:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=bdc56s%24q5q%40acadia.ee.vill.edu&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3DIG-1300%26ie%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch

MODEL: Ditek DTK-WH8 Whole House Kit
RESELLER: StayOnline
http://www.stayonline.com/panel_surge_protectors/3233.asp
JOULES: 1050
AMPS: 125,000
CIRCUIT TYPE: 120 / 240 Split Phase ; Suppressed Voltage Rating: 700V
(L-L), 400V (L-G, L-N, N-G)
RESPONSE TIME: Less than 5 nanosecond
PRICE: $149
WARRANTY:
URLS:

MODEL: PolyPhaser IS-PM120-SP
RESELLER: PolyPhaser.com
JOULES:
AMPS: 40,000
CIRCUIT TYPE: 120Vac, 1 Phase, 2 Wires & GND
RESPONSE TIME: ?? Turn-On Time: 25ns ??
PRICE:
WARRANTY:
URLS:
- Positive:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=leviton+surge&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&selm=4026686F.E9CD70A%40hotmail.com&rnum=3
Click to expand...
 
"Flea Ridden" <flea@flea.ridden> wrote in message
news:40E977E8.D57B6A19@flea.ridden...
This is a most informative article, and it echoes what w_tom says:
http://www.ecmweb.com/mag/electric_hit_grounding_home/

So when I call an arbitrary electrician to ask for a grounding survey,
how do I know he's telling me the truth?

Do I have to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars to purchase a ground
tester?

This is for a single family home that I have lived in for about 7 years,
and will probably continue to live in for about 7 more years.


Since I'm having electrical work done, I would also like something like
this: http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_3108400 installed
at my breaker box; it would be nice if it could break down it's info by
each breaker; and it would also be nice if it could tell me how much
current is flowing through my ground connection.

drivel snipped
Click to expand...

If your trying to protect from lightning then you need a lightning
protection system. try UL-96A for the specs. Every system I installed helped
a little when the strike came. Nothing is guaranteed protection for
lightning way to many variables.

IEEE has standards for surge protection, they come in 3 categories.
Distribution, service and point of use. You need 2 out of 3 to have decent
protection. Since distribution is handled by the serving utility we now have
two to work with.
There are 2 basic types of surge protection devices, MOV's and the rest.
MOV's are tested once. So they will do their job once, a second hit,,, who
knows.

Grounding and installation are the most important. The average Joe
electrician is not going to have an ground tester. Are you planning a 3
point or 4 point test? I used to use 3 point a lot, also called fall of
potential. 4 point I used for measuring the soil resistively for
installation of ground systems. Then there are the clamp on ground testers
which can do the job with out shutting down the electrical service for a
test.
http://www.electricitymetering.com/category/detail.scd-pscdrv230100276-selectedzq111zq2scdrv230100401-selectedzq111zq2scdfa-230100401-selectProduct-idzq3258zq4category_idzq379zq1true .
The most important thing here is the guy running the meter. It takes a fair
amount of experience to understand what the readings mean. Try to achieve
less than 5 ohms during your driest times. You can always add more ground
rods to the electrical service to get the readings lower. I once had to add
2-40' long chemical ground rods to a service to get it to 2 ohms. These must
be installed per the local and national codes.

The wires should be short as possible for connecting your surge arrestor. CH
and other manufactures make units that connect to the buss for services. SQD
has one for the homeline panel that plugs in like a breaker. The most
important part is to have the let through at the service arrestor be below
the threshold of the point of use arrestor.
You can put that warranty crap in you peace pipe and smoke it. I used to
work for an OEM and they NEVER paid a single claim in 8 years for arrestors.
You will never be able to prove the unit ever failed to work. Make the best
choices you can and hope for the best.
 
Perhaps true, but not very useful as advice (kind of like saying I don't
care how well you take care of your health, if you're hit by a bus, that's
it!).


"Mark" <mschal@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:VY-dncbRrPn74nTdRVn-vg@adelphia.com...
Reality check here....I don't care what surge protection you use, if
lightning hits your stuff its fried.

--
Mark
MCSA, CNA, A+, Net+, iNet+, Server+
"Flea Ridden" <flea@flea.ridden> wrote in message
news:40E977E8.D57B6A19@flea.ridden...
This is a most informative article, and it echoes what w_tom says:
http://www.ecmweb.com/mag/electric_hit_grounding_home/

So when I call an arbitrary electrician to ask for a grounding survey,
how do I know he's telling me the truth?

Do I have to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars to purchase a ground
tester?

This is for a single family home that I have lived in for about 7 years,
and will probably continue to live in for about 7 more years.


Since I'm having electrical work done, I would also like something like
this: http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_3108400 installed
at my breaker box; it would be nice if it could break down it's info by
each breaker; and it would also be nice if it could tell me how much
current is flowing through my ground connection.


Here are random URLs of info:


http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=0ap7ov4as6j8rj82pd3nv4fhl27dc2adm0%404ax.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26selm%3D0ap7ov4as6j8rj82pd3nv4fhl27dc2adm0%25404ax.com



http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=3F0A5E47.FF0175D2%40hotmail.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fnum%3D100%26hl%3Den%26l
Click to expand...
r%3Dlang_en%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26scoring%3Dd%26as_drrb%3Db%26q%3D%2Bf
ranklin%2Bgroup%253Aalt.certification.a-plus%2Bauthor%253Aw_tom%26btnG%3DGoo
gle%2BSearch%26as_mind%3D12%26as_minm%3D5%26as_miny%3D2002%26as_maxd%3D25%26
as_maxm%3D8%26as_maxy%3D2003
http://amasci.com/amateur/whygnd.html


http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=3c0bf1a2%241%40news.alcatel.com&rnum=3&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dground%2Bneutral%2Bhot%26ie%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch



http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=8gdgt7%24esp%241%40news.efn.org&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dground%2Bneutral%2Bhot%26ie%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch



http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=rLpu0fAF53T6EwcJ%40lineone.net&rnum=8&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dground%2Bneutral%2Bhot%26ie%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch



http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=w5nsc.34575%24zw.8611%40attbi_s01&rnum=20&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dground%2Bneutral%2Bhot%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26start%3D10%26sa%3DN



http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=U%25046.32481%24bw.2026859%40news.flash.net&rnum=26&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dground%2Bneutral%2Bhot%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26start%3D20%26sa%3DN




Here is a summary of models I have found, and some anecdotes from
Usenet:

MODEL: Panamax Primax
RESELLER: SmartHome.com http://www.smarthome.com/4839.html
JOULES: 2700
AMPS: 60,000
CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240 1 Phase, 50/60 Hz
RESPONSE TIME: 8x20 microseconds
PRICE: $119.99
WARRANTY: the manufacturer provides a 3-year Connected Major Appliance
Protection Policy up to $10,000 for the repair or replacement of major
household appliances (refrigerator, freezer, oven, range, washer, dryer,
ceiling fan or dishwasher) and a 5-year product warranty.
URLS:
- Press Release:


http://groups.google.com/groups?q=panamax+surge&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&selm=01bd5cec%24605a2680%2477003dce%40oemcomputer&rnum=3

- Negative Experiences:


http://groups.google.com/groups?q=panamax+surge&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&selm=7nsc8t%24fo1%241%40nnrp1.deja.com&rnum=4

- More Negative Experiences:


http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&threadm=01bcf42f%24f7de1be0%240100007f%40blyle&rnum=8&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26edition%3Dus%26q%3Dpanamax%2Bsurge%26btnG%3DSearch

MODEL: Leviton 51120-1
RESELLER: SmartHome.com http://www.smarthome.com/4860.html
JOULES: 950
AMPS: 50,000
CIRCUIT TYPE:
RESPONSE TIME: "Instantaneous"
PRICE: $189.99
WARRANTY:
URLS:
- Positive Comment:


http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&threadm=tia8dac62nojbf%40corp.supernews.com&rnum=4&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dleviton%2Bsurge%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26edition%3Dus%26selm%3Dtia8dac62nojbf%2540corp.supernews.com%26rnum%3D4

- Negative Comment:


http://groups.google.com/groups?q=leviton+surge&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&selm=4026686F.E9CD70A%40hotmail.com&rnum=3

- Positive Comment:


http://groups.google.com/groups?q=51120+leviton&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=37864104.3D18F1FD%40ibm.net&rnum=2

MODEL: Panamax gpp8005
RESELLER: PowerSystemsDIRECT


http://www.powersystemsdirect.com/Panamax/Service_Entrance_Protector_Whole_House_Surge_Primax_gpp8005_55.php

JOULES: 2,700
AMPS: 60,000
CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240 1 Phase 50/60Hz
RESPONSE TIME:
PRICE: $99.99
WARRANTY: Connected Equipment Policy Length 3 Years; Connected
Equipment Policy Amount $10,000; Lightning Protection Yes
URLS:
Model description:

MODEL: Intermatic IG1240RC
RESELLER: SmartHomeUSA.com

http://www.smarthomeusa.com/Shop/Lighting/Surge-Suppressors/Item/IG1240RC/

JOULES: 1,200
AMPS: 48,000
CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240V 60Hz
RESPONSE TIME: Less than 5 nanoseconds
PRICE: $69.95
WARRANTY: $10,000 warrantee
URLS:
- Positive:


http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&threadm=7ukvpr%24dja%241%40news.mks.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dpanamax%2Bprimax%26hl%3D
Click to expand...
en%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26edition%3Dus%26selm%3D7ukvpr%2524dja%25241%2540new
s.mks.com%26rnum%3D2
- Positive:


http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&threadm=dschneid.367.000B7827%40nicmad.nicolet.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26edition%3Dus%26q%3Dintermatic%26btnG%3DSearch

- Positive:


http://groups.google.com/groups?q=intermatic&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&selm=37FC7F0A.37E63B3A%40nni.com&rnum=3

- Informational:


http://groups.google.com/groups?q=intermatic+surge&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&selm=bdagtd%24paf%40acadia.ee.vill.edu&rnum=2

MODEL: Intermatic PanelGuard IG1300-4T-2C, protects (?) phone-lines and
cable lines too
RESELLER:
JOULES:
AMPS: 48,000
CIRCUIT TYPE: 120/240 single (split) phase, 4 telephone lines, and 2
coax cable lines; ALL MODE PROTECTION (L1-N, L2-N, L1-G, L2-G, N-G,
L1-L2); 150 Volt MOVs (Metal Oxide Varistors) [AC Protection]; 350 Volt
Gas Tube [Telephone Protection]; 90 Volt Gas Tube [Coax Cable /
Satellite Protection]
RESPONSE TIME:
PRICE: IG1300-2T is $152.83 at
http://www.aplussupply.com/intermatic/pg5000/ig1240.htm
WARRANTY: $10,000, 5 year warranty
URLS:
- Non-negative:


http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=38e3ov8gs057mmtgpgq3loqfodtq1odneq%404ax.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3DIG-1300%26ie%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch

- Positive:


http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=bdc56s%24q5q%40acadia.ee.vill.edu&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3DIG-1300%26ie%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch

MODEL: Ditek DTK-WH8 Whole House Kit
RESELLER: StayOnline
http://www.stayonline.com/panel_surge_protectors/3233.asp
JOULES: 1050
AMPS: 125,000
CIRCUIT TYPE: 120 / 240 Split Phase ; Suppressed Voltage Rating: 700V
(L-L), 400V (L-G, L-N, N-G)
RESPONSE TIME: Less than 5 nanosecond
PRICE: $149
WARRANTY:
URLS:

MODEL: PolyPhaser IS-PM120-SP
RESELLER: PolyPhaser.com
JOULES:
AMPS: 40,000
CIRCUIT TYPE: 120Vac, 1 Phase, 2 Wires & GND
RESPONSE TIME: ?? Turn-On Time: 25ns ??
PRICE:
WARRANTY:
URLS:
- Positive:


http://groups.google.com/groups?q=leviton+surge&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&selm=4026686F.E9CD70A%40hotmail.com&rnum=3
Click to expand...
 
IEEE has standards for surge protection, they come in 3 categories.
Distribution, service and point of use. You need 2 out of 3 to have decent
protection. Since distribution is handled by the serving utility we now have
two to work with.
There are 2 basic types of surge protection devices, MOV's and the rest.
MOV's are tested once. So they will do their job once, a second hit,,, who
knows.
Click to expand...
Can you chain MOV's to defeat second spikes?

Grounding and installation are the most important. The average Joe
electrician is not going to have an ground tester. Are you planning a 3
point or 4 point test? I used to use 3 point a lot, also called fall of
potential. 4 point I used for measuring the soil resistively for
installation of ground systems. Then there are the clamp on ground testers
which can do the job with out shutting down the electrical service for a
test.
Click to expand...
If you have this much time and money, why not put a lightning rod on the
roof?

Michael
 
on Monday 05 July 2004 10:18 am, SQLit wrote:

"Flea Ridden" <flea@flea.ridden> wrote in message
news:40E977E8.D57B6A19@flea.ridden...
This is a most informative article, and it echoes what w_tom says:
http://www.ecmweb.com/mag/electric_hit_grounding_home/

So when I call an arbitrary electrician to ask for a grounding survey,
how do I know he's telling me the truth?
. The most important thing here is the guy running the meter. It takes a
fair
amount of experience to understand what the readings mean. Try to achieve
less than 5 ohms during your driest times. You can always add more ground
rods to the electrical service to get the readings lower. I once had to
add 2-40' long chemical ground rods to a service to get it to 2 ohms.
These must be installed per the local and national codes.
Click to expand...
For some reason, this reminds me of an article I read in I think Popular
Electronics last millennium, about making a ground rod, arbitrarily
deep, with copper pipe and your garden hose. You solder a hose fitting
on one end of the pipe, and attach the hose. Stand it up with the
open end on the ground, and turn the water on. The water coming out
the pipe digs through the dirt, and unless there's big rocks, it
supposedly goes in pretty easily. And they said, if 10' isn't enough,
you can just solder another pipe on top of that one, move the hose
fitting, and continue, etc.

Anybody ever actually done that, or heard of it being done?
--
Cheers!
Rich
 
On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 21:42:55 GMT, Rich Grise put forth the notion
that...


on Monday 05 July 2004 10:18 am, SQLit wrote:


"Flea Ridden" <flea@flea.ridden> wrote in message
news:40E977E8.D57B6A19@flea.ridden...
This is a most informative article, and it echoes what w_tom says:
http://www.ecmweb.com/mag/electric_hit_grounding_home/

So when I call an arbitrary electrician to ask for a grounding survey,
how do I know he's telling me the truth?
. The most important thing here is the guy running the meter. It takes a
fair
amount of experience to understand what the readings mean. Try to achieve
less than 5 ohms during your driest times. You can always add more ground
rods to the electrical service to get the readings lower. I once had to
add 2-40' long chemical ground rods to a service to get it to 2 ohms.
These must be installed per the local and national codes.

For some reason, this reminds me of an article I read in I think Popular
Electronics last millennium, about making a ground rod, arbitrarily
deep, with copper pipe and your garden hose. You solder a hose fitting
on one end of the pipe, and attach the hose. Stand it up with the
open end on the ground, and turn the water on. The water coming out
the pipe digs through the dirt, and unless there's big rocks, it
supposedly goes in pretty easily. And they said, if 10' isn't enough,
you can just solder another pipe on top of that one, move the hose
fitting, and continue, etc.

Anybody ever actually done that, or heard of it being done?
Click to expand...
It works, as long as you don't hit any big rocks. I don't know of many
places where you wouldn't hit a rock sooner or later. I used to drive
regular ground rods with a Makita demolition hammer. Just take the bit
out, and set the hammer onto the end of the ground rod... it's amazing
how fast it'll go in, and it doesn't hurt the hammer a bit.

--
Checkmate
 
Rich Grise wrote:
For some reason, this reminds me of an article I read in I think Popular
Electronics last millennium, about making a ground rod, arbitrarily
deep, with copper pipe and your garden hose. You solder a hose fitting
on one end of the pipe, and attach the hose. Stand it up with the
open end on the ground, and turn the water on. The water coming out
the pipe digs through the dirt, and unless there's big rocks, it
supposedly goes in pretty easily. And they said, if 10' isn't enough,
you can just solder another pipe on top of that one, move the hose
fitting, and continue, etc.

Anybody ever actually done that, or heard of it being done?
Click to expand...
Yes, it works a charm. Never could figure out why it wasn't more widely
known/used.
--
John Miller
Email address: domain, n4vu.com; username, jsm

Do not meddle in the affairs of troff, for it is subtle and quick to anger.
 
I couldn't use that clamp-on ground tester to see if my phone and cable lines are adequately grounded. Shouldn't I know how well they are grounded before I make a decision on whether or
not to purchase a surge suppresser like the Intermatic PanelGuard IG1300-4T-2C, which protects phone lines and cable lines as well?




SQLit wrote:

"Flea Ridden" <flea@flea.ridden> wrote in message
news:40E977E8.D57B6A19@flea.ridden...
This is a most informative article, and it echoes what w_tom says:
http://www.ecmweb.com/mag/electric_hit_grounding_home/

So when I call an arbitrary electrician to ask for a grounding survey,
how do I know he's telling me the truth?

Do I have to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars to purchase a ground
tester?

This is for a single family home that I have lived in for about 7 years,
and will probably continue to live in for about 7 more years.


Since I'm having electrical work done, I would also like something like
this: http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_3108400 installed
at my breaker box; it would be nice if it could break down it's info by
each breaker; and it would also be nice if it could tell me how much
current is flowing through my ground connection.

drivel snipped

If your trying to protect from lightning then you need a lightning
protection system. try UL-96A for the specs. Every system I installed helped
a little when the strike came. Nothing is guaranteed protection for
lightning way to many variables.

IEEE has standards for surge protection, they come in 3 categories.
Distribution, service and point of use. You need 2 out of 3 to have decent
protection. Since distribution is handled by the serving utility we now have
two to work with.
There are 2 basic types of surge protection devices, MOV's and the rest.
MOV's are tested once. So they will do their job once, a second hit,,, who
knows.

Grounding and installation are the most important. The average Joe
electrician is not going to have an ground tester. Are you planning a 3
point or 4 point test? I used to use 3 point a lot, also called fall of
potential. 4 point I used for measuring the soil resistively for
installation of ground systems. Then there are the clamp on ground testers
which can do the job with out shutting down the electrical service for a
test.
http://www.electricitymetering.com/category/detail.scd-pscdrv230100276-selectedzq111zq2scdrv230100401-selectedzq111zq2scdfa-230100401-selectProduct-idzq3258zq4category_idzq379zq1true .
The most important thing here is the guy running the meter. It takes a fair
amount of experience to understand what the readings mean. Try to achieve
less than 5 ohms during your driest times. You can always add more ground
rods to the electrical service to get the readings lower. I once had to add
2-40' long chemical ground rods to a service to get it to 2 ohms. These must
be installed per the local and national codes.

The wires should be short as possible for connecting your surge arrestor. CH
and other manufactures make units that connect to the buss for services. SQD
has one for the homeline panel that plugs in like a breaker. The most
important part is to have the let through at the service arrestor be below
the threshold of the point of use arrestor.
You can put that warranty crap in you peace pipe and smoke it. I used to
work for an OEM and they NEVER paid a single claim in 8 years for arrestors.
You will never be able to prove the unit ever failed to work. Make the best
choices you can and hope for the best.
Click to expand...
 
"Rich Grise" <null@example.net> wrote in message
news:4695651.F1RhZnGit9@entheos.thunderbird.ops.dsl-verizon.net...
on Monday 05 July 2004 10:18 am, SQLit wrote:


"Flea Ridden" <flea@flea.ridden> wrote in message
news:40E977E8.D57B6A19@flea.ridden...
This is a most informative article, and it echoes what w_tom says:
http://www.ecmweb.com/mag/electric_hit_grounding_home/

So when I call an arbitrary electrician to ask for a grounding survey,
how do I know he's telling me the truth?
. The most important thing here is the guy running the meter. It takes a
fair
amount of experience to understand what the readings mean. Try to
achieve
less than 5 ohms during your driest times. You can always add more
ground
rods to the electrical service to get the readings lower. I once had to
add 2-40' long chemical ground rods to a service to get it to 2 ohms.
These must be installed per the local and national codes.

For some reason, this reminds me of an article I read in I think Popular
Electronics last millennium, about making a ground rod, arbitrarily
deep, with copper pipe and your garden hose. You solder a hose fitting
on one end of the pipe, and attach the hose. Stand it up with the
open end on the ground, and turn the water on. The water coming out
the pipe digs through the dirt, and unless there's big rocks, it
supposedly goes in pretty easily. And they said, if 10' isn't enough,
you can just solder another pipe on top of that one, move the hose
fitting, and continue, etc.

Anybody ever actually done that, or heard of it being done?
--
Cheers!
Rich

I often create a small pond, fill it with water, hop up on the step ladder
Click to expand...
and use my 90° chucked on the rod to spin it in. Make sure you keep the
pond filled with water.

Bill
 
Something like this, I've done.

You take a plastic pail and fill it with water, make a depression in the
ground and fill the depression with water.

Take a 10' ground rod and start tamping the water in the depression.
The rod will (in loan or in clay) quickly work its way down. When the
rod gets hard to move, remove and add more water.

Repeat until the rod is buried to within half a foot of surface.

I'd be skeptical of the copper pipe trick, because over a period of time
ground rods corrode - and they are made of solid copper (or something
like it, electrically speaking). The pipe, being hollow, will corrode
that much faster.

H.

In article
<4695651.F1RhZnGit9@entheos.thunderbird.ops.dsl-verizon.net>,
Rich Grise <null@example.net> wrote:

on Monday 05 July 2004 10:18 am, SQLit wrote:


"Flea Ridden" <flea@flea.ridden> wrote in message
news:40E977E8.D57B6A19@flea.ridden...
This is a most informative article, and it echoes what w_tom says:
http://www.ecmweb.com/mag/electric_hit_grounding_home/

So when I call an arbitrary electrician to ask for a grounding survey,
how do I know he's telling me the truth?
. The most important thing here is the guy running the meter. It takes a
fair
amount of experience to understand what the readings mean. Try to achieve
less than 5 ohms during your driest times. You can always add more ground
rods to the electrical service to get the readings lower. I once had to
add 2-40' long chemical ground rods to a service to get it to 2 ohms.
These must be installed per the local and national codes.

For some reason, this reminds me of an article I read in I think Popular
Electronics last millennium, about making a ground rod, arbitrarily
deep, with copper pipe and your garden hose. You solder a hose fitting
on one end of the pipe, and attach the hose. Stand it up with the
open end on the ground, and turn the water on. The water coming out
the pipe digs through the dirt, and unless there's big rocks, it
supposedly goes in pretty easily. And they said, if 10' isn't enough,
you can just solder another pipe on top of that one, move the hose
fitting, and continue, etc.

Anybody ever actually done that, or heard of it being done?
Click to expand...
 
Rowbotth wrote:
I'd be skeptical of the copper pipe trick, because over a period of time
ground rods corrode - and they are made of solid copper (or something
like it, electrically speaking). The pipe, being hollow, will corrode
that much faster.
Click to expand...
There has been a misunderstanding. The copper pipe is not the ground rod;
it's just the drill.
--
John Miller
Email address: domain, n4vu.com; username, jsm

Some people around here wouldn't recognize subtlety if it hit them on the
head.
 
"Rich Grise" <null@example.net> wrote in message
news:4695651.F1RhZnGit9@entheos.thunderbird.ops.dsl-verizon.net...
on Monday 05 July 2004 10:18 am, SQLit wrote:


"Flea Ridden" <flea@flea.ridden> wrote in message
news:40E977E8.D57B6A19@flea.ridden...
This is a most informative article, and it echoes what w_tom says:
http://www.ecmweb.com/mag/electric_hit_grounding_home/

So when I call an arbitrary electrician to ask for a grounding survey,
how do I know he's telling me the truth?
. The most important thing here is the guy running the meter. It takes a
fair
amount of experience to understand what the readings mean. Try to
achieve
less than 5 ohms during your driest times. You can always add more
ground
rods to the electrical service to get the readings lower. I once had to
add 2-40' long chemical ground rods to a service to get it to 2 ohms.
These must be installed per the local and national codes.

For some reason, this reminds me of an article I read in I think Popular
Electronics last millennium, about making a ground rod, arbitrarily
deep, with copper pipe and your garden hose. You solder a hose fitting
on one end of the pipe, and attach the hose. Stand it up with the
open end on the ground, and turn the water on. The water coming out
the pipe digs through the dirt, and unless there's big rocks, it
supposedly goes in pretty easily. And they said, if 10' isn't enough,
you can just solder another pipe on top of that one, move the hose
fitting, and continue, etc.

Anybody ever actually done that, or heard of it being done?
--
Cheers!
Rich
Click to expand...
I hope not. It's Mickey Mouse. That's the kind of misinformation about
power wiring that one can expect from an electronics magazine. Grounds rods
need to be _driven_ so that they are in close, tight contact with the soil.
Blasting one in with a water hose would result in a very bad ground because
the soil around it would be very loose. If pounding one in with a sledge
hammer is too much work, rent a rotory hammer, set it to the hammer mode and
have at it (some require an adapter). Driving ground rods deeper (20 ft.)
results in a better ground. That's what threaded ground rods are for.
 
Ground tester is for measuring the conductivity of earth. This is
different from the wires that connect to that single point earth
ground. Those wires are best 'tested' by visual inspection. Low
conductivity might appear good to the tester. But higher impedance
created by wire too long, splices, sharp bends, wire inside metallic
conduit, wire bundled with other non-earthing wires, etc all would
contribute to an inferior connection to earth ground. That tester
cannot test wire impedance. Low impedance (not just good conductivity)
is essential to effective protection.

Conductivity of earth ground is only one factor in surge protection.
Another factor that is not measured is how well that single point
ground makes earth beneath the building equipotential. Furthermore,
how each incoming utility connects to that earthing point is, but,
another factor in protection - another factor that cannot be tested.
Either that connection is made via a 'less than 10 foot' wire OR
connection made through a surge protector. (Notice MOVs are not surge
protection; MOVs simply the equivalent of that earthing wire). But how
each incoming utility connects to single point earth ground is best
determined by visual inspection.

Furthermore, the above is only a household secondary protection.
The 'whole house' protector is only secondary protection. Primary
protector is installed by the utility. That primary protection system
is shown in pictures with examples of a defective primary protection
system:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html
And rules for earthing:
http://www.tvtower.com/grounding_and_bonding.html

Yes, one can measure the conductivity of earth. That, in part,
defines effectiveness of a protection system. But other essential
parts are best verified only using visual inspection.

Does one require cable and phone protection? The telco installs and
earths an effective protector for free. They already should make that
'less than 10 foot' earthing connection to single point ground. CATV
needs no protector. CATV protection is the 'less than 10 foot' wire
that connects ground block to single point earth ground. Why install
a protector when a hardwire connection does same thing?

This we do know. Effective protection from a direct lightning
strike is so well proven that damage is considered traceable to human
failure.

Flea Ridden <flea@flea.ridden> wrote in message news:<40E9D1DA.C9679FC1@flea.ridden>...
I couldn't use that clamp-on ground tester to see if my phone and
cable lines are adequately grounded. Shouldn't I know how well they
are grounded before I make a decision on whether or not to purchase a
surge suppresser like the Intermatic PanelGuard IG1300-4T-2C, which
protects phone lines and cable lines as well?
Click to expand...
 
"SQLit" <SQLitnospam@cox.net> wrote in message news:<l3gGc.10204$nc.4311@fed1read03>...

IEEE has standards for surge protection, they come in 3 categories.
Distribution, service and point of use. You need 2 out of 3 to have decent
protection. Since distribution is handled by the serving utility we now have
two to work with.
Click to expand...
I have 2 point protection - service and point of use. I have had 2
lightning strikes in the past few years and have had no power related
damage. However, both times it wiped out my tv's by coming in the
cable tv line. Last week it got 3 tv's ($2500 loss). Sure wish there
was a better way of protecting the cable.

There are 2 basic types of surge protection devices, MOV's and the rest.
MOV's are tested once. So they will do their job once, a second hit,,, who
knows.
Click to expand...
They usually blow open so you don't know they're not working. I have
only seen one blow to a short - kept popping a breaker.

The most important thing here is the guy running the meter. It takes a fair
amount of experience to understand what the readings mean. Try to achieve
less than 5 ohms during your driest times. You can always add more ground
rods to the electrical service to get the readings lower. I once had to add
2-40' long chemical ground rods to a service to get it to 2 ohms.
Click to expand...
I have had to pour 50# bags of rock salt around ground rods in sandy
soil to get less than 5 ohms. Have had to cad-weld rods end-to-end and
go down 50 ft. to get a good ground. Have also had to create a ground
field of up to 12 interconnected rods. Sometimes you just do what you
have to do!

You can put that warranty crap in you peace pipe and smoke it. I used to
work for an OEM and they NEVER paid a single claim in 8 years for arrestors.
You will never be able to prove the unit ever failed to work. Make the best
choices you can and hope for the best.
Click to expand...
And the fine print says you have to have affidavits from all utility
companies, service providers, and home insurance companies stating
they will not pay for losses before the arrestor company will even
accept your claim.

Bob S.
 
On 5 Jul 2004 20:01:55 -0700, w_tom1@usa.net (w_tom) wrote:

Ground tester is for measuring the conductivity of earth. This is
different from the wires that connect to that single point earth
ground. Those wires are best 'tested' by visual inspection. Low
conductivity might appear good to the tester. But higher impedance
created by wire too long, splices, sharp bends, wire inside metallic
conduit, wire bundled with other non-earthing wires, etc all would
contribute to an inferior connection to earth ground. That tester
cannot test wire impedance. Low impedance (not just good conductivity)
is essential to effective protection.
Click to expand...
Regarding the Watt's Up Meter Technology. Using existing electronic
meters, a version of this would be easy enough for the power companies
to implement. With the technology available today, there is no
significant technical barrier to doing this. They could charge you
something extra for a remote detailed readout of your hourly power
consumption and how much you are paying for it on an hour-by-hour
basis. It might even help you save some energy when you are more
aware of what you are paying for it up-to-the minute.

The problem is that the power companies don't really want you to be
too aware of what you are paying for energy. Saving energy may be
good for you and your neighbor (unless your neighbor is president of
the power company and their bonus is tied to the gross revenue of the
company), but it is their interest for you to consume as much power as
possible (particularly during off peak hours).

Beachcomber
 
--
Don Kelly
dhky@peeshaw.ca
remove the urine to answer
"Rich Grise" <null@example.net> wrote in message
news:4695651.F1RhZnGit9@entheos.thunderbird.ops.dsl-verizon.net...
on Monday 05 July 2004 10:18 am, SQLit wrote:


"Flea Ridden" <flea@flea.ridden> wrote in message
news:40E977E8.D57B6A19@flea.ridden...
This is a most informative article, and it echoes what w_tom says:
http://www.ecmweb.com/mag/electric_hit_grounding_home/

So when I call an arbitrary electrician to ask for a grounding survey,
how do I know he's telling me the truth?
. The most important thing here is the guy running the meter. It takes a
fair
amount of experience to understand what the readings mean. Try to
achieve
less than 5 ohms during your driest times. You can always add more
ground
rods to the electrical service to get the readings lower. I once had to
add 2-40' long chemical ground rods to a service to get it to 2 ohms.
These must be installed per the local and national codes.

For some reason, this reminds me of an article I read in I think Popular
Electronics last millennium, about making a ground rod, arbitrarily
deep, with copper pipe and your garden hose. You solder a hose fitting
on one end of the pipe, and attach the hose. Stand it up with the
open end on the ground, and turn the water on. The water coming out
the pipe digs through the dirt, and unless there's big rocks, it
supposedly goes in pretty easily. And they said, if 10' isn't enough,
you can just solder another pipe on top of that one, move the hose
fitting, and continue, etc.

Anybody ever actually done that, or heard of it being done?
--
Cheers!
Rich
Click to expand...
I remember a different version of this- where the ground rod was hard to
drive- piss on it ( or rather in the initial hole). It really does help in
driving the rod. Cheaper than the above.However this is limited to
non-public places.

As to Michael's suggestion re lightning rods- these are worse than useless
without proper grounding.

>
 
Flea Ridden <flea@flea.ridden> wrote:


So when I call an arbitrary electrician to ask for a grounding survey,
how do I know he's telling me the truth?
Click to expand...
How do you know any one is?
But what you want is not an electrician.
You want an electrical testing company.


Do I have to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars to purchase a ground
tester?
Click to expand...
Thats a big range, but no. You could make one.



This is for a single family home that I have lived in for about 7 years,
and will probably continue to live in for about 7 more years.
Click to expand...

Since I'm having electrical work done, I would also like something like
this: http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_3108400 installed
at my breaker box; it would be nice if it could break down it's info by
each breaker; and it would also be nice if it could tell me how much
current is flowing through my ground connection
Click to expand...
I think we still have some equipment that could do that for you, but I
doubt you want to pay for it or for the software system to run it.






jk
 
on Monday 05 July 2004 05:20 pm, John Miller wrote:

Rowbotth wrote:
I'd be skeptical of the copper pipe trick, because over a period of time
ground rods corrode - and they are made of solid copper (or something
like it, electrically speaking). The pipe, being hollow, will corrode
that much faster.

There has been a misunderstanding. The copper pipe is not the ground rod;
it's just the drill.
Click to expand...
Actually, from the article, I'd had the impression that they left the
pipe. But, this was for ham radio antenna grounding, not mains power
entry panel grounding.
--
Cheers!
Rich
 
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