Which is the best hobby do-it-yourself method for making PCB

[samIam]

In the past I have been using the toner transfer iron on technique.
The best I have gotten is 75-80% of the board done ... the remaining
20 - 30% is rework for missing/broken traces etc.

I am just wondering what is the best hobby do-it-yourself method?

Someone hinted at photo transfer

What has worked for you guys in the past?
What gives the best results on a fairly consistent basis?
How about double sided boards?
Thanks

 

[Paul Burridge]

Simplest and cheapest way is copper clad board, ferric chloride,
acetone, metal polish and a permanent, black felt pen.
1. Thoroughly clean the copper cladding with wadding metal polish and
buff-up to high shine.
2. Draw out the tracks where you want them with the felt pen.
3. Allow the ink to dry thoroughly in a warm atmosphere.
4. Heat the ferric chloride solution in a shallow plastic tray to
around 50'C.
5. Drop the board into the solution and agitate until unwanted areas
of copper are dissolved.
6. Remove, wash in warm water, dry.
7. Wash off the black marker traces with acetone and repeat step 1
wrt to the metal polish.
8. After soldering in components, lacquer the board (optional).
--

"What is now proved was once only imagin'd" - William Blake

 

[Mike Harrison]

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:30:00 +0100, "Deefoo" <nonono@wonttell.com> wrote:

"samIam" <him@here.com> wrote in message
news:0pngf.27744$rc7.25204@fe12.lga...
In the past I have been using the toner transfer iron on technique.
The best I have gotten is 75-80% of the board done ... the remaining
20 - 30% is rework for missing/broken traces etc.

I am just wondering what is the best hobby do-it-yourself method?

Someone hinted at photo transfer

What has worked for you guys in the past?
What gives the best results on a fairly consistent basis?
How about double sided boards?
Thanks

I still make some myself the classic photographic way, 100% success, takes
me about 15 minutes with fresh, well heated etching liquid (the dirty yellow
one). There are many good tutorials to be found on the web. The hardest
part, I find, is cutting the board
Small guillotine

and drilling the holes in the right
place.

Make sure pad patterns have holes in the middle to act as centre marks.

Lots of info on making good homebrew pcbs : www.electricstuff.co.uk/pcbs.html

 

[Chuck Harris]

Mike Harrison wrote:

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:30:00 +0100, "Deefoo" <nonono@wonttell.com> wrote:


"samIam" <him@here.com> wrote in message
news:0pngf.27744$rc7.25204@fe12.lga...

In the past I have been using the toner transfer iron on technique.
The best I have gotten is 75-80% of the board done ... the remaining
20 - 30% is rework for missing/broken traces etc.

I am just wondering what is the best hobby do-it-yourself method?

Someone hinted at photo transfer

What has worked for you guys in the past?
What gives the best results on a fairly consistent basis?
How about double sided boards?
Thanks

I still make some myself the classic photographic way, 100% success, takes
me about 15 minutes with fresh, well heated etching liquid (the dirty yellow
one). There are many good tutorials to be found on the web. The hardest
part, I find, is cutting the board

Small guillotine


and drilling the holes in the right
place.


Make sure pad patterns have holes in the middle to act as centre marks.

Nah, tell the PCB software to leave the holes out of the pads, and then
when you etch, you will leave behind a nice little hole in the copper
pad where your drill bit goes. It makes drilling a snap.

-Chuck

 

[Mike Harrison]

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 09:05:39 -0500, Chuck Harris <cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:

Mike Harrison wrote:
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:30:00 +0100, "Deefoo" <nonono@wonttell.com> wrote:


"samIam" <him@here.com> wrote in message
news:0pngf.27744$rc7.25204@fe12.lga...

In the past I have been using the toner transfer iron on technique.
The best I have gotten is 75-80% of the board done ... the remaining
20 - 30% is rework for missing/broken traces etc.

I am just wondering what is the best hobby do-it-yourself method?

Someone hinted at photo transfer

What has worked for you guys in the past?
What gives the best results on a fairly consistent basis?
How about double sided boards?
Thanks

I still make some myself the classic photographic way, 100% success, takes
me about 15 minutes with fresh, well heated etching liquid (the dirty yellow
one). There are many good tutorials to be found on the web. The hardest
part, I find, is cutting the board

Small guillotine


and drilling the holes in the right
place.


Make sure pad patterns have holes in the middle to act as centre marks.

Nah, tell the PCB software to leave the holes out of the pads, and then
when you etch, you will leave behind a nice little hole in the copper
pad where your drill bit goes.

-Chuck

...erm that's exactly what I was saying.... you NEED holes in the pads to be able to drill them
sensibly

 

[Chuck Harris]

and drilling the holes in the right
place.


Make sure pad patterns have holes in the middle to act as centre marks.

Nah, tell the PCB software to leave the holes out of the pads, and then
when you etch, you will leave behind a nice little hole in the copper
pad where your drill bit goes.

-Chuck


..erm that's exactly what I was saying.... you NEED holes in the pads to be able to drill them
sensibly

Oops! I saw "centre marks" and thought center marks (eg. cross hairs).

Sorry!

-Chuck

 

[Rich Grise]

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 20:20:33 -0500, John Popelish wrote:

Chuck Harris wrote:

If you dump the FeCl into a sink, it will eat out the brass traps, without
regard for how much water you flush down the sink... ask me how I know ;-)

Hence the need for pre-neutralization with washing soda. It will do
nothing to pipes after that, except, possibly line them with a bit of mud.

Which sounds kinda like it'd be the same color as the bit of mud they
get lined with already. ;-P (ever disconnected the dump hose of a trailer
that's been sitting in a lot for 3 years? Eww!)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 05:20:48 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:

However, ferric chloride is very easy to chemically alter, so it is
almost completely inert in the environment. Just neutralize it with
washing soda (sodium carbonate) till it quits fizzing. Then all iron
and copper chloride will have been converted to almost insoluble iron
and copper carbonate mud. Then you can flush it down the toilet.

OK, dumb question time - does this work with sodium bicarbonate
as well? Or is it maybe not recommended because of the H in NaHCO3?

It should do, only it'll fizz a bit more than with washing soda.

I have a confession to make - I had enough of the RS stuff to be about
an inch deep in a 9" x 12" cake pan, and I just dumped it down the storm
drain, which leads to the ocean, so I feel so guilty I should probably
turn Liberal or something[1]. ;-P I had done one double-sided board, if
that makes any difference. And the only heat I used was to set the pan in
the driveway in the sun.

the ocean's got plenty of iron (from rusting ships etc) and heaps of chlorine
in it already, a little copper is unlikely to harm anything.

I still like the idea of neutralizing it, just so it's not corrosive or

toxic on the way down the pipe.

Plus which, it sounds kinda fun. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

 

To apply the positive resist evenly on boards:

1. You need a variable speed quarter inch drill with a sanding
attachment, double sided masking tape and a cardboard box (and
posttive resist)

2. Poke a hole in the cardboard box( large enough so that your board
fits into the box not hitting the sides) so that the drill end sticks
through.

3. Attach the sanding attachment to the drill.

4, Tape your pc board tape the board using double sided masking tape
to a sanding attachment. Center (balance) it well.

5. Pour a "small" amount of the positive resist on the board. You'll
have to experiment to find the correct amount.

6. Place a cover over the open end of the box so that when you spin
the board (in the next step) the excess positive resist will not fly
out and coat unwanted objects (you among other things).

7 Slowly spin the board so that cetrifical force will spread the
resist over the board. You'll have to stop a few times to check this.

Lots of luck.

Harry
==================

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 23:10:05 +0200, Anton Erasmus
<nobody@spam.prevent.net> wrote:

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:14:41 -0500, samIam <him@here.com> wrote:

In the past I have been using the toner transfer iron on technique.
The best I have gotten is 75-80% of the board done ... the remaining
20 - 30% is rework for missing/broken traces etc.

I am just wondering what is the best hobby do-it-yourself method?

Someone hinted at photo transfer

What has worked for you guys in the past?
What gives the best results on a fairly consistent basis?
How about double sided boards?
Thanks

I have found that using pre-clad boards with positive resist work
quite well. With the spray on positive resist, it is difficult to get
a nice even coating without any bubbles and dust.
http://www.bungard.com/ have very good quality pre-sensitised
PCBs. (Both single and double sided with a long shelve life)
Print the layout on a transparency using an inkjet printer. Clamp
the transparency against the PCB (photo resist) side with a piece
of transparent glass. Expose in sunlight for about 45 seconds.
(Experiment a bit). Develop PCB, and etch. I have had very good
results with even 10mil tracks and 10 mil spacing.
When doing double sided, one must make very sure of the alignment of
the 2 sides.

Regards
Anton Erasmus

 

[Chuck Harris]

harryhbrown@earthlink.net wrote:

To apply the positive resist evenly on boards:

1. You need a variable speed quarter inch drill with a sanding
attachment, double sided masking tape and a cardboard box (and
posttive resist)

2. Poke a hole in the cardboard box( large enough so that your board
fits into the box not hitting the sides) so that the drill end sticks
through.

3. Attach the sanding attachment to the drill.

4, Tape your pc board tape the board using double sided masking tape
to a sanding attachment. Center (balance) it well.

5. Pour a "small" amount of the positive resist on the board. You'll
have to experiment to find the correct amount.

6. Place a cover over the open end of the box so that when you spin
the board (in the next step) the excess positive resist will not fly
out and coat unwanted objects (you among other things).

7 Slowly spin the board so that cetrifical force will spread the
resist over the board. You'll have to stop a few times to check this.

Lots of luck.

I guess that's a way, but in industry, we did it a little differently.
We used a thin rectangular S.S. "bucket" that was just slightly larger
than the board we were coating, and dipped the board into the bucket
vertically, then after removing it, we let it hang to drip dry. This
was all done under yellow lights to keep from exposing the resist.

I did thousands of boards that way, and never had any coating thickness
problems.

-Chuck

 

[James T. White]

"Chuck Harris" <cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote in message
news:f72dnUwy-OAVpDneRVn-qw@rcn.net...

harryhbrown@earthlink.net wrote:

I guess that's a way, but in industry, we did it a little differently.
We used a thin rectangular S.S. "bucket" that was just slightly larger
than the board we were coating, and dipped the board into the bucket
vertically, then after removing it, we let it hang to drip dry. This
was all done under yellow lights to keep from exposing the resist.

I did thousands of boards that way, and never had any coating
thickness
problems.

I've used the "dip method" as a hobyist, too. Not having a made to size
container usually meant finding something and pouring in more liquid
resist
in than I needed. When I was done, I had to decide if I wanted to risk
contaminating the resist still in the bottle with that that was in the
tray. For
a PCB shop the answer is simple, throw it out. For for the hobyist that
usually means saving it. I never had problems, but was always concerned
that eventually I would get dust/lint from the air in it or have
problems
with viscosity since some evaporation is unavoidable.

--
James T. White

 

[Chuck Harris]

James T. White wrote:

"Chuck Harris" <cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote in message
news:f72dnUwy-OAVpDneRVn-qw@rcn.net...
harryhbrown@earthlink.net wrote:

I guess that's a way, but in industry, we did it a little differently.
We used a thin rectangular S.S. "bucket" that was just slightly larger
than the board we were coating, and dipped the board into the bucket
vertically, then after removing it, we let it hang to drip dry. This
was all done under yellow lights to keep from exposing the resist.

I did thousands of boards that way, and never had any coating
thickness
problems.


I've used the "dip method" as a hobyist, too. Not having a made to size
container usually meant finding something and pouring in more liquid
resist

Our container was made using a bending brake, and some sheet stainless steel.
You could easily make one using some pieces of plexiglass, and a little
glue.

in than I needed. When I was done, I had to decide if I wanted to risk
contaminating the resist still in the bottle with that that was in the
tray. For
a PCB shop the answer is simple, throw it out.

I don't recall ever actually dumping out the resist. We just kept
adding more KPR to the pot. It was quite an ugly mess what with the drips
drooling down the sides, turning brown and congealing. The pot had a simple
cover (also bent up with the brake) that we put over its top when it wasn't
in use.

For for the hobyist that

usually means saving it. I never had problems, but was always concerned
that eventually I would get dust/lint from the air in it or have
problems
with viscosity since some evaporation is unavoidable.

Our environment wasn't exactly clean, being as we were in an open room just
off of the machine shop. I don't recall dust being much of a problem.

We used the same KPR pot to make PCB's, brass shimstock painting stencils,
and ID tags for equipment.

-Chuck

 

[Anton Erasmus]

On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 18:31:07 -0500, Chuck Harris
<cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:

James T. White wrote:
"Chuck Harris" <cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote in message
news:f72dnUwy-OAVpDneRVn-qw@rcn.net...
harryhbrown@earthlink.net wrote:

I guess that's a way, but in industry, we did it a little differently.
We used a thin rectangular S.S. "bucket" that was just slightly larger
than the board we were coating, and dipped the board into the bucket
vertically, then after removing it, we let it hang to drip dry. This
was all done under yellow lights to keep from exposing the resist.

I did thousands of boards that way, and never had any coating
thickness
problems.


I've used the "dip method" as a hobyist, too. Not having a made to size
container usually meant finding something and pouring in more liquid
resist

Our container was made using a bending brake, and some sheet stainless steel.
You could easily make one using some pieces of plexiglass, and a little
glue.

in than I needed. When I was done, I had to decide if I wanted to risk
contaminating the resist still in the bottle with that that was in the
tray. For
a PCB shop the answer is simple, throw it out.

I don't recall ever actually dumping out the resist. We just kept
adding more KPR to the pot. It was quite an ugly mess what with the drips
drooling down the sides, turning brown and congealing. The pot had a simple
cover (also bent up with the brake) that we put over its top when it wasn't
in use.

For for the hobyist that
usually means saving it. I never had problems, but was always concerned
that eventually I would get dust/lint from the air in it or have
problems
with viscosity since some evaporation is unavoidable.


Our environment wasn't exactly clean, being as we were in an open room just
off of the machine shop. I don't recall dust being much of a problem.

We used the same KPR pot to make PCB's, brass shimstock painting stencils,
and ID tags for equipment.

It is of course possible to get a nice even coating as a hobbiest, but
unless one does this quite often, the effort saved by using pre-coated
boards are immense. The boards from bungard also comes with a
protective sheet which protects the coating from light and mechanical
damage. One can saw, drill, punch, file and basically go bananas
without damaging the coating. It is difficult to remove this
protective sheet accidentaly, but it is quite easy to remove on
purpose. Having good quality pre-coated boards also removes one more
variable. When starting out it is often good to have as few as
possible variables to play with.
Are there any other manufacturers that provide pre-coated PCBs, which
can be ordered via the internet ?

Regards
Anton Erasmus

 

[Chuck Harris]

Anton Erasmus wrote:

Are there any other manufacturers that provide pre-coated PCBs, which
can be ordered via the internet ?

Regards
Anton Erasmus

Sure,

Go to http://WWW.digikey.com, or http://www.mouser.com. They each sell
precoated PCB's

-Chuck