Where to get FPGA devices for testing?

[Kelvin @ SG]

I have found that FPGA's and cables can be easily built for fun and hobby,
but that will break my wallet...
but I don't want to buy a demo board at US$45 and pay 50US$ for UPS...And I
don't want to spend
more US$50 at all...

JTAG cable can be built with a parallel cable...but where can I find the
FPGA devices and socket for them?

Kelvin

 

[fabbl]

And I
don't want to spend
more US$50 at all...

Find another hobby...Bird watching is cheap.

 

[Jean Nicolle]

hum, without changing hobby, you can find some small to medium size FPGAs
without spending too much.
Look for the Xilinx Spartan-2 and the Altera ACEX - small but still usable
devices are in the $10 to $20 range.

Sockets are expensive though ($200-$1000), so that's not a good solution to
save money.
For boards, look at http://www.fpga-faq.com/FPGA_Boards.shtml
You can find complete boards for less than $50 (most of them CPLD based
though)
The cheapest FPGA board seems to be http://www.fpga4fun.com/board_pluto.html
(10K gates) and doesn't require a parallel cable.
Anybody has other recommendations?

Jean (fpga4fun)

 

[Matt]

Try ebay.
Here is one with a starting bid of $10 and no bids yet!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2592626600&category=50913

And no it is not my board! ;-)




"Kelvin @ SG" <kelvin8157@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bvc3td$7h7$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg...

I have found that FPGA's and cables can be easily built for fun and hobby,
but that will break my wallet...
but I don't want to buy a demo board at US$45 and pay 50US$ for UPS...And
I
don't want to spend
more US$50 at all...

JTAG cable can be built with a parallel cable...but where can I find the
FPGA devices and socket for them?

Kelvin

 

[Ray Andraka]

Jean, neat website. In your post you should probably have said that the pluto
board is your board. I added a link from my links page to your site.
The Burch board is also one of the lower cost ones, but is still beyond the $50
budget. There is a fairly comprehensive list of boards at www.optimagic.com.
Jean, you may want to send them a note with details and a link to your board.

The Xilinx spartan2 and altera acex parts can be had for not much more than a
song ($10-20 USD), and these have enough gates to do some pretty cool things.
For example, I used an $18 spartanII chip to demo a shortwave radio implemented
entirely in an FPGA except for the A to D converter and antenna (there is a
block diagram on the front page of my website). Unfortunately, it does cost a
bit of money to make a board that is going to be robust enough to work under
hobbyist conditions and provide all the hooks to make it useful. The insight
spartan2 board I used ran a tad over $100 USD, which is more or less the low
end. The Burch board, and Jean's Pluto boards are about all that you'll find
cheaper.




Jean Nicolle wrote:

hum, without changing hobby, you can find some small to medium size FPGAs
without spending too much.
Look for the Xilinx Spartan-2 and the Altera ACEX - small but still usable
devices are in the $10 to $20 range.

Sockets are expensive though ($200-$1000), so that's not a good solution to
save money.
For boards, look at http://www.fpga-faq.com/FPGA_Boards.shtml
You can find complete boards for less than $50 (most of them CPLD based
though)
The cheapest FPGA board seems to be http://www.fpga4fun.com/board_pluto.html
(10K gates) and doesn't require a parallel cable.
Anybody has other recommendations?

Jean (fpga4fun)

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email ray@andraka.com
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

 

[Antti Lukats]

"Kelvin @ SG" <kelvin8157@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bvc3td$7h7$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg>...

I have found that FPGA's and cables can be easily built for fun and hobby,
but that will break my wallet...
but I don't want to buy a demo board at US$45 and pay 50US$ for UPS...And I
don't want to spend
more US$50 at all...

JTAG cable can be built with a parallel cable...but where can I find the
FPGA devices and socket for them?

Kelvin

be smart. be smarter.

at www.ebay.com you can find FPGA BGA pulls at price from
$9 for 300,000 gates and $49 for 1M Gates FPGA

even if it looks undoable at the first look BGA chips
with ball distance of 1mm+ and not full grid are easily
used in wire wrap proto boards.

just put it balls up onto some PCB board, connect GND and VCCxx
and JTAG and ready is your FPGA proto board in budget.

My proto worked at first attempt, power on and impact reported
device found in JTAG chain.

Antti
xilinx.openchip.org
P.S. if somebody doesnt believe I can post some photos of the
working proto board

PPS there is a catch - those cheap FPGA pulls, they are mostly
Virtex FPGA so can not be used with free WebPack

but I also obtained some Altera FGPAs they should be useable
in above mentioned manner and with free Quartus, I even have
some 'oveleft' chips if you want them

 

[Martin Thompson]

antti@case2000.com (Antti Lukats) writes:

<snip>

even if it looks undoable at the first look BGA chips
with ball distance of 1mm+ and not full grid are easily
used in wire wrap proto boards.

just put it balls up onto some PCB board, connect GND and VCCxx
and JTAG and ready is your FPGA proto board in budget.

My proto worked at first attempt, power on and impact reported
device found in JTAG chain.

Antti
xilinx.openchip.org
P.S. if somebody doesnt believe I can post some photos of the
working proto board

I believe you, but I'd still like to see the pictures!

Cheers,
Martin

--
martin.j.thompson@trw.com
TRW Conekt, Solihull, UK
http://www.trw.com/conekt

 

[Uwe Bonnes]

Antti Lukats <antti@case2000.com> wrote:
: "Kelvin @ SG" <kelvin8157@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bvc3td$7h7$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg>...
: > I have found that FPGA's and cables can be easily built for fun and hobby,
: > but that will break my wallet...
: > but I don't want to buy a demo board at US$45 and pay 50US$ for UPS...And I
: > don't want to spend
: > more US$50 at all...
: >
: > JTAG cable can be built with a parallel cable...but where can I find the
: > FPGA devices and socket for them?
: >
: > Kelvin

: be smart. be smarter.

: at www.ebay.com you can find FPGA BGA pulls at price from
^^^^^
What do you mean here?

: $9 for 300,000 gates and $49 for 1M Gates FPGA

: even if it looks undoable at the first look BGA chips
: with ball distance of 1mm+ and not full grid are easily
: used in wire wrap proto boards.

Which FBGA FPGA is not full grid?

Bye
--
Uwe Bonnes bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------

 

[Kelvin @ SG]

that is not true...bird park asks for a 7$ ticket...and 2$ on petrol...

"fabbl" <yttt@nukes.com> wrote in message
news:2PgSb.1999$ue6.1793@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...

And I
don't want to spend
more US$50 at all...

Find another hobby...Bird watching is cheap.

 

[Kelvin @ SG]

Jean:

You mentioned sockets are worth $200-$1000...what kind of sockets are those?
I think if it
is watch-repairing sort of skilled work, maybe it is more interesting than
FPGA already...
Do you mind give me a example of these expensive sockets?

Kelvin




"Jean Nicolle" <j.nicolle@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:TehSb.7580$jx5.6710@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...

hum, without changing hobby, you can find some small to medium size FPGAs
without spending too much.
Look for the Xilinx Spartan-2 and the Altera ACEX - small but still usable
devices are in the $10 to $20 range.

Sockets are expensive though ($200-$1000), so that's not a good solution
to
save money.
For boards, look at http://www.fpga-faq.com/FPGA_Boards.shtml
You can find complete boards for less than $50 (most of them CPLD based
though)
The cheapest FPGA board seems to be
http://www.fpga4fun.com/board_pluto.html
(10K gates) and doesn't require a parallel cable.
Anybody has other recommendations?

Jean (fpga4fun)

 

[Bob Perlman]

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:12:56 -0500, Ray Andraka <ray@andraka.com>
wrote:

For example, I used an $18 spartanII chip to demo a shortwave radio implemented
entirely in an FPGA except for the A to D converter and antenna (there is a
block diagram on the front page of my website).

Wow, an Ameco preamp--that brings back memories! I once convinced a
friend to build an Ameco AC-1 as his first ham transmitter. That was
30 years ago, but I'm still hoping that one of these days he may
forgive me.

Bob Perlman
Cambrian Design Works

 

[Uwe Bonnes]

Antti Lukats <antti@case2000.com> wrote:

....
: > : at www.ebay.com you can find FPGA BGA pulls at price from
: > ^^^^^
: > What do you mean here?
: >
: > : $9 for 300,000 gates and $49 for 1M Gates FPGA

: I got 17pcs of XCV600 for $99 and XCV2000 for $49
: those are all "pulled" and need reballing

What reballing service do you use and what price to expect?

: > : even if it looks undoable at the first look BGA chips
: > : with ball distance of 1mm+ and not full grid are easily
: > : used in wire wrap proto boards.
: >
: > Which FBGA FPGA is not full grid?

: http://xilinx.openchip.org/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album04&id=XCV300_BGA_Proto

: sorry I did mean the BGA inner balls are missing, FPGA array is full of

Virtex is mostly BGA (1.27 mm ball spacing). That's an easy one to get
prototyping boards for at a sensible price, as 0.15mm/0.15mm lines/spaces
and 0.3 mm for minimum drill work a long way and the well known prototyping
companies ( M&V, PCB Pool) deliver these rules. Also Virtex only occupies
four rows  from the outside (no full array), while more recent families are
mostly FBGA (1.0 mm ball pitch) and those rare in BGA(1.27mm) (BG575/BG728
for Virtex II) are fully occupied...

Virtex also has the problem, that it isn't supported by Webpack ...

Cyclone in a QFP240 package seems to have the most reachable pins with a
recent family.

Bye

--
Uwe Bonnes bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------

 

[Jean Nicolle]

yes. I wasn't sure how to put that, so I signed with fpga4fun.
Thanks for the link. Looks like www.andraka.com has quite some resource too,
that should make a good cross-link.
I tried to email optimagic a while back, but got no answer.

Yes, $100 is reasonable for an FPGA demo board. Unfortunately, there are not
many choices below that, and too many choices above...

 

[Jean Nicolle]

Try http://www.yamaichi.us/
I'll let you look for distributors and prices.

 

[Antti Lukats]

"Uwe Bonnes" <bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote in message
news:bvd9bc$u0k$1@news.tu-darmstadt.de...

Antti Lukats <antti@case2000.com> wrote:
: "Kelvin @ SG" <kelvin8157@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<bvc3td$7h7$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg>...
: > I have found that FPGA's and cables can be easily built for fun and
hobby,
: > but that will break my wallet...
: > but I don't want to buy a demo board at US$45 and pay 50US$ for
UPS...And I
: > don't want to spend
: > more US$50 at all...
:
: > JTAG cable can be built with a parallel cable...but where can I find
the
: > FPGA devices and socket for them?
:
: > Kelvin

: be smart. be smarter.

: at www.ebay.com you can find FPGA BGA pulls at price from
^^^^^
What do you mean here?

: $9 for 300,000 gates and $49 for 1M Gates FPGA

I got 17pcs of XCV600 for $99 and XCV2000 for $49
those are all "pulled" and need reballing

: even if it looks undoable at the first look BGA chips
: with ball distance of 1mm+ and not full grid are easily
: used in wire wrap proto boards.

Which FBGA FPGA is not full grid?

http://xilinx.openchip.org/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album04&id=XCV300_BGA_Proto

sorry I did mean the BGA inner balls are missing, FPGA array is full of
course

antti
xilinx.openchip.org

 

[Antti Lukats]

"Uwe Bonnes" <bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote in message
news:bve9ca$86p$1@news.tu-darmstadt.de...

Antti Lukats <antti@case2000.com> wrote:
...
: > : at www.ebay.com you can find FPGA BGA pulls at price from
: > ^^^^^
: > What do you mean here?
:
: > : $9 for 300,000 gates and $49 for 1M Gates FPGA

: I got 17pcs of XCV600 for $99 and XCV2000 for $49
: those are all "pulled" and need reballing

What reballing service do you use and what price to expect?

sorry, I said "need reballing" not that I have done that reballing
I specially selected FPGAs in packages that can be used
in wire wrap protos without any need of reballing
well I would also like to know what a cheap reballing price is

: > : even if it looks undoable at the first look BGA chips
: > : with ball distance of 1mm+ and not full grid are easily
: > : used in wire wrap proto boards.
:
: > Which FBGA FPGA is not full grid?

:
http://xilinx.openchip.org/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album04&id=XCV300_BGA_Proto

this BGA has not been reballed it is in an condition as I got it from ebay
auction

: sorry I did mean the BGA inner balls are missing, FPGA array is full of

Virtex is mostly BGA (1.27 mm ball spacing). That's an easy one to get
prototyping boards for at a sensible price, as 0.15mm/0.15mm lines/spaces
and 0.3 mm for minimum drill work a long way and the well known
prototyping
companies ( M&V, PCB Pool) deliver these rules. Also Virtex only occupies
four rows from the outside (no full array), while more recent families are
mostly FBGA (1.0 mm ball pitch) and those rare in BGA(1.27mm) (BG575/BG728
for Virtex II) are fully occupied...

I think you read my comments wrong I did not mention FBGA at all, so you
messed
with F - sure most fine grid BGAs are full array and 0.8 mm thats way more
complicated
for hand made wire wrap - tried once with TMS320C6205 and failed, well could
have
succeeded also but did it in a rush

I mostly wanted to have one 2Million gates test platform so obtained a few
XCV2000
chips and a XCV300 for getting warm to solder the 2000"s...

Virtex also has the problem, that it isn't supported by Webpack ...

yes, as I said too, thats the catch here
it is supported by free JBits 2.8 but that is not longer officially
obtainable

Cyclone in a QFP240 package seems to have the most reachable pins with a
recent family.

well yes, but that is not easy to get in 1 off quantity

Bye

--
Uwe Bonnes bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------

 

[Hul Tytus]

Is that $18.00 per single piece or $18.00 per 250,000 pieces?


Ray Andraka <ray@andraka.com> wrote:
: Jean, neat website. In your post you should probably have said that the pluto
: board is your board. I added a link from my links page to your site.
: The Burch board is also one of the lower cost ones, but is still beyond the $50
: budget. There is a fairly comprehensive list of boards at www.optimagic.com.
: Jean, you may want to send them a note with details and a link to your board.
:
: The Xilinx spartan2 and altera acex parts can be had for not much more than a
: song ($10-20 USD), and these have enough gates to do some pretty cool things.
: For example, I used an $18 spartanII chip to demo a shortwave radio implemented
: entirely in an FPGA except for the A to D converter and antenna (there is a
: block diagram on the front page of my website). Unfortunately, it does cost a
: bit of money to make a board that is going to be robust enough to work under
: hobbyist conditions and provide all the hooks to make it useful. The insight
: spartan2 board I used ran a tad over $100 USD, which is more or less the low
: end. The Burch board, and Jean's Pluto boards are about all that you'll find
: cheaper.
:

 

[Ray Andraka]

Single piece. Check Avnet. Their single piece prices currently range from about $16
to around $40 for the XC2S100 depending on package and speed grade.

Hul Tytus wrote:

Is that $18.00 per single piece or $18.00 per 250,000 pieces?

Ray Andraka <ray@andraka.com> wrote:
: Jean, neat website. In your post you should probably have said that the pluto
: board is your board. I added a link from my links page to your site.
: The Burch board is also one of the lower cost ones, but is still beyond the $50
: budget. There is a fairly comprehensive list of boards at www.optimagic.com.
: Jean, you may want to send them a note with details and a link to your board.
:
: The Xilinx spartan2 and altera acex parts can be had for not much more than a
: song ($10-20 USD), and these have enough gates to do some pretty cool things.
: For example, I used an $18 spartanII chip to demo a shortwave radio implemented
: entirely in an FPGA except for the A to D converter and antenna (there is a
: block diagram on the front page of my website). Unfortunately, it does cost a
: bit of money to make a board that is going to be robust enough to work under
: hobbyist conditions and provide all the hooks to make it useful. The insight
: spartan2 board I used ran a tad over $100 USD, which is more or less the low
: end. The Burch board, and Jean's Pluto boards are about all that you'll find
: cheaper.
:

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email ray@andraka.com
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759