Where do you source 35 Amp 220VAC circuit breakers that are

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

Where do you source circuit breakers that are NOT in typical box stores?
o Carling AA3-B0-24-635-5D1-C (do you have a decoder for that number?)

PG&E has currently cut the power to us in California where this is the 31st
sustained power outage in three years (of more than a day each, generally),
so my generator has been doing triple duty as the backup source of power.

Over time, this 35 amp ganged circuit breaker partially broke inside.
<https://i.postimg.cc/ryNkQQvY/breaker03.jpg>

It has "Carling Switch" molded on one side:
<https://i.postimg.cc/G37D8Jq6/breaker01.jpg>

And this barely readable paper label on the other side:
<https://i.postimg.cc/vmTTdpdB/breaker02.jpg>

The best I can make out from that data are these specs:
Carling Switch Inc.
AA2-B0-24-635-5D1-C
FL AMP 35
MAX VOLTS 227 (? hard to tell)
HERTZ 50/60
DELAY 04 (? hard to tell)
TRIP AMPS 43 (? hard to tell)
Mexico 9513 (probably the 13th week in 1995, likely original)

I called Generac's 24/7 live hotline, but they can't give me any more
information than the owners manual, parts diagram, and references
888-GENERAC (888-436-3722) extension 4, extension 2
1-262-544-4811 extension 1, extension 2, extension 4, extension 2

This is the relevant page out of that Generac Owners Manual they sent me:
<https://i.postimg.cc/qq326cBh/Generac-Control-Panel-9067-9-16345-Page-19.jpg>
o #5, Generac Part Number #74969, 35 Amp Circuit Breaker

Generac suggests these two outfits, who seem to charge astronomical prices:
o $137.07 <https://www.jackssmallengines.com/>
<https://www.jackssmallengines.com/jacks-parts-lookup/part/generac-engine-part/g074969>
o $233.45 <https://www.ordertree.com/> (877) 500-7499 x1
<https://www.ordertree.com/catalog/product/view/id/2072452/s/circt-brk-35-x-2-carling-2/>

Hence, the basic question of how you source basic electrical parts.

Where do you source circuit breakers that are NOT in typical box stores?
o Carling AA3-B0-24-635-5D1-C (do you have a decoder for that number?)

--
Purposefully unhelpful posts from the usual trolls will be ignored.
(i.e., if there is no response to your post - that means you're a troll)

 

On 10/27/19 5:08 PM, Arlen _G_ Holder wrote:

Where do you source circuit breakers that are NOT in typical box stores?
o Carling AA3-B0-24-635-5D1-C (do you have a decoder for that number?)

PG&E has currently cut the power to us in California where this is the 31st
sustained power outage in three years (of more than a day each, generally),
so my generator has been doing triple duty as the backup source of power.

Over time, this 35 amp ganged circuit breaker partially broke inside.
https://i.postimg.cc/ryNkQQvY/breaker03.jpg

It has "Carling Switch" molded on one side:
https://i.postimg.cc/G37D8Jq6/breaker01.jpg

And this barely readable paper label on the other side:
https://i.postimg.cc/vmTTdpdB/breaker02.jpg

The best I can make out from that data are these specs:
Carling Switch Inc.
AA2-B0-24-635-5D1-C
FL AMP 35
MAX VOLTS 227 (? hard to tell)
HERTZ 50/60
DELAY 04 (? hard to tell)
TRIP AMPS 43 (? hard to tell)
Mexico 9513 (probably the 13th week in 1995, likely original)

I called Generac's 24/7 live hotline, but they can't give me any more
information than the owners manual, parts diagram, and references
888-GENERAC (888-436-3722) extension 4, extension 2
1-262-544-4811 extension 1, extension 2, extension 4, extension 2

This is the relevant page out of that Generac Owners Manual they sent me:
https://i.postimg.cc/qq326cBh/Generac-Control-Panel-9067-9-16345-Page-19.jpg
o #5, Generac Part Number #74969, 35 Amp Circuit Breaker

Generac suggests these two outfits, who seem to charge astronomical prices:
o $137.07 <https://www.jackssmallengines.com/
https://www.jackssmallengines.com/jacks-parts-lookup/part/generac-engine-part/g074969
o $233.45 <https://www.ordertree.com/> (877) 500-7499 x1
https://www.ordertree.com/catalog/product/view/id/2072452/s/circt-brk-35-x-2-carling-2/

Hence, the basic question of how you source basic electrical parts.

Where do you source circuit breakers that are NOT in typical box stores?
o Carling AA3-B0-24-635-5D1-C (do you have a decoder for that number?)

Have you tried any of Carlings distributors in CA ?

https://www.carlingtech.com/findarep?location=243

Part # decoder is on page 5 of
https://www.carlingtech.com/sites/default/files/documents/Carling-HM-CB-A-Series.pdf

https://www.onlinecomponents.com/carling-technologies/aa2b0246355d1c-16957461.html
says they have 3 in stock in AZ

 

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 10/27/19 4:08 PM, Arlen _G_ Holder wrote:
> Carling AA3-B0-24-635-5D1-C

Captain Video decoder wheel:
<https://www.carlingtech.com/sites/default/files/documents/Carling-HM-CB-A-Series.pdf>

Page 37


--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

 

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 10/27/19 4:08 PM, Arlen _G_ Holder wrote:
[ usual shit deleted ]

This is why you don't buy Generac equipment.

I used to be a service manage at a sales and service tool
store.

People would bring in a Generac for repair.
They would NOT give us service information or sell us parts.

We put them on the "fuck you" list.

I bought a Honda 4500 watt generator 30 years ago. The only
service it's required is the battery, the air filter and the
oil.

As a friend of mine's brother-in-law succinctly put it, "Pay
shit, get shit."


--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

 

[Bob Engelhardt]

Please ... go to HD, get a Square D breaker and rig it up. Duct tape if
you have to <G>

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-QO-35-Amp-2-Pole-Circuit-Breaker-QO235CP/202495818

 

[Fred McKenzie]

In article <qp50vl$1gm$1@news.mixmin.net>,
Arlen _G_ Holder <_arlen.george@halder.edu> wrote:

The best I can make out from that data are these specs:
Carling Switch Inc.
AA2-B0-24-635-5D1-C
FL AMP 35
MAX VOLTS 227 (? hard to tell)
HERTZ 50/60
DELAY 04 (? hard to tell)
TRIP AMPS 43 (? hard to tell)
Mexico 9513 (probably the 13th week in 1995, likely original)

Arlen-

Take the old breaker into an Ace Hardware Store. You want something
that has the same mounting and terminals, rated for 35 Amps and at least
240 Volts.

The 43 "TRIP" Amps would be nice, but is not the most important
parameter. Hopefully you do not normally run the generator close to its
limit.

I would not be surprised if Ace had the exact breaker for around $25.

Fred

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <76WdneL4Ke1DlyvAnZ2dnUU7-UvNnZ2d@giganews.com>,
jdangus@att.net says...

I used to be a service manage at a sales and service tool
store.

People would bring in a Generac for repair.
They would NOT give us service information or sell us parts.

The government should make it a law the companies have to sell to
individuals the repair parts and service manuals if they have them.

Years ago I was with a friend at a boat warehouse picking up some parts.
A man wanted to buy a simple part,but they would not sell it to him as
he was not a dealer. We bought the part for the man and sold it to him
at our cost when he met us outside the warehouse.
Most places would have doubled the price to him.

What really hirts is if a big company buys lots of items at high dollars
and the manufactor goes out of busniness and they will not give or sell
you a manual on the equipment when you buy it.

 

[whit3rd]

On Sunday, October 27, 2019 at 2:47:47 PM UTC-7, Bob Engelhardt wrote:

Please ... go to HD, get a Square D breaker and rig it up. Duct tape if
you have to <G

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-QO-35-Amp-2-Pole-Circuit-Breaker-QO235CP/202495818

The 'QO235' is intended to snap-in to a load center; you really want the 'QOB235' to
be compatible with screw/lug connection.

The idea that only the original brand and model will work is ... definitely flawed.
That original brand and model is the one that failed, after all.

 

[Bod F]

On 10/27/2019 6:29 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

In article <76WdneL4Ke1DlyvAnZ2dnUU7-UvNnZ2d@giganews.com>,
jdangus@att.net says...
I used to be a service manage at a sales and service tool
store.

People would bring in a Generac for repair.
They would NOT give us service information or sell us parts.



The government should make it a law the companies have to sell to
individuals the repair parts and service manuals if they have them.

Years ago I was with a friend at a boat warehouse picking up some parts.
A man wanted to buy a simple part,but they would not sell it to him as
he was not a dealer. We bought the part for the man and sold it to him
at our cost when he met us outside the warehouse.
Most places would have doubled the price to him.

What really hirts is if a big company buys lots of items at high dollars
and the manufactor goes out of busniness and they will not give or sell
you a manual on the equipment when you buy it.

I think Team Amazon is teaching all those "wholesale only" assholes a painful lesson.

 

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 17:44:02 -0400, "Retired wrote:

Have you tried any of Carlings distributors in CA ?
https://www.carlingtech.com/findarep?location=243

Thanks for posting with purposefully helpful intent, where, since it's
Sunday, I can call the nearest Carling folks on Monday morning.

I did bring it (and missing fuses) to stores that are open on weekends, but
Ace & Home Depot did not carry it (I didn't check Walmart or Lowes yet but
the Home Depot guys said to give up on the box stores because of the
specific shape of both the fuses and the shape of the circuit breaker):
o Shape of fuses (600V, 2A)
<https://i.postimg.cc/MGb704vW/buss-sbs-2-600-V-fast-acting-fuse.jpg>
o Shape of circuit breaker (35 Amp, 2 pole)
<https://i.postimg.cc/T2FMp20V/breaker05.jpg>

Where Generac seems to use "unique dimension" parts, kind of sort of on
purpose if this SBS fuse description is any indication of that observation:
<https://www.ferrazfuses.com/cms_admin/fckeditor/editor/filemanager/connectors/php/bin/Midget%20Gen%20Pur%20SBS.pdf>
Where half the "highlights" are that they have "unique dimensions!".

I guess "unique dimension" as a "highlight" is a wholesaler's dream!
o Buss SBS-2 (green label) "fast acting ferrule fuses" 600 Volt, 2 Amp
o <https://bussfuses.net/> 800.739.9145 or 918.665.6888

These SBS-2 fuses are shown on page 17 of this transfer switch OM:
o #35 (Quantity 4 x two transfer switches = 8), FUSE 2A 600V PN: 73590
<https://www.generator-parts.com/manuals/home-standby/078590.pdf>

The problem is that neither Ace nor Home Depot carries them:
<https://www.amazon.com/Bussmann-BBS-2-600V-Midget-Acting/dp/B00BHWLZO0>

Where I admit I had to look up why it's a "ferrule" fuse:
o Ferrule is a word for a simple metal band or cap of great versatility.
<https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ferrule>

I called them, where it's a big company, Eaton, under Cooper Industries,
where the Bussman Fuses page is here 855-287-7626
<http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/public/en/bussmann.html>

Anyway, the fuses aren't my problem, but they do highlight the fact that
Generac uses parts whose "highlight" are that they have "unique
dimensions", which is why none of the box stores I checked carried them.

Since BUSS fuses are easy, and cheap (about ten bucks each), my issue isn't
the fuses but the circuit breaker, where you were helpful in finding good
information which I appreciate.

Part # decoder is on page 5 of
https://www.carlingtech.com/sites/default/files/documents/Carling-HM-CB-A-Series.pdf

Thanks for that reference decoding Carling AA2-B0-24-635-5D1-C into
o AA2-B0-24-635-5D1-C <https://i.postimg.cc/vmTTdpdB/breaker02.jpg>
o A = (1) series = A
o A = (2) actuator = Handle, one per pole
o 2 = (3) poles = Two
o B = (4) circuit = Series Trip (Current)
o 0 = (5) Auxiliary/alarm switch = w/o Aux Switch
o 24 = (6) Frequency & Delay = 50/60 Hz, Medium
o 635 = (7) Current Rating (Amperes) = 35.000
o 5 = (8) Terminal = Screw 10-32 (Bus Type)
o D = (9) Actuator = ON-OFF, Actuator Color Black, Legend White
o 1 = (10) Mounting/Barriers = 6-32 x 0.195 inches, no
o C = (11) Agency Approval = UL Recognized & CSA Accepted
o AA2-B0-24-635-5D1-C

The rest of the printed specs are assumed (based on page 37):
o 277VAC 50/60 Hz, 80VDC
o 10,000 ON-OFF operations @ 6 per minute

The spec "delay" is "medium" where it's "04" on the package:
o DELAY 04

The only package spec not found in the document was this one:
o TRIP AMPS 43 (? hard to tell)

But where I can still make the following corrections to the OP table:
o Carling Switch Inc. <https://i.postimg.cc/vmTTdpdB/breaker02.jpg>
o AA2-B0-24-635-5D1-C
o FL AMP 35
o MAX VOLTS 277
o HERTZ 50/60
o DELAY 04 (? hard to tell)
o TRIP AMPS 43 (? hard to tell)
o Mexico 9513 (probably the 13th week in 1995, likely original)

Interesting is this note on page 37:
"All A-Series Circuit Breakers will trip on overload, even when
the actuator is forcibly held in the ON position."

https://www.onlinecomponents.com/carling-technologies/aa2b0246355d1c-16957461.html
says they have 3 in stock in AZ

Thanks for finding that part with a price comparison point:
o $ 92.45 onlinecomponents.com
o $137.07 jackssmallengines.com
o $233.45 ordertree.com

Someone brought up we don't necessarily need to replace with the exact
part, which, after all, clearly failed before its 10,000 actuations
lifecycle; if I replace with an alternate part, it's good to know the specs
(but I'll likely buy the OE part for the obvious reasons).

--
As a service to the purposefully helpful posters, trolls will be ignored.

 

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 19:13:27 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:

Make that Mouser. Newark price is WAY higherr and no longer in stock.
Mouser has 10 in the warehouse

Thanks Clare for that purposefully helpful lookup, where I may have made an
inadvertent typo at some point, as it's AA2 (2 pole), not AA3 (3 pole):
o AA2-B0-24-635-5D1-C <https://i.postimg.cc/vmTTdpdB/breaker02.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/T2FMp20V/breaker05.jpg>

Mouser doesn't stock this part, but they do have a decent datasheet:
<https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/65/A-Series_Details__26_COS_030314-345780.pdf>

I will need to call Mouser during business hours for price & availability:
o (800) 346-6873, (817) 804-3888

Unfortunately, Newark also says "Not Normally Stocked":
<https://www.newark.com/carling-technologies/aa2-b0-24-635-5d1-c/a-series-circuit-breaker-rohs/dp/88H2049?ost=AA2-B0-24-635-5D1-C>

But at least they list a price, where, the going "fair" rate is about $100
o $ 92.45 onlinecomponents.com
o $ 95.53 newark.com
o $137.07 jackssmallengines.com
o $233.45 ordertree.com

The question is mainly HOW do you guys get hard-to-find electrical parts.

BTW, the smoke is everywhere easily smelled, strongly in the air, with that
classic wood burning smell, where the most recent time this happened was
the Paradise Fire, where the smoke traveled hundreds of miles to blanket
the Silicon Valley as this smoke is just now starting to do today with the
picking up of the wind in the past few hours.

 

[whit3rd]

On Sunday, October 27, 2019 at 6:54:18 PM UTC-7, Arlen _G_ Holder wrote:

> The question is mainly HOW do you guys get hard-to-find electrical parts.

if you have a part number, eBay or Amazon. SquareD QOB235 runs about $30

A friend with a drawer full of stuff, or a used/new oldstyle hardware store, might
work, too.

 

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 19:17:54 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd wrote:

> if you have a part number, eBay or Amazon. SquareD QOB235 runs about $30

Thanks for that purposefully helpful advice on considering this breaker:
o Square D QOB235 2 Pole Circuit Breaker
<https://www.superbreakers.net/2-pole-circuit-breakers/square-d-qob235-35-amp>

It would be nice if the circuit breaker fits reasonably well in the front:
<https://i.postimg.cc/63Z0x60t/generac-circuit-breaker-panel.jpg>

Where, in the rear, it's less important how things bolt together:
<https://i.postimg.cc/ryNkQQvY/breaker03.jpg>
Where the Carling uses four 10-32 terminal bolts (lug type).

I thank you for not trolling, since it takes zero energy for the trolls to
troll while you went to the trouble to find a decent fit, where what I'll
do is trace out a paper cutout on the generator and take it with me to Home
Depot or Ace to see if the $30 "Square D QOB235 2 Pole Circuit Breaker" can
be retrofitted into that front panel hole.

Thanks for spending energy to bring items of value to the Usenet potluck.

--
For Jeff Liebermann and anyone interested, the smell of fire is all over
Silicon Valley tonight, which the winds brougth suddenly, where a pall
hangs over the valley, with a very strong odor of burning wood.

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

Bob:

That accretion of slime that is calling itself Arlen G. Holder (this week) should not be trusted with anything sharper than a rubber spoon, much less an electrical part carrying lethal voltages and connecting in any way, shape or form to a residence, or anything else of any value.

Further to this, you did its work for it, as it is entirely unable muster the time to find the most obvious information on its own, but will engage in endless blather about the getting of it.

Put another way: Don't Feed The Troll.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

On Mon, 28 Oct 2019 08:53:54 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

What "I" would do, in all likelihood, is CONVERT it to a standard
more easily available part. Like a QOB. Just have to work out a
mounting method.

That is a very normal form factor for industrial equipment.

This thread is about how to source hard-to-find electrical parts.

Given results below, the summary is things "can" be sourced.
o But there must be a better way to source hard-to-find parts.
For those times you want the part in your hand today.

While converting to a different part, particularly from a part that clearly
failed prior to its 10,000 cycle rating, often works, and, I've often Rube
Goldberg'd myself, given this is an electrical component attached to the
mains, and given it has to be "to code", and given that it can kick in when
I'm not home, my FIRST CHOICE (for the minor price difference of $30 for a
different part & $100 for the right part anyway), is to try to source the
correct part that has bolt holes in it, rather than an alternative that
doesn't fit the weathertight outdoor generator enclosure attached to a huge
source of propane:
<https://i.postimg.cc/63Z0x60t/generac-circuit-breaker-panel.jpg>

Anyway, this thread is really not about the part per se, but how to SOURCE
hard-to-find electrical parts, which is more of a TECHNIQUE than anything
else.

On technique, I learned a lot about phone calls in the past few hours...

a. Part: Carling AA2-B0-24-635-5D1-C 35-amp circuit breaker
b. Carling: https://www.carlingtech.com/findarep?location=243
c. Carling suggests the long list of distributors (alphabetically)
d. Bridge: 408-335-6700 (you need to pick a person & leave a msg)
e. Avnet: 408-435-3500 (4-5 weeks lead time, $86.42)
f. Bates: 408-400-9586 (the number has been disconnected)
g. Digikey: 800-344-4539 (global sales only, min quantity is 20 parts)
h. Master: 408-970-8090 (not in stock locally, two weeks, $92.45)
i. Mouser: 817-804-3888 (not in stock, can send quote)
j. Newark: 800-463-9275 (not in stock, minimum order is 2)
k. Sager: 408-544-9500 (not in stock locally, can be ordered, $71.48)
l. TTI: 510-668-0830 (not in stock, can only order in bulk)
That's for the (mostly) local Carling so-called "distributors".

Now we get to local electrical parts suppliers...
m. AlexanderElec: 831-457-3911 (left message)
n. BayPower: 408-998-2980 (they don't stock, and can't order)
o. CupertinoElec: 408-808-8000 (don't deal with individuals)
p. Eckerman: 831-252-0987 (doesn't have any resource I don't have)
q. EdgesElec: 408-293-5818 (don't stock, don't order)
r. NicoElec: 408-446-4141 (left message)
s. Pfeiffer: 408-436-8523 (they don't do residential)
t. SprigElec: 408-298-3134 (transferred to sales, left message)

Where we already knew, from Generac, of these online sites:
u. onlinecomponents.com $ 92.45 (stock situation unknown)
v. jackssmallengines.com $137.07 (stock situation unknown)
w. ordertree.com $233.45 (stock situation unknown)

And, of course, there is always the Internet:
x. Amazon <https://www.amazon.com/Carling-Technologies-AA2-B0-24-635-5D1-C-Circuit-Breaker/dp/B00FV1ZJ7M>
y. FusesUnlimited <https://www.fusesunlimited.com/circuit-protection-detail/carling/aa2-b0-24-635-5d1-c>
z. Walmart <https://www.walmart.com/ip/Carling-Technologies-AA2-B0-24-635-5D1-C-Circuit-Breaker/213199082>

Given those results, the summary is things "can" be sourced.
o But there must be a better way to source hard-to-find parts.
For those times you want the part in your hand today.

--
BTW, PG&E says there will be "another" outage on Tuesday 10/29, which, is
odd, because we're still in the first outage from Saturday... and, get
this, at least where I live, the winds have been almost nothing all this
time. (Although I know what matters are wider area weather patterns.)

 

[John-Del]

On Sunday, October 27, 2019 at 7:09:46 PM UTC-4, Bod F wrote:

On 10/27/2019 6:29 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article <76WdneL4Ke1DlyvAnZ2dnUU7-UvNnZ2d@giganews.com>,
jdangus@att.net says...
I used to be a service manage at a sales and service tool
store.

People would bring in a Generac for repair.
They would NOT give us service information or sell us parts.



The government should make it a law the companies have to sell to
individuals the repair parts and service manuals if they have them.

Years ago I was with a friend at a boat warehouse picking up some parts..
A man wanted to buy a simple part,but they would not sell it to him as
he was not a dealer. We bought the part for the man and sold it to him
at our cost when he met us outside the warehouse.
Most places would have doubled the price to him.

What really hirts is if a big company buys lots of items at high dollars
and the manufactor goes out of busniness and they will not give or sell
you a manual on the equipment when you buy it.


I think Team Amazon is teaching all those "wholesale only" assholes a painful lesson.

And Home Depot. A few years ago the ignition transformer on my Beckett burner quit. So I took a quick ride over to the place I had been buying parts for years for my home and rental properties. I got there just after 1PM (closing time). The asshole behind the counter said they were closed; the only reason he was there was because they were having someone work on their elevator. The fact that it was January and I had no heat didn't move him.

I called my brother figuring he might have a back up (he did) but he told me that Home Depot had a limited supply of oil burner parts. So I went over there and bought a Beckett brand ignitor for less than Asshole Plumbing Supply. I also picked up a couple of filters, pump screen, and points. I made sure to call Asshole Plumbing Supply on Monday and tell him that I wouldn't be buying anything there anymore.

About 5 years ago, my gas furnace at my business had a bad flame rollout thermostat switch. I went to another supply house and they had one, but wouldn't sell it to me because I wasn't a HVAC business. I bought one on Amazon and had it in two days (I had jumped out the rollout switch to get heat). I sent a nice email to the company and told them to pay attention to the big box stores and Amazon lest they have their lunch eaten.

I heard recently that they changed their policy, but now that I'm used to buying from Amazon and HD/Lowes, and paying less, that's what I'm doing now.

 

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

On Mon, 28 Oct 2019 14:56:14 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:

If you can live with a 30 or a 40, Grainger has them for $32. They
might be able to order the 35 but you are out a few weeks I imagine.
What do you have in the transfer equipment at the panel? If you have a
35 protecting it at the panel for overloads, a 40 will adequately
protect the feeder for short circuit.

The generator has been running for 3 days now, where it quit sans warning
earlier today, where a check of the 12VDC car battery showed it was down to
6 volts, so, obviously, the charging circuit wasn't working (there's a lot
of corrosion on the battery terminals, but it starts up the generator just
fine when it's at 12VDC).

I know the battery was fully charged as PG&E had given us a day's notice,
so I had charged it for that day until the power went out 3 days ago.

The 8KWH generator has been burning propane at about 50 gallons a day (near
as I can tell from the gauge on the propane tank, which isn't all that easy
to read accurately), and where I used a jumper cable from a nearby vehicle
to debug that it was the battery and then, once debugged, I swapped in a
second car battery to keep the electricity going today (and put the dead
battery on a charger):
<https://i.postimg.cc/c1Q5NF6n/generac-battery-charge.jpg>

Looking inside each of the two transfer panels, one for each half of the
house, they seem to be listed as 100 Amp service each based on this wording
on the outside of the Generac part number
<https://i.postimg.cc/MKnVYxgH/transfer13.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/V6L4ZxZw/transfer07.jpg>

Where there are 4 fuses in each of those two panels, all of which are
supposed to be the "uniquely sized" 600 Volt 2 Amp Buss SBS-2 fast acting
fuses, where it currently has 4 and 5 amp Buss BBS-4 and Buss BBS-5 600
Volt fast acting fuses (which came with the transfer panel when I bought
it) but where the 2AMP SBS-2 fuses have a similar (but not as bad) sourcing
problem as does the circuit breaker.
<https://i.postimg.cc/TYq0GY8x/transfer03.jpg>

This is, I think, OEM but based only on Ebay listings, which may be wrong:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/MGb704vW/buss-sbs-2-600-V-fast-acting-fuse.jpg>
This is original that the electrician originally put in the transfer panel:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/bNPYzVgc/bussmanfuses01.jpg>

The house is 200 Amp service, where my understanding is that each half of
the setup handles 100 Amps, but where I'm not sure why the original
electrician put in 4amp and 5amp fuses when online, I see pictures of all
sorts of sizes, but some of them are 2Amp fuses, so it's hard to tell
what's the correct fuse amperage.
<https://i.postimg.cc/N0wQX4Jm/transfer02.jpg>

I don't see anything else inside the transfer panel that is fused.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Hx4VqSLt/Generac-Transfer-Switch-Exploded-Diagram-9067-9-16345-Page-18.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/1XFTVs7N/Generac-Transfer-Switch-Wiring-Diagram-9067-9-16345-Page-15.jpg>

Although the generator has the 35-amp circuit breaker & a fuse:
<https://i.postimg.cc/wMg9DggX/Generac-Generator-Wiriing-Diagram-9067-9-16345-Page-14.jpg>
Which is a typical 15-amp fuse shown in item #10 below:
<https://i.postimg.cc/qq326cBh/Generac-Control-Panel-9067-9-16345-Page-19.jpg>

--
Usenet is a great resource for homeowners with electrical problems to fix!

 

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

On Mon, 28 Oct 2019 15:42:59 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:

That brings up another point though - were you not aware MONTHS ago
that the genset was not functioning properly? I seem to remember you
making a half-assed attempt at getting information about it WAYYYY
back. The time to find out it needed that breaker , and sourcing it at
leisure was THEN.

Hi Clare,

You have a good memory, but, not quite good enough (I say that in good
humor, as you do have a good memory, as do I on such things.)

Fact is, it's not that simple, where the problem is always in DEBUGGING.
<https://i.postimg.cc/V6L4ZxZw/transfer07.jpg>

Last time, I thought the problem was the relays, which, you'll see in this
picture, were each labeled and then swapped (since the two 100Amp transfer
panels are duplicates), and yet, they failed the same both ways.
<https://i.postimg.cc/kgm2pFDw/generac-transfer-panel-solenoid.jpg>

We also didn't know if the problem was in the actual transfer solenoid,
which, I must add, for one, I had to manually flip it, even this time, but
with some things broken, I'm not sure if that's a first order or second
order effect.

Thirdly, there were two fuses missing, where I replaced those two fuses in
the interim.

And, fourthly, while I'm sure there is a testing sequence, you never really
get to test these things under real world circumstances until power goes
out.

Luckily, out here, in California, we don't have to wait long for THAT to
happen, now do we?

In short, it wasn't until I did all that and the power went out, that I
realized it was something else, which is when I finally took the breaker
out and realized it was half broken (it doesn't LOOK bad from the outside,
but it's bad in the inside).

Who knew?
Not me.
Until recently.

And, I only found out today, after three days running on propane,
that the battery was at 6volts, where who knows WHY the battery isn't
charging when the generator is running...
<https://i.postimg.cc/c1Q5NF6n/generac-battery-charge.jpg>

Luckily, Rube Goldberg borrowed a car, to jump the generator, and then
another battery to use to run the generator, and then with the power in the
house, I'm charging the original battery that has been on the generator for
the past 3 days due to the PG&E mismanagement outage.

 

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

On Wed, 30 Oct 2019 04:47:15 -0000 (UTC), Arlen _G_ Holder wrote:

Look at "Panel, 6-32 mounting type"

You sir, are a veritable genius!
Thank you for the purposefully helpful advice which you could only have
found by extensive searches since nobody else knew of that but you!

More to come!

UPDATE:
o SUGGESTION: SAVE THIS POST (IT CONTAINS VALUABLE SOURCES!)

This thread contains a TESTED WORKING PROCESS for hard-to-find parts
o At the best price & stock possible, in quantities of 1, for homeowners

Being a good Usenet citizen, not only do I put energy into providing tons
of detail within the thread, but I always try to summarize the solution, so
that others coming here, in the foreseeable future, benefit from our
efforts), where this summary will reside in the permanent web-searchable
archives:

This summary will reside in these permanent web-searchable archives:
o <http://tinyurl.com/alt-home-repair>
o <http://tinyurl.com/sci-electronics-repair>
o <http://tinyurl.com/alt-engineering-electrical

And in these permanent web searchable Usenet archives:
o <http://alt.home.repair.narkive.com>
o <http://sci.electronics.repair.narkive.com>
o <http://alt.engineering.electrical.narkive.com>

The goal was to source "things like" the following part:
<https://i.postimg.cc/ryNkQQvY/breaker03.jpg>
o #5, Generac Part Number #74969, 35 Amp Circuit Breaker
<https://i.postimg.cc/qq326cBh/Generac-Control-Panel-9067-9-16345-Page-19.jpg>

Home box stores were an instant fail, where those of you in the know would
have known that before I even attempted Lowes, Ace, Home Depot, etc.

Also, the local electrical supply shops (roughly about dozen I called in
the Silicon Valley), were (rather shockingly) completely clueless how to
obtain the part in stock (that was, perhaps, my biggest shock).
o AlexanderElec: 831-457-3911 (left message)
o BayPower: 408-998-2980 (they don't stock, and can't order)
o CupertinoElec: 408-808-8000 (don't deal with individuals)
o Eckerman: 831-252-0987 (doesn't have any resource I don't have)
o EdgesElec: 408-293-5818 (don't stock, don't order)
o NicoElec: 408-446-4141 (left message)
o Pfeiffer: 408-436-8523 (they don't do residential)
o SprigElec: 408-298-3134 (transferred to sales, left message)

Generac doesn't normally recommend suppliers, but after three calls, I
found one second-level tech who privately suggested these suppliers:
o <http://onlinecomponents.com> $ 92.45 (stock situation unknown)
o <http://jackssmallengines.com> $137.07 (stock situation unknown)
o <http://ordertree.com $233.45> (stock situation unknown)

Searching on the net by Generac part number isn't as useful as searching by
the original part number, which, luckily, was still (barely) visible:
<https://i.postimg.cc/vmTTdpdB/breaker02.jpg>

AA2-B0-24-635-5D1-C
1. A -> Series A, 277VAC, 80VDC, 10,000 cycles
2. A -> one handle per pole
3. 2 -> two poles
4. B -> series trip current
5. 0 -> w/o aux
6. 24 -> medium delay (04), 50/60Hz
7. 635 -> 35 amp, trip at 43 amp
8. 5 -> bolt-on rear connections 10-32 bolts (very important)
9. D -> labeling is ON/OFF in white, everything else black
10. 1 -> 6-32 x 0.195 inches
11. C -> UL approved, CSA certified

o Amazon
<https://www.amazon.com/Carling-Technologies-AA2-B0-24-635-5D1-C-Circuit-Breaker/dp/B00FV1ZJ7M>
o FusesUnlimited
<https://www.fusesunlimited.com/circuit-protection-detail/carling/aa2-b0-24-635-5d1-c>
o Walmart
<https://www.walmart.com/ip/Carling-Technologies-AA2-B0-24-635-5D1-C-Circuit-Breaker/213199082>

Carling, themselves part of a huge conglomerate, had a lost of a score or
so of local "recommended distributors", again, only a very few of which had
the part in stock who would sell in quantities of 1, but at a high price -
but it turns out there's a better way (see trick later in this post) to
bypass that score of parts distributor phone calls.

Carling AA2-B0-24-635-5D1-C 35-amp circuit breaker
o Carling: https://www.carlingtech.com/findarep?location=243
o Bridge: 408-335-6700 (you need to pick a person & leave a msg)
o Avnet: 408-435-3500 (4-5 weeks lead time, $86.42)
o Bates: 408-400-9586 (the number has been disconnected)
o Digikey: 800-344-4539 (global sales only, min quantity is 20 parts)
o Master: 408-970-8090 (not in stock locally, two weeks, $92.45)
o Mouser: 817-804-3888 (not in stock, can send quote)
o Newark: 800-463-9275 (not in stock, minimum order is 2)
o Sager: 408-544-9500 (not in stock locally, can be ordered, $71.48)
o TTI: 510-668-0830 (not in stock, can only order in bulk)

Thanks to the purposefully helpful suggestion by gfretwell, I called
Grainger who put me in touch with technical support who told me that they
definitely do not carry and cannot purchase the "right" circuit breaker,
but that the 40-amp circuit breaker might work in a pinch.

The critical items, of course, are the type of rear connection, which is
what's different in the two Grainger alternatives, but which isn't obvious
in the Grainger photos because the photos don't show the all important rear
of the circuit breaker (spade type tend to vibrate off in generator
applications, I'm told, and anyway, it's an unnecessary retrofit).

The 40-amp Carling breaker that Grainger does carry, as gfretwell astutely
noted though, is pretty damn close (far better than the SquareD Q0B235,
which was also a purposefully helpful suggestion that was posed prior).

<https://www.grainger.com/category/electrical/power-management-circuit-protection-and-distribution/distribution-circuit-breakers-and-temporary-power-solutions/circuit-breakers/panel-mount-circuit-breakers>

Circuit Breaker, Magnetic Circuit Breaker Type, Toggle Switch Type, Number of Poles: 2
Grainger # 10C608 Mfr. Model # BA2-B0-34-640-521-C Catalog Page # 201 UNSPSC # 39121601
<https://www.grainger.com/product/CARLING-TECHNOLOGIES-Circuit-Breaker-10C608>

Circuit Breaker, Magnetic Circuit Breaker Type, Toggle Switch Type, Number of Poles: 2
Grainger # 3XC74 Mfr. Model # CA2-BO-34-640-111-C Catalog Page # 201 UNSPSC # 39121602
<https://www.grainger.com/product/CARLING-TECHNOLOGIES-Circuit-Breaker-3XC74>

I had never called Grainger before (always assuming they're the most
expensive), but, at $40 anyway, they are actually the cheapest, by far, but
they too didn't have the right part.

In the end, the BEST solution (if we don't go with the alternatives),
is this URL which was kindly supplied to be by one of the Carling
distributors (who said it's what _he uses_ to source _his_ parts!):
<http://eciaauthorized.com>

*That's a neat trick!*
o *My advice is to _SAVE THAT URL_*!

(That one URL is better than almost everything attempted to date to obtain
the part in stock at the best price possible today.)

BTW, Bob Engelhardt, who purposefully helpfully and very kindly suggested
the SquareD Q0B235 was on to something when he noted that the original part
clearly failed its 10,000 cycle promise, as that breaker couldn't possibly
have had more than a few score cycles in its short lifetime, given that
it's not a part you generally touch unless you're working on the generator
and want to disconnect it from the house (where you're more likely to just
pull the 15-amp generator fuse on the front panel to prevent a start):
<https://i.postimg.cc/63Z0x60t/generac-circuit-breaker-panel.jpg>

That 15-amp fuse is item #10 in this Generac exploded diagram):
<https://i.postimg.cc/qq326cBh/Generac-Control-Panel-9067-9-16345-Page-19.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/Zqf00Y5K/Generac-Generator-Wiriing-Diagram-9067-9-16345-Page-14.jpg>

The part is on order, thanks to purposefully helpful folks on this
repair-related group.

--
Usenet is a great resource for homeowners with electrical problems to fix!

The adult audience will appreciate that I never responded to the incessant
childish trolling by the likes of Snit (aka Fox's Mercantile) and Peter
Wieck (aka pjfw@aol.com) both of whom (and common trolls like them)
are on the permanent record (for their grandchildren, perhaps to read) as
only posting to satisfy their own childish amusement needs, sadly.

 

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 11/1/19 10:40 PM, Arlen _G_ Holder wrote:
> o SUGGESTION: SAVE THIS POST (IT CONTAINS VALUABLE SOURCES!)

No, it contains your usual useless going on and on and on
about something most people don't give a fuck about.


--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com