Where are ebooks?

[Bruce Varley]

Ebooks such as Kindle seem to be conspicuously absent, or at least low key
in this country. Harvey Normal website doesn't list them, which has to be
significant. Is there a specific reason who they aren't more widely touted?

 

[David L. Jones]

Bruce Varley wrote:

Ebooks such as Kindle seem to be conspicuously absent, or at least
low key in this country. Harvey Normal website doesn't list them,
which has to be significant. Is there a specific reason who they
aren't more widely touted?

I believe the Kindle reader only works in the US through its own network.

Dave.

--
---------------------------------------------
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.alternatezone.com/eevblog/

 

[Keithr]

Bruce Varley wrote:

Ebooks such as Kindle seem to be conspicuously absent, or at least low key
in this country. Harvey Normal website doesn't list them, which has to be
significant. Is there a specific reason who they aren't more widely touted?


Copyright on the books. I believe that Australia "Belongs" to the UK

rather than the US for book copyright.

 

[Mark Harriss]

Bruce Varley wrote:

Ebooks such as Kindle seem to be conspicuously absent, or at least low key
in this country. Harvey Normal website doesn't list them, which has to be
significant. Is there a specific reason who they aren't more widely touted?

That's cos you can't watch football on an e-book reader yet

 

[F Murtz]

Mark Harriss wrote:

Bruce Varley wrote:
Ebooks such as Kindle seem to be conspicuously absent, or at least low
key in this country. Harvey Normal website doesn't list them, which
has to be significant. Is there a specific reason who they aren't more
widely touted?



That's cos you can't watch football on an e-book reader yet
But you can read books on some things you can watch foot ball on

 

[Davo]

KR wrote:

On Jun 10, 8:27 pm, "Bruce Varley" <bxvar...@weastnet.com.au> wrote:
Ebooks such as Kindle seem to be conspicuously absent, or at least low key
in this country. Harvey Normal website doesn't list them, which has to be
significant. Is there a specific reason who they aren't more widely touted?


I would expect a bookshop (either on or offline) to be a better place
to look rather than Harvey Norman for something like this.

problems with it are:

The expense, the current model Kindle is a whopping $489 US, and the books are not exactly a huge saving over the "real" book. Its a bit over the top when you can get a laptop or PDA for a similar price that can easily do the same job, and many other things too. (or use the one you already have)

Proprietary system, the books are only available from Amazon, and in a proprietary format rather than industry standard publishing formats like PDF. (which is understandable to prevent copying). This is another BIG dis-incentive, as where do you go for files if Amazon goes to the wall, or jacks the price up to the moon ? (Anything single-source supply now is a HUGE risk, with the world economic situation - which is only just getting started) and/or when the device fails, taking your expensive book purchases with it ?
Maybe only yanks are gullible enough to accept a deal like this ?

Maybe I am wrong - but E-Books - that have been around for years -
don't seem to have made much of an impact either ? People seem to
prefer printed books still ?

Proprietary systems with other consumer media have never been a
success, Music, movies, software for example - for the above reasons,
as well as excessive costs.
Filesharing is probably the most popular method now for almost
everything in digital format, like it or hate it. The only thing that
has slowed "print book filesharing" is probably the substantial labour
involved in scanning and preparing the 100's of pages of a typical
novel.

Out of interest a quick search of torrent sites revealed several
"cracked" kindle files, and a program that looks like it is used to
decode kindle files you already have (didn't download any of them to
check as have no use for them).

I downloaded a free program for my Nokia phone which enables me to read
eBooks. In the last few months I've read The Iliad, The Odyssey, King
Arthur and a few other books, all downloaded free off the net. When I
have a spare moment or I'm waiting for something I whip out my phone and
have a read. Presently I'm reading Moby Dick.

 

[KR]

On Jun 10, 8:27 pm, "Bruce Varley" <bxvar...@weastnet.com.au> wrote:

Ebooks such as Kindle seem to be conspicuously absent, or at least low key
in this country. Harvey Normal website doesn't list them, which has to be
significant. Is there a specific reason who they aren't more widely touted?

I would expect a bookshop (either on or offline) to be a better place
to look rather than Harvey Norman for something like this.

problems with it are:

The expense, the current model Kindle is a whopping $489 US, and the books are not exactly a huge saving over the "real" book. Its a bit over the top when you can get a laptop or PDA for a similar price that can easily do the same job, and many other things too. (or use the one you already have)

Proprietary system, the books are only available from Amazon, and in a proprietary format rather than industry standard publishing formats like PDF. (which is understandable to prevent copying). This is another BIG dis-incentive, as where do you go for files if Amazon goes to the wall, or jacks the price up to the moon ? (Anything single-source supply now is a HUGE risk, with the world economic situation - which is only just getting started) and/or when the device fails, taking your expensive book purchases with it ?
Maybe only yanks are gullible enough to accept a deal like this ?

Maybe I am wrong - but E-Books - that have been around for years -
don't seem to have made much of an impact either ? People seem to
prefer printed books still ?

Proprietary systems with other consumer media have never been a
success, Music, movies, software for example - for the above reasons,
as well as excessive costs.
Filesharing is probably the most popular method now for almost
everything in digital format, like it or hate it. The only thing that
has slowed "print book filesharing" is probably the substantial labour
involved in scanning and preparing the 100's of pages of a typical
novel.

Out of interest a quick search of torrent sites revealed several
"cracked" kindle files, and a program that looks like it is used to
decode kindle files you already have (didn't download any of them to
check as have no use for them).

 

[David L. Jones]

KR wrote:

On Jun 10, 8:27 pm, "Bruce Varley" <bxvar...@weastnet.com.au> wrote:
Ebooks such as Kindle seem to be conspicuously absent, or at least
low key
in this country. Harvey Normal website doesn't list them, which has
to be
significant. Is there a specific reason who they aren't more widely
touted?


I would expect a bookshop (either on or offline) to be a better place
to look rather than Harvey Norman for something like this.

problems with it are:

The expense, the current model Kindle is a whopping $489 US, and the
books are not exactly a huge saving over the "real" book. Its a bit
over the top when you can get a laptop or PDA for a similar price
that can easily do the same job, and many other things too. (or use
the one you already have)

Proprietary system, the books are only available from Amazon, and in
a proprietary format rather than industry standard publishing
formats like PDF. (which is understandable to prevent copying). This
is another BIG dis-incentive, as where do you go for files if Amazon
goes to the wall, or jacks the price up to the moon ? (Anything
single-source supply now is a HUGE risk, with the world economic
situation - which is only just getting started) and/or when the
device fails, taking your expensive book purchases with it ?
Maybe only yanks are gullible enough to accept a deal like this ?

Maybe I am wrong - but E-Books - that have been around for years -
don't seem to have made much of an impact either ? People seem to
prefer printed books still ?

That is obvious from the lack of penetration (bording on zero) eBooks have
gained regardless of what format or form they have taken. eBooks are a very
niche market and will be for a very long time to come compared to paper
books.
Also, most people would rather use their iPhone with its small screen than
carry around a seperate bigger purpose designed Kindle (you can get a Kindle
reader for the iPhone).
Kindle 2 is getting closer to the digital book dream, but still no cigar.

Don't forget Audio books, they are quite popular and they have had a nice
(albeit small) market for a long time.
Computer voice versions will never match a well spoken audio book,
particually if it's the original author.

Dave.
--
---------------------------------------------
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.alternatezone.com/eevblog/

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2009-06-11, David L. Jones <altzone@gmail.com> wrote:

Don't forget Audio books, they are quite popular and they have had a nice
(albeit small) market for a long time.
Computer voice versions will never match a well spoken audio book,
particually if it's the original author.
---------------------------------------

There may be exceptions:

http://www.learnoutloud.com/Catalog/Science/Astronomy/A-Brief-History-of-Time/144#

 

[KR]

On Jun 11, 6:29 pm, KR <kenreed1...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Jun 10, 8:27 pm, "Bruce Varley" <bxvar...@weastnet.com.au> wrote:

Ebookssuch as Kindle seem to be conspicuously absent, or at least low key
in this country. Harvey Normal website doesn't list them, which has to be
significant. Is there a specific reason who they aren't more widely touted?

I would expect a bookshop (either on or offline) to be a better place
to look rather than Harvey Norman for something like this.

problems with it are:

The expense, the current model Kindle is a whopping $489 US, and the books are not exactly a huge saving over the "real" book.  Its a bit over the top when you can get a laptop or PDA for a similar price that can easily do the same job, and many other things too. (or use the one you already have)
Proprietary system, the books are only available from Amazon, and in a proprietary format rather than industry standard publishing formats like PDF.. (which is understandable to prevent copying). This is another BIG dis-incentive, as where do you go for files if Amazon goes to the wall, or jacks the price up to the moon ?  (Anything single-source supply now is a HUGE risk, with the world economic situation - which is only just getting started) and/or when the device fails, taking your expensive book purchases with it ?

Maybe only yanks are gullible enough to accept a deal like this ?

Maybe I am wrong - but E-Books - that have been around for years -
don't seem to have made much of an impact either ? People seem to
prefer printed books still ?

Proprietary systems with other consumer media have never been a
success, Music, movies, software for example - for the above reasons,
as well as excessive costs.
Filesharing is probably the most popular method now for almost
everything in digital format, like it or hate it.  The only thing that
has slowed "print book filesharing" is probably the substantial labour
involved in scanning and preparing the 100's of pages of a typical
novel.

Out of interest a quick search of torrent sites revealed several
"cracked" kindle files, and a program that looks like it is used to
decode kindle files you already have (didn't download any of them to
check as have no use for them).
-------------------------------------

This is another good reason to avoid any digital media like "kindle"
or similar where you
don't have in your actual possession an unencrypted (non-proprietary)
form of things such as books, music or ANY important material
whatsover.

(The other issue of course - with proprietary devices/content like the
Kindle is that if the device is discontinued, unsupported and
eventually fails, your expensive book/music library is GONE.

Another concern is the "sanitising" of parts of existing books at a
later date. This could also possibly be done by hackers, or simply in
the name of rabid PC.

This sort of move listed in the article link also raises concerns
about lists or databases being
kept of people purchasing "controversial" texts or books (in any
format) that could expose them to potential persecution at any later
date.


http://www.pcworld.com/article/168654/amazon_removes_ebooks_from_kindle_store_revokes_ownership.html

---------------
Amazon Removes E-Books From Kindle Store, Revokes Ownership
Melissa J. Perenson, PC World

Jul 18, 2009 10:08 am

Today, Amazon removed George Orwell's 1984 and Animal Farm from its
Kindle e-book store. The company also went ahead and removed any
digital trace of the books, too-striking them from both users' digital
lockers and from Kindle devices. This disturbing, Orwellian move
underscores how, in spite of comments otherwise, a purchase in the
digital realm can't be compared to physical ownership of content.

I've long considered digital more ephemeral than the physical. It is
why I still, for artists I enjoy, purchase the physical CD of an
album. It is why I prefer to purchase DVDs and Blu-ray Discs, as
opposed to relying on the possibly here-today, gone-tomorrow offerings
of electronic distribution. Why my advocacy of the physical? It
certainly isn't because I enjoy storing it, that much I can tell you.
It's because I have access to it when I want it, where I want it. I
don't have to worry about content going out-of-print, nor do I need to
keep track of where I have it backed up, in case my hard drive fails.

I've heard one set of theories that posit that the world of digital
distribution could theoretically offer unlimited content, for
unlimited periods, simply because of the lack of physical distribution
costs (production, packaging, shipping, shelf-space, and so on). The
other theory, however, is the one that's omnipresent, but more sharply
in focus in a tough economy such as the one we're in now. That theory
is governed by the basic tenets of business, which look at profit and
bottom line. If content isn't generating revenue, then why should a
digital distributor maintain the server space to keep up the data,
even if all it takes up are more bits and bytes?

Back to the Amazon example. What Amazon did with the Orwell books is
different from the above concerns, but it dovetails into the same
question of the permanence of digital ownership. Yes, Amazon refunded
the money for the books -- but that's not the point. When one
purchases something, one acquires the item, and assumes ownership of
that item. That item is there.

This unusual maneuver, which Amazon says occurred because Orwell's
publisher changed its mind about offering the electronic version of
these titles, is all the more unsettling simply because readers
already purchased the books and had their ownership of the item
revoked. In the Orwell book case, the item was simply no longer there
-- it was as if those Kindle users never owned it.

The implications of the Orwell case are highly unsettling -- for any
type of copy-protected content, but especially for printed content.
What happens if a controversial book comes out, and a publisher
decides to remove it from distribution? Or, a book is banned for
whatever reason -- as happened in parts of the world with The Satanic
Verses? Neither is a common scenario, but both are examples of the
control we, as owners, can potentially lose over the content we've
purchased in the digital realm. With physical content, no one, even a
disgruntled copyright owner, can take away what you've paid for.

A final thought: If, in this digital realm, we're not truly purchasing
content, but rather "borrowing" it at a set price, and according to
someone else's changing rulebook, we as consumers we deserve to know
this up front, in clear and obvious language (unlike Amazon's clear
references to "buying" books, and all the assumptions of ownership
that go with buying books). If the rules have changed on us, we
deserve to know.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/168654/amazon_removes_ebooks_from_kindle_store_revokes_ownership.html

 

[David Segall]

KR <kenreed1999@gmail.com> wrote:

Today, Amazon removed George Orwell's 1984 and Animal Farm from its
Kindle e-book store. The company also went ahead and removed any
digital trace of the books, too-striking them from both users' digital
lockers and from Kindle devices.

Is it true or did you read it on the Internet?
<http://www.amazon.com/Animal-Farm/dp/B001O1O7QC>

 

[Davo]

David Segall wrote:

KR <kenreed1999@gmail.com> wrote:

Today, Amazon removed George Orwell's 1984 and Animal Farm from its
Kindle e-book store. The company also went ahead and removed any
digital trace of the books, too-striking them from both users' digital
lockers and from Kindle devices.

Is it true or did you read it on the Internet?
http://www.amazon.com/Animal-Farm/dp/B001O1O7QC

Isn't 1984 a history book now?

 

[terryc]

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 03:00:39 +0800, Davo wrote:

Isn't 1984 a history book now?

Nope, a classic and one of those books you must read for your development
as a rational, full human being for the concepts it discusses.

--

Great advances in Debian Linux; post a bug report and get spam in three
days.

 

[KR]

On Jul 19, 5:00 am, Davo <D...@gmail.com> wrote:

David Segall wrote:
KR <kenreed1...@gmail.com> wrote:

Today, Amazon removed George Orwell's 1984 and Animal Farm from its
Kindle e-book store. The company also went ahead and removed any
digital trace of the books, too-striking them from both users' digital
lockers and from Kindle devices.

Is it true or did you read it on the Internet?
http://www.amazon.com/Animal-Farm/dp/B001O1O7QC

Isn't 1984 a history book now?

Its more like a commentary on modern western politics

 

[KR]

On Jul 19, 12:13 pm, KR <kenreed1...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Jul 19, 5:00 am, Davo <D...@gmail.com> wrote:

David Segall wrote:
KR <kenreed1...@gmail.com> wrote:

Today, Amazon removed George Orwell's 1984 and Animal Farm from its
Kindle e-book store. The company also went ahead and removed any
digital trace of the books, too-striking them from both users' digital
lockers and from Kindle devices.

Is it true or did you read it on the Internet?
http://www.amazon.com/Animal-Farm/dp/B001O1O7QC

Isn't 1984 a history book now?

Its more like a commentary on modern western politics

 

[KR]

On Jul 19, 11:37 am, terryc <newssevenspam-s...@woa.com.au> wrote:

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 03:00:39 +0800, Davo wrote:

Isn't 1984 a history book now?

Nope, a classic and one of those books you must read for your development
as a rational, full human being for the concepts it discusses.

I agree 100%

"Brave new world" by Aldous Huxley is another excellent read while on
this subject.

http://www.huxley.net/

--

Great advances in Debian Linux; post a bug report and get spam in three
days.