What exactly is an LED TV set in the UK?

  • Thread starter Geoffrey S. Mendelson
  • Start date
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Geoffrey S. Mendelson

Guest
Following up our previous discussion, in light of the recent (yesterday?)
Pringles decision, what exactly can and can not be sold as an LED TV in
the UK?

For those not following the case, Pringles were excempted from VAT (sales tax
is the closest thing in the US) because while snacks such as potato crisps
(potato chips in the US) are taxed, Pringles are less than 50% potato and
therefore for tax purposes are cakes, which were not taxable.

The judge decided that if it looked like a potato chip and was sold as a
potato chip, it was for tax purposes a potato chip, no matter what it
contanined.

So based on that decsision, which now establishes a legal precedent, what
role does an LED have to play in the operation and display of a television
set in order for it to be an "LED Television"?

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
 
Geoffrey S. Mendelson <gsm@mendelson.com> wrote in message
news:slrnh2ch2t.8l4.gsm@cable.mendelson.com...
Following up our previous discussion, in light of the recent (yesterday?)
Pringles decision, what exactly can and can not be sold as an LED TV in
the UK?

For those not following the case, Pringles were excempted from VAT (sales
tax
is the closest thing in the US) because while snacks such as potato crisps
(potato chips in the US) are taxed, Pringles are less than 50% potato and
therefore for tax purposes are cakes, which were not taxable.

The judge decided that if it looked like a potato chip and was sold as a
potato chip, it was for tax purposes a potato chip, no matter what it
contanined.

So based on that decsision, which now establishes a legal precedent, what
role does an LED have to play in the operation and display of a television
set in order for it to be an "LED Television"?

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
Click to expand...

It will be easier when OLED comes in proper. Then like traditional CRT
displays, light source and info source are intimately combined together.

Anyone happen to know, diagonal for diagonal, how much better, if any, OLED
set total unit power consumption will be over CRT set ?


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/
 
"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:h05n87$q2e$1@news.eternal-september.org...
Geoffrey S. Mendelson <gsm@mendelson.com> wrote in message
news:slrnh2ch2t.8l4.gsm@cable.mendelson.com...
Following up our previous discussion, in light of the recent (yesterday?)
Pringles decision, what exactly can and can not be sold as an LED TV in
the UK?

For those not following the case, Pringles were excempted from VAT (sales
tax
is the closest thing in the US) because while snacks such as potato
crisps
(potato chips in the US) are taxed, Pringles are less than 50% potato and
therefore for tax purposes are cakes, which were not taxable.

The judge decided that if it looked like a potato chip and was sold as a
potato chip, it was for tax purposes a potato chip, no matter what it
contanined.

So based on that decsision, which now establishes a legal precedent, what
role does an LED have to play in the operation and display of a
television
set in order for it to be an "LED Television"?

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM


It will be easier when OLED comes in proper. Then like traditional CRT
displays, light source and info source are intimately combined together.

Anyone happen to know, diagonal for diagonal, how much better, if any,
OLED
set total unit power consumption will be over CRT set ?


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/



The OLEDs will have much lower power consumption as they function without a
Click to expand...
backlight of any type. I don't know if there's been any progress in the
lifetime issue, the blue LEDs have a very short lifetime compared to the red
& green LEDs.
You can get some SMALL OLEDs to mess with from 4D systems or sparkfun,
depending on where you live.
 
When I was first specing out OLED displays for a handheld device, they were
rated at about 10k hours before loosing half their brightness for red and
green, and 2k for blue. Last I checked, they were up to about 20k for red
and green and 10k for blue.
Click to expand...
Just out of curiosity, what causes LEDs to reduce in brightness over
time? I can understand why florescent lamps and white LEDs fade, but
not pure color LEDs. Anyone know?
 
greenpjs@neo.rr.com wrote:
When I was first specing out OLED displays for a handheld device, they were
rated at about 10k hours before loosing half their brightness for red and
green, and 2k for blue. Last I checked, they were up to about 20k for red
and green and 10k for blue.


Just out of curiosity, what causes LEDs to reduce in brightness over
time? I can understand why florescent lamps and white LEDs fade, but
not pure color LEDs. Anyone know?
Heat causes impurity's to diffuse in semiconductors.
Click to expand...
More heat:more diffusion.
To much diffusion: A broken semicunductor.
 
att2 wrote:
The OLEDs will have much lower power consumption as they function without a
backlight of any type. I don't know if there's been any progress in the
lifetime issue, the blue LEDs have a very short lifetime compared to the red
& green LEDs.
You can get some SMALL OLEDs to mess with from 4D systems or sparkfun,
depending on where you live.
Click to expand...
When I was first specing out OLED displays for a handheld device, they were
rated at about 10k hours before loosing half their brightness for red and
green, and 2k for blue. Last I checked, they were up to about 20k for red
and green and 10k for blue.

The lifetime issue depends upon the level you drive them at. If you run them
at full brightness, you will begin to notice a shift away from blue (to yellow)
quickly. If you run them at half brightness and slowly crank up the blue to
balance, they will last a lot longer.

I guess one of the ways to make them last longer would be to use a pattern
that has more blue, such as red-green-blue-blue, or red-blue-green-blue, or
something similar. Then you could run the blue at half level and still have
it white and a resonable combined life time.

In the end, I'm not sure it matters. Once the newness fades and development
costs are paid off the cost will be so low that you will be able to buy
a "raw" screen in a roll, unroll it and slide it into your TV set or computer
monitor frame.


Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
 
In article <slrnh2dcta.5an.gsm@cable.mendelson.com>,
Geoffrey S. Mendelson <gsm@mendelson.com> wrote:
In the end, I'm not sure it matters. Once the newness fades and
development costs are paid off the cost will be so low that you will be
able to buy a "raw" screen in a roll, unroll it and slide it into your
TV set or computer monitor frame.
Click to expand...
;-) In the same way as it's so easy to buy cheap replacement parts for
modern TVs?

--
*How come you never hear about gruntled employees? *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
 
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> wrote in message
news:slrnh2ch2t.8l4.gsm@cable.mendelson.com...
Following up our previous discussion, in light of the recent (yesterday?)
Pringles decision, what exactly can and can not be sold as an LED TV in
the UK?

For those not following the case, Pringles were excempted from VAT (sales
tax
is the closest thing in the US) because while snacks such as potato crisps
(potato chips in the US) are taxed, Pringles are less than 50% potato and
therefore for tax purposes are cakes, which were not taxable.

The judge decided that if it looked like a potato chip and was sold as a
potato chip, it was for tax purposes a potato chip, no matter what it
contanined.

So based on that decsision, which now establishes a legal precedent, what
role does an LED have to play in the operation and display of a television
set in order for it to be an "LED Television"?

Geoff.
Click to expand...
Which was exactly the point I was making when I started that original
thread. It's an interesting one. Personally, I don't think that Pringles are
in any way similar to a potato crisp (U.S. chip). They have neither the
texture nor taste, but clearly, when P&G invented them, that was what they
were aiming at when they decided on the shape. They are actually 45%
'potato', I believe, which the judge decided was enough to make it
classifiable as a 'potato snack'. In my view, whilst what it is made from
might come from a potato, it is a stretch of the imagination to call
something that has been formed from potato starch or whatever it is that
they extract, a potato snack in the same way that a potato crisp, which is
made from deep fried unprocessed raw potato slices, is. For this reason, I
believe that the judicial decision was wrong. Similarly, just because one of
these 'LED' TV sets contains a large number of LEDs in a matrix behind the
screen, I believe it is wrong to classify it as a "LED TV" because the
primary display medium, is an LCD matrix, not the LED matrix behind it,
whose only purpose is to provide the light source for the LCD panel.

Arfa
 
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