What ever happened to service manuals?

[Fred]

Just wondering if anyone has had trouble getting service manuals for various
electronics or appliances and how you got the info you needed to fix
something.

I remember years ago that all companies were required by law to sell a
service manual or at least enough drawings and parts lists so that a
technician could disassemble and work on their products. I was thinking it
was 7 years? Sure seems like that law no longer being enforced.

In my case, I have an Olympus C700 digital camera, 2-3 years old with a
power drainage problem. This should be a simple matter to isolate but I'm
finding only operator/user info available. None of the camera repair shops
in the LA area even work on this model bcause they have no documentation
from Olympus. I have taken the camera completely apart (yes, and back
together) and it is very simple to do, but not seeing anything obvious, like
burned points, bad contacts, etc., I can't do much else until I know the
test points, etc.

Any advice would be appreciated!

If you don't want to post, just send me an email to
lexmark8792@REMOVETHISyahoo.com

Thanks!

Fred

 

[Kim]

I hate to say it.. this is probably THE most contentious issue on this, and
other newsgroups. We are entering a "Brave Mew World" of electronic sales
where $$$.$$ is the absolute bottom line.
Its much cheaper, to have 1 or 2 repair depots fully equipped to send items
to, then provide hundreds of repair depots with spare parts, and
documentation. BUT its even cheaper to manufacture a item so cheaply, with a
500% mark-up (as is the case with your camera) that its far cheaper to throw
out the unit, and send the customer a brand new unit, as long as its under
warranty.
We can bitch , complain, flame our little hearts out, but that's the
reality. As long as 90% of consumers decide on purchases strictly by how
much it costs when initially purchased, then manufacturers simply cannot
support a network of repair depots, along with the documentation to support
those depots.
What's even worse, is that with rebranding, most manufacturers don't even
know what the hell is inside of the cabinets of what they sell.
Yah Yah...I know...customer service...loyalty...if they fix it , Ill be a
customer of their product for life......they'll make money in the long run,
I swear!, costs more to get a new customer, then to keep a old one
.....yadah...yadah.
Well, manufacturers are realizing that a large percentage of the population
are repurchasing items long before they die. In other words, the average
cellphone, camera, computer, TV, is being replaced long before it dies,
strictly because its not the current "IN" model, and its usually replaced by
whatever is on sale that week, LONG before repair comes into the picture.
Believe me, I have worked for MANY years in a large consumer electronics
company, and if repair depots made even $1.00 on a repair they would
probably do it. Considering a hour or two of US technician labour costs
more than the manufacturing of the entire item overseas, than the technician
is as dead as a Dodo, as far as most manufacturers are concerned.
As well, believe it or not, lawyers also come into the equation as well. In
our current litigious society, supplying a untrained customer with a
schematic for a item, that they subsequently open, and fry themselves to
death with, is also a problem.
I actually have first hand experience with this. Believe it or not, a
customer recently came to be begging for a easily-replaceable on off switch
for a kitchen appliance. Although it was against company policy, I took pity
on this guy that said that he could not afford to bring the unit it to be
repaired, and besides, he assured me that he knew much about electronics
(considering that all you had to do was replace 2 wires, it seemed like a
safe bet), so I sold him the switch. The next time I saw the guy was in
court. Somehow he screwed it up, shorted something out, the unit caught
fire, and burned a large chunk of his kitchen.
Long story short, our company was forced to pay a large chunk of money to
fight a court case. Needless to say, from now on, NOBODY short of the Pope
gets part, part listings, or manuals for ANY of our products ...PERIOD!.
Kim


"Fred" <testing@testing1212mouse.com> wrote in message
news:ByvRc.5554$114.3888@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

Just wondering if anyone has had trouble getting service manuals for
various
electronics or appliances and how you got the info you needed to fix
something.

I remember years ago that all companies were required by law to sell a
service manual or at least enough drawings and parts lists so that a
technician could disassemble and work on their products. I was thinking it
was 7 years? Sure seems like that law no longer being enforced.

In my case, I have an Olympus C700 digital camera, 2-3 years old with a
power drainage problem. This should be a simple matter to isolate but I'm
finding only operator/user info available. None of the camera repair shops
in the LA area even work on this model bcause they have no documentation
from Olympus. I have taken the camera completely apart (yes, and back
together) and it is very simple to do, but not seeing anything obvious,
like
burned points, bad contacts, etc., I can't do much else until I know the
test points, etc.

Any advice would be appreciated!

If you don't want to post, just send me an email to
lexmark8792@REMOVETHISyahoo.com

Thanks!

Fred

 

[Fred]

"Michael A. Covington" <look@ai.uga.edu.for.address> wrote in message
news:4117894a$1@mustang.speedfactory.net...

I'm afraid we are going to have to face the fact that not everything is
economically repairable. The bottom line is that in many cases, it costs

much less (in labor and materials) to make a new camera (or whatever) than
to repair an old one. This is not a malicious practice of evil business,
it's just a fact of life.

True, but the owner (me) should have the chance to fix it and I don't charge
myself $70/hour. I work for free!! B^)

 

[Fred]

Thanks to a few for their helpful comments, and to the majority for your
pointless, boring academic commentary. %^)

Typical internet discussion -- 5% helpful 95%.

Regardless, I still can't fix my camera.

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 19:55:13 GMT, "Fred"
<testing@testing1212mouse.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

Just wondering if anyone has had trouble getting service manuals for various
electronics or appliances and how you got the info you needed to fix
something.

I remember years ago that all companies were required by law to sell a
service manual or at least enough drawings and parts lists so that a
technician could disassemble and work on their products. I was thinking it
was 7 years? Sure seems like that law no longer being enforced.

Yeah, that's what happens over here as well. It's about time the
useless Greenies got off their backsides and pushed for legislation in
this area. IMO, there should be no excuse for any manufacturer not to
make service manuals available in paperless format via the Internet.
And that means making them available to everybody, not just their
business partners. I detest the condescending, patronising attitude of
manufacturers who pretend that by withholding technical information
they are protecting unqualified consumers from themselves. That should
not be their choice, nor their responsibility, it should be mine.


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"Fred" <testing@testing1212mouse.com> wrote in message
news:ByvRc.5554$114.3888@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

Just wondering if anyone has had trouble getting service manuals for
various
electronics or appliances and how you got the info you needed to fix
something.

I remember years ago that all companies were required by law to sell a
service manual or at least enough drawings and parts lists so that a
technician could disassemble and work on their products. I was
thinking it
was 7 years? Sure seems like that law no longer being enforced.

In my case, I have an Olympus C700 digital camera, 2-3 years old with
a
power drainage problem. This should be a simple matter to isolate but
I'm
finding only operator/user info available. None of the camera repair
shops
in the LA area even work on this model bcause they have no
documentation
from Olympus. I have taken the camera completely apart (yes, and back
together) and it is very simple to do, but not seeing anything
obvious, like
burned points, bad contacts, etc., I can't do much else until I know
the
test points, etc.

Any advice would be appreciated!

Drainage problem isn't an adequate explanation. Some cameras are just
battery hungry. Your best bet is to use Ni-MH rechargeables.

If you don't want to post, just send me an email to
lexmark8792@REMOVETHISyahoo.com

Thanks!

Fred

 

[Ray L. Volts]

I recently built a new desktop pc and needed a new monitor to go with it.
In shopping for a larger flat screen, I called the various manufacturers to
see which ones would sell me a schematic -- I didn't tell them I had not
already purchased their monitor.
A few companies absolutely refused to sell or insisted they had no service
manuals whatsoever. Some companies were willing to part with the service
lit for a bar of gold -- you also have to stand on your head while you beg
for it, then jump thru a few hoops. Though they didn't admit it, I suspect
one might also have to recite a liability disclaimer -- probably while
upside down, so all the blood rushes to your head and you don't really know
what you're reading/signing. =D

I ended up buying an NEC FP2141SB, for several reasons. I read lots of good
reviews on it, it's $50 cheaper than its identical twin Mitsubishi, it's
black to match the rest of my system (hey, aesthetics counts AND.. they
will sell the schematic for it.

I'm still kinda pissed they charge $50 for their manual, while Sony wants
half that for their large monitor service lit.

Apparently, $600+ is still considered a sufficient investment by most manu's
to warrant service lit availability, at least where pc monitors are
concerned.

er, yes.. I know what I'm doing around HV equipment.. tv/stereo tech 20
years, yadda yadda..
That's not to say, however, that if it ever requires servicing I'll be able
to get the parts from them. Hell, I hope it NEVER requires servicing. And
it may not, but at least it's slightly refreshing to know I can get my hands
on the schematic.


"Fred" <testing@testing1212mouse.com> wrote in message
news:ByvRc.5554$114.3888@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

Just wondering if anyone has had trouble getting service manuals for
various
electronics or appliances and how you got the info you needed to fix
something.

I remember years ago that all companies were required by law to sell a
service manual or at least enough drawings and parts lists so that a
technician could disassemble and work on their products. I was thinking it
was 7 years? Sure seems like that law no longer being enforced.

In my case, I have an Olympus C700 digital camera, 2-3 years old with a
power drainage problem. This should be a simple matter to isolate but I'm
finding only operator/user info available. None of the camera repair shops
in the LA area even work on this model bcause they have no documentation
from Olympus. I have taken the camera completely apart (yes, and back
together) and it is very simple to do, but not seeing anything obvious,
like
burned points, bad contacts, etc., I can't do much else until I know the
test points, etc.

Any advice would be appreciated!

If you don't want to post, just send me an email to
lexmark8792@REMOVETHISyahoo.com

Thanks!

Fred

 

[Michael A. Covington]

"Fred" <testing@testing1212mouse.com> wrote in message
news4YRc.19030$114.18125@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

"Michael A. Covington" <look@ai.uga.edu.for.address> wrote in message
news:4117894a$1@mustang.speedfactory.net...

I'm afraid we are going to have to face the fact that not everything is
economically repairable....

True, but the owner (me) should have the chance to fix it and I don't
charge
myself $70/hour. I work for free!! B^)

Understood. That's what Sam Goldwasser is for

The documentation that we wish for may simply not exist, because even at the
factory, they don't do component-level repair.

BTW, I know I'm "boring and academic." That's what they pay me for.


Boring and academic signature:
--

Michael Covington, Ph.D.
Associate Director, Artificial Intelligence Center
The University of Georgia - www.ai.uga.edu/mc

 

[Michael A. Covington]

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@optussnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:mcugh0t0suen4qetn2ap442lpc1lq0m6fr@4ax.com...

Yeah, that's what happens over here as well. It's about time the
useless Greenies got off their backsides and pushed for legislation in
this area. IMO, there should be no excuse for any manufacturer not to
make service manuals available in paperless format via the Internet.
And that means making them available to everybody, not just their
business partners. I detest the condescending, patronising attitude of
manufacturers who pretend that by withholding technical information
they are protecting unqualified consumers from themselves. That should
not be their choice, nor their responsibility, it should be mine.

VERY GOOD POINT about it being a "green" (environmental) issue -- the best
way to keep stuff out of landfills is to fix it! The manufacturers don't
necessarily have service manuals, but they have *some* documentation, which
could be made available. Something about clearing up the safety liability
is another thing such legislation could accomplish.

 

[Michael A. Covington]

"Ray L. Volts" <raylvolts@SPAMRIDhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cfabs6$jsk@library2.airnews.net...

I ended up buying an NEC FP2141SB, for several reasons. I read lots of
good
reviews on it, it's $50 cheaper than its identical twin Mitsubishi, it's
black to match the rest of my system (hey, aesthetics counts AND..
they
will sell the schematic for it.

I'm still kinda pissed they charge $50 for their manual, while Sony wants
half that for their large monitor service lit.

NEC monitors have always been built with a critical audience in mind. The
original NEC Multisync was clearly built with the idea that all the rivals
would examine it closely and envy it. (We used one of them something like
10 years, from the CGA era until the end of the 640x480 VGA era.)

A good reason for the lack of service manuals for *some* products is that
the makers don't want us to see what corners they've cut!

 

[Fred]

"Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote
in message news:10hh7h3ih3h6b83@corp.supernews.com...

Drainage problem isn't an adequate explanation. Some cameras are just
battery hungry. Your best bet is to use Ni-MH rechargeables.

Thanks. In this case battery, drainage or contacts are all OK. A new
battery appears as if it were bad right away. First thing I checked was
battery, contacts, easy things. My thought is it's an open or short in the
power comparator circuit. Like a couple of folks said, a bad capacitor or
diode maybe.

 

[Fred]

"Ray L. Volts" <raylvolts@SPAMRIDhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cfabs6$jsk@library2.airnews.net...

A few companies absolutely refused to sell or insisted they had no service
manuals whatsoever. Some companies were willing to part with the service

Ditto. I will never buy a Sanyo anything just for that reason. And their
service documentation I've seen is full of errors. Same for Olympus (my
current broken camera) -- will never buy another one because of the
disposable attitude of theirs.

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"Michael A. Covington" <look@ai.uga.edu.for.address> wrote in message
news:4118e843$1@mustang.speedfactory.net...

"Ray L. Volts" <raylvolts@SPAMRIDhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cfabs6$jsk@library2.airnews.net...

I ended up buying an NEC FP2141SB, for several reasons. I read lots
of
good
reviews on it, it's $50 cheaper than its identical twin Mitsubishi,
it's
black to match the rest of my system (hey, aesthetics counts
AND..
they
will sell the schematic for it.

I'm still kinda pissed they charge $50 for their manual, while Sony
wants
half that for their large monitor service lit.

NEC monitors have always been built with a critical audience in mind.
The
original NEC Multisync was clearly built with the idea that all the
rivals
would examine it closely and envy it. (We used one of them something
like
10 years, from the CGA era until the end of the 640x480 VGA era.)

A good reason for the lack of service manuals for *some* products is
that
the makers don't want us to see what corners they've cut!

Zackly! Like the old Samsung b/w monitors back in the '80s, before
anyone had heard of that Korean company. They used a few ohm resistor
in the V supply line, instead of a fuse. Whenever the computer fed it
the wrong horiz freq, the resistor would act just like a fuse, and a
column of smoke would come out of it! I finally just ran a pair of
wires off the PC board and put an inline fuse in each monitor. Worked
just fine, and it was easily changed.

In comparison, the old Ball Bros monitors would just sit there,
screeching, without a trace of smoke. One thing, I have to admit, was
that it got the people to turn it off when they saw the smoke! 'Cept if
there was no one around...

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"Fred" <testing@testing1212mouse.com> wrote in message
news:1x8Sc.971$EQ5.432@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...

"Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com
wrote
in message news:10hh7h3ih3h6b83@corp.supernews.com...

Drainage problem isn't an adequate explanation. Some cameras are
just
battery hungry. Your best bet is to use Ni-MH rechargeables.

Thanks. In this case battery, drainage or contacts are all OK. A new
battery appears as if it were bad right away. First thing I checked
was
battery, contacts, easy things. My thought is it's an open or short
in the
power comparator circuit. Like a couple of folks said, a bad
capacitor or
diode maybe.

One thought about the latter. In some equipment, they put a rectifier
diode across the battery with the cathode to positive, so that if the
batteries are put in backwards, the diode will short them out and save
the equipment from being damged. Well you may have such a diode, and
the backwards batteries may hav damaged it so that it's drawing serious
current and draining the batteries.

Yesterday, one of the ladies at work came into the shop and asked me for
an AA cell, needed for the new wall clock she had just bought. I gave
her one, and what'd she do? Just shoved it into the holder on the back,
not even watching which way it was supposed to go in. And of course she
put it in backwards. Well, DUH, after she turned it around the right
way, it started working. Murphy's Law applies.

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"Fred" <testing@testing1212mouse.com> wrote in message
news:tG8Sc.1013$EQ5.812@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...

"Ray L. Volts" <raylvolts@SPAMRIDhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cfabs6$jsk@library2.airnews.net...
A few companies absolutely refused to sell or insisted they had no
service
manuals whatsoever. Some companies were willing to part with the
service

Ditto. I will never buy a Sanyo anything just for that reason. And
their
service documentation I've seen is full of errors. Same for Olympus
(my
current broken camera) -- will never buy another one because of the
disposable attitude of theirs.

I feel the same way, but they are helping to ensure that they will be
able to sell more products in the future by preventing the old ones from
being repaired. I, also, want to have the schem and service manual for
stuff I buy, but after all these years of trying to get them, I've found
that sometimes it's just too difficult to sail against the prevailing
winds, so I just stoop to the level of the average consumer and buy a
new one instead of repairing the old one.

And what really gets my undies in a knot is that the only thing that may
be wrong with a VCR or TV, for example, is that the damn remote control
is bad, and there's no way to get a replacement that has full
functionality! Like you can buy a 'universal' remote, and it has the
usual volume, channel, play and record buttons, but you can't configure
the VCR because all that stuff was on the original remote, but not on
the VCR itself! And if you can't use the original, you can't do SPIT!
FURRFU!

The first ten minute power failure that comes along, and you not only
have to reset the date and time, but you have to re-enter all the
channels, too. And without the original remote, you're out of luck!

 

[Ed Price]

"Fred" <testing@testing1212mouse.com> wrote in message
news:E4YRc.19031$114.3330@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

Thanks to a few for their helpful comments, and to the majority for your
pointless, boring academic commentary. %^)

Typical internet discussion -- 5% helpful 95%.

Regardless, I still can't fix my camera.

You're welcome!

Typical self-centered, argumentative Usenet analysis by an anonymous user.
You find the comments academic, pointless and boring because they do not
support your prejudices and you cannot comprehend them.

And yes, your camera is still broken.

Ed

 

[Ed Price]

"Fred" <testing@testing1212mouse.com> wrote in message
news4YRc.19030$114.18125@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

"Michael A. Covington" <look@ai.uga.edu.for.address> wrote in message
news:4117894a$1@mustang.speedfactory.net...

I'm afraid we are going to have to face the fact that not everything is
economically repairable. The bottom line is that in many cases, it costs
much less (in labor and materials) to make a new camera (or whatever) than
to repair an old one. This is not a malicious practice of evil business,
it's just a fact of life.

True, but the owner (me) should have the chance to fix it and I don't
charge
myself $70/hour. I work for free!! B^)

And I'm sure you're worth it!
Actually, look on this as a golden opportunity to learn something about
repair, and yourself.
Your camera is broken now, how much worse can you make it?

Ed
wb6wsn

 

[geo73]

Really worse
Try the phrase: <wash the board>
the next post will be
OK in the washing mashine at ? degrees??????

 

[Fred]

"Ed Price" <edprice@cox.net> wrote in message
news:5_mSc.30169$Uh.8775@fed1read02...

True, but the owner (me) should have the chance to fix it and I don't
charge
myself $70/hour. I work for free!! B^)

And I'm sure you're worth it!
Actually, look on this as a golden opportunity to learn something about
repair, and yourself.
Your camera is broken now, how much worse can you make it?

Hyuk... hyuk.... TOUCHE!!!!! B:^)
(You guys are a fun group, I'll have to say! Email is so easily
misunderstood, I have to start putting smiley in to be sure no one is
insulted -- not the intention, by the way.

Actually, you're absolutely right about the opportunity. Since Olympus will
fix anything for $150, I might as well root around in there and see what I
can find. From talking to others the best guess right now is it's in the
power circuitry. I'll post what I learn.

 

[Fred]

"Ed Price" <edprice@cox.net> wrote in message news:LJmSc.29852

Typical self-centered, argumentative Usenet analysis by an anonymous user.
You find the comments academic, pointless and boring because they do not
support your prejudices and you cannot comprehend them.

Actually I'm trying to get my camera fixed -- not that interested in
POINTLESS COMMENTARY on this and that. Some folks have been great help, and
others, less than helpful.