What ever happened to service manuals?

[Fred]

Just wondering if anyone has had trouble getting service manuals for various
electronics or appliances and how you got the info you needed to fix
something.

I remember years ago that all companies were required by law to sell a
service manual or at least enough drawings and parts lists so that a
technician could disassemble and work on their products. I was thinking it
was 7 years? Sure seems like that law no longer being enforced.

In my case, I have an Olympus C700 digital camera, 2-3 years old with a
power drainage problem. This should be a simple matter to isolate but I'm
finding only operator/user info available. None of the camera repair shops
in the LA area even work on this model bcause they have no documentation
from Olympus. I have taken the camera completely apart (yes, and back
together) and it is very simple to do, but not seeing anything obvious, like
burned points, bad contacts, etc., I can't do much else until I know the
test points, etc.

Any advice would be appreciated!

If you don't want to post, just send me an email to
lexmark8792@REMOVETHISyahoo.com

Thanks!

Fred

 

[Fred]

I just checked my yahoo account and this came in. I replied telling them
that I believe service documentation is required to be made available to the
public by US law. I will post the next reply I get.

Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 16:56:25 -0400
From: diswebmail@cs.olympus.com
RE:Ask Olympus:Filmless_Digital_Cameras

Dear Fred,

We value you as an Olympus customer and appreciate the opportunity to
assist you with this situation.

Unfortunately those manuals are not available for sale.

=============
My original email:

I would like to purchase the repair/service manuals for the C-700 Ultra Zoom
Camera. NOT sales literature or operator manuals. Please give phone, price
and ordering info.

 

[PJx]

I doubt that there is or ever has been any law requiring a service
manual be made available to the public. In these days of throw-away
appliances, there is little reason to supply them. In the old days,
it was just good business practice.

The only way I see that might the government require one is thru the
antitrust statutes. But that would only require one be furnished to
bonafide repair centers.




On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 19:55:13 GMT, "Fred"
<testing@testing1212mouse.com> wrote:

Just wondering if anyone has had trouble getting service manuals for various
electronics or appliances and how you got the info you needed to fix
something.

I remember years ago that all companies were required by law to sell a
service manual or at least enough drawings and parts lists so that a
technician could disassemble and work on their products. I was thinking it
was 7 years? Sure seems like that law no longer being enforced.

In my case, I have an Olympus C700 digital camera, 2-3 years old with a
power drainage problem. This should be a simple matter to isolate but I'm
finding only operator/user info available. None of the camera repair shops
in the LA area even work on this model bcause they have no documentation
from Olympus. I have taken the camera completely apart (yes, and back
together) and it is very simple to do, but not seeing anything obvious, like
burned points, bad contacts, etc., I can't do much else until I know the
test points, etc.

Any advice would be appreciated!

If you don't want to post, just send me an email to
lexmark8792@REMOVETHISyahoo.com

Thanks!

Fred

 

On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 19:55:13 GMT, "Fred" <testing@testing1212mouse.com> wrote:

Just wondering if anyone has had trouble getting service manuals for various
electronics or appliances and how you got the info you needed to fix
something.

I remember years ago that all companies were required by law to sell a
service manual or at least enough drawings and parts lists so that a
technician could disassemble and work on their products. I was thinking it
was 7 years? Sure seems like that law no longer being enforced.

It falls under consumer protection, and varies from state to state.
Manufacturers have successfully argued that the manuals are only needed and
useful for those who have been authorized to service the product. Unless you are
an authorized srevice center who can order parts, you can't order a service
manual. Having been an authorized servicer for many brands, I can tell you that
manuals are pretty expensive.

BB

 

[Mark D. Zacharias]

Wishful thinking. They are only required to repair or replace it during the
warranty period. After that, depending solely on their policy and market
forces - you may well be on your own.


Mark Z.

I just checked my yahoo account and this came in. I >replied telling
them
that I believe service documentation is required to be >made available to
the
public by US law. I will post the next reply I get.

 

[L.]

Considering most items are made in Taiwan now or some other place, many
companies pick the stuff up cheap - dump it in our laps - make their quick
profit and that is that. Forget schematics, hell in many cases anymore, you
can forget service. It's a thing of the past. Items are so much a part of
the "Throw away" group.........

L.

"Mark D. Zacharias" <mzacharias@yis.us> wrote in message
news:2no1mvF2qhgnU1@uni-berlin.de...

Wishful thinking. They are only required to repair or replace it during
the
warranty period. After that, depending solely on their policy and market
forces - you may well be on your own.


Mark Z.


I just checked my yahoo account and this came in. I >replied telling
them
that I believe service documentation is required to be >made available to
the
public by US law. I will post the next reply I get.

 

[Jamie]

i don't know about service manuals but i do remember
a law about consumer electronic and appliances being
sold in the states had to have a 7 year parts replacement
program.
this was home consumer items like TV's, VCR's, DVD's
and things like it.
at some point if memory serves i think they dropped it back to
5 years and now it may only 2 or 3 years .
i haven't looked into that area in some time now since i no
longer do allot of repair work in consumer type items..



PJx wrote:

I doubt that there is or ever has been any law requiring a service
manual be made available to the public. In these days of throw-away
appliances, there is little reason to supply them. In the old days,
it was just good business practice.

The only way I see that might the government require one is thru the
antitrust statutes. But that would only require one be furnished to
bonafide repair centers.




On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 19:55:13 GMT, "Fred"
testing@testing1212mouse.com> wrote:


Just wondering if anyone has had trouble getting service manuals for various
electronics or appliances and how you got the info you needed to fix
something.

I remember years ago that all companies were required by law to sell a
service manual or at least enough drawings and parts lists so that a
technician could disassemble and work on their products. I was thinking it
was 7 years? Sure seems like that law no longer being enforced.

In my case, I have an Olympus C700 digital camera, 2-3 years old with a
power drainage problem. This should be a simple matter to isolate but I'm
finding only operator/user info available. None of the camera repair shops
in the LA area even work on this model bcause they have no documentation

from Olympus. I have taken the camera completely apart (yes, and back

together) and it is very simple to do, but not seeing anything obvious, like
burned points, bad contacts, etc., I can't do much else until I know the
test points, etc.

Any advice would be appreciated!

If you don't want to post, just send me an email to
lexmark8792@REMOVETHISyahoo.com

Thanks!

Fred

 

[Ed Price]

"Fred" <testing@testing1212mouse.com> wrote in message
news:eNvRc.7058$Se2.6493@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...

I just checked my yahoo account and this came in. I replied telling
them
that I believe service documentation is required to be made available to
the
public by US law. I will post the next reply I get.

And to what do you attribute your strange legal insights?

Safety concerns totally trump repairability. Under no circumstances will a
company legally expose themselves by telling you anything about how to muck
about in the innards of their product. Hell, you don't even have the case
open and you're already calling on the law for help. Should you pinch your
finger or get zapped, doubtless you'll be calling a lawyer.

Besides, the economics of electronics today is simply that any repair is
done either at a large repair facility or by the manufacturer. And most
consumer equipment is exactly that; meant to be consumed and not repaired.
Even the most pricey commercial equipment is only repaired by replacement of
modules. (Maybe the modules get repaired; more likely, they get scrapped.)

The DoD may have been the last holdout for complete manuals, but then we won
the Cold War, and the DoD has driven procurements to maximize Commercial Off
The Shelf (COTS). The DoD now buys the same Agilent Network Analyzer as you
do, with the same module-only level manuals. (True, it may cost you US$80k,
while the DoD gets a rather decent discount. Something about purchase
volume.)

Ed
wb6wsn

 

[Dan Lanciani]

In article <JAIRc.20267$Uh.15005@fed1read02>, edprice@cox.net (Ed Price) writes:
|
| "Fred" <testing@testing1212mouse.com> wrote in message
| news:eNvRc.7058$Se2.6493@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
| > I just checked my yahoo account and this came in. I replied telling
| them
| > that I believe service documentation is required to be made available to
| the
| > public by US law. I will post the next reply I get.
|
|
| And to what do you attribute your strange legal insights?

I wonder if he is thinking about car service manuals? There might be some
requirement there, though the manufacturers have managed to reduce the
information content significantly and replace it with flow charts.

| Safety concerns totally trump repairability. Under no circumstances will a
| company legally expose themselves by telling you anything about how to muck
| about in the innards of their product.

Sony used to be very good about this, selling service manuals for anything to
anybody. I have service manuals for every Sony product I've owned (TVs, VCRs,
older DSS receivers, etc.) and they actually have schematics. I also had no
trouble (though it was slightly more complicated than with Sony) getting a
service manual for a Pioneer LaserDisc player and (I think) some Panasonic
VCRs. Recently I was unable to get a Sony service manual for a newer DSS
receiver, though, and I'm afraid this may be a trend. The sales rep seemed
rather puzzled about it and was supposed to do some research and get back to
me, but he didn't. I think the problem may be more the DMCA and friends than
injury liability concerns. The current legislative environment effectively
requires a lot of consumer electronics to be tamper-proof black boxes in order
to protect the new rights of content providers.

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com

 

[Ken Weitzel]

Fred wrote:

Yes, I would agree with the manufacturers when it comes to safety-related
things -- ovens, etc. In this case though there's no consumer protection
involved. The real reason I'm sure is the $150 flat rate to repair a 2 year
old camera. Typically they have test jigs set up for this stuff and take
less that 5 minutes in most cases.

Yikes! Now you've scared me, Fred.

I'm an old retired electrical guy, and I absolutely
promise you that the flash cap in there will hurt you
really badly - given the right circumstances kill you!

Turning the camera off won't help. Removing the batteries
won't help. Staying away from (not touching) the cap
itself won't help. BE CAREFUL!!!

And I know you're not using them, but NiMh's can
start a fire - or burn a person badly. (I still have
a scar on my leg from a couple of years ago.

Take care!!!

Ken

 

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 04:07:53 GMT, "Fred" <testing@testing1212mouse.com> wrote:

BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com> wrote in message
news:l38dh0pq87qggef5bj4kv80jb9j4o2ioju@4ax.com...
On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 19:55:13 GMT, "Fred" <testing@testing1212mouse.com
wrote:

Just wondering if anyone has had trouble getting service manuals for
various
electronics or appliances and how you got the info you needed to fix
something.

I remember years ago that all companies were required by law to sell a
service manual or at least enough drawings and parts lists so that a
technician could disassemble and work on their products. I was thinking
it
was 7 years? Sure seems like that law no longer being enforced.


It falls under consumer protection, and varies from state to state.
Manufacturers have successfully argued that the manuals are only needed
and
useful for those who have been authorized to service the product. Unless
you are
an authorized srevice center who can order parts, you can't order a
service
manual. Having been an authorized servicer for many brands, I can tell you
that
manuals are pretty expensive.

BB


Yes, I would agree with the manufacturers when it comes to safety-related
things -- ovens, etc. In this case though there's no consumer protection
involved.

Consumer protection is not just about safety issues. Consumer protection is the
goverment arm that licenses occupations, such as Hairdressers, Plumbers, and
Electronic techs who work on consumer goods. They are mostly concerned with
resolving complaints about fraud or poor quality of service.

The real reason I'm sure is the $150 flat rate to repair a 2 year
old camera. Typically they have test jigs set up for this stuff and take
less that 5 minutes in most cases.

Apparently you have never worked on a camcorder with an intermittant problem.
8^)>

BB

 

[Fred]

"Ken Weitzel" <kweitzel@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:SlYRc.64722$J06.28298@pd7tw2no...

Fred wrote:



Yes, I would agree with the manufacturers when it comes to
safety-related
things -- ovens, etc. In this case though there's no consumer
protection
involved. The real reason I'm sure is the $150 flat rate to repair a 2
year
old camera. Typically they have test jigs set up for this stuff and
take
less that 5 minutes in most cases.

Yikes! Now you've scared me, Fred.

I'm an old retired electrical guy, and I absolutely
promise you that the flash cap in there will hurt you
really badly - given the right circumstances kill you!

Turning the camera off won't help. Removing the batteries
won't help. Staying away from (not touching) the cap
itself won't help. BE CAREFUL!!!

And I know you're not using them, but NiMh's can
start a fire - or burn a person badly. (I still have
a scar on my leg from a couple of years ago.

Take care!!!

Ken

Good point, Ken, and thanks for the good advice. I guess incorrectly
assumed that all the folks here are "real" technicians... which is surely
not the case, eh. When I started reading some of the replies, I remembered
"Whoops, I forgot, this is the internet..."

 

[Fred]

BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com> wrote in message
news:it5hh0d2eusjdmd3ji4dc0nbbn7alkcck8@4ax.com...

The real reason I'm sure is the $150 flat rate to repair a 2 year
old camera. Typically they have test jigs set up for this stuff and take
less that 5 minutes in most cases.


Apparently you have never worked on a camcorder with an intermittant
problem.
8^)

Actually I have and you are right - they can be tough. In this case, I'm
talking about a digital still camera where the moving parts are all OK.

 

[Ed Price]

"Fred" <testing@testing1212mouse.com> wrote in message
news:qSXRc.18782$114.2377@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

"Ed Price" <edprice@cox.net> wrote in message
news:JAIRc.20267$Uh.15005@fed1read02...

And to what do you attribute your strange legal insights?

Safety concerns totally trump repairability.
Ed
wb6wsn

WOW!!! That's amazing!! I didn't know JACK ASSES could type!!
LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!

Apparently, they can. However, they do appear to have a dexterity problem.
They also don't realize that two of the groups they are spraying with
electrons do not exist.

Jack, can you figure out which two groups exist only in your imagination?

Ed
wb6wsn

 

[Ed Price]

"Fred" <testing@testing1212mouse.com> wrote in message
news:sK8Sc.1031$EQ5.875@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...

BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com> wrote in message
news:it5hh0d2eusjdmd3ji4dc0nbbn7alkcck8@4ax.com...
The real reason I'm sure is the $150 flat rate to repair a 2 year
old camera. Typically they have test jigs set up for this stuff and
take
less that 5 minutes in most cases.


Apparently you have never worked on a camcorder with an intermittant
problem.
8^)

Actually I have and you are right - they can be tough. In this case, I'm
talking about a digital still camera where the moving parts are all OK.

That's really impressive analysis skills, considering that you forgot about
the shock hazard of the flash circuitry and the energy content of the
batteries.

And you're still posting to those two imaginary groups.

Ed
wb6wsn