What are these things called?, Newbie question...

[bigbossfan80]

I don't really know a lot about electroncis, and therefore since I
need an answer to something I figured I would start here...I hope
there's some experts here!

Basically I have taken apart something called an AutoXray(no need to
know what it is). The AutoXray has an LCD screen/display. The display
is connected to the main part of the electronics which houses all of
the IC's and chips etc. It is connected using some type of light-green
plastic that looks like it has 8 or 9 thin, flat metal lines running
through it. I'm guessing that these metal lines are basically acting
the exact same as wires would, except they use these instead because
it saves a ton of room.

So basically I have two questions. One, do these green, plastic things
with metal lines running through them actually have a name. And two,
since I want to extend the length of the LCD screen from the "brain",
can I just use regular wires to do so?

THANKS!

I wish I had a picture but I don't...I tried searching online but
couldn't find any...so I hope what I said makes sense!

 

[Don Bruder]

In article <a86dc8c2.0405140700.13d18659@posting.google.com>,
deanbrnz@yahoo.ca (bigbossfan80) wrote:

I don't really know a lot about electroncis, and therefore since I
need an answer to something I figured I would start here...I hope
there's some experts here!

Basically I have taken apart something called an AutoXray(no need to
know what it is). The AutoXray has an LCD screen/display. The display
is connected to the main part of the electronics which houses all of
the IC's and chips etc. It is connected using some type of light-green
plastic that looks like it has 8 or 9 thin, flat metal lines running
through it. I'm guessing that these metal lines are basically acting
the exact same as wires would, except they use these instead because
it saves a ton of room.

So basically I have two questions. One, do these green, plastic things
with metal lines running through them actually have a name. And two,
since I want to extend the length of the LCD screen from the "brain",
can I just use regular wires to do so?

THANKS!

I wish I had a picture but I don't...I tried searching online but
couldn't find any...so I hope what I said makes sense!

I've always heard them called "zebra strips" (for reasons that should be
pretty self-evident) but if they have some other "official" name, I
don't recall ever hearing it. As far as moving the display somewhere
else, yes, you could do that. As you suspect, the main concept behind
the zebra strip is "compact connection" - The metal lines are exactly
what you think - "wire subsitutes".

What I'd do is etch a small board (a little bigger than the LCD panel)
with pads that match the pads the zebra strip connects to on the main
board, connected to holes to solder wires to, then use the zebra strip
to reconnect the LCD to the "mini board" you've made, and solder the
wires to the corresponding pads/holes on the main board and mini-board.

I'm guessing, from what you're playing with, and what you're asking,
that you're looking at dash-mounting the AXR's display (yes, I'm aware
of what the item is - neat toys, if you've got an OBD/OBDII equipped
ride - but total junk for me and my pre-OBD car) for "in motion code
display" use, while the "brains" and ECU hookup hides someplace out of
sight? If so, be sure to pay *REAL* close attention to how hot it can
get in a car in the summer sun when you start looking for a place to
mount it - You may find yourself with a cooked LCD that displays nothing
if you put it in the wrong spot... Of course, you may just find yourself
in the same situation if you mount it in the RIGHT place, since cars,
especially dark ones (dunno if yours fits that category, but...) make
such wonderful "solar ovens"...

--
Don Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
I respond to Email as quick as humanly possible. If you Email me and get no
response, see <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html> Short
form: I'm trashing EVERYTHING that doesn't contain a password in the subject.

 

[Keith Wootten]

In message <a86dc8c2.0405140700.13d18659@posting.google.com>,
bigbossfan80 <deanbrnz@yahoo.ca> writes

<snipped>

It is connected using some type of light-green
plastic that looks like it has 8 or 9 thin, flat metal lines running
through it. I'm guessing that these metal lines are basically acting
the exact same as wires would, except they use these instead because
it saves a ton of room.

I expect it's a flexible PCB. It may be a zebra strip as Don suggested,

but these are usually for mounting an LCD almost directly onto a circuit
board with no soldering, and give maybe 5mm spacing between the LCD and
the main board. It could also be a FlexStrip, eg Farnell 650-500
(although I've never seen green ones) in which case you could just buy a
longer one.

Extending by a few inches shouldn't cause any problems.

Cheers
--
Keith Wootten

 

[John A. Weeks III]

In article <a86dc8c2.0405140700.13d18659@posting.google.com>,
bigbossfan80 <deanbrnz@yahoo.ca> wrote:

Basically I have taken apart something called an AutoXray(no need to
know what it is). The AutoXray has an LCD screen/display. The display
is connected to the main part of the electronics which houses all of
the IC's and chips etc. It is connected using some type of light-green
plastic that looks like it has 8 or 9 thin, flat metal lines running
through it. I'm guessing that these metal lines are basically acting
the exact same as wires would, except they use these instead because
it saves a ton of room.

This could be one of two things. If the lines are flat and have
some width to them, and you can kind of see through the plastic,
then you have a flex-circuit, short for flexiable printed circuit.
If the lines have a circular cross section, and do not really have
any width to them, then you have a ribbon cable. As you suspect,
the lines are wires imbedded in the plastic.

So basically I have two questions. One, do these green, plastic things
with metal lines running through them actually have a name. And two,
since I want to extend the length of the LCD screen from the "brain",
can I just use regular wires to do so?

You can try extending the wiring. What you might run into is that
the wire spacing is critical to keeping the signals on each wire
from interfering with the signals on the other wires. It is also
possible that these wires are carrying signals that have frequencies
that would radiate into other devices and cause interference if you
attempted to run this device outside of the case that it was built in.

If the device is FCC certified, you will certainly no longer be in
a certified configuration. That means that you can probably get away
with it for personal use, but you couldn't use it in commercial
applications or resell the unit (at least no legally).

-john-

--
====================================================================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708 john@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
====================================================================

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

On 14 May 2004 08:00:20 -0700, the renowned deanbrnz@yahoo.ca
(bigbossfan80) wrote:

I don't really know a lot about electroncis, and therefore since I
need an answer to something I figured I would start here...I hope
there's some experts here!

Basically I have taken apart something called an AutoXray(no need to
know what it is). The AutoXray has an LCD screen/display. The display
is connected to the main part of the electronics which houses all of
the IC's and chips etc. It is connected using some type of light-green
plastic that looks like it has 8 or 9 thin, flat metal lines running
through it. I'm guessing that these metal lines are basically acting
the exact same as wires would, except they use these instead because
it saves a ton of room.

So basically I have two questions. One, do these green, plastic things
with metal lines running through them actually have a name. And two,
since I want to extend the length of the LCD screen from the "brain",
can I just use regular wires to do so?

THANKS!

Sounds like a flat cable- a cheap-a** one that uses low-temperature
plastic such as polyester.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

 

[Sporkman]

"John A. Weeks III" wrote:

This could be one of two things. . . . (clip)

Actually it could be a third. FFC is short for "flat flex circuit" as
opposed to FPC which is short for "flex printed circuit". The
difference is that FFC are basically flattened wires laminated onto
polyamide, and then overlaminated except for a short length at both ends
where the electrical contacts are made. FPC is actually etched
similarly to a printed wiring board and then overlaminated. Thus FFC
results in ONLY straight lengths, whereas FPC can be made in all kinds
of shapes and can even be an integral portion of a rigid PWB (called
rigid-flex). The contacts for FPC can also be of a number of different
types, including soldered pins. The contacts for FFC are always either
low insertion force (LIF) or zero insertion force (ZIF) connectors which
allow the unlaminated end of the strip to be inserted and held by
friction. FFC strips are typically only supplied in a set of standard
widths and number of contacts, corresponding with the available ZIP and
LIF connectors out there. It's also going to allow only limited
amperages and voltages because of the standard cross sections and
conductor spacing. You can make the cross section for FPC anything you
like, and also vary the spacing so that your flex piece can carry a
wider range of amperages and voltages. An FPC manufacturer can,
however, make FPC to fit into standard ZIP and LIF connectors, and
that's quite often done.

FFC is typically MUCH cheaper than FPC for (hopefully) obvious reasons,
and it's much more commonly used. The flex piece for your typical print
head on your typical printer is a good example of FFC. The color of the
laminate could be almost anything, so whether it's green or transparent
or white or whatever is no indication. If (as I suspect) the connection
on one or the other end of the flex piece that you have is a ZIF of LIF
connector, then you could make a small circuit card with a similar
connector on it (see www.molex.com), and run wires from the other side
of the card.

Mark 'Sporky' Stapleton
Watermark Design, LLC
http://www.h2omarkdesign.com

 

[Wayne Tiffany]

Hey Sporky, how long have you trolled here also?

WT

"Sporkman" <sporkedUNDERLINEagainMUNGE@bigfootDOT.com> wrote in message
news:40A4FF26.F063EE70@bigfootDOT.com...

"John A. Weeks III" wrote:
This could be one of two things. . . . (clip)

Actually it could be a third. FFC is short for "flat flex circuit" as
opposed to FPC which is short for "flex printed circuit". The
difference is that FFC are basically flattened wires laminated onto
polyamide, and then overlaminated except for a short length at both ends
where the electrical contacts are made. FPC is actually etched
similarly to a printed wiring board and then overlaminated. Thus FFC
results in ONLY straight lengths, whereas FPC can be made in all kinds
of shapes and can even be an integral portion of a rigid PWB (called
rigid-flex). The contacts for FPC can also be of a number of different
types, including soldered pins. The contacts for FFC are always either
low insertion force (LIF) or zero insertion force (ZIF) connectors which
allow the unlaminated end of the strip to be inserted and held by
friction. FFC strips are typically only supplied in a set of standard
widths and number of contacts, corresponding with the available ZIP and
LIF connectors out there. It's also going to allow only limited
amperages and voltages because of the standard cross sections and
conductor spacing. You can make the cross section for FPC anything you
like, and also vary the spacing so that your flex piece can carry a
wider range of amperages and voltages. An FPC manufacturer can,
however, make FPC to fit into standard ZIP and LIF connectors, and
that's quite often done.

FFC is typically MUCH cheaper than FPC for (hopefully) obvious reasons,
and it's much more commonly used. The flex piece for your typical print
head on your typical printer is a good example of FFC. The color of the
laminate could be almost anything, so whether it's green or transparent
or white or whatever is no indication. If (as I suspect) the connection
on one or the other end of the flex piece that you have is a ZIF of LIF
connector, then you could make a small circuit card with a similar
connector on it (see www.molex.com), and run wires from the other side
of the card.

Mark 'Sporky' Stapleton
Watermark Design, LLC
http://www.h2omarkdesign.com

 

[Tim Wescott]

Keith Wootten wrote:

In message <a86dc8c2.0405140700.13d18659@posting.google.com>,
bigbossfan80 <deanbrnz@yahoo.ca> writes

snipped


It is connected using some type of light-green
plastic that looks like it has 8 or 9 thin, flat metal lines running
through it. I'm guessing that these metal lines are basically acting
the exact same as wires would, except they use these instead because
it saves a ton of room.

I expect it's a flexible PCB. It may be a zebra strip as Don suggested,
but these are usually for mounting an LCD almost directly onto a circuit
board with no soldering, and give maybe 5mm spacing between the LCD and
the main board. It could also be a FlexStrip, eg Farnell 650-500
(although I've never seen green ones) in which case you could just buy a
longer one.

Extending by a few inches shouldn't cause any problems.

Cheers

Zebra strip is a little rectangular strip of rubber, with lots of
conductors perpendicular to the long axis. You lay it down across a set
of contacts on the PC board (with spacing much greater than the
conductor spacing in the zebra strip) and press the LCD into it. The
idea is that you'll pick up at least one zebra-strip conductor on the
PCB and LCD, and have at least one insulating layer between contacts.
You can't really extend it at all.

The flat strip stuff is a replacement for ribbon cable. It has a much
wider conductor spacing than zebra strip and each conductor goes to a
pin on the relevant connector. I don't know what it's called beyond the
brand names (flex cable?).

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Fri, 14 May 2004 13:17:26 -0400, the renowned Sporkman
<sporkedUNDERLINEagainMUNGE@bigfootDOT.com> wrote:

"John A. Weeks III" wrote:
This could be one of two things. . . . (clip)

Actually it could be a third. FFC is short for "flat flex circuit" as
opposed to FPC which is short for "flex printed circuit". The
difference is that FFC are basically flattened wires laminated onto
polyamide,

Err, maybe polyimide. I don't think I've seen polyamide.

and then overlaminated except for a short length at both ends
where the electrical contacts are made. FPC is actually etched
similarly to a printed wiring board and then overlaminated. Thus FFC
results in ONLY straight lengths, whereas FPC can be made in all kinds
of shapes and can even be an integral portion of a rigid PWB (called
rigid-flex). The contacts for FPC can also be of a number of different
types, including soldered pins. The contacts for FFC are always either
low insertion force (LIF) or zero insertion force (ZIF) connectors which
allow the unlaminated end of the strip to be inserted and held by
friction. FFC strips are typically only supplied in a set of standard
widths and number of contacts, corresponding with the available ZIP and
LIF connectors out there. It's also going to allow only limited
amperages and voltages because of the standard cross sections and
conductor spacing. You can make the cross section for FPC anything you
like, and also vary the spacing so that your flex piece can carry a
wider range of amperages and voltages. An FPC manufacturer can,
however, make FPC to fit into standard ZIP and LIF connectors, and
that's quite often done.

FFC is typically MUCH cheaper than FPC for (hopefully) obvious reasons,
and it's much more commonly used. The flex piece for your typical print
head on your typical printer is a good example of FFC. The color of the
laminate could be almost anything, so whether it's green or transparent
or white or whatever is no indication.

Polyimide is typically amber, very expensive (relatively speaking) and
is solderable directly. If it's clear or green, it's probably
polyester and uses some other means of connection most likely.

If (as I suspect) the connection
on one or the other end of the flex piece that you have is a ZIF of LIF
connector, then you could make a small circuit card with a similar
connector on it (see www.molex.com), and run wires from the other side
of the card.

That would be a way.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

 

[Pszemol]

"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message news:rj5aa09bvt777uk35hmbib2svhpf63bd26@4ax.com...

If (as I suspect) the connection
on one or the other end of the flex piece that you have is a ZIF of LIF
connector, then you could make a small circuit card with a similar
connector on it (see www.molex.com), and run wires from the other side
of the card.

That would be a way.

And what if this kind of flex tape connector is cracked and conductors are
broken... is there a way to fix them with a some kind of conducting glue?
What would you recommend?

 

[Externet]

Hi.
The green fiberglass board with etched metal is called a printed
circuit board; those etched copper lines are the equivalent of wires;
the AutoXRay is a code reader for automobile computer error codes, and
the display can be extended with wires to a limited unknown distance
IF the existing wires are spliced, as connecting to the display
directly may not be possible.
Miguel

 

[Sporkman]

Spehro Pefhany wrote:

Err, maybe polyimide. I don't think I've seen polyamide.

Yah, you could be right. I'm relying entirely on my memory, and I've
been known to confuse a fact or two in my time.

Polyimide is typically amber, very expensive (relatively speaking) and
is solderable directly. If it's clear or green, it's probably
polyester and uses some other means of connection most likely.

It probably IS polyimide, as you speculate. There are other laminates
used on FFC, apparently, because I remember it as white. Molex sells
the stuff I believe.

 

[Robert Baer]

bigbossfan80 wrote:

I don't really know a lot about electroncis, and therefore since I
need an answer to something I figured I would start here...I hope
there's some experts here!

Basically I have taken apart something called an AutoXray(no need to
know what it is). The AutoXray has an LCD screen/display. The display
is connected to the main part of the electronics which houses all of
the IC's and chips etc. It is connected using some type of light-green
plastic that looks like it has 8 or 9 thin, flat metal lines running
through it. I'm guessing that these metal lines are basically acting
the exact same as wires would, except they use these instead because
it saves a ton of room.

So basically I have two questions. One, do these green, plastic things
with metal lines running through them actually have a name. And two,
since I want to extend the length of the LCD screen from the "brain",
can I just use regular wires to do so?

THANKS!

I wish I had a picture but I don't...I tried searching online but
couldn't find any...so I hope what I said makes sense!

That is a flat ribbon cable,and it is the latest variation of that
class of cables.
Look in a computer and see one of the older variations used for the
hard drives and floppy drives.
THe variation you are looking at is also called a "flex" circuit.
It is made like a PC board - copper on a flexible plastic substrate,
etched for the pattern, and then more plastic laminated on top.

In making your own replacement (i presume longer) cable, either use
floppy ribbon cable, or take a number of wires and carefully lay them
side by side on some packing tape, and stick more tape on top as
covering.
The idea is to keep the wires uniformily close together (constant
spacing) for a low and constant impedance.
Keep the length as short as possible.
You might need to tape copper foil to the home-made flat ribbon cable
and connect that to ground, to reduce the impedance and signal
distortions due to ringing.
If you get severe "ghosts" in the picture, then add about 100 ohms in
series with each wire comint from the source to the cable.

 

[Rich Grise]

"Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote in message
news:c82mck.64s.0@poczta.onet.pl...

"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message
news:rj5aa09bvt777uk35hmbib2svhpf63bd26@4ax.com...
If (as I suspect) the connection
on one or the other end of the flex piece that you have is a ZIF of LIF
connector, then you could make a small circuit card with a similar
connector on it (see www.molex.com), and run wires from the other side
of the card.

That would be a way.

And what if this kind of flex tape connector is cracked and conductors are
broken... is there a way to fix them with a some kind of conducting glue?
What would you recommend?

It could theoretically be fixed, but it'd be a considerable PITA. If you've
ever soldered anythig, imagine trying to solder little .002" thick strips
of metallization on a .010" plastic substrate. The only logical thing
to do is either replace the whole thing, of if there's any meat on the
connector ends, solder new individual wires along each trace.

Good Luck!
Rich

 

[Joseph Hansen]

I once had a pile of fluke multimeters, and the assignment of combining the
broken ones to make REALLY broken ones and a few working ones... These have
a zebra strip in them that is a full inch long by two inches wide.
And if you've shifted yours, if you've taken it out to look at it etc...
then good luck getting it to work again. They use them because the contacts
on the lcd are not solderable (not to mention being transparent and
therefore nearly invisible). So you can't just replace them with wires.
And the placement tolerance on them is very exact. As in you have to place
it accurately to within a few thousandths of an inch, or you will have
contacts being touched by two conductors, or two contacts being touched by
one conductor... and you have to be this accurate on both ends. Not once
did I manage it with the Flukes, even though I had many to try with. When a
repair required moving the zebra strip, the display always had an element or
two that were always-on or always-off afterward.

On the other hand, your description sounds more like a flexible PCB to me
too... because zebra strips look like alternating colored and dark gray
rubber. There's nothing metallic looking about them. And if it IS flexible
PCB, then you can probably just use twisted pair cable (ribbon cable with
every two adjacent conductors twisted around each other) to extend it. They
use the flexible PCB in small electronics to make assembly easier, usually,
so noise probably won't be a problem. Its not like lcd's are high frequency
or anything, and the voltages used to get them to change state are pretty
significant. The signal to noise ratio is very high...

"Keith Wootten" <keithw@nononono.co.uk> wrote in message
news:h8Vb7CBFfPpAFwlO@clara.co.uk...

In message <a86dc8c2.0405140700.13d18659@posting.google.com>,
bigbossfan80 <deanbrnz@yahoo.ca> writes

snipped

It is connected using some type of light-green
plastic that looks like it has 8 or 9 thin, flat metal lines running
through it. I'm guessing that these metal lines are basically acting
the exact same as wires would, except they use these instead because
it saves a ton of room.

I expect it's a flexible PCB. It may be a zebra strip as Don suggested,
but these are usually for mounting an LCD almost directly onto a circuit
board with no soldering, and give maybe 5mm spacing between the LCD and
the main board. It could also be a FlexStrip, eg Farnell 650-500
(although I've never seen green ones) in which case you could just buy a
longer one.

Extending by a few inches shouldn't cause any problems.

Cheers
--
Keith Wootten

 

[Mjolinor]

"Joseph Hansen" <sumgie@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:f13sc.10525$hi6.1077341@attbi_s53...

I once had a pile of fluke multimeters, and the assignment of combining
the
broken ones to make REALLY broken ones and a few working ones... These
have
a zebra strip in them that is a full inch long by two inches wide.
And if you've shifted yours, if you've taken it out to look at it etc...
then good luck getting it to work again. They use them because the
contacts
on the lcd are not solderable (not to mention being transparent and
therefore nearly invisible). So you can't just replace them with wires.
And the placement tolerance on them is very exact. As in you have to
place
it accurately to within a few thousandths of an inch, or you will have
contacts being touched by two conductors, or two contacts being touched by
one conductor... and you have to be this accurate on both ends. Not once
did I manage it with the Flukes, even though I had many to try with. When
a
repair required moving the zebra strip, the display always had an element
or
two that were always-on or always-off afterward.

I don't think the problem was one of placement of the strip it is one of
static damage to the LCD, been there, got the T shirt.

 

[John Miller]

Mjolinor wrote:

I don't think the problem was one of placement of the strip it is one of
static damage to the LCD, been there, got the T shirt.

Yes, the strip is just a conduit, and its placement is fairly non-critical.
It's the relative placement of what's touching both sides of it that's
critical.

--
John Miller
Email address: domain, n4vu.com; username, jsm

The early worm gets the late bird.