Weird stuff -- update -- (was Electronic Kenmore refrigerato

[Ignoramus28169]

Things are getting weirder and weirder. My original post is at the bottom.

I have received the replacement relay and capacitor today.

Installed them (it was a 2 minute job).

Plugged in the fridge.

The compressor happily started working normally, mildly vibrating and
indicating in all respects that it is running fine.

Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the
rear insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

i


On 2010-08-31, Ignoramus20906 <ignoramus20906@NOSPAM.20906.invalid> wrote:

I have an electronic Kenmore refrigerator 596.50013100. I bought it
from a private party over a year ago and it has been working great
until now. It seems very well made, overall.

Yesterday it started beeping and displaying a strange trouble signal:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Kenmore-Trouble.jpg

It is right above the word "Kenmore", is red and looks like a crossed
lock and an exclamation.

The temperature in the unit has been rising since then and clearly, it
is not cooling anything. Right now both freezer and fridge are at 46
degrees F.

I tried calling Kenmore, but could only speak to dummies who are
forbidden to give any diagnostics.

My question is WTF does this sign mean? It is meant to tell me
something.

Thanks

i

 

[Karl Townsend]

....

Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the
rear insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

Did you try cursing and kicking? That's my normal solution to this

type problem. Its never helped, but I keep trying it anyway.

Karl

 

[aemeijers]

On 9/2/2010 8:03 PM, Ignoramus28169 wrote:

Things are getting weirder and weirder. My original post is at the bottom.

I have received the replacement relay and capacitor today.

Installed them (it was a 2 minute job).

Plugged in the fridge.

The compressor happily started working normally, mildly vibrating and
indicating in all respects that it is running fine.

Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the
rear insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

Take the cover back off and see if anything changes? Mebbe fridge got
shoved into the wall, and the cover got bent, and is making something
not work?

I'm no fridge expert, but when something stops working when you put the
lid on, that tells me the lid is somehow binding something up or
shorting something out.

--
aem sends...

 

[Dave M]

Ignoramus28169 wrote:

Things are getting weirder and weirder. My original post is at the
bottom.

I have received the replacement relay and capacitor today.

Installed them (it was a 2 minute job).

Plugged in the fridge.

The compressor happily started working normally, mildly vibrating and
indicating in all respects that it is running fine.

Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the
rear insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

i


On 2010-08-31, Ignoramus20906 <ignoramus20906@NOSPAM.20906.invalid
wrote:
I have an electronic Kenmore refrigerator 596.50013100. I bought it
from a private party over a year ago and it has been working great
until now. It seems very well made, overall.

Yesterday it started beeping and displaying a strange trouble signal:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Kenmore-Trouble.jpg

It is right above the word "Kenmore", is red and looks like a crossed
lock and an exclamation.

The temperature in the unit has been rising since then and clearly,
it is not cooling anything. Right now both freezer and fridge are at
46 degrees F.

I tried calling Kenmore, but could only speak to dummies who are
forbidden to give any diagnostics.

My question is WTF does this sign mean? It is meant to tell me
something.

Thanks

i

The lit symbology indicates that the internal temperature doesn't agree with
the set point. From your description, I'd say that the compressor has an
internal problem (stuck valves, galled bearings, dessicant particles in the
compressor, etc). Most consumer grade refrigeration compressors aren't
servicable, meaning that you need to get your checkbook warmed up for a
sizeable deduction from your bank account.

That said, there are a couple things for you to do. First, remove the back
cover, leaving the ground wire unconnected, and see if it kicks off again.
If it continues to run, connect the ground wire to the chassis. If it kicks
off when you connect the ground wire, then you have to find out where the
ground fault is. Most likely, that will be inside the compressor. Don't use
it in this condition; it is a lethal weapon without the safety ground
connected.
If you have an AC clamp meter, measure the current on the hot wire going
into the compressor. It should kick up to 10A or so when the compressor
starts up, and quickly dropping down to its normal running current of a few
amps. If the current stays high after a few seconds, that means that it
isn't starting normally. The overcurrent relay tripping in a few seconds
indicate that fact. In any case, the compressor is highly suspect.

--
David
dgminala at mediacombb dot net

 

[Tim Wescott]

On 09/02/2010 05:14 PM, rangerssuck wrote:

No doubt someone mor knowledgable will have something to add here, but
it sounds like the compressor is trying to start against a load. How
long was it unplugged while you were replacing the cover? I imagine it
should be unplugged at least three ininutes, and probably five.
However, I'd also imagine that there would be a timer of some sort to
prevent short-cycling. Of course, the thermal protection in the motor
would kick in eventually, but my air conditioner, for example, simply
will not run the compressor for a few minutes after you plug it in if
it had been running just prior to unplugging.

Anyway, I'd suggest that you let it rest a few minutes and then try
again.

We had an older fridge that'd do this any time the power blinked -- and
we live out in the boonies. We learned to unplug it for a few minutes
and plug it back in.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

 

[Ignoramus28169]

On 2010-09-03, Karl Townsend <karltownsend.NOT@embarqmail.com> wrote:

...
Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the
rear insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

Did you try cursing and kicking? That's my normal solution to this
type problem. Its never helped, but I keep trying it anyway.

That is always my preferred approach. Sometimes it works.

i

 

[Ignoramus28169]

On 2010-09-03, Ignoramus28169 <ignoramus28169@NOSPAM.28169.invalid> wrote:

Things are getting weirder and weirder. My original post is at the bottom.

I have received the replacement relay and capacitor today.

Installed them (it was a 2 minute job).

Plugged in the fridge.

The compressor happily started working normally, mildly vibrating and
indicating in all respects that it is running fine.

Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the
rear insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

Oddly enough, after waiting for a while, it started fine and is
cooling down at an acceptable rate.

i

i


On 2010-08-31, Ignoramus20906 <ignoramus20906@NOSPAM.20906.invalid> wrote:
I have an electronic Kenmore refrigerator 596.50013100. I bought it
from a private party over a year ago and it has been working great
until now. It seems very well made, overall.

Yesterday it started beeping and displaying a strange trouble signal:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Kenmore-Trouble.jpg

It is right above the word "Kenmore", is red and looks like a crossed
lock and an exclamation.

The temperature in the unit has been rising since then and clearly, it
is not cooling anything. Right now both freezer and fridge are at 46
degrees F.

I tried calling Kenmore, but could only speak to dummies who are
forbidden to give any diagnostics.

My question is WTF does this sign mean? It is meant to tell me
something.

Thanks

i

 

[rangerssuck]

No doubt someone mor knowledgable will have something to add here, but
it sounds like the compressor is trying to start against a load. How
long was it unplugged while you were replacing the cover? I imagine it
should be unplugged at least three ininutes, and probably five.
However, I'd also imagine that there would be a timer of some sort to
prevent short-cycling. Of course, the thermal protection in the motor
would kick in eventually, but my air conditioner, for example, simply
will not run the compressor for a few minutes after you plug it in if
it had been running just prior to unplugging.

Anyway, I'd suggest that you let it rest a few minutes and then try
again.

 

[Bill]

Oddly enough, after waiting for a while, it started fine and is
cooling down at an acceptable rate.

Get a refrigerator thermometer (kitchen stuff department of stores), then
keep an eye on the temperature.

If there was a lot of water which came out from having it off while you
fixed it, and this happens again in a month or so, suspect the
defrost/heater/timer.

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

Ignoramus28169 wrote:

Oddly enough, after waiting for a while, it started fine and is
cooling down at an acceptable rate.

As someone else said it won't start if it is under a load. It has to
rest before being plugged in again.

We have a little device that looks like a cheap surge protector that
will not turn on unless it has been off for four minutes.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
To help restaurants, as part of the "stimulus package", everyone must order
dessert. As part of the socialized health plan, you are forbidden to eat it.

 

[harry]

On Sep 3, 1:14 am, rangerssuck <rangerss...@gmail.com> wrote:

No doubt someone mor knowledgable will have something to add here, but
it sounds like the compressor is trying to start against a load. How
long was it unplugged while you were replacing the cover? I imagine it
should be unplugged at least three ininutes, and probably five.
However, I'd also imagine that there would be a timer of some sort to
prevent short-cycling. Of course, the thermal protection in the motor
would kick in eventually, but my air conditioner, for example, simply
will not run the compressor for a few minutes after you plug it in if
it had been running just prior to unplugging.

Anyway, I'd suggest that you let it rest a few minutes and then try
again.

The above is exactly right.

 

[harry]

On Sep 3, 2:12 am, Ignoramus28169 <ignoramus28...@NOSPAM.
28169.invalid> wrote:

On 2010-09-03, Ignoramus28169 <ignoramus28...@NOSPAM.28169.invalid> wrote:





Things are getting weirder and weirder. My original post is at the bottom.

I have received the replacement relay and capacitor today.

Installed them (it was a 2 minute job).

Plugged in the fridge.

The compressor happily started working normally, mildly vibrating and
indicating in all respects that it is running fine.

Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the
rear insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.  

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

Oddly enough, after waiting for a while, it started fine and is
cooling down at an acceptable rate.

i



i

On 2010-08-31, Ignoramus20906 <ignoramus20...@NOSPAM.20906.invalid> wrote:
I have an electronic Kenmore refrigerator 596.50013100. I bought it
from a private party over a year ago and it has been working great
until now. It seems very well made, overall.

Yesterday it started beeping and displaying a strange trouble signal:

         http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Kenmore-Trouble.jpg

It is right above the word "Kenmore", is red and looks like a crossed
lock and an exclamation.

The temperature in the unit has been rising since then and clearly, it
is not cooling anything. Right now both freezer and fridge are at 46
degrees F.

I tried calling Kenmore, but could only speak to dummies who are
forbidden to give any diagnostics.

My question is WTF does this sign mean? It is meant to tell me
something.

Thanks

i- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Not odd at all. It can't start up against a load. You need to wait
for the gas pressures to equalise in the system. Then it starts up
against no-load.
It needs to be off for around five minutes before restarting.

 

[Archon]

On 9/2/2010 8:03 PM, Ignoramus28169 wrote:

Things are getting weirder and weirder. My original post is at the bottom.

I have received the replacement relay and capacitor today.

Installed them (it was a 2 minute job).

Plugged in the fridge.

The compressor happily started working normally, mildly vibrating and
indicating in all respects that it is running fine.

Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the
rear insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

i

Hi, Good to hear the overload relay worked for you, (I read your later
post where everything seems to be working ok)

As I didn't trust the freezer after my repair I purchased one of these

http://cgi.ebay.com/TA20-CDN-Freezer-Alarm-Alert-Digital-Thermometer-5yrW-/300378854590?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45eff994be

Its pretty neat and although I never had a problem afterwards, its good
to see the freezer temps.

JC

 

[kfvorwerk@gmail.com]

On Sep 2, 2:14 pm, rangerssuck <rangerss...@gmail.com> wrote:

No doubt someone mor knowledgable will have something to add here, but
it sounds like the compressor is trying to start against a load. How
long was it unplugged while you were replacing the cover? I imagine it
should be unplugged at least three ininutes, and probably five.
However, I'd also imagine that there would be a timer of some sort to
prevent short-cycling. Of course, the thermal protection in the motor
would kick in eventually, but my air conditioner, for example, simply
will not run the compressor for a few minutes after you plug it in if
it had been running just prior to unplugging.

Anyway, I'd suggest that you let it rest a few minutes and then try
again.

I seem to remember I was told that you should keep it unplugged 1/2
hour.
Karl

 

[PeterD]

On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 19:03:20 -0500, Ignoramus28169
<ignoramus28169@NOSPAM.28169.invalid> wrote:

Things are getting weirder and weirder. My original post is at the bottom.

I have received the replacement relay and capacitor today.

Installed them (it was a 2 minute job).

Plugged in the fridge.

The compressor happily started working normally, mildly vibrating and
indicating in all respects that it is running fine.

Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the
rear insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

i

hell, my fridge has done that for years... (Really, it has).

The reason is 'high head pressure' and you have to let it sit for as
much as 20 to 30 minutes (typically, but can be longer) between
startup cycles.

 

[PeterD]

On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 20:12:37 -0500, Ignoramus28169
<ignoramus28169@NOSPAM.28169.invalid> wrote:

On 2010-09-03, Ignoramus28169 <ignoramus28169@NOSPAM.28169.invalid> wrote:
Things are getting weirder and weirder. My original post is at the bottom.

I have received the replacement relay and capacitor today.

Installed them (it was a 2 minute job).

Plugged in the fridge.

The compressor happily started working normally, mildly vibrating and
indicating in all respects that it is running fine.

Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the
rear insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

Oddly enough, after waiting for a while, it started fine and is
cooling down at an acceptable rate.

i

Not odd, high head pressure was doing it. Considered normal in most
applications.

 

[Hugh Jassolle]

On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 19:03:20 -0500, Ignoramus28169 wrote:

Things are getting weirder and weirder. My original post is at the
bottom.

I have received the replacement relay and capacitor today.

Installed them (it was a 2 minute job).

Plugged in the fridge.

The compressor happily started working normally, mildly vibrating and
indicating in all respects that it is running fine.

Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the rear
insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

Call Sears repair.

 

[Hugh Jassolle]

On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 08:45:03 -0400, PeterD wrote:

On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 19:03:20 -0500, Ignoramus28169
ignoramus28169@NOSPAM.28169.invalid> wrote:

Things are getting weirder and weirder. My original post is at the
bottom.

I have received the replacement relay and capacitor today.

Installed them (it was a 2 minute job).

Plugged in the fridge.

The compressor happily started working normally, mildly vibrating and
indicating in all respects that it is running fine.

Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the rear
insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

i

hell, my fridge has done that for years... (Really, it has).

The reason is 'high head pressure' and you have to let it sit for as
much as 20 to 30 minutes (typically, but can be longer) between startup
cycles.

Shouldn't take 20 minutes for the head pressure to bleed off enough for a
restart. Unless of course there is a partial restriction in the high
side. If the system has moisture in the freon the end of the cap tube can
ice up causing a restriction. Or some contaminates could plug the cap
tube partially. Normally the head pressure should reduce sufficiently to
allow a proper working compressor to restart in 5 minutes or less.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

DerbyDad03 wrote:

re: "when something stops working when you put the lid on, that tells
me the lid is somehow binding something up or shorting something out."

In a much earlier life, I used to install and repair Radio Shack
TRS-80 workstations. My company also used the Storage Expansion Unit
which could house up to three additional 8″ drives as shown here:

http://www.trs-80.com/wordpress/trs-80-computer-line/model-ii/

These expansion bays were notorious for not working once you put the
cover back on. You'd repair the unit or add a drive, test all three
drives with the cover off and then install the cover and the 84,000
screws that kept it on. Invariably, one of the drives (it would be
random as to which one) would no longer be accessible.

You had to loosen screws, tweak the cover, slap the box, whatever, to
get it working.

With hundreds of these workstations installed in everything from
offices to chemical processing areas, you can be sure that we did a
lot of bench work trying to determine what the problem was in an
effort to make our on-site work easier. We never figured it out and
were thrilled when they started replacing them with the original IBM
PC.

They cut one corner too many by tin plating the edge connectors, then
plugging them into connectors with gold plated contacts. At one time
there was a special connector sold that you soldered to the tin plate,
and had gold plated contacts to mate with the ribbon cables.

--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

 

[DerbyDad03]

On Sep 2, 8:30 pm, aemeijers <aemeij...@att.net> wrote:

On 9/2/2010 8:03 PM, Ignoramus28169 wrote:



Things are getting weirder and weirder. My original post is at the bottom.

I have received the replacement relay and capacitor today.

Installed them (it was a 2 minute job).

Plugged in the fridge.

The compressor happily started working normally, mildly vibrating and
indicating in all respects that it is running fine.

Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the
rear insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

Take the cover back off and see if anything changes? Mebbe fridge got
shoved into the wall, and the cover got bent, and is making something
not work?

I'm no fridge expert, but when something stops working when you put the
lid on, that tells me the lid is somehow binding something up or
shorting something out.

--
aem sends...

re: "when something stops working when you put the lid on, that tells
me the lid is somehow binding something up or shorting something out."

In a much earlier life, I used to install and repair Radio Shack
TRS-80 workstations. My company also used the Storage Expansion Unit
which could house up to three additional 8″ drives as shown here:

http://www.trs-80.com/wordpress/trs-80-computer-line/model-ii/

These expansion bays were notorious for not working once you put the
cover back on. You'd repair the unit or add a drive, test all three
drives with the cover off and then install the cover and the 84,000
screws that kept it on. Invariably, one of the drives (it would be
random as to which one) would no longer be accessible.

You had to loosen screws, tweak the cover, slap the box, whatever, to
get it working.

With hundreds of these workstations installed in everything from
offices to chemical processing areas, you can be sure that we did a
lot of bench work trying to determine what the problem was in an
effort to make our on-site work easier. We never figured it out and
were thrilled when they started replacing them with the original IBM
PC.