Weather radios

[Dave M]

Several of my friends have brought their new weather alert radios to me for
setup and programming. They all seem to receive the NOAA station(s) in the
area, but the AM and FM bands are practically useless. They can't receive
anything except the most powerful FM stations, and fewer of the AM stations.
Granted, AM is on the wane in my area (the most powerful being about 5KW),
but all my other radios can receive them pretty well. FM reception on other
radios is great.
Has anyone else noticed lack of sensitivity on the broadcast bands on these
weather alert radios?
I bought one of them last year, and returned it because of this problem. I
bought another (different brand) a couple of months later... same problem.
I returned it as well. Are there any weather radios worth having?
I realize the main features of these radios are the weather alerts and NOAA
broadcasts, but in an emergency, most of the information you need for
survival will come from broadcast radio stations, not NOAA.

Dave M

 

[Rich Webb]

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 06:12:28 -0500, "Dave M"
<dgminala4444@mediacombb.net> wrote:

Several of my friends have brought their new weather alert radios to me for
setup and programming. They all seem to receive the NOAA station(s) in the
area, but the AM and FM bands are practically useless. They can't receive
anything except the most powerful FM stations, and fewer of the AM stations.
Granted, AM is on the wane in my area (the most powerful being about 5KW),
but all my other radios can receive them pretty well. FM reception on other
radios is great.
Has anyone else noticed lack of sensitivity on the broadcast bands on these
weather alert radios?
I bought one of them last year, and returned it because of this problem. I
bought another (different brand) a couple of months later... same problem.
I returned it as well. Are there any weather radios worth having?
I realize the main features of these radios are the weather alerts and NOAA
broadcasts, but in an emergency, most of the information you need for
survival will come from broadcast radio stations, not NOAA.

The benefit of the "weather radio" is that it will key on the regional
alert code that it is set for and wake you at 3 AM with the new watch
or warning broadcast message. The ones I've used are all strictly for
NOAA reception (no AM/FM at all).

 

[Dave M]

Rich Webb wrote:

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 06:12:28 -0500, "Dave M"
dgminala4444@mediacombb.net> wrote:

Several of my friends have brought their new weather alert radios to
me for setup and programming. They all seem to receive the NOAA
station(s) in the area, but the AM and FM bands are practically
useless. They can't receive anything except the most powerful FM
stations, and fewer of the AM stations. Granted, AM is on the wane
in my area (the most powerful being about 5KW), but all my other
radios can receive them pretty well. FM reception on other radios
is great.
Has anyone else noticed lack of sensitivity on the broadcast bands
on these weather alert radios?
I bought one of them last year, and returned it because of this
problem. I bought another (different brand) a couple of months
later... same problem. I returned it as well. Are there any weather
radios worth having?
I realize the main features of these radios are the weather alerts
and NOAA broadcasts, but in an emergency, most of the information
you need for survival will come from broadcast radio stations, not
NOAA.

The benefit of the "weather radio" is that it will key on the regional
alert code that it is set for and wake you at 3 AM with the new watch
or warning broadcast message. The ones I've used are all strictly for
NOAA reception (no AM/FM at all).

--


Yes, I understand the purpose and benefit of the weather radios, but the
newer models that have been on the market for a couple of years have AM & FM
broadcast bands on them. As I said in my first post, the alerts and NOAA
broadcasts are weather related info only. When you need to know where to go
for shelter or find food or water, NOAA doesn't tell you. That's when you
need the broadcast bands.
Yes, I know that I could have two radios... one for weather and the other
for commercial radio. BUT, if these radios have AM & FM broadcast bands
buuit in, why not make it of a quality that makes it serve both purposes
well?

Cheers,
Dave M

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 06:12:28 -0500, "Dave M"
<dgminala4444@mediacombb.net> wrote:

Several of my friends have brought their new weather alert radios to me for
setup and programming. They all seem to receive the NOAA station(s) in the
area, but the AM and FM bands are practically useless. They can't receive
anything except the most powerful FM stations, and fewer of the AM stations.
Granted, AM is on the wane in my area (the most powerful being about 5KW),
but all my other radios can receive them pretty well. FM reception on other
radios is great.

I would be interested in the manufactory and model number.

Has anyone else noticed lack of sensitivity on the broadcast bands on these
weather alert radios?

Oh yes.

I bought one of them last year, and returned it because of this problem. I
bought another (different brand) a couple of months later... same problem.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting
different results.
<http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/alberteins133991.html>

I returned it as well. Are there any weather radios worth having?

Yes, those without an AM/FM section. I have a Midland 74-200. Not
the best but good enough (if you don't mind a dead 9v battery every
time the AC power dies).

I realize the main features of these radios are the weather alerts and NOAA
broadcasts, but in an emergency, most of the information you need for
survival will come from broadcast radio stations, not NOAA.

Yep, that's about it. The problem is not the receiver(s). It's the
antenna system. SAME runs at about 162MHz. FM at 100MHz. AM BCB at
1MHz. Trying to design an antenna that works well at all those
frequencies is not a trivial exercise. What usually suffers most is
AM. The previous generations of receivers all had loopstick antennas
inside, with an external antenna connection for AM. In todays all
digital, single chip receivers, the loopstick is gone, and the
customer is expected to attach a "long wire" (which really means
random wire) antenna for AM. FM is a little better, since it only
needs a comparatively shorter antenna. 162Mhz just far enough away
from 100MHz that sharing the same antenna for both would require a
diplexer. I have yet to see one in such a receiver. To save money,
the designers usually supply only one antenna connection for all three
frequency bands. The usual result is a performance compromise or
simply inferior performance. If you want it to work right, find a
dedicated SAME receiver, with no AM/FM section, and get a separate
AM/FM receiver with its own antenna.

Some hints on matching antennas to AM/FM/whatever single chip
receivers:
<http://www.silabs.com/Support%20Documents/TechnicalDocs/AN383.pdf>
Some common chips:
<http://www.silabs.com/products/audiovideo/amfmreceivers/Pages/default.aspx>


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Michael Black]

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013, Dave M wrote:

Several of my friends have brought their new weather alert radios to me for
setup and programming. They all seem to receive the NOAA station(s) in the
area, but the AM and FM bands are practically useless. They can't receive
anything except the most powerful FM stations, and fewer of the AM stations.
Granted, AM is on the wane in my area (the most powerful being about 5KW),
but all my other radios can receive them pretty well. FM reception on other
radios is great.
Has anyone else noticed lack of sensitivity on the broadcast bands on these
weather alert radios?
I bought one of them last year, and returned it because of this problem. I
bought another (different brand) a couple of months later... same problem.
I returned it as well. Are there any weather radios worth having?
I realize the main features of these radios are the weather alerts and NOAA
broadcasts, but in an emergency, most of the information you need for
survival will come from broadcast radio stations, not NOAA.

A lot of am/fm radios are pretty bad to start with. ONce you start adding

something, the cost has to go down, so something has to give.

I have a windup Eton radio that has am/fm/tv audio and Weather. I didn't
think the radio was bad, but it was nothing great, though partly it has a
horrible dial (and I've gotten used to digital tuning). I have no idea
whether it's good or bad compared to what you found, but I know I wouldn't
use it as a regular radio (which doesn't say it's really bad, just I'd
rather like the other radios). I can't say Weather is so great either,
but once I get the antenna right, it's okay.

People often make the mistake when buying an "expensive" radio that the
whole radio will be good. But if a decent shortwave receiver has an FM
section, chances are good it's as simple an FM receiver as possible, the
money going into the shortwave section, which generally covers the AM
broadcast band so the benefits of the good shortwave receiver might show
there). The FM is an addon, they see it as a selling point, but don't
want to add much to the cost (because most people only want local
reception). The same happens with AM/FM tuners or stereo receivers, the
money goes into FM.

So people buying a weather receiver might expect a better receiver just
because the cost is higher, when the cost likely reflects the weather
reception.

I got some scrap cb sets once that included the Weather channels, and
without tracing the circuit, it seems like the Weather receiver uses
separate circuit. But it a single crystal multiplied up to mix the
incoming signal down to a low IF. At least when I tried to figure out how
the crystal frequency (that I can't remember) worked, the only way seemed
to be a low IF using cheap IF transformers (there was no ceramic filter,
no crystal filter). I can't remember how the different frequencies were
received, either a different harmonic of that low frequency crystal, or
maybe it was adding capacitance in parallel with the crystal, or perhaps
both. But it was a really simple design, likely so it didn't add much to
the cost of the CB set. I've not opened the windup radio to see what it's
Weather receiver circuit is like, but I suspect a similar sort of circuit.
Of course there may also be single IC solutions, which then would allow
for a more complicated receiver without that much extra cost.

Michael

 

[gregz]

"Dave M" <dgminala4444@mediacombb.net> wrote:

Several of my friends have brought their new weather alert radios to me for
setup and programming. They all seem to receive the NOAA station(s) in the
area, but the AM and FM bands are practically useless. They can't receive
anything except the most powerful FM stations, and fewer of the AM stations.
Granted, AM is on the wane in my area (the most powerful being about 5KW),
but all my other radios can receive them pretty well. FM reception on other
radios is great.
Has anyone else noticed lack of sensitivity on the broadcast bands on these
weather alert radios?
I bought one of them last year, and returned it because of this problem. I
bought another (different brand) a couple of months later... same problem.
I returned it as well. Are there any weather radios worth having?
I realize the main features of these radios are the weather alerts and NOAA
broadcasts, but in an emergency, most of the information you need for
survival will come from broadcast radio stations, not NOAA.

Dave M

I figure cheap junk.I wish I had a useful NOAA warning device right now. I
go to wonder if high wind or tornado is going to blow me away tonight.

Greg

 

[Dave M]

gregz wrote:

"Dave M" <dgminala4444@mediacombb.net> wrote:
Several of my friends have brought their new weather alert radios to
me for setup and programming. They all seem to receive the NOAA
station(s) in the area, but the AM and FM bands are practically
useless. They can't receive anything except the most powerful FM
stations, and fewer of the AM stations. Granted, AM is on the wane
in my area (the most powerful being about 5KW), but all my other
radios can receive them pretty well. FM reception on other radios
is great.
Has anyone else noticed lack of sensitivity on the broadcast bands
on these weather alert radios?
I bought one of them last year, and returned it because of this
problem. I bought another (different brand) a couple of months
later... same problem. I returned it as well. Are there any weather
radios worth having?
I realize the main features of these radios are the weather alerts
and NOAA broadcasts, but in an emergency, most of the information
you need for survival will come from broadcast radio stations, not
NOAA.

Dave M

I figure cheap junk.I wish I had a useful NOAA warning device right
now. I go to wonder if high wind or tornado is going to blow me away
tonight.

Greg

--
Yep, that's probably all of it in a nutshell. Everything we buy no comes
from China, and I've not seen anything of really high quality with a Made In
China label. But, in deference to what others have said, it just doesn't
wash that the FM broadcast band in a weather radio is an afterthought. NOAA
broadcasts are FM as well, and the radios that I bought have had digital
tuners, so the FM section of the radio must be of reasonable quality, or the
NOAA reception would be bad as well.
Using the same antenna for FM band and NOAA wouldn't be much of a problem,
but the AM receiver almost demands a ferrite loopstick antenna. I have
never seen an AM radio that didn't have a loopstick for an antenna.
(Excluding the old tube sets such as the AA5 sets. They had loop antennae
but no ferrite core.)
I guess that in an emergency, you need two radios... weather and FM band,
especially in you live in the boonies , as I do.

Cheers,
Dave M

 

[tuinkabouter]

On 14.06.2013 21:52, Dave M wrote:

gregz wrote:
"Dave M" <dgminala4444@mediacombb.net> wrote:
Several of my friends have brought their new weather alert radios to
me for setup and programming. They all seem to receive the NOAA
station(s) in the area, but the AM and FM bands are practically
useless. They can't receive anything except the most powerful FM
stations, and fewer of the AM stations. Granted, AM is on the wane
in my area (the most powerful being about 5KW), but all my other
radios can receive them pretty well. FM reception on other radios
is great.
Has anyone else noticed lack of sensitivity on the broadcast bands
on these weather alert radios?
I bought one of them last year, and returned it because of this
problem. I bought another (different brand) a couple of months
later... same problem. I returned it as well. Are there any weather
radios worth having?
I realize the main features of these radios are the weather alerts
and NOAA broadcasts, but in an emergency, most of the information
you need for survival will come from broadcast radio stations, not
NOAA.

Dave M

I figure cheap junk.I wish I had a useful NOAA warning device right
now. I go to wonder if high wind or tornado is going to blow me away
tonight.

Yep, that's probably all of it in a nutshell. Everything we buy no comes
from China, and I've not seen anything of really high quality with a
Made In
China label.

iPod, iPad and iPhone are all produced in china.

BTW don't use --<space> before your reply.
Any decent newsreader throws all text after this away when replying.

--
pim.

 

[Michael Black]

On Fri, 14 Jun 2013, Dave M wrote:

gregz wrote:
"Dave M" <dgminala4444@mediacombb.net> wrote:
Several of my friends have brought their new weather alert radios to
me for setup and programming. They all seem to receive the NOAA
station(s) in the area, but the AM and FM bands are practically
useless. They can't receive anything except the most powerful FM
stations, and fewer of the AM stations. Granted, AM is on the wane
in my area (the most powerful being about 5KW), but all my other
radios can receive them pretty well. FM reception on other radios
is great.
Has anyone else noticed lack of sensitivity on the broadcast bands
on these weather alert radios?
I bought one of them last year, and returned it because of this
problem. I bought another (different brand) a couple of months
later... same problem. I returned it as well. Are there any weather
radios worth having?
I realize the main features of these radios are the weather alerts
and NOAA broadcasts, but in an emergency, most of the information
you need for survival will come from broadcast radio stations, not
NOAA.

Dave M

I figure cheap junk.I wish I had a useful NOAA warning device right
now. I go to wonder if high wind or tornado is going to blow me away
tonight.

Greg

--
Yep, that's probably all of it in a nutshell. Everything we buy no comes
from China, and I've not seen anything of really high quality with a Made In
China label. But, in deference to what others have said, it just doesn't
wash that the FM broadcast band in a weather radio is an afterthought. NOAA
broadcasts are FM as well, and the radios that I bought have had digital
tuners, so the FM section of the radio must be of reasonable quality, or the
NOAA reception would be bad as well.

Have you looked inside?

Maybe it has changed, so they're using a software defined radio. But just
becasue both are FM doesn't mean a thing. The FM broadcast band uses wide
deviation, the Weatherband uses narrowband. Unless the receiver can
change bandwidth, either you get weak audio (at the very least) on the
Weatherband, or the bandwidth is too narrow for good reception.

YOu can get cheap AM/FM radios for few dollars. So I'm saying outright
that at least in the past, that was likely the sort of thing. Plug that
sort of thing into the weather radio, and you get the reception without
spending much money.

It is certainly the case with shortwave radios that include FM. Like I
said, it's an extra so might as well make it cheap.

I've not looked in my Eton windup, but I'd say without looking that it's
not using some software defined radio. LIke I said, the weather receiver
in the CB portable that I got at a hamfest uses a separate circuit. ANd a
pretty simple circuit. There's no reason to combine something that sues a
crystal, some transistors and some IF transformers the cost of changing
the FM broadcast eceiver to weather band in such a radio likely would cost
more than just tossing in a cheap am/fm radio.

Using the same antenna for FM band and NOAA wouldn't be much of a problem,
but the AM receiver almost demands a ferrite loopstick antenna. I have
never seen an AM radio that didn't have a loopstick for an antenna.
(Excluding the old tube sets such as the AA5 sets. They had loop antennae
but no ferrite core.)

That's true. I have looked inside small am or am/fm radios (headphone
only) and they do a have a loopstick for am, just pretty short. Probably
doesn't work that well, but a loopstick nonetheless.

I guess that in an emergency, you need two radios... weather and FM band,
especially in you live in the boonies , as I do.

I got an Eton am/fm/shortwave hand held radio at a garage sale for $2 a

couple of years ago, right after I found far better Sony shortwave for
ten dollars. The Eton is kind of interesting since it's back to analog
tuning, but has a frequency counter for the "dial". Weird, the radio is
simple, and likely about the same as that Hallicrafters S-120A solid
state sw receiver I spent all my pennies on in the summer of 1971, a
horrible horrible receiver. But now you can add a frequency counter and
still make the receiver cheaper, and get rid of what was a lousy slide
rule dial. Compexity increased massively, but it becomes cheaper.

Anyway, the thing runs off 2 AA batteries, and having used digitally tuned
portables for years now, I am surprised how long the batteries last. I'm
not using it constantly, but I put in some nimh batteries months ago, and
they keep on ticking, while a digitally tuned radio would need regular
recharging. But the other radio is digitally tuned, and likely uses
current for signal handling, while the pocket radio overloads because it's
designed for low current.

Michael

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Dave M wrote:

Yep, that's probably all of it in a nutshell. Everything we buy no comes
from China, and I've not seen anything of really high quality with a Made In
China label. But, in deference to what others have said, it just doesn't
wash that the FM broadcast band in a weather radio is an afterthought. NOAA
broadcasts are FM as well, and the radios that I bought have had digital
tuners, so the FM section of the radio must be of reasonable quality, or the
NOAA reception would be bad as well.
Using the same antenna for FM band and NOAA wouldn't be much of a problem,
but the AM receiver almost demands a ferrite loopstick antenna. I have
never seen an AM radio that didn't have a loopstick for an antenna.
(Excluding the old tube sets such as the AA5 sets. They had loop antennae
but no ferrite core.)
I guess that in an emergency, you need two radios... weather and FM band,
especially in you live in the boonies , as I do.

AM radio is almost worthless during a heavy storm with a lot of
lightning strikes. I've sat through storms in the dark and in a
building with no windows, but the strikes were so close that the room
lit up from hairline cracks around the door. Some recorded over 1100
strikes in 30 minutes. Even FM is poor, due to the broadband RF noise
from lightning strikes. I had one storm kill a computer monitor that
wasn't plugged in, and had the video cable laying on the desk. The EMP
destroyed the video input. A digital thermometer exploded, and some
other equipment was damaged, even though it wasn't connected to
anything.

The last time I was forced to evacuate by a hurricane, I took a
weather radio, and two AM/FM radios, six flashlights and enough
batteries to last for two weeks. I was sent to a local high school with
it's own generator, so the flashlights didn't get a lot of use. All the
local AM stations were off the air, along with the FM stations. I was
able to pick up the BBC Americas Shortwave radio service for general
news about the hurricane, but nothing local. That BBC service was
discontinued a few years ago.

 

[josephkk]

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 09:25:29 -0500, "Dave M" <dgminala4444@mediacombb.net>
wrote:

Rich Webb wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 06:12:28 -0500, "Dave M"
dgminala4444@mediacombb.net> wrote:

Several of my friends have brought their new weather alert radios to
me for setup and programming. They all seem to receive the NOAA
station(s) in the area, but the AM and FM bands are practically
useless. They can't receive anything except the most powerful FM
stations, and fewer of the AM stations. Granted, AM is on the wane
in my area (the most powerful being about 5KW), but all my other
radios can receive them pretty well. FM reception on other radios
is great.
Has anyone else noticed lack of sensitivity on the broadcast bands
on these weather alert radios?
I bought one of them last year, and returned it because of this
problem. I bought another (different brand) a couple of months
later... same problem. I returned it as well. Are there any weather
radios worth having?
I realize the main features of these radios are the weather alerts
and NOAA broadcasts, but in an emergency, most of the information
you need for survival will come from broadcast radio stations, not
NOAA.

The benefit of the "weather radio" is that it will key on the regional
alert code that it is set for and wake you at 3 AM with the new watch
or warning broadcast message. The ones I've used are all strictly for
NOAA reception (no AM/FM at all).

Because it would cost a penny more.

?-(