Washing machine controls...

[bob prohaska]

I\'m faced with buying a new washing machine and very uneasy
about the electronic controls used today. Does anybody have
experience getting service information for popular brands
like LG, GE or Speed Queen? Dealers won\'t even talk about
service information and I couldn\'t find much of anything on
manufacturer\'s websites.

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

 

[Jon Elson]

Three Jeeps wrote:

For what ever reason, the cost of GE replacement parts seem abnormally
high with a wide price variability, depending on the outlet.

Yes, I should have mentioned before that Marcone is a great resource, they
have parts for LOTS of old appliances, and the price is usually reasonable.

They are a chain of warehouses across the US, and are glad to sell to
individuals.

Jon

 

[Cydrome Leader]

Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> wrote:

bob prohaska wrote:

I\'m faced with buying a new washing machine and very uneasy
about the electronic controls used today. Does anybody have
experience getting service information for popular brands
like LG, GE or Speed Queen? Dealers won\'t even talk about
service information and I couldn\'t find much of anything on
manufacturer\'s websites.
AVOID the Korean machines (LG and Samsung) at all costs. They are designed
to fall apart at less than 3 years. Parts and repair info are hard to come
by. I\'ve got a 12 year old Kenmore that has had its share of problems, but
I have been able to keep it running with a little bit of effort.
Relays burned out on the control board, drain pumps have worn out, and I\'ve
replaced the main bearing and seal several times. I did get hold of the
maintenance manual from a kindly service guy who was, I guess, embarrassed
that I already knew more about it than he did. It has some diagnostic
procedures you get into by holding down three buttons at once. Quite
helpful to figure out what is wrong.

This. Do not buy foreign made appliances. No parts, no support. Make note
that the GE name was sold to the chi-coms and if the product was not made
in the US, good luck.

 

[Cydrome Leader]

Peter W. <peterwieck33@gmail.com> wrote:

Rant Warning Rant Warning

Appliances require care and feeding, generally in direct proportion to
their complexity. One upon a time, the typical Maytag top-loading washer
had a timer driving a layered switch with an eccentric series of
contacts activating a series of soleboid valves and relays that operated
a motor, a pump, and a transmission. Perhaps half-a-dozen assemblies
operating without any sort of software at all. No silliness such as
weight sensors, dryness sensors, dirt sensors nor much of anything else
along those lines other than *perhaps* a door/lid switch so that the
system shut down when the top was opened. Oh, and it would use up to
forty (40) gallons of water for a single load. Big ones used more. They
could be overloaded, they could get unbalanced and much more, And, they
would leave between one (1) and three (3) of water behind for the dryer
to work with.

Now, they have more computing power than the original Space Shuttle, use
between four (4) and eight (8) gallons of water to do more clothing, and
leave only a very few ounces of water behind after spinning. And they do
not care about balance much.

There is a price to be paid for all this efficiency, however. They need
to be level. Really level. With a proper level, level. Fore and aft,
starboard and port. That also means with the feet each bearing
properly. This does not happen much. I know of two such washers that
were installed properly initially. One in this house, by Best Buy, bless
them! Their installer took a full 10 minutes with the level to get it
\'just so\' (and did not take a tip!), and the other at our summer house.
I redid both the kids\' machines after so-called \'professional\'
installation. They need to have the sump cleaned regularly, every
quarter in the typical house, every week if small kids are involved with
Lego pieces, coins, marbles and such. They need to use the proper
detergent, and in the proper quantities. NO, more detergent will NOT
make it cleaner. NO, fabric softener does NOT help clothing last longer,
nor is it good for the machine. Just a lot more lint in the sump. Yes,
they DO like really hot water once in a while to remove scum. Add a bit
of ammonia to help.

Dishwashers have similar foibles, but with different emphases.

There is no reason whatsoever that a well maintained modern appliance
should not last 30+ years with scrupulous maintenance. Well until the
original purchaser is either tired of it, or has moved out or worse. My
general contention is that if an appliance makes it through its first
two years, then it is not a lemon. Excepting that generation of LG
appliances that rust badly, of course.

bullshit.

30 years out of an italian designed/ made dishwasher? no fucking way, not
even in a musueum. 2 years, maybe, if you replace all parts every year.

Refrigerators are the machines that need the least maintance of anything
with moving parts and even the 10 years is a good run these days. Hell,
many don\'t even make it that far before they have problems with freezing
up and condensation/pissing all over the floor. This garbage design is no
accident.

Residential gas furnaces are usually pretty fixable. Just wait until
AC/inverter drive blower motors start to become common though.

 

[Cydrome Leader]

Tim R <timothy42b@aol.com> wrote:

On Thursday, March 25, 2021 at 1:51:19 PM UTC-4, Peter W. wrote:
Rant Warning Rant Warning

Appliances require care and feeding, generally in direct proportion to their complexity. One upon a time, the typical Maytag top-loading washer had a timer driving a layered switch with an eccentric series of contacts activating a series of soleboid valves and relays that operated a motor, a pump, and a transmission.

Mine is 31 years old, I think.
My fear with the modern versions is that with all the electronic controls they become vulnerable to power supply glitches.

Speed Queen still makes a commercial quality washer available to consumers. It costs more, a lot more, but sometimes you get what you pay for.

The best way to have clothes last longer while still getting them clean is supposed to be cold water, long presoak, and short wash cycle.

The dryer is where clothes fall apart. Air dry, if you can. Just check how
much lint collects on a dryer screen vs. sock on the washing machine
discharge hose.

 

[Bennett Price]

On 3/23/2021 5:55 PM, bob prohaska wrote:

I\'m faced with buying a new washing machine and very uneasy
about the electronic controls used today. Does anybody have
experience getting service information for popular brands
like LG, GE or Speed Queen? Dealers won\'t even talk about
service information and I couldn\'t find much of anything on
manufacturer\'s websites.

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

In re: Service / Shop Manuals To service an old Kenmore top loader
that was completely dead, I searched for shop manuals as I wanted the
schematic. Was able to find one for $10. But I decided to first open
up the control panel and take a look.

Inside was a printed manual with schematic, timing diagrams, diagnostics
for some of the controls, etc. Additionally, in tiny print a schematic
was pasted to the inside rear of the control panel.

Turned out the wall socket, which I should have checked first, was dead
and the washing machine was fine.

 

[Cydrome Leader]

Bennett Price <bjprice@cal.berkeley.edu> wrote:

On 3/23/2021 5:55 PM, bob prohaska wrote:
I\'m faced with buying a new washing machine and very uneasy
about the electronic controls used today. Does anybody have
experience getting service information for popular brands
like LG, GE or Speed Queen? Dealers won\'t even talk about
service information and I couldn\'t find much of anything on
manufacturer\'s websites.

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

In re: Service / Shop Manuals To service an old Kenmore top loader
that was completely dead, I searched for shop manuals as I wanted the
schematic. Was able to find one for $10. But I decided to first open
up the control panel and take a look.

Inside was a printed manual with schematic, timing diagrams, diagnostics
for some of the controls, etc. Additionally, in tiny print a schematic
was pasted to the inside rear of the control panel.

Turned out the wall socket, which I should have checked first, was dead
and the washing machine was fine.

Even if the fault was inside the unit, you\'d likely be able to easily fix
the thing due to good documentation and parts supply.

I just looked at an LG electric oven service manual. It goes on and on
about all the places the solder connections will crack. It\'s sort of sad
actually. The guide is clearly written to satisfy quick and dirty warranty
repairs.

 

[bob prohaska]

Tim R <timothy42b@aol.com> wrote:

Speed Queen still makes a commercial quality washer available to consumers. It costs more, a lot more, but sometimes you get what you pay for.

I _really_ hope that\'s true, because I ended up buying a Speed Queen.
Whether I fell for the hype or made a good choice will take a long time
to learn. Price was roughly the same from the local dealer as for an on
line purchase, the dealer has a parts and service department that maybe
will be helpful. For even money, I went local.

> The best way to have clothes last longer while still getting them clean is supposed to be cold water, long presoak, and short wash cycle.

I\'d suggest that tumble drying is a major source of wear; just look in
the lint trap. A short wash cycle won\'t hurt, if it gets things clean
enough. On that basis I elected to keep the old dryer, which is almost
never used, and spend the savings on a better washing machine.

The service manual question is still unresolved. I did notice that
Dexter Laundry puts their manuals on-line gratis, but they don\'t
have much of a dealer network and the machines are rather large.
If there\'s need, maybe my dealer\'s service department will help.

Thanks to everybody who replied, this was a most interesting thread!

bob prohaska

 

[bob prohaska]

Tim R <timothy42b@aol.com> wrote:

Speed Queen still makes a commercial quality washer available to consumers. It costs more, a lot more, but sometimes you get what you pay for.

I _really_ hope that\'s true, because I ended up buying a Speed Queen.
Whether I fell for the hype or made a good choice will take a long time
to learn. Price was roughly the same from the local dealer as for an on
line purchase, the dealer has a parts and service department that maybe
will be helpful. For even money, I went local.

> The best way to have clothes last longer while still getting them clean is supposed to be cold water, long presoak, and short wash cycle.

I\'d suggest that tumble drying is a major source of wear; just look in
the lint trap. A short wash cycle won\'t hurt, if it gets things clean
enough. On that basis I elected to keep the old dryer, which is almost
never used, and spend the savings on a better washing machine.

The service manual question is still unresolved. I did notice that
Dexter Laundry puts their manuals on-line gratis, but they don\'t
have much of a dealer network and the machines are rather large.
If there\'s need, maybe my dealer\'s service department will help.

Thanks to everybody who replied, this was a most interesting thread!

bob prohaska

 

[Jon Elson]

bob prohaska wrote:

I\'m faced with buying a new washing machine and very uneasy
about the electronic controls used today. Does anybody have
experience getting service information for popular brands
like LG, GE or Speed Queen? Dealers won\'t even talk about
service information and I couldn\'t find much of anything on
manufacturer\'s websites.

AVOID the Korean machines (LG and Samsung) at all costs. They are designed
to fall apart at less than 3 years. Parts and repair info are hard to come
by. I\'ve got a 12 year old Kenmore that has had its share of problems, but
I have been able to keep it running with a little bit of effort.
Relays burned out on the control board, drain pumps have worn out, and I\'ve
replaced the main bearing and seal several times. I did get hold of the
maintenance manual from a kindly service guy who was, I guess, embarrassed
that I already knew more about it than he did. It has some diagnostic
procedures you get into by holding down three buttons at once. Quite
helpful to figure out what is wrong.

My daughter\'s roommate has a Samsung that started giving the unbalanced load
error on every wash. As best as we can tell, the ball joints that support
the tub are designed to give damping friction when new, and as soon as that
friction surface wears smooth, the machine will never work again. That took
a little over a year. No service people will come out and work on it.
Some people have reported putting blankets around the tub to restore
damping.

Jon

 

[Jon Elson]

bob prohaska wrote:

I\'m faced with buying a new washing machine and very uneasy
about the electronic controls used today. Does anybody have
experience getting service information for popular brands
like LG, GE or Speed Queen? Dealers won\'t even talk about
service information and I couldn\'t find much of anything on
manufacturer\'s websites.

AVOID the Korean machines (LG and Samsung) at all costs. They are designed
to fall apart at less than 3 years. Parts and repair info are hard to come
by. I\'ve got a 12 year old Kenmore that has had its share of problems, but
I have been able to keep it running with a little bit of effort.
Relays burned out on the control board, drain pumps have worn out, and I\'ve
replaced the main bearing and seal several times. I did get hold of the
maintenance manual from a kindly service guy who was, I guess, embarrassed
that I already knew more about it than he did. It has some diagnostic
procedures you get into by holding down three buttons at once. Quite
helpful to figure out what is wrong.

My daughter\'s roommate has a Samsung that started giving the unbalanced load
error on every wash. As best as we can tell, the ball joints that support
the tub are designed to give damping friction when new, and as soon as that
friction surface wears smooth, the machine will never work again. That took
a little over a year. No service people will come out and work on it.
Some people have reported putting blankets around the tub to restore
damping.

Jon

 

[Peter W.]

It depends.
a) Purchase from a reliable dealer that either has service in-house or can show you a service agreement. Around here, that would be Best Buy, Gerhard\'s Appliances and several others. Not Home Depot. And if you wish to be sure, purchase the extended warranty.
b) Read the directions on set-up, loading and other niceties. They are not overly complicated, but it does help to do it correctly.
c) If the unit has a sump, clean it regularly - at least quarterly. Not cleaning the sump is what destroys drain pumps.
d) Get the features you need and will use - and NO MORE than those features.. IOW, eschew needless complexity.

We have an LG that is now a year old, replacing a floor-model LG that went at 12 years of heavy use. And not from electronics, motors or such, but of all things rust.
At our summer house, we have a 15 year old LG that also has a bit of rust, but is still going strong otherwise. We purchased it used - see pump, below - for $75.
We went with the LG units as they use (when purchased) the least water, and require the least detergent to do a good wash. At the summer house, we have well water, and we are on a Class A natural (not stocked) trout stream, so the issue of water use and discharge quality is critical. We have never had any issues with the electronics or drive motors, I replaced one (1) pump at US$29.00. From Amazon and about an hour to install.

As an aside, there are You-Tube videos on about every aspect of maintaining about every sort of appliance, and about any part you might think of is readily available out there - at least in the USA - usually at reasonable costs as compared to a new unit.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[Peter W.]

It depends.
a) Purchase from a reliable dealer that either has service in-house or can show you a service agreement. Around here, that would be Best Buy, Gerhard\'s Appliances and several others. Not Home Depot. And if you wish to be sure, purchase the extended warranty.
b) Read the directions on set-up, loading and other niceties. They are not overly complicated, but it does help to do it correctly.
c) If the unit has a sump, clean it regularly - at least quarterly. Not cleaning the sump is what destroys drain pumps.
d) Get the features you need and will use - and NO MORE than those features.. IOW, eschew needless complexity.

We have an LG that is now a year old, replacing a floor-model LG that went at 12 years of heavy use. And not from electronics, motors or such, but of all things rust.
At our summer house, we have a 15 year old LG that also has a bit of rust, but is still going strong otherwise. We purchased it used - see pump, below - for $75.
We went with the LG units as they use (when purchased) the least water, and require the least detergent to do a good wash. At the summer house, we have well water, and we are on a Class A natural (not stocked) trout stream, so the issue of water use and discharge quality is critical. We have never had any issues with the electronics or drive motors, I replaced one (1) pump at US$29.00. From Amazon and about an hour to install.

As an aside, there are You-Tube videos on about every aspect of maintaining about every sort of appliance, and about any part you might think of is readily available out there - at least in the USA - usually at reasonable costs as compared to a new unit.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[Phil Hobbs]

Jon Elson wrote:

bob prohaska wrote:

I\'m faced with buying a new washing machine and very uneasy
about the electronic controls used today. Does anybody have
experience getting service information for popular brands
like LG, GE or Speed Queen? Dealers won\'t even talk about
service information and I couldn\'t find much of anything on
manufacturer\'s websites.
AVOID the Korean machines (LG and Samsung) at all costs. They are designed
to fall apart at less than 3 years. Parts and repair info are hard to come
by. I\'ve got a 12 year old Kenmore that has had its share of problems, but
I have been able to keep it running with a little bit of effort.
Relays burned out on the control board, drain pumps have worn out, and I\'ve
replaced the main bearing and seal several times. I did get hold of the
maintenance manual from a kindly service guy who was, I guess, embarrassed
that I already knew more about it than he did. It has some diagnostic
procedures you get into by holding down three buttons at once. Quite
helpful to figure out what is wrong.

My daughter\'s roommate has a Samsung that started giving the unbalanced load
error on every wash. As best as we can tell, the ball joints that support
the tub are designed to give damping friction when new, and as soon as that
friction surface wears smooth, the machine will never work again. That took
a little over a year. No service people will come out and work on it.
Some people have reported putting blankets around the tub to restore
damping.

Jon

We have a front-loading LG that has been great for a decade now.

Bosch dishwashers, don\'t get me started.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Rheilly Phoull]

On 24/03/2021 9:45 pm, Phil Hobbs wrote:

Jon Elson wrote:
bob prohaska wrote:

I\'m faced with buying a new washing machine and very uneasy
about the electronic controls used today. Does anybody have
experience getting service information for popular brands
like LG, GE or Speed Queen? Dealers won\'t even talk about
service information and I couldn\'t find much of anything on
manufacturer\'s websites.
AVOID the Korean machines (LG and Samsung) at all costs.  They are
designed
to fall apart at less than 3 years.  Parts and repair info are hard to
come
by.  I\'ve got a 12 year old Kenmore that has had its share of
problems, but
I have been able to keep it running with a little bit of effort.
Relays burned out on the control board, drain pumps have worn out, and
I\'ve
replaced the main bearing and seal several times.  I did get hold of the
maintenance manual from a kindly service guy who was, I guess,
embarrassed
that I already knew more about it than he did.  It has some diagnostic
procedures you get into by holding down three buttons at once.  Quite
helpful to figure out what is wrong.

My daughter\'s roommate has a Samsung that started giving the
unbalanced load
error on every wash.  As best as we can tell, the ball joints that
support
the tub are designed to give damping friction when new, and as soon as
that
friction surface wears smooth, the machine will never work again.
That took
a little over a year.  No service people will come out and work on it.
Some people have reported putting blankets around the tub to restore
damping.

Jon


We have a front-loading LG that has been great for a decade now.

Bosch dishwashers, don\'t get me started.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Ahh! it all seems to be a lottery to me. Naturally enough there are most
posts by folks who got a lemon and for every such there will also be one
saying well I had such and such for 20 years etc. We have had a Bosch
dishwasher for many years now with no problems but then again there are
many models also. You win some and lose some IMHO.

 

[Bennett]

On 3/24/2021 3:53 AM, Peter W. wrote:

It depends.
a) Purchase from a reliable dealer that either has service in-house or can show you a service agreement. Around here, that would be Best Buy, Gerhard\'s Appliances and several others. Not Home Depot. And if you wish to be sure, purchase the extended warranty.
b) Read the directions on set-up, loading and other niceties. They are not overly complicated, but it does help to do it correctly.
c) If the unit has a sump, clean it regularly - at least quarterly. Not cleaning the sump is what destroys drain pumps.
d) Get the features you need and will use - and NO MORE than those features. IOW, eschew needless complexity.

We have an LG that is now a year old, replacing a floor-model LG that went at 12 years of heavy use. And not from electronics, motors or such, but of all things rust.
At our summer house, we have a 15 year old LG that also has a bit of rust, but is still going strong otherwise. We purchased it used - see pump, below - for $75.
We went with the LG units as they use (when purchased) the least water, and require the least detergent to do a good wash. At the summer house, we have well water, and we are on a Class A natural (not stocked) trout stream, so the issue of water use and discharge quality is critical. We have never had any issues with the electronics or drive motors, I replaced one (1) pump at US$29.00. From Amazon and about an hour to install.

As an aside, there are You-Tube videos on about every aspect of maintaining about every sort of appliance, and about any part you might think of is readily available out there - at least in the USA - usually at reasonable costs as compared to a new unit.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

FWIW, Consumer Reports gives Predicted Reliability scores to washing
machines - no distinction between controls and everything else that can
break. Ratings are for particular models but in general:

Conventional top loaders - best are Speed Queen, Hotpoint and Roper
High Efficiency top loaders - best is LG
Front Loaders - best are LG, Electrolux, Kenmore

 

[Bennett]

On 3/24/2021 3:53 AM, Peter W. wrote:

It depends.
a) Purchase from a reliable dealer that either has service in-house or can show you a service agreement. Around here, that would be Best Buy, Gerhard\'s Appliances and several others. Not Home Depot. And if you wish to be sure, purchase the extended warranty.
b) Read the directions on set-up, loading and other niceties. They are not overly complicated, but it does help to do it correctly.
c) If the unit has a sump, clean it regularly - at least quarterly. Not cleaning the sump is what destroys drain pumps.
d) Get the features you need and will use - and NO MORE than those features. IOW, eschew needless complexity.

We have an LG that is now a year old, replacing a floor-model LG that went at 12 years of heavy use. And not from electronics, motors or such, but of all things rust.
At our summer house, we have a 15 year old LG that also has a bit of rust, but is still going strong otherwise. We purchased it used - see pump, below - for $75.
We went with the LG units as they use (when purchased) the least water, and require the least detergent to do a good wash. At the summer house, we have well water, and we are on a Class A natural (not stocked) trout stream, so the issue of water use and discharge quality is critical. We have never had any issues with the electronics or drive motors, I replaced one (1) pump at US$29.00. From Amazon and about an hour to install.

As an aside, there are You-Tube videos on about every aspect of maintaining about every sort of appliance, and about any part you might think of is readily available out there - at least in the USA - usually at reasonable costs as compared to a new unit.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

FWIW, Consumer Reports gives Predicted Reliability scores to washing
machines - no distinction between controls and everything else that can
break. Ratings are for particular models but in general:

Conventional top loaders - best are Speed Queen, Hotpoint and Roper
High Efficiency top loaders - best is LG
Front Loaders - best are LG, Electrolux, Kenmore

 

[bob prohaska]

Bennett <bjprice@cal.berkeley.edu> wrote:

FWIW, Consumer Reports gives Predicted Reliability scores to washing
machines - no distinction between controls and everything else that can
break. Ratings are for particular models but in general:

Conventional top loaders - best are Speed Queen, Hotpoint and Roper
High Efficiency top loaders - best is LG
Front Loaders - best are LG, Electrolux, Kenmore

I\'m surprised the results aren\'t more consistent between manufacturers.
And, at least a _little_ more consistent anecdotally.

Maybe it really is a crapshoot.

Thanks for writing!

bob prohaska

 

[bob prohaska]

Bennett <bjprice@cal.berkeley.edu> wrote:

FWIW, Consumer Reports gives Predicted Reliability scores to washing
machines - no distinction between controls and everything else that can
break. Ratings are for particular models but in general:

Conventional top loaders - best are Speed Queen, Hotpoint and Roper
High Efficiency top loaders - best is LG
Front Loaders - best are LG, Electrolux, Kenmore

I\'m surprised the results aren\'t more consistent between manufacturers.
And, at least a _little_ more consistent anecdotally.

Maybe it really is a crapshoot.

Thanks for writing!

bob prohaska

 

[bob prohaska]

I take it nobody has had much success obtaining service manuals?

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska
>