WANTED: Good Source of Electronics Theory

[EADGBE]

I am a home hobbyist who enjoys restoring vintage stereo equipment. I
have a good working knowledge of electronic components and what they
do. I have decent test equipment and good soldering skills, and most
of the time I am able to track down and repair a particular problem.

However, I do feel that I need to know more about the theory behind
electronic circuits in order to improve my troubleshooting skills.

Sometimes I find myself looking at a schematic and thinking, "Boy, I
wish I knew more about what is supposed to be happening in this
circuit!"

Can anyone point to any good books or online sources where I can learn
more about how to analyze schematics and recognize what is supposed to
be happening?

CASE IN POINT: I am attempting to repair a tape deck. One channel
(the right channel) of the headphone amplifier doesn't work. The tape
deck has perfect output through the line out jacks.

Here is the schematic for one of the channels of the tape deck's
headphone amp:

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff58/eadgbe123/amplifier.jpg

I have reproduced the schematic in my own handwriting because the
downloaded schematic was too fuzzy to scan. I *think* I have copied
everything correctly.

I cannot figure out why this particular circuit isn't working
correctly. I have checked each component--and even replaced a few
transistors even though all transistors tested fine--but nothing is
improving.

I have tested all of the electrolytics with my ESR meter and they all
check out OK.

I have checked all resistors and none of them have opened up or "gone
high".

Notice that there are some "typical" expected voltages indicated at
certain points. These "typical" voltages have come right out of the
service manual. All of the voltages marked "OK" are...well...OKAY.
But the three voltages marked with a star (*) are NOT okay...they are
all just a few millivolts each--around 20 to 30mV.

All capacitors are electrolytic with the exception of the 4.7pF
capacitor, which is ceramic.

All resistors are 1/4 watt. If there is no "K" after the number, then
that is the amount of actual ohms it has.

For the record, I replaced Q204, Q206, and Q208 but still got exactly
the same results.

What am I overlooking?

 

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From: service0061@watchec.com
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[EADGBE]

On Apr 19, 5:04 pm, "DaveM" <masondg4...@comcast99.net> wrote:

In your tape circuit, the big clue to the problem is lack of any voltage at the
collector of Q205. Q205 must be turned on, at least partially, in order for any
voltage to appear at its collector (which is showing no voltage). It is the
only path that can supply the current to Q203 is through the E-C circuit of
Q205. If Q205's B-E is properly forward biased, current should flow through the
C-E circuit.

Could you repeat this part, please?

There is no Q203 in this circuit.

Thanks for your help!

 

[EricM]

On Apr 19, 9:37 pm, EricM <ew_m...@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Apr 17, 6:35 am, Heinz Schmitz <HeinzSchm...@gmx.net> wrote:



EricM wrote:
BTW, what is connectors 2 on CR4 and CR5?
Does somebody switch from 8 to 2 at some point?

The 1N1239 was a replacement for the
5R4 vacuum tube rectifier;

Oh, that explains it. Then the 5R4 ist a directly heated rectifier
tube and the 5 Volts AC are the heater power. This is, you may
disconnect 12 and 13 from the mains transformer when usingseleniumor other semiconductor rectifiers.

I also located another online vendor that
sells 'C-Cap' rectifier replacements and he states that his 5R4
replacement should work. I'm debating whether or not to order some to
test though,

Investments into faulty equipment mostly turn out wrong, if a sound
reason for the purchase is not present .

And essentially what the relay does, is shunt resistor R5,

To give the amp tubes time to heat up before anode etc power is
applied. Very reasonable.

as pins 2
and 8 seem to be looped no matter what position the relay is in. This
one is really a pain - I've never encountered a PS like this one...

It looks quite ok once we understand everything .

Now, once the power supply seems to be ok, I would follow the 600 V
wiring into the amp with an Ohm-Meter and try to locate a low
resitance to ground.
Next I would check all anode-to-grid caps like eg C19 at V8b. If some
of those leak, the grid will not be negative enough and anode current
will go through the roof.
I'd disconnect T2 on the primary side and measure the resistance of
the windings and the resistance to ground, to prove that the
transformer is still ok.

Well, much everything like in a common radio repair .

Regards,
H.

Actually made some progress. Yes, a previous poster was correct that
my understanding is "sketchy" That's why I'm posting here...

I didn't replace the large Sarkes Tarzians, but did replace theseleniumstacks. I do intend to put 5R4's back in the PS for
rectifiers though, as due to their age they may be contributing to the
overvoltage in the 600V circuit (i.e. reading 900+ when all's supposed
to be present is around 600). Have since found out from another tech
that the silicon's I used elsewhere in the PS circuit are no problem
since they're not part of the HV circuit, and their output voltages
under load measure normal. Will add a small dropping resistor though
to prevent damage to the tubes. One problem was that there was a cap
in the 600V circuit on the amp side that was conducting - basically a
600V to ground. Not good, and was causing the fuse to blow. Replaced
it and got the amp functioning and not blowing fuses, but after
applying a test signal from a tone generator, something 'opened' and I
am getting some 60 hz buzz in the output, which I think might be one
or both of the two 80/450 caps in the power supply that were damaged
by the fuse blowing several times during troubleshooting. In
addition, I did find that two other caps in the amp were getting bad
(old can electrolytics) - made "new" ones and things got better, but
still 'buzzing'. I also suspect some of the old can caps (lower
voltages) in the power supply in addition to the large 450V units, as
at this point there isn't anything else in the amp that is old and
could be shorting or leaking. All of the signal caps have been
replaced with Auricaps. Been a lot of work, but I think I'm close to
completing the project.

Forgot to mention that the 'buzzing' only starts after the relay
closes - so more evidence that it's either the 80/450's in the PS, or
possibly a problem somewhere around the voltage divider/0A2/6DR7
portion of the circuit that is fed from the 600V terminal in the amp.

 

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From: service0211@watchec.com
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[Dave M]

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 07:57:23 GMT, nospam@nospam.com (Don Pearce) wrote:

On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 14:36:36 -0700 (PDT), EADGBE
hwbosshoss@comcast.net> wrote:

On Apr 19, 5:04 pm, "DaveM" <masondg4...@comcast99.net> wrote:

In your tape circuit, the big clue to the problem is lack of any voltage at the
collector of Q205. Q205 must be turned on, at least partially, in order for any
voltage to appear at its collector (which is showing no voltage). It is the
only path that can supply the current to Q203 is through the E-C circuit of
Q205. If Q205's B-E is properly forward biased, current should flow through the
C-E circuit.

Could you repeat this part, please?

There is no Q203 in this circuit.

Thanks for your help!

Q205 is biased just fine. It has nearly 5V emitter to collector, There
is a problem around Q206, though. This transistor provides thermal
regulation for the quiescent current in the output stage. If you look
at the base and emitter voltages, you will see that it has become
reverse biased by 0.4V and there is possibly no voltage difference
between collector and emitter. It is not easy to see why this might
be. What is the voltage on the collector of Q208? It is misbiased
right now, possible by a bad Q206.

Just looking at the basic bias conditions, I would say

Q204 ok
Q205 ok
Q206 problem - maybe C-E short
Q207 ok
Q208 reverse biased B/E

So whatever is wrong, I think it is happening down around that bottom
right hand corner.

Perhaps more to the point, how do all these points measure on the good
channel?

No, the voltages around Q205 aren't OK, and that appears to be at the crux of
the problem. Remember that the OP said that measurements on his schematic that
were marked with an asterisk (*) were nearly 0V. That means that Q205's
collector is at 0V, rather than 7V, so it isn't conducting. The question
remains, and we're still wating for the OP's response, what is the B-E voltage
of Q205?
If it's normal, then Q205 is probably bad; if it's not normal (less than 0.5V),
then Q205, or something around it, is the culprit.

Where's the OP?

==============

Dave M

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[Eeyore]

EADGBE wrote:

Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote:

There's something amiss with the biasing of the output emitter-follower
stage. The voltage on the base of Q208 should be about 1.2V less (not 0.2V
less I think that 6.8V should be 5.8V) than the voltage on the base of
Q207. That suggests possibly zero or very low current in Q205's collector
circuit. Suggest you measure the voltage across the 12k connected to
Q205's base-emitter.

You are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. I took another good, hard look at the
service manual schematic (very fuzzy), and the base voltage of Q208 is
indeed +5.8V.

How did you deduce this?

Because there should be 2 Vbe's difference betwen those 2 points (to turn on the
complementary emitter follower stage).

I'm not sure about the 12K resistor across Q205's base-emitter. I
will take a voltage measurement across that resistor and post it here.

That will be helpful.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

EADGBE wrote:

FWIW, the base voltage of Q205 is +11.09V. This was measured at the
junction of the base terminal and the 12K resistor.

That suggests a Vbe of 0.81V in which case Q205 *ought* to be well
turned on and conducting strongly but it isn't.

Replace Q205.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Don Pearce wrote:

On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 14:36:36 -0700 (PDT), EADGBE
hwbosshoss@comcast.net> wrote:

On Apr 19, 5:04 pm, "DaveM" <masondg4...@comcast99.net> wrote:

In your tape circuit, the big clue to the problem is lack of any voltage at the
collector of Q205. Q205 must be turned on, at least partially, in order for any
voltage to appear at its collector (which is showing no voltage). It is the
only path that can supply the current to Q203 is through the E-C circuit of
Q205. If Q205's B-E is properly forward biased, current should flow through the
C-E circuit.

Could you repeat this part, please?

There is no Q203 in this circuit.

Thanks for your help!

Q205 is biased just fine. It has nearly 5V emitter to collector,

NO. Those are the service manual values. Q205's collector is actually almost at ground
potential, i.e. not conducting.

Graham

 

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From: watches0915@global-replica-watch.com
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colors and wearing uniforms that spell out a great degree of fire
protection for them. Speak out brand imaging!

 

[chrisv]

zirath wrote:

CAUTION : This monitor is equipped with an auto-sensing
power supply for voltage ranges 100—240 V~,
50/60 Hz. Use the monitor with the supplied DC
adapter only.

Is this a standard type plug? The rating is 12vdc 4A. Would there be a
problem using a 12vdc 4A adapter with the proper plug?

Thanks.

Also, could someone tell me what type of plug this is?

It might be a standard DIN connector. The problem is, that even ifyou
can find a mating connector and a reasonable power supply, you don't
know how to wire it.

 

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[EADGBE]

OK, the plot thickens somewhat...

Some of you have told me that, in my non-functioning amplifier
circuit, the most likely culprit was Q205.

I have replaced Q205 and the circuit STILL doesn't work. It is
exactly the same as before.

There is only 131.1mV on the collector of Q205, despite +11.09V on its
base and +11.59V on its emitter.

Aaargh!

 

[eganders]

My RCA rear projection TV has worked well after help from you TV
service people in January, 2005. It has
a chassis number of PTK195AC and is model P60812BL

At that time I found that the surface of the PC boards had some of the
coolent and other debris which I cleaned and that fixed the problem.

Coming home from vacation today, the main fuse from the AC input
failed. Upon replacing it, the convergence is all messed up. I went
into the service mode using the front panel as the service manual
describes, I can't seem to get the grid pattern that I got back in
2005. Can anyone tell me

1. What typically goes wrong when the main fuse blows and the picture
goes out of adjustment

2. How do you get into the built-in geometric alignment grid pattern?

I am into the service mode, but it does not seem to have any pattern
except the Pfor parameter) and V (for parameter value): on the
screen.

I would like to nurse this TV along for a while. It has given good
service and I have no reason to replace it other than the present
problem. I really don't want to get into it deeply. For example, I
would prefer NOT to get a chipper checker or have to hook an
oscilloscope to it.

sci.electronics.repair

 

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[eganders]

On Apr 21, 7:37 pm, eganders &lt;egand...@yahoo.com&gt; wrote:

My RCA rear projection TV has worked well after help from you TV
service people in January, 2005.  It has
a chassis number of PTK195AC and is model P60812BL

At that time I found that the surface of the PC boards had some of the
coolent and other debris which I cleaned and that fixed the problem.

Coming home from vacation today, the main fuse from the AC input
failed.  Upon replacing it, the convergence is all messed up.  I went
into the service mode using the front panel as the service manual
describes, I can't seem to get the grid pattern that I got back in
2005.  Can anyone tell me

1.  What typically goes wrong when the main fuse blows and the picture
goes out of adjustment

2.  How do you get into the built-in geometric alignment grid pattern?

I am into the service mode, but it does not seem to have any pattern
except the Pfor parameter) and V (for parameter value):  on the
screen.

I would like to nurse this TV along for a while.  It has given good
service and I have no reason to replace it other than the present
problem.  I really don't want to get into it deeply.  For example, I
would prefer NOT to get a chipper checker or have to hook an
oscilloscope to it.

sci.electronics.repair

Here is a photo of what the convergence problem looks like

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v384/eganders/60inchConvergence100_1203.jpg