voltage reference

R

R.Lewis

Guest
I am looking for a voltage reference (anything below 2.0V ) that is
reasonably repeatable and stable and needs work from -10 to +40c to within
10% max limit.

Any ideas for something that doesn't cost the earth - I only need a few K
pieces but price is very sensitive.
 
On a sunny day (Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:04:01 +0100) it happened "R.Lewis"
<h.lewis-not this bit-@connect-2.co.uk> wrote in
<c4uus7$1a3$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>:

I am looking for a voltage reference (anything below 2.0V ) that is
reasonably repeatable and stable and needs work from -10 to +40c to within
10% max limit.

Any ideas for something that doesn't cost the earth - I only need a few K
pieces but price is very sensitive.
LM317
Click to expand...
1$
 
"R.Lewis" wrote:
I am looking for a voltage reference (anything below 2.0V ) that is
reasonably repeatable and stable and needs work from -10 to +40c to within
10% max limit.

Any ideas for something that doesn't cost the earth - I only need a few K
pieces but price is very sensitive.
Click to expand...
See:
http://www.national.com/catalog/AnalogReferences.html

--
John Popelish
 
"Jan Panteltje" <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c4v8dk$2nof$1@news.wplus.net...
On a sunny day (Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:04:01 +0100) it happened "R.Lewis"
h.lewis-not this bit-@connect-2.co.uk> wrote in
c4uus7$1a3$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>:

I am looking for a voltage reference (anything below 2.0V ) that is
reasonably repeatable and stable and needs work from -10 to +40c to
within
10% max limit.

Any ideas for something that doesn't cost the earth - I only need a few K
pieces but price is very sensitive.
LM317
1$
Click to expand...
Haven't got that sort of money
 
On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:26:52 +0100, "R.Lewis" <h.lewis-not this
bit-@connect-2.co.uk> wrote:

"Jan Panteltje" <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c4v8dk$2nof$1@news.wplus.net...
On a sunny day (Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:04:01 +0100) it happened "R.Lewis"
h.lewis-not this bit-@connect-2.co.uk> wrote in
c4uus7$1a3$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>:

I am looking for a voltage reference (anything below 2.0V ) that is
reasonably repeatable and stable and needs work from -10 to +40c to
within
10% max limit.

Any ideas for something that doesn't cost the earth - I only need a few K
pieces but price is very sensitive.
LM317
1$

Haven't got that sort of money
Click to expand...
---
Well, then, what sort of money _do_ you have?

--
John Fields
 
On a sunny day (Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:26:52 +0100) it happened "R.Lewis"
<h.lewis-not this bit-@connect-2.co.uk> wrote in
<c51di1$6oc$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>:

"Jan Panteltje" <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c4v8dk$2nof$1@news.wplus.net...
On a sunny day (Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:04:01 +0100) it happened "R.Lewis"
h.lewis-not this bit-@connect-2.co.uk> wrote in
c4uus7$1a3$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>:

I am looking for a voltage reference (anything below 2.0V ) that is
reasonably repeatable and stable and needs work from -10 to +40c to
within
10% max limit.

Any ideas for something that doesn't cost the earth - I only need a few K
pieces but price is very sensitive.
LM317
1$

Haven't got that sort of money
I am sure for a few K you can get them for 10 cents.
Click to expand...
JP
 
"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:0mg87056mmroptfa25daecm20cq4jh3q3a@4ax.com...
On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:26:52 +0100, "R.Lewis" <h.lewis-not this
bit-@connect-2.co.uk> wrote:


"Jan Panteltje" <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c4v8dk$2nof$1@news.wplus.net...
On a sunny day (Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:04:01 +0100) it happened "R.Lewis"
h.lewis-not this bit-@connect-2.co.uk> wrote in
c4uus7$1a3$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>:

I am looking for a voltage reference (anything below 2.0V ) that is
reasonably repeatable and stable and needs work from -10 to +40c to
within
10% max limit.

Any ideas for something that doesn't cost the earth - I only need a
few K
pieces but price is very sensitive.
LM317
1$

Haven't got that sort of money

---
Well, then, what sort of money _do_ you have?

--
John Fields
Click to expand...
I am looking (wishing) for 10 cents tops but was rather hoping someone would
recommend a Vbe of something or a forward diode that would fit my
requiremnts
 
On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:01:16 +0100, "R.Lewis" <h.lewis-not this
bit-@connect-2.co.uk> wrote:

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:0mg87056mmroptfa25daecm20cq4jh3q3a@4ax.com...
On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:26:52 +0100, "R.Lewis" <h.lewis-not this
bit-@connect-2.co.uk> wrote:


"Jan Panteltje" <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c4v8dk$2nof$1@news.wplus.net...
On a sunny day (Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:04:01 +0100) it happened "R.Lewis"
h.lewis-not this bit-@connect-2.co.uk> wrote in
c4uus7$1a3$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>:

I am looking for a voltage reference (anything below 2.0V ) that is
reasonably repeatable and stable and needs work from -10 to +40c to
within
10% max limit.

Any ideas for something that doesn't cost the earth - I only need a
few K
pieces but price is very sensitive.
LM317
1$

Haven't got that sort of money

---
Well, then, what sort of money _do_ you have?

--
John Fields

I am looking (wishing) for 10 cents tops but was rather hoping someone would
recommend a Vbe of something or a forward diode that would fit my
requiremnts
Click to expand...
Dreamer ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
On a sunny day (Wed, 07 Apr 2004 15:03:56 -0700) it happened Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote in
<olu870110s2mfl3eg491ljncfdvk8qh081@4ax.com>:
I am looking (wishing) for 10 cents tops but was rather hoping someone would
recommend a Vbe of something or a forward diode that would fit my
requiremnts


Dreamer ;-)
Click to expand...
http://www.national.com/parametric/0,1850,645-c11-0,00.html
17 cent:)
Is that for single quantity?
Straight from the source.
JP
 
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:38:34 GMT, the renowned Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Wed, 07 Apr 2004 15:03:56 -0700) it happened Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote in
olu870110s2mfl3eg491ljncfdvk8qh081@4ax.com>:
I am looking (wishing) for 10 cents tops but was rather hoping someone would
recommend a Vbe of something or a forward diode that would fit my
requiremnts


Dreamer ;-)

http://www.national.com/parametric/0,1850,645-c11-0,00.html
17 cent:)
Is that for single quantity?
Click to expand...
1K pcs. Distributors may sell for more. My suggestion is 0.01 cheaper
(but you need a resistor) and (possibly more importantly) requires
something like 1/50 the current.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
 
On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:01:16 +0100, the renowned "R.Lewis" <h.lewis-not
this bit-@connect-2.co.uk> wrote:

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:0mg87056mmroptfa25daecm20cq4jh3q3a@4ax.com...
On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:26:52 +0100, "R.Lewis" <h.lewis-not this
bit-@connect-2.co.uk> wrote:


"Jan Panteltje" <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c4v8dk$2nof$1@news.wplus.net...
On a sunny day (Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:04:01 +0100) it happened "R.Lewis"
h.lewis-not this bit-@connect-2.co.uk> wrote in
c4uus7$1a3$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>:

I am looking for a voltage reference (anything below 2.0V ) that is
reasonably repeatable and stable and needs work from -10 to +40c to
within
10% max limit.

Any ideas for something that doesn't cost the earth - I only need a
few K
pieces but price is very sensitive.
LM317
1$

Haven't got that sort of money

---
Well, then, what sort of money _do_ you have?

--
John Fields

I am looking (wishing) for 10 cents tops but was rather hoping someone would
recommend a Vbe of something or a forward diode that would fit my
requiremnts
Click to expand...
You could MAYBE use an LED (red) or a Vbe multiplier (2 resistors and
a BJT) and MAYBE meet +/-10% over that temperature range for half that
cost, but characterizing it probably wouldn't be worthwhile for the
meagre savings.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
 
Why not use one of those CA3083 arrays and build your own bandgap ?:)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message
news:6m2970132t850ig8pceqfg90ncgn0gsv1c@4ax.com...
On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:01:16 +0100, the renowned "R.Lewis" <h.lewis-not
this bit-@connect-2.co.uk> wrote:


"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:0mg87056mmroptfa25daecm20cq4jh3q3a@4ax.com...
On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:26:52 +0100, "R.Lewis" <h.lewis-not this
bit-@connect-2.co.uk> wrote:


"Jan Panteltje" <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c4v8dk$2nof$1@news.wplus.net...
On a sunny day (Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:04:01 +0100) it happened
"R.Lewis"
h.lewis-not this bit-@connect-2.co.uk> wrote in
c4uus7$1a3$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>:

I am looking for a voltage reference (anything below 2.0V ) that is
reasonably repeatable and stable and needs work from -10 to +40c to
within
10% max limit.

Any ideas for something that doesn't cost the earth - I only need a
few K
pieces but price is very sensitive.
LM317
1$

Haven't got that sort of money

---
Well, then, what sort of money _do_ you have?

--
John Fields

I am looking (wishing) for 10 cents tops but was rather hoping someone
would
recommend a Vbe of something or a forward diode that would fit my
requiremnts

You could MAYBE use an LED (red) or a Vbe multiplier (2 resistors and
a BJT) and MAYBE meet +/-10% over that temperature range for half that
cost, but characterizing it probably wouldn't be worthwhile for the
meagre savings.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
Click to expand...
why stop there? Vbe multiplier with ntc (or ptc) 1st-order temperature
compensation......
 
On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:01:16 +0100, "R.Lewis" <h.lewis-not this
bit-@connect-2.co.uk> wrote:

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:0mg87056mmroptfa25daecm20cq4jh3q3a@4ax.com...
On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:26:52 +0100, "R.Lewis" <h.lewis-not this
bit-@connect-2.co.uk> wrote:


"Jan Panteltje" <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c4v8dk$2nof$1@news.wplus.net...
On a sunny day (Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:04:01 +0100) it happened "R.Lewis"
h.lewis-not this bit-@connect-2.co.uk> wrote in
c4uus7$1a3$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>:

I am looking for a voltage reference (anything below 2.0V ) that is
reasonably repeatable and stable and needs work from -10 to +40c to
within
10% max limit.

Any ideas for something that doesn't cost the earth - I only need a
few K
pieces but price is very sensitive.
LM317
1$

Haven't got that sort of money

---
Well, then, what sort of money _do_ you have?

--
John Fields

I am looking (wishing) for 10 cents tops but was rather hoping someone would
recommend a Vbe of something or a forward diode that would fit my
requiremnts
Click to expand...
Use an LED.

--

Boris Mohar
 
On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:10:06 -0700, "Terry Given"
<the_domes@xtra.co.nz> wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:hf8970l4tvgvvnffn4egl4cc7boi342ire@4ax.com...
Why not use one of those CA3083 arrays and build your own bandgap ?:)

...Jim Thompson

$0.03 buys you a dual transistor BC847BPN, one NPN the other PNP.....in a
6-leg SOT23 package - how good a reference can you make with that? crude
current source driving temp-compensated vbe multiplier.....
Click to expand...
How are you going to make a "temp-compensated vbe multiplier"?

What does a CA3083 sell for? I couldn't find a price on the web.

If there's interest, I'll design a bandgap around a CA3083... it's
pretty easy ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:e3a970lff5d4j9m1lfvc6hm3bdrml9tart@4ax.com...
On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:10:06 -0700, "Terry Given"
the_domes@xtra.co.nz> wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:hf8970l4tvgvvnffn4egl4cc7boi342ire@4ax.com...
Why not use one of those CA3083 arrays and build your own bandgap ?:)

...Jim Thompson

$0.03 buys you a dual transistor BC847BPN, one NPN the other PNP.....in a
6-leg SOT23 package - how good a reference can you make with that? crude
current source driving temp-compensated vbe multiplier.....


How are you going to make a "temp-compensated vbe multiplier"?
Click to expand...
I was looking into a non-linear voltage divider - ntc or ptc at same (ish)
temp as bjt.

What does a CA3083 sell for? I couldn't find a price on the web.
Click to expand...
mostly my point......can you still buy them?

If there's interest, I'll design a bandgap around a CA3083... it's
pretty easy ;-)

...Jim Thompson
Click to expand...
I am certainly interested.....
 
"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:hf8970l4tvgvvnffn4egl4cc7boi342ire@4ax.com...
Why not use one of those CA3083 arrays and build your own bandgap ?:)

...Jim Thompson
Click to expand...
$0.03 buys you a dual transistor BC847BPN, one NPN the other PNP.....in a
6-leg SOT23 package - how good a reference can you make with that? crude
current source driving temp-compensated vbe multiplier.....
 
"Terry Given" <the_domes@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:a02dc.8507$d%6.155695@news.xtra.co.nz...
"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:e3a970lff5d4j9m1lfvc6hm3bdrml9tart@4ax.com...
On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:10:06 -0700, "Terry Given"
the_domes@xtra.co.nz> wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:hf8970l4tvgvvnffn4egl4cc7boi342ire@4ax.com...
Why not use one of those CA3083 arrays and build your own bandgap
?:)

...Jim Thompson

$0.03 buys you a dual transistor BC847BPN, one NPN the other PNP.....in
a
6-leg SOT23 package - how good a reference can you make with that?
crude
current source driving temp-compensated vbe multiplier.....


How are you going to make a "temp-compensated vbe multiplier"?

I was looking into a non-linear voltage divider - ntc or ptc at same (ish)
temp as bjt.


What does a CA3083 sell for? I couldn't find a price on the web.

mostly my point......can you still buy them?


If there's interest, I'll design a bandgap around a CA3083... it's
pretty easy ;-)

...Jim Thompson

I am certainly interested.....
Click to expand...
assume an 0.65V forward drop at 25C. -10C gives about 727mV = +11.9%, 40C
gives about 617mV = -5.1%

using a Vbe multiplier with a 22k Rcb, and Rbe = 100k NTC paralleled with
27k, V = 1.349V at -10C = +1.97%, V = 1.323V at 25C and V = 1.373V at 40C =
+3.82%

I havent bothered to "design" this, just a quick fiddle with some NTC data I
happened to have in excel....shows that, over a limited temperature range,
can do OK with crappy old vbe multipliers and an ntc. If I actually designed
it (using scientific wild-assed guesses rather than wild-assed guesses) I
could probably do even better.....

If you used a BC847bpn with the pnp set up as a crude current source, this
would run on a very wide input voltage range too....and easily meet the
$0.17 price requirement
 
"Boris Mohar" <borism_-void-_@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:fma9701q8pv8d2pm9p2t7ououd51r67hc3@4ax.com...
On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:01:16 +0100, "R.Lewis" <h.lewis-not this
bit-@connect-2.co.uk> wrote:


"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:0mg87056mmroptfa25daecm20cq4jh3q3a@4ax.com...
On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:26:52 +0100, "R.Lewis" <h.lewis-not this
bit-@connect-2.co.uk> wrote:


"Jan Panteltje" <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c4v8dk$2nof$1@news.wplus.net...
On a sunny day (Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:04:01 +0100) it happened
"R.Lewis"
h.lewis-not this bit-@connect-2.co.uk> wrote in
c4uus7$1a3$1@thorium.cix.co.uk>:

I am looking for a voltage reference (anything below 2.0V ) that is
reasonably repeatable and stable and needs work from -10 to +40c to
within
10% max limit.

Any ideas for something that doesn't cost the earth - I only need a
few K
pieces but price is very sensitive.
LM317
1$

Haven't got that sort of money

---
Well, then, what sort of money _do_ you have?

--
John Fields

I am looking (wishing) for 10 cents tops but was rather hoping someone
would
recommend a Vbe of something or a forward diode that would fit my
requiremnts


Use an LED.

--

Boris Mohar
Click to expand...
Do you know of a led that fulfils the 10% requirement ?
I have not measured any specifically for this task but I seem to remember
getting a greater that 10% variation in Vf as they come out of the box,
plus the 2.something mV per degC tempco.
 
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