Visual aids for accurate PCB drilling

[Concerned]

PCB drilling can often be a hit/miss scenario for some of us who can't
afford CNC machines or don't see the worth in having prototype boards done
by others. Even with SMD instead of thru-hole you'll still need to drill
holes, only much less. Use some form of magnification? Design the holes
smaller than the bit size and let the drill press runout do the rest? Yes,
this topic has been discussed over and over but as new equipment and
scenarios develop it probably should be revisited on a regular basis. And on
this note, my particular interest is in advancements in the area of
magnification.

I started off using a magnification lamp probably like most others. Went to
a magnification visor setup and currently use a SLR camera with a macro
setup. The latter allows me to fairly accurately drill holes without
depending on drill press runout and bit walk. Here's a link to basically
what is seen just before drilling starts;

http://image.pbase.com/u41/eldata/large/27140910.CRW_8443_1.jpg

What I'm now looking for is something better than this even if it entails
the use of a small B&W camera and monitor. Does anyone know of affordable
(less than $300.00) setups like this? Are there any other ideas?

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 12:25:17 -0500, the renowned "Concerned"
<someone@somewhere.com> wrote:

What I'm now looking for is something better than this even if it entails
the use of a small B&W camera and monitor. Does anyone know of affordable
(less than $300.00) setups like this? Are there any other ideas?

You can probably get a broken camcorder with macro focus for next to
nothing, use the video out from that on a little flatscreen TV. Maybe
$100 US plus another $15 for a little halogen light.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

 

[DJ Delorie]

PCB [*] has a "drill helper" print mode that prints a smaller annulus
inside each drill site to guide the tip of the drill bit. Don't know
how well it works; my boards get sent out.

[1] http://pcb.sourceforge.net/

 

[Derek Hawkins]

You can probably get a broken camcorder

Thanks! Left some messages in the rec.video groups.

"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message
news:bgkr50t014b45litkf9rdt8l82fl27k5u4@4ax.com...

On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 12:25:17 -0500, the renowned "Concerned"
someone@somewhere.com> wrote:

What I'm now looking for is something better than this even if it
entails
the use of a small B&W camera and monitor. Does anyone know of affordable
(less than $300.00) setups like this? Are there any other ideas?

You can probably get a broken camcorder with macro focus for next to
nothing, use the video out from that on a little flatscreen TV. Maybe
$100 US plus another $15 for a little halogen light.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers:
http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers:
http://www.speff.com

 

[Derek Hawkins]

Seems to work better with HSS bits combined with sufficient runout IMO.
Crappy holes drilled at an angle can often result. Carbide bits with low
runout tend to stick to the original path resulting in very neat but
misplaced holes unless originally centered.

"DJ Delorie" <dj@delorie.com> wrote in message
news:xny8pum55g.fsf@delorie.com...

PCB [*] has a "drill helper" print mode that prints a smaller annulus
inside each drill site to guide the tip of the drill bit. Don't know
how well it works; my boards get sent out.

[1] http://pcb.sourceforge.net/

 

[DJ Delorie]

"Derek Hawkins" <someone@somewhere.com> writes:

Seems to work better with HSS bits combined with sufficient runout IMO.
Crappy holes drilled at an angle can often result. Carbide bits with low
runout tend to stick to the original path resulting in very neat but
misplaced holes unless originally centered.

I assume the helpers help you align the drill in the first place,
though. The board can move until the tip of the bit drops into the
helper, then hold the board firm and drill. It only makes helpers for
large holes, too.

I don't think it will help with the "I can't see what I'm doing"
problem for small holes.

 

[Don Lancaster]

Concerned wrote:

PCB drilling can often be a hit/miss scenario for some of us who can't
afford CNC machines or don't see the worth in having prototype boards done
by others. Even with SMD instead of thru-hole you'll still need to drill
holes, only much less. Use some form of magnification? Design the holes
smaller than the bit size and let the drill press runout do the rest? Yes,
this topic has been discussed over and over but as new equipment and
scenarios develop it probably should be revisited on a regular basis. And on
this note, my particular interest is in advancements in the area of
magnification.

I started off using a magnification lamp probably like most others. Went to
a magnification visor setup and currently use a SLR camera with a macro
setup. The latter allows me to fairly accurately drill holes without
depending on drill press runout and bit walk. Here's a link to basically
what is seen just before drilling starts;

http://image.pbase.com/u41/eldata/large/27140910.CRW_8443_1.jpg

What I'm now looking for is something better than this even if it entails
the use of a small B&W camera and monitor. Does anyone know of affordable
(less than $300.00) setups like this? Are there any other ideas?

The problem with a drilling template through a block of 1/4 aluminum is?

--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
voice: (928)428-4073 email: don@tinaja.com

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

 

[mike]

Concerned wrote:

PCB drilling can often be a hit/miss scenario for some of us who can't
afford CNC machines or don't see the worth in having prototype boards done
by others. Even with SMD instead of thru-hole you'll still need to drill
holes, only much less. Use some form of magnification? Design the holes
smaller than the bit size and let the drill press runout do the rest? Yes,
this topic has been discussed over and over but as new equipment and
scenarios develop it probably should be revisited on a regular basis. And on
this note, my particular interest is in advancements in the area of
magnification.

I started off using a magnification lamp probably like most others. Went to
a magnification visor setup and currently use a SLR camera with a macro
setup. The latter allows me to fairly accurately drill holes without
depending on drill press runout and bit walk. Here's a link to basically
what is seen just before drilling starts;

http://image.pbase.com/u41/eldata/large/27140910.CRW_8443_1.jpg

What I'm now looking for is something better than this even if it entails
the use of a small B&W camera and monitor. Does anyone know of affordable
(less than $300.00) setups like this? Are there any other ideas?

Would be really neat to have two cameras at right angles. I don't have
any trouble centering the drill on the axis that I can see, but the
other one gets off sometimes.
mike

--
Return address is VALID.
Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
Toshiba & Compaq LiIon Batteries, Test Equipment
Honda CB-125S $800 in PDX
Yaesu FTV901R Transverter, 30pS pulser
Tektronix Concept Books, spot welding head...
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/

 

[Derek Hawkins]

I assume the helpers help you align the drill in the first place

I thought they provided a path of least resistance centered within the
larger hole and less than the diameter of the bit itself causing the bit to
"walk" if originally off center. If what you are referring to Is a center
punch "island" using 1 or 2 oz copper then will accurate placement really be
feasible without sufficient magnification with such a shallow punch?

"DJ Delorie" <dj@delorie.com> wrote in message
news:xnhdwilzmh.fsf@delorie.com...

"Derek Hawkins" <someone@somewhere.com> writes:
Seems to work better with HSS bits combined with sufficient runout IMO.
Crappy holes drilled at an angle can often result. Carbide bits with low
runout tend to stick to the original path resulting in very neat but
misplaced holes unless originally centered.

I assume the helpers help you align the drill in the first place,
though. The board can move until the tip of the bit drops into the
helper, then hold the board firm and drill. It only makes helpers for
large holes, too.

I don't think it will help with the "I can't see what I'm doing"
problem for small holes.

 

[Derek Hawkins]

but the other one gets off sometimes.

Agreed, but I find 3D awareness not only increases with practice
(subconscious pattern matching) but also with magnification. One can help
offset the other.

"mike" <spamme0@juno.com> wrote in message news:405E0297.2040404@juno.com...

Concerned wrote:
PCB drilling can often be a hit/miss scenario for some of us who can't
afford CNC machines or don't see the worth in having prototype boards
done
by others. Even with SMD instead of thru-hole you'll still need to drill
holes, only much less. Use some form of magnification? Design the holes
smaller than the bit size and let the drill press runout do the rest?
Yes,
this topic has been discussed over and over but as new equipment and
scenarios develop it probably should be revisited on a regular basis.
And on
this note, my particular interest is in advancements in the area of
magnification.

I started off using a magnification lamp probably like most others. Went
to
a magnification visor setup and currently use a SLR camera with a macro
setup. The latter allows me to fairly accurately drill holes without
depending on drill press runout and bit walk. Here's a link to basically
what is seen just before drilling starts;

http://image.pbase.com/u41/eldata/large/27140910.CRW_8443_1.jpg

What I'm now looking for is something better than this even if it
entails
the use of a small B&W camera and monitor. Does anyone know of
affordable
(less than $300.00) setups like this? Are there any other ideas?



Would be really neat to have two cameras at right angles. I don't have
any trouble centering the drill on the axis that I can see, but the
other one gets off sometimes.
mike

--
Return address is VALID.
Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
Toshiba & Compaq LiIon Batteries, Test Equipment
Honda CB-125S $800 in PDX
Yaesu FTV901R Transverter, 30pS pulser
Tektronix Concept Books, spot welding head...
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/

 

[DJ Delorie]

"Derek Hawkins" <someone@somewhere.com> writes:

I assume the helpers help you align the drill in the first place

I thought they provided a path of least resistance centered within the
larger hole and less than the diameter of the bit itself causing the bit to
"walk" if originally off center. If what you are referring to Is a center
punch "island" using 1 or 2 oz copper then will accurate placement really be
feasible without sufficient magnification with such a shallow punch?

The helpers are small holes in the copper, like having a small pad
inside the hole for your big pad. It creates a dimple or detent into
which the drill bit can wander, or you can use it to "feel" when the
drill bit is properly centered. Or, you can use it to visually center
the drill bit. I've never used it myself, so I don't know how well it
works.

For example, here's a pad with a 0.155 mil drill:
http://www.delorie.com/tmp/helper.png

The small copper ring in the middle is the drill helper.

 

[Derek Hawkins]

Or, you can use it to visually center the drill bit

The only feasible option in my case. And for that I would want all the
magnification possible.

"DJ Delorie" <dj@delorie.com> wrote in message
news:xnd675naya.fsf@delorie.com...

"Derek Hawkins" <someone@somewhere.com> writes:
I assume the helpers help you align the drill in the first place

I thought they provided a path of least resistance centered within the
larger hole and less than the diameter of the bit itself causing the bit
to
"walk" if originally off center. If what you are referring to Is a
center
punch "island" using 1 or 2 oz copper then will accurate placement
really be
feasible without sufficient magnification with such a shallow punch?

The helpers are small holes in the copper, like having a small pad
inside the hole for your big pad. It creates a dimple or detent into
which the drill bit can wander, or you can use it to "feel" when the
drill bit is properly centered. Or, you can use it to visually center
the drill bit. I've never used it myself, so I don't know how well it
works.

For example, here's a pad with a 0.155 mil drill:
http://www.delorie.com/tmp/helper.png

The small copper ring in the middle is the drill helper.

 

[MaWin]

Concerned <someone@somewhere.com> schrieb im Beitrag <vdk7c.480$oF.12045@eagle.america.net>...

PCB drilling can often be a hit/miss scenario for some of us who can't
...

Forget drilling from the upside. Use a drill that comes thru a hole
in the bottom. Then a good lens with a crosshair on top and you get
nice holes without any dust. The hole is the same, even if drilled
from below.
--
Manfred Winterhoff, reply-to invalid, use mawin at despammed.com

 

[The other John Smith]

"Don Lancaster" <don@tinaja.com> wrote in message
news:405E020A.3F0814B9@tinaja.com...

The problem with a drilling template through a block of 1/4 aluminum is?

Accurately drilling the holes in the block.

 

[petrus bitbyter]

"Concerned" <someone@somewhere.com> schreef in bericht
news:vdk7c.480$oF.12045@eagle.america.net...

PCB drilling can often be a hit/miss scenario for some of us who can't
afford CNC machines or don't see the worth in having prototype boards done
by others. Even with SMD instead of thru-hole you'll still need to drill
holes, only much less. Use some form of magnification? Design the holes
smaller than the bit size and let the drill press runout do the rest? Yes,
this topic has been discussed over and over but as new equipment and
scenarios develop it probably should be revisited on a regular basis. And
on
this note, my particular interest is in advancements in the area of
magnification.

I started off using a magnification lamp probably like most others. Went
to
a magnification visor setup and currently use a SLR camera with a macro
setup. The latter allows me to fairly accurately drill holes without
depending on drill press runout and bit walk. Here's a link to basically
what is seen just before drilling starts;

http://image.pbase.com/u41/eldata/large/27140910.CRW_8443_1.jpg

What I'm now looking for is something better than this even if it entails
the use of a small B&W camera and monitor. Does anyone know of affordable
(less than $300.00) setups like this? Are there any other ideas?

I'm walking around with some ideas already. I have a bw cameras, lenses and
monitors but building it together is a mechanical job I don't like very
much. You have those cheap webcams these days - relatively cheap that is -
so I think about using such a thing. I still need to build something but not
an enclosure power supply etc. and I can program adjustable crosshairs on
the computer rather then using electronics. Only need to find some time...

petrus


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.618 / Virus Database: 397 - Release Date: 10-3-2004

 

[Leon Heller]

"MaWin" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:01c40f94$e3be6a20$0100007f@amdk6-300...

Concerned <someone@somewhere.com> schrieb im Beitrag
vdk7c.480$oF.12045@eagle.america.net>...

PCB drilling can often be a hit/miss scenario for some of us who can't
...

Forget drilling from the upside. Use a drill that comes thru a hole
in the bottom. Then a good lens with a crosshair on top and you get
nice holes without any dust. The hole is the same, even if drilled
from below.

That is how the old Excellon PCB drilling machines work. They have an
optical system giving a projected image of the pad on a large ground glass
screen.

Leon

 

[Active8]

On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 16:26:18 -0500, Derek Hawkins wrote:

but the other one gets off sometimes.

Agreed, but I find 3D awareness not only increases with practice
(subconscious pattern matching) but also with magnification. One can help
offset the other.

Some people don't have the best depth perception.

<snip>
--
Best Regards,
Mike

 

[Active8]

On 21 Mar 2004 22:32:59 GMT, MaWin wrote:

Concerned <someone@somewhere.com> schrieb im Beitrag <vdk7c.480$oF.12045@eagle.america.net>...

PCB drilling can often be a hit/miss scenario for some of us who can't
...

Forget drilling from the upside. Use a drill that comes thru a hole
in the bottom. Then a good lens with a crosshair on top and you get
nice holes without any dust. The hole is the same, even if drilled
from below.

Why not a laser pointer? Even if drilling from the top, it could
either be adjusted, or the workpiece could be set at the proper
height. There's a bottom drilling system called a Pindexer used in
dental labs that works like this.
--
Best Regards,
Mike

 

[Rob]

http://image.pbase.com/u41/eldata/large/27140910.CRW_8443_1.jpg

What I'm now looking for is something better than this even if it
entails
the use of a small B&W camera and monitor. Does anyone know of
affordable
(less than $300.00) setups like this? Are there any other ideas?



I'm walking around with some ideas already. I have a bw cameras, lenses
and
monitors but building it together is a mechanical job I don't like very
much. You have those cheap webcams these days - relatively cheap that is -
so I think about using such a thing. I still need to build something but
not
an enclosure power supply etc. and I can program adjustable crosshairs on
the computer rather then using electronics. Only need to find some time...

petrus


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.618 / Virus Database: 397 - Release Date: 10-3-2004

A web cam works ok. Use some plastic tubing to space the lens forward from
its normal position. The drawback is that it needs to be quite close to the
"observation" plane and you may need to feed light in from the sides
(LEDs?). I've only used the above for inspection, not drilling.
rob

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Active8 <reply2group@ndbbm.net>
wrote (in <171g1mg25cri2.dlg@news.individual.net&gt about 'Visual aids
for accurate PCB drilling', on Mon, 22 Mar 2004:

There's
a bottom drilling system called a Pindexer used in dental labs that
works like this.

Surely you mean proctology labs? (;-)
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk