Visible Condition of Arc Lamp Small 25W Flashlight Xenon Det

[Wild_Bill]

Are there visible indications such as internal metallic stains or other
signs of deterioration in small arc lamps?

I dunno what the metals are or anything else regarding materials.

The appearance is a thin tube with electrodes at each end, a single internal
metallic strip leading to a conical pointed pin, and a similar pointed pin
located at a gap of about 1/32" away.

Under close inspection with a magnifier, it appears that one pointed pin
(the one attached to the internal thin metal strip) isn't a sharp point, but
instead looks like metal has been deposited on it, from the other pin.
Both points look fairly sharp without magnification, but definitely not the
same when magnified.
I dunno which pin is positive/negative.

The overall length of the lamp is only about 2" (~50mm).

I suspect that when the gap becomes too large, the circuit will fail to
maintain an arc.. and a new replacement is necessary.

Any sources for small arc lamps approximately 2" long? The ones I've seen
are generally much larger when compared to this lamp, for projectors or
other high power uses (75, 100+ watts).

--
Cheers,
WB
..............

 

[N_Cook]

Wild_Bill <wb_wildbill@XSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:k2bct.770166$OJ2.18832@en-nntp-11.dc1.easynews.com...

Are there visible indications such as internal metallic stains or other
signs of deterioration in small arc lamps?

I dunno what the metals are or anything else regarding materials.

The appearance is a thin tube with electrodes at each end, a single
internal
metallic strip leading to a conical pointed pin, and a similar pointed pin
located at a gap of about 1/32" away.

Under close inspection with a magnifier, it appears that one pointed pin
(the one attached to the internal thin metal strip) isn't a sharp point,
but
instead looks like metal has been deposited on it, from the other pin.
Both points look fairly sharp without magnification, but definitely not
the
same when magnified.
I dunno which pin is positive/negative.

The overall length of the lamp is only about 2" (~50mm).

I suspect that when the gap becomes too large, the circuit will fail to
maintain an arc.. and a new replacement is necessary.

Any sources for small arc lamps approximately 2" long? The ones I've seen
are generally much larger when compared to this lamp, for projectors or
other high power uses (75, 100+ watts).

--
Cheers,
WB
.............

I assume there is an ignitor circuit as well as discharge supply.
Conventional or electronic ballast/supply ?
What would happen if you try a 100 watt industry standard one on the supply
you have? I suspect the
supply is voltage/current limited so won't be like trying to run a high
watt filament lamp from a low W supply, and would arc at 25W but at what
sort of colour though .

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Wild_Bill" <wb_wildbill@XSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:k2bct.770166$OJ2.18832@en-nntp-11.dc1.easynews.com...

Are there visible indications such as internal metallic stains or other
signs of deterioration in small arc lamps?

I dunno what the metals are or anything else regarding materials.

The appearance is a thin tube with electrodes at each end, a single
internal metallic strip leading to a conical pointed pin, and a similar
pointed pin located at a gap of about 1/32" away.

Under close inspection with a magnifier, it appears that one pointed pin
(the one attached to the internal thin metal strip) isn't a sharp point,
but instead looks like metal has been deposited on it, from the other pin.
Both points look fairly sharp without magnification, but definitely not
the same when magnified.
I dunno which pin is positive/negative.

The overall length of the lamp is only about 2" (~50mm).

I suspect that when the gap becomes too large, the circuit will fail to
maintain an arc.. and a new replacement is necessary.

Any sources for small arc lamps approximately 2" long? The ones I've seen
are generally much larger when compared to this lamp, for projectors or
other high power uses (75, 100+ watts).

--
Cheers,
WB
.............

I repair quite a few studio / theatre light fixtures that use short-arc
discharge lamps - although 150 watts is about the smallest - and it's hard
to tell the condition of those lamps just by looking at them. They do become
stained as they age, but that doesn't seem to be any kind of reliable
indicator as to the condition of the lamp. I have seen ones that are really
badly discoloured and cloudy, that seem to work just fine, and others that
look almost pristine, but will not arc up, or maintain. I keep a whole range
of known good lamps for the ones that I deal with, just to allow me to
substitute when a lamp is suspect. A slightly better indicator of condition
seems to be the number of strikes that are required to get it to maintain,
and how quickly it comes up to full output once it is burning. Measuring the
AC voltage across the lamp to see how long it takes to stabilize, is another
more accurate way to assess the same thing.

Arfa

 

[Wild_Bill]

Ya got me.. I dunno squat about these lamps or driver circuits.
The flashlight circuit is electronic, with a fairly large inductor
(relatively speaking compared to the numerous other components), at the one
output lead going to the lamp.

I've seen odd (to me) various specs indicating different lamp voltages such
as 59V, 87V.. I'm guessing that means after the arc has been established.

I have an older video projector with a bad 350W arc lamp, but it was an
obvious failure.. splattered onto the reflector.
Replacement was ~$300+, I'm waiting for an alternative or will salvage the
optics.

At the time, years ago, I asked here to see if anyone knew how to check the
lamp firing circuit or defeat it, but didn't see any replies.

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:kkricr$9q8$1@dont-email.me...

I assume there is an ignitor circuit as well as discharge supply.
Conventional or electronic ballast/supply ?
What would happen if you try a 100 watt industry standard one on the
supply
you have? I suspect the
supply is voltage/current limited so won't be like trying to run a high
watt filament lamp from a low W supply, and would arc at 25W but at what
sort of colour though .

 

[Wild_Bill]

Thanks Arfa.. I didn't know they were AC devices. I'd seen something about
arc lamps having a positive or negative polarity for a certain
electrode/pin, and one electrode that's commonly attached to a heat sinking
portion of the holder assembly.
(wikipedia, maybe)

What test instruments are used to check voltages?

What voltages are present at the time of striking the arc?

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
newszcct.12598$pP5.9277@fx24.fr7...

"Wild_Bill" <wb_wildbill@XSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:k2bct.770166$OJ2.18832@en-nntp-11.dc1.easynews.com...
Are there visible indications such as internal metallic stains or other
signs of deterioration in small arc lamps?

I dunno what the metals are or anything else regarding materials.

The appearance is a thin tube with electrodes at each end, a single
internal metallic strip leading to a conical pointed pin, and a similar
pointed pin located at a gap of about 1/32" away.

Under close inspection with a magnifier, it appears that one pointed pin
(the one attached to the internal thin metal strip) isn't a sharp point,
but instead looks like metal has been deposited on it, from the other
pin.
Both points look fairly sharp without magnification, but definitely not
the same when magnified.
I dunno which pin is positive/negative.

The overall length of the lamp is only about 2" (~50mm).

I suspect that when the gap becomes too large, the circuit will fail to
maintain an arc.. and a new replacement is necessary.

Any sources for small arc lamps approximately 2" long? The ones I've seen
are generally much larger when compared to this lamp, for projectors or
other high power uses (75, 100+ watts).

--
Cheers,
WB
.............



I repair quite a few studio / theatre light fixtures that use short-arc
discharge lamps - although 150 watts is about the smallest - and it's hard
to tell the condition of those lamps just by looking at them. They do
become stained as they age, but that doesn't seem to be any kind of
reliable indicator as to the condition of the lamp. I have seen ones that
are really badly discoloured and cloudy, that seem to work just fine, and
others that look almost pristine, but will not arc up, or maintain. I keep
a whole range of known good lamps for the ones that I deal with, just to
allow me to substitute when a lamp is suspect. A slightly better indicator
of condition seems to be the number of strikes that are required to get it
to maintain, and how quickly it comes up to full output once it is
burning. Measuring the AC voltage across the lamp to see how long it takes
to stabilize, is another more accurate way to assess the same thing.

Arfa

 

[Cydrome Leader]

Wild_Bill <wb_wildbill@xspamyahoo.com> wrote:

Thanks Arfa.. I didn't know they were AC devices. I'd seen something about
arc lamps having a positive or negative polarity for a certain
electrode/pin, and one electrode that's commonly attached to a heat sinking
portion of the holder assembly.
(wikipedia, maybe)

What test instruments are used to check voltages?

What voltages are present at the time of striking the arc?

well, there are AC and DC arc lamps. the OP never mentioned what the lamp
was installed in.

Some smaller sub 100 watt arc lamps have on voltage of 12 to 14
volts- it's really not much.

the strike voltage must be in the kv, and probably similar to a xenon
strobe tube in a camera.

 

[Jon Elson]

Wild_Bill wrote:

Are there visible indications such as internal metallic stains or other
signs of deterioration in small arc lamps?

I dunno what the metals are or anything else regarding materials.

The appearance is a thin tube with electrodes at each end, a single
internal metallic strip leading to a conical pointed pin, and a similar
pointed pin located at a gap of about 1/32" away.
This sounds like a short-arc lamp. Probably runs on about half an amp

at 60 V or so. Are you saying it has 3 terminals? I have seen some like
that, the 3rd terminal is for the igniter that sends a spark in to get
the plasma started. Note that these lamps can be quite dangerous.
They have a high gas pressure inside when cool, and run up to several
thousand PSI when running. They usually create quite an explosion when
they fail. So, you want something between you and the lamp at all times
when it is operating.

Do you have the entire device with power supply and igniter, or just the
lamp?

Jon

 

[Jon Elson]

Wild_Bill wrote:

Thanks Arfa.. I didn't know they were AC devices. I'd seen something about
arc lamps having a positive or negative polarity for a certain
electrode/pin, and one electrode that's commonly attached to a heat
sinking portion of the holder assembly.
(wikipedia, maybe)
Usually, the small ones, at least, are DC, and often have

different configurations for the two electrodes, ie. one is pointy,
the other is flatter.

What test instruments are used to check voltages?
DVM should be fine.

What voltages are present at the time of striking the arc?

At least several thousand volts, it is similar to automobile ignition

systems. The DC power supply needs to withstand this impulse, which
is a bit tricky.

Jon

 

[Wild_Bill]

Only 2 terminals, and definitely a short arc.. I can see the tips of the
electrodes are real close, heh.

I'd read about the heat and pressure precautions, and have seen a projector
arc lamp with a hole blown out the side of it, splattered onto the
reflector.. so I wouldn't be experimenting with a lamp that wasn't in a safe
enclosure.

The lamp is in a military surplus flashlight made by Xenonics.. the lamp
replacement costs I've seen have been $400+ yeah, just the lamp (75W lamp
with ballast from China $32 delivered, but I think I can guess which one is
better quality).

The Xenonics lamp is adjusted for optimum performance with their specially
designed reflector, so they say (although the head is adjustable for
spot/flood lighting.

I've noticed with high powered LEDs that the placement and reflector shape
is critical wrt throwing light. With a poor reflector, a powerful LED might
not even produce a spot across a room.

Some reading material I stumbled upon, for anyone interested
http://zeiss-campus.magnet.fsu.edu/articles/lightsources/xenonarc.html

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"Jon Elson" <jmelson@wustl.edu> wrote in message
news:fNednepYLoOPKezMnZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@giganews.com...

Wild_Bill wrote:

Are there visible indications such as internal metallic stains or other
signs of deterioration in small arc lamps?

I dunno what the metals are or anything else regarding materials.

The appearance is a thin tube with electrodes at each end, a single
internal metallic strip leading to a conical pointed pin, and a similar
pointed pin located at a gap of about 1/32" away.
This sounds like a short-arc lamp. Probably runs on about half an amp
at 60 V or so. Are you saying it has 3 terminals? I have seen some like
that, the 3rd terminal is for the igniter that sends a spark in to get
the plasma started. Note that these lamps can be quite dangerous.
They have a high gas pressure inside when cool, and run up to several
thousand PSI when running. They usually create quite an explosion when
they fail. So, you want something between you and the lamp at all times
when it is operating.

Do you have the entire device with power supply and igniter, or just the
lamp?

Jon

 

[Wild_Bill]

The lamp is in a military surplus flashlight made by Xenonics. Specs that
I've found state 25W or 35W, so I went with 25.

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"Cydrome Leader" <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote in message
news:kks29b$q2c$1@reader1.panix.com...

Wild_Bill <wb_wildbill@xspamyahoo.com> wrote:
Thanks Arfa.. I didn't know they were AC devices. I'd seen something
about
arc lamps having a positive or negative polarity for a certain
electrode/pin, and one electrode that's commonly attached to a heat
sinking
portion of the holder assembly.
(wikipedia, maybe)

What test instruments are used to check voltages?

What voltages are present at the time of striking the arc?

well, there are AC and DC arc lamps. the OP never mentioned what the lamp
was installed in.

Some smaller sub 100 watt arc lamps have on voltage of 12 to 14
volts- it's really not much.

the strike voltage must be in the kv, and probably similar to a xenon
strobe tube in a camera.

 

[gregz]

Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> wrote:

Wild_Bill wrote:

Thanks Arfa.. I didn't know they were AC devices. I'd seen something about
arc lamps having a positive or negative polarity for a certain
electrode/pin, and one electrode that's commonly attached to a heat
sinking portion of the holder assembly.
(wikipedia, maybe)
Usually, the small ones, at least, are DC, and often have
different configurations for the two electrodes, ie. one is pointy,
the other is flatter.

What test instruments are used to check voltages?
DVM should be fine.

What voltages are present at the time of striking the arc?

At least several thousand volts, it is similar to automobile ignition
systems. The DC power supply needs to withstand this impulse, which
is a bit tricky.

Jon

I've had trouble with installing in the wrong direction. Some sockets I've
worked on are not foolproof.

Greg

 

[Wild_Bill]

Thanks.. these lamps are seated in a (ceramic maybe) base shaped so it only
connects in one direction.

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"gregz" <zekor@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1969416543388104533.025433zekor-comcast.net@news.eternal-september.org...

Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> wrote:
Wild_Bill wrote:

Thanks Arfa.. I didn't know they were AC devices. I'd seen something
about
arc lamps having a positive or negative polarity for a certain
electrode/pin, and one electrode that's commonly attached to a heat
sinking portion of the holder assembly.
(wikipedia, maybe)
Usually, the small ones, at least, are DC, and often have
different configurations for the two electrodes, ie. one is pointy,
the other is flatter.

What test instruments are used to check voltages?
DVM should be fine.

What voltages are present at the time of striking the arc?

At least several thousand volts, it is similar to automobile ignition
systems. The DC power supply needs to withstand this impulse, which
is a bit tricky.

Jon

I've had trouble with installing in the wrong direction. Some sockets I've
worked on are not foolproof.

Greg

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Wild_Bill" <wb_wildbill@XSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:I9dct.770168$OJ2.750214@en-nntp-11.dc1.easynews.com...

Thanks Arfa.. I didn't know they were AC devices. I'd seen something about
arc lamps having a positive or negative polarity for a certain
electrode/pin, and one electrode that's commonly attached to a heat
sinking portion of the holder assembly.
(wikipedia, maybe)

What test instruments are used to check voltages?

What voltages are present at the time of striking the arc?

--
Cheers,
WB

The ones that I work with take a couple of kV or so to strike them. The
ignitor circuit is often a small sealed unit that hangs directly across the
lamp. All of the ones that I deal with are AC. Some of the lighting fixtures
use an electronic ballast with a low frequency half bridge driver circuit
based on a pair of FETs and a hi / lo side driver chip, and some use a
simple passive magnetic ballast similar to what you would find in an (older)
linear fluorescent light fixture.

I use an ordinary analogue multimeter - actually a British AVO 8 MkIV - to
read the running voltage, set to its AC 100 or 250 volt range. I knocked up
a little tester for the strike voltage, based on the xenon flash tube from a
disposable camera.

The typical run voltage across the lamp is 90 to 100 volts. This does vary a
bit as the lamp ages. Most of the ignitor circuits that I've seen seem to be
high impedance affairs that just shut down once the arc is struck,
presumably as a result of the lamp impedance dropping right down once it is
burning.

I have an extremely good and understandable pdf (approx 3.5MB) on discharge
lamps. If you, or anyone else would like a copy, just mail me off-group at
the address used to post this, and I'll forward a copy to a valid email
address

Arfa

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Jon Elson" <jmelson@wustl.edu> wrote in message
news:fNednepYLoOPKezMnZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@giganews.com...

Wild_Bill wrote:

Are there visible indications such as internal metallic stains or other
signs of deterioration in small arc lamps?

I dunno what the metals are or anything else regarding materials.

The appearance is a thin tube with electrodes at each end, a single
internal metallic strip leading to a conical pointed pin, and a similar
pointed pin located at a gap of about 1/32" away.
This sounds like a short-arc lamp. Probably runs on about half an amp
at 60 V or so. Are you saying it has 3 terminals? I have seen some like
that, the 3rd terminal is for the igniter that sends a spark in to get
the plasma started. Note that these lamps can be quite dangerous.
They have a high gas pressure inside when cool, and run up to several
thousand PSI when running. They usually create quite an explosion when
they fail. So, you want something between you and the lamp at all times
when it is operating.

I had quite a big one - around 250 watts as I recall - explode on me in a
fixture that I had on the bench. It was one that had an electronic ballast,
and the current monitoring circuit had failed ... Mind, it was jolly bright
before it went bang ... !!

Arfa

Do you have the entire device with power supply and igniter, or just the
lamp?

Jon

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Wild_Bill" <wb_wildbill@XSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
newsnlct.287195$6q1.28569@en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com...

Only 2 terminals, and definitely a short arc.. I can see the tips of the
electrodes are real close, heh.

I'd read about the heat and pressure precautions, and have seen a
projector arc lamp with a hole blown out the side of it, splattered onto
the reflector.. so I wouldn't be experimenting with a lamp that wasn't in
a safe enclosure.

The lamp is in a military surplus flashlight made by Xenonics.. the lamp
replacement costs I've seen have been $400+ yeah, just the lamp (75W lamp
with ballast from China $32 delivered, but I think I can guess which one
is better quality).

The Xenonics lamp is adjusted for optimum performance with their specially
designed reflector, so they say (although the head is adjustable for
spot/flood lighting.

Most of the lighting fixtures that I work with that employ these lamps, have
the holder mounted on a three-point-fix plate. The three points are usually
spring-loaded screws, and allow the lamp position to be accurately set in
the reflector for maximum 'even-ness' of the light output

I've noticed with high powered LEDs that the placement and reflector shape
is critical wrt throwing light. With a poor reflector, a powerful LED
might not even produce a spot across a room.

The optics of a power LED based lighting source are critical compared to an
arc discharge lamp, because the LED emits from one plane only, whereas the
arc lamp emits from all directions - allbeit with shadowing from the ends
where the lamp has connections at either end. Most of the ones that I deal
with are bi-pin, so the light is emitted pretty much without interruption in
all directions.

Arfa

Some reading material I stumbled upon, for anyone interested
http://zeiss-campus.magnet.fsu.edu/articles/lightsources/xenonarc.html

--
Cheers,
WB
.............


"Jon Elson" <jmelson@wustl.edu> wrote in message
news:fNednepYLoOPKezMnZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@giganews.com...
Wild_Bill wrote:

Are there visible indications such as internal metallic stains or other
signs of deterioration in small arc lamps?

I dunno what the metals are or anything else regarding materials.

The appearance is a thin tube with electrodes at each end, a single
internal metallic strip leading to a conical pointed pin, and a similar
pointed pin located at a gap of about 1/32" away.
This sounds like a short-arc lamp. Probably runs on about half an amp
at 60 V or so. Are you saying it has 3 terminals? I have seen some like
that, the 3rd terminal is for the igniter that sends a spark in to get
the plasma started. Note that these lamps can be quite dangerous.
They have a high gas pressure inside when cool, and run up to several
thousand PSI when running. They usually create quite an explosion when
they fail. So, you want something between you and the lamp at all times
when it is operating.

Do you have the entire device with power supply and igniter, or just the
lamp?

Jon

 

[Cydrome Leader]

Wild_Bill <wb_wildbill@xspamyahoo.com> wrote:

The lamp is in a military surplus flashlight made by Xenonics. Specs that
I've found state 25W or 35W, so I went with 25.

They look like what a Maxabeam would be if they were designed after the
1980s. Maxabeams do have a pretty pronounced "black hole" that xenonic is
obviously referring to.

I have a Maxabeam, and to be honest it's pretty crude. It has to be the
last product I got with a nicad battery pack, and a super corny control
switch that the manual warns will break if you touch it in certain
positions or something weird like that. The battery charger has no
electronics, it's just an "overnight" type thing that will sure kill the
batteries if left in there too long.

It needs a new power connector, but I've not opened it yet. I get the
feeling it's potted or glued or somehow a mess to open and will involved
touching the bulb and reflector.

It does sound like a really old swith mode power supply when it last ran
though.

 

[Cydrome Leader]

Wild_Bill <wb_wildbill@xspamyahoo.com> wrote:

Ya got me.. I dunno squat about these lamps or driver circuits.
The flashlight circuit is electronic, with a fairly large inductor
(relatively speaking compared to the numerous other components), at the one
output lead going to the lamp.

I've seen odd (to me) various specs indicating different lamp voltages such
as 59V, 87V.. I'm guessing that means after the arc has been established.

I have an older video projector with a bad 350W arc lamp, but it was an
obvious failure.. splattered onto the reflector.
Replacement was ~$300+, I'm waiting for an alternative or will salvage the
optics.

At the time, years ago, I asked here to see if anyone knew how to check the
lamp firing circuit or defeat it, but didn't see any replies.

I can't speak for your light, but I did just open the Maxabeam MBS-410
here, from around 1999.

There's a giant rod inductor feeding the HV side of the arc lamp. Around
this are a few heavy turns of wire going to a spark gap (really) HV diode
and a 5kV rated blue dipped ceramic cap. Feeding this is one of those Rf
transformers wound on itself like a roll of twine with a little tunable
ceramic slug inside. If it wasn't sealed in wax, I swear it's from some
Zenith telvision set from the 1970s, with all the modules.

So it looks like something drives the tuning coil, that with the diode
charges the cap and then the spark gap fires and that discharges into the
heavy 5 turn winding on the inductor feeding the lamp. I'm going to guess
that's the ignitor part. All these parts have red gylptal on solder sides
and are sort of glued into place so I'm not going to distrupt them.

The low voltrage side of the lamp goes over to a section hidden in the
read housing casting with at least two large power devices, bolted to
aluminum spacers which are then screwed into the rear casting. I'm going
to avoid messing with that for now, if I can get to the rear power
connector. There are gaskets in places for fake moisture sealing, and the
power connector flags is "sealed" to the casting with some sort of
silicone "slime". A bunch of other screws that peice the extrusion of the
body itself have no sealing of any sort. In there I can see one of those
two ferrite cups style transformer about 7/8 inch tall. This must turn the
~ 12 volts into into whatever the lamp runs on.

The device that focuses the lamp is an actual RC servo. Brilliant, simple,
hillarious. That pushes a rod that slides the lamp back and forth.

The electronics board slides out of the aluminum body extrusion and has
banana connectors that feed the lamp. Nice design.

The PCB is conformal coated and the layout was done by hand. The largest
cap is quasi name brand (Sprague), and the semiconductors don't have
ground off numbers. There's a SMD microcontrller on a piggyback board
taking the space of 28 pin DIP. Old school.

I could probably post photos if anybody is curious.

 

[Wild_Bill]

Wuuf! the Maxbeam looks like a monster, but the chart shows it weighs only
3.3 lbs.
http://searchlights.peakbeam.com/item/mbs-410-series-searchlights/75w-xenon-handheld-searchlight/mbs-410
Is that weight correct?

The single-hand control to change from flood to spot would definitely be
handy.

The adjustable strobe could be a cool feature. Xenonics and maybe others are
working on high intensity lighting that pulses/strobes for riot/crowd
control, according to something I read recently.
Trouble is, eplieptic persons may end up going into seizure induced by
flashes at a certain rate (so I've heard, I forget what the rate is).

The Nighthunter isn't a light you'd want to drop on your bare foot.
The beam adjustment flood/spot is accomplished by turning the head, just
like the Brinkmann mini flashlight I bought decades ago.

Pics of the NightHunter II innards with basic descriptions are in a Flickr
Set:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52345158@N03/8671927590/in/set-72157633303458172/

The lamp's arc gap:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52345158@N03/8670824603/in/set-72157633303458172/

The circuit board is silkscreened with a date code indicating the 52nd week
of 2004, which may just represent that version of the board.

There are a lot of China arc lamp flashlights on eBag priced roughly about
$100.

I wouldn't have a clue about other lamps' specs, but a pair of car/truck HID
headlamp bulbs with the balast/inverter can be had for a mere $12.

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"Cydrome Leader" <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote in message
news:kkveo7$osq$1@reader1.panix.com...

I can't speak for your light, but I did just open the Maxabeam MBS-410
here, from around 1999.

There's a giant rod inductor feeding the HV side of the arc lamp. Around
this are a few heavy turns of wire going to a spark gap (really) HV diode
and a 5kV rated blue dipped ceramic cap. Feeding this is one of those Rf
transformers wound on itself like a roll of twine with a little tunable
ceramic slug inside. If it wasn't sealed in wax, I swear it's from some
Zenith telvision set from the 1970s, with all the modules.

So it looks like something drives the tuning coil, that with the diode
charges the cap and then the spark gap fires and that discharges into the
heavy 5 turn winding on the inductor feeding the lamp. I'm going to guess
that's the ignitor part. All these parts have red gylptal on solder sides
and are sort of glued into place so I'm not going to distrupt them.

The low voltrage side of the lamp goes over to a section hidden in the
read housing casting with at least two large power devices, bolted to
aluminum spacers which are then screwed into the rear casting. I'm going
to avoid messing with that for now, if I can get to the rear power
connector. There are gaskets in places for fake moisture sealing, and the
power connector flags is "sealed" to the casting with some sort of
silicone "slime". A bunch of other screws that peice the extrusion of the
body itself have no sealing of any sort. In there I can see one of those
two ferrite cups style transformer about 7/8 inch tall. This must turn the
~ 12 volts into into whatever the lamp runs on.

The device that focuses the lamp is an actual RC servo. Brilliant, simple,
hillarious. That pushes a rod that slides the lamp back and forth.

The electronics board slides out of the aluminum body extrusion and has
banana connectors that feed the lamp. Nice design.

The PCB is conformal coated and the layout was done by hand. The largest
cap is quasi name brand (Sprague), and the semiconductors don't have
ground off numbers. There's a SMD microcontrller on a piggyback board
taking the space of 28 pin DIP. Old school.

I could probably post photos if anybody is curious.

 

[Cydrome Leader]

Wild_Bill <wb_wildbill@xspamyahoo.com> wrote:

Wuuf! the Maxbeam looks like a monster, but the chart shows it weighs only
3.3 lbs.
http://searchlights.peakbeam.com/item/mbs-410-series-searchlights/75w-xenon-handheld-searchlight/mbs-410
Is that weight correct?

yeah, it's correct- but you need a battery pack or 12 volt power supply to
run it. The standard nicad battery is maybe another 4 pounds or so, it's
not too bad, but not something you'd hang off your belt. It has the
typical generic nylon uncomfortable shoulder strap.

The single-hand control to change from flood to spot would definitely be
handy.

The adjustable strobe could be a cool feature. Xenonics and maybe others are
working on high intensity lighting that pulses/strobes for riot/crowd
control, according to something I read recently.
Trouble is, eplieptic persons may end up going into seizure induced by
flashes at a certain rate (so I've heard, I forget what the rate is).

I've never seen and real proof that flashing lights disperse crowds. All
the flashlight manufacturers say it's so, but none can back it up.

The Nighthunter isn't a light you'd want to drop on your bare foot.
The beam adjustment flood/spot is accomplished by turning the head, just
like the Brinkmann mini flashlight I bought decades ago.

Pics of the NightHunter II innards with basic descriptions are in a Flickr
Set:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52345158@N03/8671927590/in/set-72157633303458172/

The lamp's arc gap:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52345158@N03/8670824603/in/set-72157633303458172/

The circuit board is silkscreened with a date code indicating the 52nd week
of 2004, which may just represent that version of the board.

that board is far more complex than what maxabeam uses.

There are a lot of China arc lamp flashlights on eBag priced roughly about
$100.

I wouldn't have a clue about other lamps' specs, but a pair of car/truck HID
headlamp bulbs with the balast/inverter can be had for a mere $12.

I wonder how anybody makes money on stuff that cheap.

 

[Wild_Bill]

The N-H II weighs 4.5 lbs with a battery and could be downright
uncomfortable to carry for extended periods without the shoulder strap.

The version of circuit board I took the pics of is a bit more advanced than
some other/earlier N-H II models. The pics show the version that includes a
charging circuit, whereas some other models require an external
charger/holder assembly.

The newer one can be powered by or recharged by external sources from
12-32VDC (so they say) by connecting a cable to the end cap connector, which
the older ones don't have.

A 12V source may not be enough voltage to maintain an arc, as they don't
work well from a 12V 5Ah SLA jumper pack power source.
They do light reliably from the original 14.4V NIMH 4Ah battery packs (12pcs
4/3 N cells).

I think it's unlikely that cheap goods would be available if not for
government subsidies at each end essentially resulting in free global
distribution of low cost goods.
The old addage was *it's cheaper to make those things over there*, but even
if it was ever true, transport to the US, warehousing and national
distribution here aren't reflected in the selling cost of these cheap goods.
The Pacific is a big ocean and air cargo can't be cheap either.

I've read that mailing/shipping a small package to China is expensive
(returning a defective product, for example), but when the USPS accepts
items mailed via China Post, apparently it is cheap.
Since eBag sellers in China commonly sell stuff for cheap with shipping
included, this also suggests other economic factors are involved.
I remember when eBag first set up commerce with China sellers, and reading
how proud they were that they had accomplished (negotiated) the deals.. so
maybe they're another investor in China trade.

Lately I've seen a number of articles stating that the constant flood of
cheap goods from China is going to be drastically decreasing or slowly
coming to an end.. we'll see.

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"Cydrome Leader" <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote in message
news:klkiqc$sct$3@reader1.panix.com...

Wild_Bill <wb_wildbill@xspamyahoo.com> wrote:
Wuuf! the Maxbeam looks like a monster, but the chart shows it weighs
only
3.3 lbs.
http://searchlights.peakbeam.com/item/mbs-410-series-searchlights/75w-xenon-handheld-searchlight/mbs-410
Is that weight correct?

yeah, it's correct- but you need a battery pack or 12 volt power supply to
run it. The standard nicad battery is maybe another 4 pounds or so, it's
not too bad, but not something you'd hang off your belt. It has the
typical generic nylon uncomfortable shoulder strap.


The single-hand control to change from flood to spot would definitely be
handy.

The adjustable strobe could be a cool feature. Xenonics and maybe others
are
working on high intensity lighting that pulses/strobes for riot/crowd
control, according to something I read recently.
Trouble is, eplieptic persons may end up going into seizure induced by
flashes at a certain rate (so I've heard, I forget what the rate is).

I've never seen and real proof that flashing lights disperse crowds. All
the flashlight manufacturers say it's so, but none can back it up.

The Nighthunter isn't a light you'd want to drop on your bare foot.
The beam adjustment flood/spot is accomplished by turning the head, just
like the Brinkmann mini flashlight I bought decades ago.

Pics of the NightHunter II innards with basic descriptions are in a
Flickr
Set:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52345158@N03/8671927590/in/set-72157633303458172/

The lamp's arc gap:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52345158@N03/8670824603/in/set-72157633303458172/

The circuit board is silkscreened with a date code indicating the 52nd
week
of 2004, which may just represent that version of the board.

that board is far more complex than what maxabeam uses.


There are a lot of China arc lamp flashlights on eBag priced roughly
about
$100.

I wouldn't have a clue about other lamps' specs, but a pair of car/truck
HID
headlamp bulbs with the balast/inverter can be had for a mere $12.

I wonder how anybody makes money on stuff that cheap.