variable electromagnet

[archi]

dear all,

i would like to build a variable electromagnet that is directly
connected to a computer controlled (220v AC) dimming unit. i suppose
that dimming the electric current will lower the magnetic field and
thus its attractive force? the (somewhat creative) goal is to
gradually attract light weight suspended metal parts depending on the
dimming unit output.

- is this possible? if so, could you give any tips what to do or where
to look?
- dangerous? (e.g. to nearby computers or other electric equipment)
- what would be the range of such a electromagnet? the suspended
objects will be very light but some object-magnet distance should be
kept.

thankx beforehand for any help!

- Andre.

 

[John Popelish]

archi wrote:

dear all,

i would like to build a variable electromagnet that is directly
connected to a computer controlled (220v AC) dimming unit. i suppose
that dimming the electric current will lower the magnetic field and
thus its attractive force? the (somewhat creative) goal is to
gradually attract light weight suspended metal parts depending on the
dimming unit output.

- is this possible? if so, could you give any tips what to do or where
to look?
- dangerous? (e.g. to nearby computers or other electric equipment)
- what would be the range of such a electromagnet? the suspended
objects will be very light but some object-magnet distance should be
kept.

thankx beforehand for any help!

- Andre.

You are not making this easy on yourself by starting with a 220 volt
AC dimming unit. It is not trivial to link this to a computer, and it
involves obviously lethal voltage.

I think you should read up on the concept of a buck switching
regulator that is operated in current control mode. This could be run
from any DC supply you might have, including an automotive battery
charger.

Here is a link to a tutorial on the concept of a buck regulator. The
inductor in the regulator would be your lifting electromagnet.

http://www.national.com/appinfo/power/files/f5.pdf

To operate a buck regulator in current control, you need a way to
measure the coil current, and a low value resistor in series with the
ground end is one way to produce a signal that represents the
current. For starters, you can ignore the current and just control
the on off duty cycle.

--
John Popelish

 

[andre]

John Popelish wrote:

archi wrote:

dear all,

i would like to build a variable electromagnet that is directly
connected to a computer controlled (220v AC) dimming unit. i
suppose
that dimming the electric current will lower the magnetic field and
thus its attractive force? the (somewhat creative) goal is to
gradually attract light weight suspended metal parts depending on
the
dimming unit output.

- is this possible? if so, could you give any tips what to do or
where
to look?
- dangerous? (e.g. to nearby computers or other electric equipment)
- what would be the range of such a electromagnet? the suspended
objects will be very light but some object-magnet distance should
be
kept.

thankx beforehand for any help!

- Andre.

You are not making this easy on yourself by starting with a 220 volt
AC dimming unit. It is not trivial to link this to a computer, and
it
involves obviously lethal voltage.

I think you should read up on the concept of a buck switching
regulator that is operated in current control mode. This could be
run
from any DC supply you might have, including an automotive battery
charger.

Here is a link to a tutorial on the concept of a buck regulator. The
inductor in the regulator would be your lifting electromagnet.

http://www.national.com/appinfo/power/files/f5.pdf

To operate a buck regulator in current control, you need a way to
measure the coil current, and a low value resistor in series with the
ground end is one way to produce a signal that represents the
current. For starters, you can ignore the current and just control
the on off duty cycle.

--
John Popelish

 

[andre]

John Popelish wrote:

archi wrote:

dear all,

i would like to build a variable electromagnet that is directly
connected to a computer controlled (220v AC) dimming unit. i
suppose
that dimming the electric current will lower the magnetic field and
thus its attractive force? the (somewhat creative) goal is to
gradually attract light weight suspended metal parts depending on
the
dimming unit output.

- is this possible? if so, could you give any tips what to do or
where
to look?
- dangerous? (e.g. to nearby computers or other electric equipment)
- what would be the range of such a electromagnet? the suspended
objects will be very light but some object-magnet distance should
be
kept.

thankx beforehand for any help!

- Andre.

You are not making this easy on yourself by starting with a 220 volt
AC dimming unit. It is not trivial to link this to a computer, and
it
involves obviously lethal voltage.

I think you should read up on the concept of a buck switching
regulator that is operated in current control mode. This could be
run
from any DC supply you might have, including an automotive battery
charger.

Here is a link to a tutorial on the concept of a buck regulator. The
inductor in the regulator would be your lifting electromagnet.

http://www.national.com/appinfo/power/files/f5.pdf

To operate a buck regulator in current control, you need a way to
measure the coil current, and a low value resistor in series with the
ground end is one way to produce a signal that represents the
current. For starters, you can ignore the current and just control
the on off duty cycle.

--
John Popelish

thankx for your rapid answer. the computer-controlled dimmer is the
'easy' part, as i received one 2nd hand. this equipment is already
fully functioning, and thus the reason for the 240v AC constraint.
however, i don't know where to buy or how to make such electromagnets,
if they can be used for long time spans in safe conditions and whether
they are able to attract light metal objects about 10 inches away.
- Andre.
---

 

[John Popelish]

andre wrote:

thankx for your rapid answer. the computer-controlled dimmer is the
'easy' part, as i received one 2nd hand. this equipment is already
fully functioning, and thus the reason for the 240v AC constraint.
however, i don't know where to buy or how to make such electromagnets,
if they can be used for long time spans in safe conditions and whether
they are able to attract light metal objects about 10 inches away.

But from the sophistication of your question, I fear for your safety
if you use it to start your experiments.

Some generalities:

The reach of an electromagnet follows its size. If you want to
attract metal from 10 inches away, you will need to think in tens of a
coil with this scale of dimensions. Before you build a big one, scale
the whole thing down and learn with a small model.

Coils run with AC are not as useful at attracting things than coils
run on DC (they make things hum and make iron cores hot from eddy
current), so you will probably need a rectifier between your dimmer
and the coil. This may make the dimmer work strangely.

A safer way to use the 240 dimmer would be to drive a step down
transformer with it and do all your experiments on the low voltage
(say, below 30 volts) side after you tape up all the high voltage
terminals. Don't forget to add a fuse on the line side to keep an
oops from making the dimmer and/or transformer burst into flames.

An iron core through the coil will concentrate the magnetic field but
also retain some field when the current is off.

--
John Popelish

 

[Robert Monsen]

John Popelish wrote:

andre wrote:


thankx for your rapid answer. the computer-controlled dimmer is the
'easy' part, as i received one 2nd hand. this equipment is already
fully functioning, and thus the reason for the 240v AC constraint.
however, i don't know where to buy or how to make such electromagnets,
if they can be used for long time spans in safe conditions and whether
they are able to attract light metal objects about 10 inches away.


But from the sophistication of your question, I fear for your safety
if you use it to start your experiments.

Some generalities:

The reach of an electromagnet follows its size. If you want to
attract metal from 10 inches away, you will need to think in tens of a
coil with this scale of dimensions. Before you build a big one, scale
the whole thing down and learn with a small model.

Coils run with AC are not as useful at attracting things than coils
run on DC (they make things hum and make iron cores hot from eddy
current), so you will probably need a rectifier between your dimmer
and the coil. This may make the dimmer work strangely.

A safer way to use the 240 dimmer would be to drive a step down
transformer with it and do all your experiments on the low voltage
(say, below 30 volts) side after you tape up all the high voltage
terminals. Don't forget to add a fuse on the line side to keep an
oops from making the dimmer and/or transformer burst into flames.

An iron core through the coil will concentrate the magnetic field but
also retain some field when the current is off.

John, what about a variac? Then, all he needs is a beefy diode ( and the
magnet coil, of course ).

--
Regards,
Robert Monsen

"Your Highness, I have no need of this hypothesis."
- Pierre Laplace (1749-1827), to Napoleon,
on why his works on celestial mechanics make no mention of God.

 

[John Popelish]

Robert Monsen wrote:

John Popelish wrote:
andre wrote:


thankx for your rapid answer. the computer-controlled dimmer is the
'easy' part, as i received one 2nd hand. this equipment is already
fully functioning, and thus the reason for the 240v AC constraint.
however, i don't know where to buy or how to make such electromagnets,
if they can be used for long time spans in safe conditions and whether
they are able to attract light metal objects about 10 inches away.


But from the sophistication of your question, I fear for your safety
if you use it to start your experiments.

Some generalities:

The reach of an electromagnet follows its size. If you want to
attract metal from 10 inches away, you will need to think in tens of a
coil with this scale of dimensions. Before you build a big one, scale
the whole thing down and learn with a small model.

Coils run with AC are not as useful at attracting things than coils
run on DC (they make things hum and make iron cores hot from eddy
current), so you will probably need a rectifier between your dimmer
and the coil. This may make the dimmer work strangely.

A safer way to use the 240 dimmer would be to drive a step down
transformer with it and do all your experiments on the low voltage
(say, below 30 volts) side after you tape up all the high voltage
terminals. Don't forget to add a fuse on the line side to keep an
oops from making the dimmer and/or transformer burst into flames.

An iron core through the coil will concentrate the magnetic field but
also retain some field when the current is off.


John, what about a variac? Then, all he needs is a beefy diode ( and the
magnet coil, of course ).

The OP seems determined to use a computer controlled dimmer.

--
John Popelish

 

[D Akers]

"i would like to build a variable electromagnet that is directly
connected to a computer controlled (220v AC) dimming unit. i suppose
that dimming the electric current will lower the magnetic field and thus
its attractive force? the (somewhat creative) goal is to gradually
attract light weight suspended metal parts depending on the dimming unit
output.
- is this possible? if so, could you give any tips what to do or where
to look?
- dangerous? (e.g. to nearby computers or other electric equipment)
- what would be the range of such a electromagnet? the suspended objects
will be very light but some object-magnet distance should be kept."
___________________________________
Re;
Not sure about the AC dimmer control part; but I would suggest that you
use a full wave rectifier to provide DC current to the magnet coil. I
would also recommend that you use a soft iron core to minimize magnetic
"memory". You can scavenge them from discarded AM radios; they are used
in the "antennae coil". They are also found in some large inductors.
Assuming that would be meet your needs. Just remember that the magnetic
field strength will be proportional to the number of turns of wire you
wind around the core and the magnitude of the DC current flowing through
it. The more turns the greater the field strength. Thus, even a very
small current can create a powerful field with a large number of turns.
The "range" of the field will depend upon it's shape and that in turn
depends on the geometry of the coil/core assembly. If the ratio of the
length to diameter is greater, then the range of the field will be
greater.
You may also need a power resistor between the rectifier and coil to
provide the current control you desire. The characteristics of the AC
controller will determine this.
Yes, strong DC magnetic fields can do strange things to the electron
beam of cathode ray tubes; but they usually recover during the auto
degauss at start-up.
I hope that helps in some way...

-Dan Akers