USB Supercharging...

[Don Y]

Cripes, the \"standard mangling\" seems without end! :>

These:
<https://www.newegg.com/p/1B4-079T-0DYR2>
(specifically the Lenovo ADL40WLC) present a USB A connector
(color coded black, not blue or white).

A mating cable eventually terminates in an ORANGE USB A-ish
(see inset in photo) connector with a deformed shell (no doubt
to keep folks from plugging it where it doesn\'t belong!)

The specifications state:
- 20V 3.25A or
- 5.2V 2A
- 65W

I am assuming there is some signalling done on the data pair
to \"tell\" the charger which mode the \"client\" requires?
(as has been done in early \"standard mangling\")

Sheesh, now I\'ve got a third type of cable to keep track of...

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 22 Jun 2023 06:08:07 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

Cripes, the \"standard mangling\" seems without end! :

These:
https://www.newegg.com/p/1B4-079T-0DYR2
(specifically the Lenovo ADL40WLC) present a USB A connector
(color coded black, not blue or white).

A mating cable eventually terminates in an ORANGE USB A-ish
(see inset in photo) connector with a deformed shell (no doubt
to keep folks from plugging it where it doesn\'t belong!)

But it\'s Universal!

The specifications state:
- 20V 3.25A or
- 5.2V 2A
- 65W

I am assuming there is some signalling done on the data pair
to \"tell\" the charger which mode the \"client\" requires?
(as has been done in early \"standard mangling\")

Sheesh, now I\'ve got a third type of cable to keep track of...

USB power has got to be shockingly complex. So has PoE.

Both are potentially dangerous, what with people selling dirt-cheap
power supplies, endpoints, and cables with bogus UL and CE symbols
molded into the plastic.

It\'s funny how many different cables and connectors the \"universal\"
serial bus has. And how many times it takes to get them to mate, or to
not mate. Well, maybe not so funny.

USBC is OK, so far. I think the EU wants to make it a law.

Thank goodness Ethernet is still a standard RJ connector! And there
are only about 8 types of cable.

 

[Eddy Lee]

On Thursday, June 22, 2023 at 6:56:43 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jun 2023 06:08:07 -0700, Don Y
blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:

Cripes, the \"standard mangling\" seems without end! :

These:
https://www.newegg.com/p/1B4-079T-0DYR2
(specifically the Lenovo ADL40WLC) present a USB A connector
(color coded black, not blue or white).

A mating cable eventually terminates in an ORANGE USB A-ish
(see inset in photo) connector with a deformed shell (no doubt
to keep folks from plugging it where it doesn\'t belong!)
But it\'s Universal!

And it can charge my Leaf in a week!!!

using 16V -> 48V -> 384V bi-directional transparent bridge

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 22 Jun 2023 07:06:46 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
<eddy711lee@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, June 22, 2023 at 6:56:43?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 22 Jun 2023 06:08:07 -0700, Don Y
blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:

Cripes, the \"standard mangling\" seems without end! :

These:
https://www.newegg.com/p/1B4-079T-0DYR2
(specifically the Lenovo ADL40WLC) present a USB A connector
(color coded black, not blue or white).

A mating cable eventually terminates in an ORANGE USB A-ish
(see inset in photo) connector with a deformed shell (no doubt
to keep folks from plugging it where it doesn\'t belong!)
But it\'s Universal!

And it can charge my Leaf in a week!!!

using 16V -> 48V -> 384V bi-directional transparent bridge

You can charge your car from a USB wart? Or a laptop?

My phone has a USBC connector. It never ocurred to me to see if it
works as a power supply.

 

[Eddy Lee]

On Thursday, June 22, 2023 at 7:18:11 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jun 2023 07:06:46 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, June 22, 2023 at 6:56:43?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 22 Jun 2023 06:08:07 -0700, Don Y
blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:

Cripes, the \"standard mangling\" seems without end! :

These:
https://www.newegg.com/p/1B4-079T-0DYR2
(specifically the Lenovo ADL40WLC) present a USB A connector
(color coded black, not blue or white).

A mating cable eventually terminates in an ORANGE USB A-ish
(see inset in photo) connector with a deformed shell (no doubt
to keep folks from plugging it where it doesn\'t belong!)
But it\'s Universal!

And it can charge my Leaf in a week!!!

using 16V -> 48V -> 384V bi-directional transparent bridge
You can charge your car from a USB wart? Or a laptop?

Charging 16V 1KWhr modules from the wall. Using 3 of them to boost to 384V..

Ordered some heavy duty relays (30A) last week from Oakland to SF, to work on the bi-directional bridge. Fed-Ex is taking the package to Stockton. It will cross the Bay in two weeks. I demand a refund of the 3 days free-shipping cost.

https://www.fedex.com/fedextrack/?trknbr=61299998825444410675

 

[Dimiter_Popoff]

On 6/22/2023 17:17, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jun 2023 07:06:46 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy711lee@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, June 22, 2023 at 6:56:43?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 22 Jun 2023 06:08:07 -0700, Don Y
blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:

Cripes, the \"standard mangling\" seems without end! :

These:
https://www.newegg.com/p/1B4-079T-0DYR2
(specifically the Lenovo ADL40WLC) present a USB A connector
(color coded black, not blue or white).

A mating cable eventually terminates in an ORANGE USB A-ish
(see inset in photo) connector with a deformed shell (no doubt
to keep folks from plugging it where it doesn\'t belong!)
But it\'s Universal!

And it can charge my Leaf in a week!!!

using 16V -> 48V -> 384V bi-directional transparent bridge

You can charge your car from a USB wart? Or a laptop?

My phone has a USBC connector. It never ocurred to me to see if it
works as a power supply.

It probably does, mine does at least. A neighbour asked for help
to transfer files from an SD card (camera, the largest/oldes size)
to her phone so I discovered these USB hubs, later got one for myself
(yet to be really used). The hub does get power and works, with USB
flash drives, SD cards... They have made many things work,
eventually .

 

[Don Y]

On 6/22/2023 8:47 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:

It probably does, mine does at least. A neighbour asked for help
to transfer files from an SD card (camera, the largest/oldes size)
to her phone so I discovered these USB hubs, later got one for myself
(yet to be really used). The hub does get power and works, with USB
flash drives, SD cards... They have made many things work,
eventually .

The problem -- without an external power injection -- is that
everything you hang off the hub has to share the single power
source.

Most (?) keyboards, monitors, etc. have small hubs built in
as conveniences for the user. But, you quickly learn that they
aren\'t \"equivalent\" to the USB port ON your PC (which can supply
the 500mA or 2A or...)

In some implementations, attempting to draw too much power
(by plugging in something that expects a hearty power source)
can \"crash\" the hosting device/hub.

USB has been a disappointment. Still lots of cables on the desktop.
Maybe even more as everyone sees a USB port as a handy power source
for their \"gizmo\" (fan, reading light, noise canceling microphone,
2.5\" external disk, amplified speakers, etc.)

BT avoids the cable problem - but reintroduces it in the form
of POWER cords!

 

[Martin Brown]

On 22/06/2023 17:16, Don Y wrote:

On 6/22/2023 8:47 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
It probably does, mine does at least. A neighbour asked for help
to transfer files from an SD card (camera, the largest/oldes size)
to her phone so I discovered these USB hubs, later got one for myself
(yet to be really used). The hub does get power and works, with USB
flash drives, SD cards... They have made many things work,
eventually .

The problem -- without an external power injection -- is that
everything you hang off the hub has to share the single power
source.

Most (?) keyboards, monitors, etc. have small hubs built in
as conveniences for the user.  But, you quickly learn that they
aren\'t \"equivalent\" to the USB port ON your PC (which can supply
the 500mA or 2A or...)

Some monitors can but cheaper ones will be minimalist.

One annoyance is that some digital cameras will flatten their own
battery when connected to computer with a USB cable!

In some implementations, attempting to draw too much power
(by plugging in something that expects a hearty power source)
can \"crash\" the hosting device/hub.

Only if it is impolite and tries to take the higher current without
asking for permission to be granted first. I discovered the hard way
that my cars USB port could not provide enough power to get an iPhone
out of a stone dead 0% charge state when we had our long mains powercut.

We now have a couple of solar powered power banks kept topped up.

USB has been a disappointment.  Still lots of cables on the desktop.
Maybe even more as everyone sees a USB port as a handy power source
for their \"gizmo\" (fan, reading light, noise canceling microphone,
2.5\" external disk, amplified speakers, etc.)

In the early days it was the Unusable or Unstable Serial Bus depending
on how generous you were prepared to be about its tendency to lock up.

BT avoids the cable problem - but reintroduces it in the form
of POWER cords!

Plenty of low power BT devices on battery power.

--
Martin Brown

 

[Dimiter_Popoff]

On 6/22/2023 19:16, Don Y wrote:

On 6/22/2023 8:47 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
It probably does, mine does at least. A neighbour asked for help
to transfer files from an SD card (camera, the largest/oldes size)
to her phone so I discovered these USB hubs, later got one for myself
(yet to be really used). The hub does get power and works, with USB
flash drives, SD cards... They have made many things work,
eventually .

The problem -- without an external power injection -- is that
everything you hang off the hub has to share the single power
source.

Most (?) keyboards, monitors, etc. have small hubs built in
as conveniences for the user.  But, you quickly learn that they
aren\'t \"equivalent\" to the USB port ON your PC (which can supply
the 500mA or 2A or...)

In some implementations, attempting to draw too much power
(by plugging in something that expects a hearty power source)
can \"crash\" the hosting device/hub.

USB has been a disappointment.  Still lots of cables on the desktop.
Maybe even more as everyone sees a USB port as a handy power source
for their \"gizmo\" (fan, reading light, noise canceling microphone,
2.5\" external disk, amplified speakers, etc.)

BT avoids the cable problem - but reintroduces it in the form
of POWER cords!

I would have been way happier had they done Ethernet with a defined
power part of the connector instead of USB 30 years ago. But I can
see why they went this route, Ethernet takes more silicon and software
than the initial USB versions.
It may be not too late for that, it will take just a better connector
with power pins. Or may be it is too late for that, I just don\'t know
how an optical cable + power would compare to this, is an Ethernet PHY
so much simpler than an optical one? Phil Hobbs might know and be
willing to tell us .
Getting rid of USB will be not much easier than getting rid of the
light bulb socket standards though...

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 22 Jun 2023 19:54:00 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
wrote:

On 6/22/2023 19:16, Don Y wrote:
On 6/22/2023 8:47 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
It probably does, mine does at least. A neighbour asked for help
to transfer files from an SD card (camera, the largest/oldes size)
to her phone so I discovered these USB hubs, later got one for myself
(yet to be really used). The hub does get power and works, with USB
flash drives, SD cards... They have made many things work,
eventually .

The problem -- without an external power injection -- is that
everything you hang off the hub has to share the single power
source.

Most (?) keyboards, monitors, etc. have small hubs built in
as conveniences for the user.  But, you quickly learn that they
aren\'t \"equivalent\" to the USB port ON your PC (which can supply
the 500mA or 2A or...)

In some implementations, attempting to draw too much power
(by plugging in something that expects a hearty power source)
can \"crash\" the hosting device/hub.

USB has been a disappointment.  Still lots of cables on the desktop.
Maybe even more as everyone sees a USB port as a handy power source
for their \"gizmo\" (fan, reading light, noise canceling microphone,
2.5\" external disk, amplified speakers, etc.)

BT avoids the cable problem - but reintroduces it in the form
of POWER cords!


I would have been way happier had they done Ethernet with a defined
power part of the connector instead of USB 30 years ago. But I can
see why they went this route, Ethernet takes more silicon and software
than the initial USB versions.
It may be not too late for that, it will take just a better connector
with power pins. Or may be it is too late for that, I just don\'t know
how an optical cable + power would compare to this, is an Ethernet PHY
so much simpler than an optical one? Phil Hobbs might know and be
willing to tell us .
Getting rid of USB will be not much easier than getting rid of the
light bulb socket standards though...

PoE, power over ethernet, is real. I\'m designing a series of small
boxes that will get power from either a 24 volt wart or PoE.

There are lots of cheap power pickoff things that do the negotiation
and isolation for powering a gadget from PoE, and there are lots of
PoE switches and power injectors for the source end.

My boxes can only dissipate a few watts, so the lowest baseline PoE
supply will be enough. That puts 48 volts DC on the regular data pair.

 

[Dimiter_Popoff]

On 6/22/2023 20:09, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jun 2023 19:54:00 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com
wrote:

On 6/22/2023 19:16, Don Y wrote:
On 6/22/2023 8:47 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
It probably does, mine does at least. A neighbour asked for help
to transfer files from an SD card (camera, the largest/oldes size)
to her phone so I discovered these USB hubs, later got one for myself
(yet to be really used). The hub does get power and works, with USB
flash drives, SD cards... They have made many things work,
eventually .

The problem -- without an external power injection -- is that
everything you hang off the hub has to share the single power
source.

Most (?) keyboards, monitors, etc. have small hubs built in
as conveniences for the user.  But, you quickly learn that they
aren\'t \"equivalent\" to the USB port ON your PC (which can supply
the 500mA or 2A or...)

In some implementations, attempting to draw too much power
(by plugging in something that expects a hearty power source)
can \"crash\" the hosting device/hub.

USB has been a disappointment.  Still lots of cables on the desktop.
Maybe even more as everyone sees a USB port as a handy power source
for their \"gizmo\" (fan, reading light, noise canceling microphone,
2.5\" external disk, amplified speakers, etc.)

BT avoids the cable problem - but reintroduces it in the form
of POWER cords!


I would have been way happier had they done Ethernet with a defined
power part of the connector instead of USB 30 years ago. But I can
see why they went this route, Ethernet takes more silicon and software
than the initial USB versions.
It may be not too late for that, it will take just a better connector
with power pins. Or may be it is too late for that, I just don\'t know
how an optical cable + power would compare to this, is an Ethernet PHY
so much simpler than an optical one? Phil Hobbs might know and be
willing to tell us .
Getting rid of USB will be not much easier than getting rid of the
light bulb socket standards though...

PoE, power over ethernet, is real. I\'m designing a series of small
boxes that will get power from either a 24 volt wart or PoE.

There are lots of cheap power pickoff things that do the negotiation
and isolation for powering a gadget from PoE, and there are lots of
PoE switches and power injectors for the source end.

My boxes can only dissipate a few watts, so the lowest baseline PoE
supply will be enough. That puts 48 volts DC on the regular data pair.

I know, in fact I had designed a PoE input on the first version of
out netMCA some 10+ years ago but it never saw any demand so I dropped
it on later board revisions (where ATA became SATA etc.).
I am eyeing that again though, I may still use it for something in a
way similar to the way you do.
Still wondering if an optical link + power would be a viable thing
to do nowadays (how it would compare to PoE).

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 22 Jun 2023 20:19:03 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
wrote:

On 6/22/2023 20:09, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 22 Jun 2023 19:54:00 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com
wrote:

On 6/22/2023 19:16, Don Y wrote:
On 6/22/2023 8:47 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
It probably does, mine does at least. A neighbour asked for help
to transfer files from an SD card (camera, the largest/oldes size)
to her phone so I discovered these USB hubs, later got one for myself
(yet to be really used). The hub does get power and works, with USB
flash drives, SD cards... They have made many things work,
eventually .

The problem -- without an external power injection -- is that
everything you hang off the hub has to share the single power
source.

Most (?) keyboards, monitors, etc. have small hubs built in
as conveniences for the user.  But, you quickly learn that they
aren\'t \"equivalent\" to the USB port ON your PC (which can supply
the 500mA or 2A or...)

In some implementations, attempting to draw too much power
(by plugging in something that expects a hearty power source)
can \"crash\" the hosting device/hub.

USB has been a disappointment.  Still lots of cables on the desktop.
Maybe even more as everyone sees a USB port as a handy power source
for their \"gizmo\" (fan, reading light, noise canceling microphone,
2.5\" external disk, amplified speakers, etc.)

BT avoids the cable problem - but reintroduces it in the form
of POWER cords!


I would have been way happier had they done Ethernet with a defined
power part of the connector instead of USB 30 years ago. But I can
see why they went this route, Ethernet takes more silicon and software
than the initial USB versions.
It may be not too late for that, it will take just a better connector
with power pins. Or may be it is too late for that, I just don\'t know
how an optical cable + power would compare to this, is an Ethernet PHY
so much simpler than an optical one? Phil Hobbs might know and be
willing to tell us .
Getting rid of USB will be not much easier than getting rid of the
light bulb socket standards though...

PoE, power over ethernet, is real. I\'m designing a series of small
boxes that will get power from either a 24 volt wart or PoE.

There are lots of cheap power pickoff things that do the negotiation
and isolation for powering a gadget from PoE, and there are lots of
PoE switches and power injectors for the source end.

My boxes can only dissipate a few watts, so the lowest baseline PoE
supply will be enough. That puts 48 volts DC on the regular data pair.


I know, in fact I had designed a PoE input on the first version of
out netMCA some 10+ years ago but it never saw any demand so I dropped
it on later board revisions (where ATA became SATA etc.).
I am eyeing that again though, I may still use it for something in a
way similar to the way you do.
Still wondering if an optical link + power would be a viable thing
to do nowadays (how it would compare to PoE).

Optical has benefits, especially in aerospace test, but then a box
needs a separate power supply.

The way to do optical data links these days is with SFP modules.

 

[Dimiter_Popoff]

On 6/22/2023 20:25, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jun 2023 20:19:03 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com
wrote:

On 6/22/2023 20:09, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 22 Jun 2023 19:54:00 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com
wrote:

On 6/22/2023 19:16, Don Y wrote:
On 6/22/2023 8:47 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
It probably does, mine does at least. A neighbour asked for help
to transfer files from an SD card (camera, the largest/oldes size)
to her phone so I discovered these USB hubs, later got one for myself
(yet to be really used). The hub does get power and works, with USB
flash drives, SD cards... They have made many things work,
eventually .

The problem -- without an external power injection -- is that
everything you hang off the hub has to share the single power
source.

Most (?) keyboards, monitors, etc. have small hubs built in
as conveniences for the user.  But, you quickly learn that they
aren\'t \"equivalent\" to the USB port ON your PC (which can supply
the 500mA or 2A or...)

In some implementations, attempting to draw too much power
(by plugging in something that expects a hearty power source)
can \"crash\" the hosting device/hub.

USB has been a disappointment.  Still lots of cables on the desktop.
Maybe even more as everyone sees a USB port as a handy power source
for their \"gizmo\" (fan, reading light, noise canceling microphone,
2.5\" external disk, amplified speakers, etc.)

BT avoids the cable problem - but reintroduces it in the form
of POWER cords!


I would have been way happier had they done Ethernet with a defined
power part of the connector instead of USB 30 years ago. But I can
see why they went this route, Ethernet takes more silicon and software
than the initial USB versions.
It may be not too late for that, it will take just a better connector
with power pins. Or may be it is too late for that, I just don\'t know
how an optical cable + power would compare to this, is an Ethernet PHY
so much simpler than an optical one? Phil Hobbs might know and be
willing to tell us .
Getting rid of USB will be not much easier than getting rid of the
light bulb socket standards though...

PoE, power over ethernet, is real. I\'m designing a series of small
boxes that will get power from either a 24 volt wart or PoE.

There are lots of cheap power pickoff things that do the negotiation
and isolation for powering a gadget from PoE, and there are lots of
PoE switches and power injectors for the source end.

My boxes can only dissipate a few watts, so the lowest baseline PoE
supply will be enough. That puts 48 volts DC on the regular data pair.


I know, in fact I had designed a PoE input on the first version of
out netMCA some 10+ years ago but it never saw any demand so I dropped
it on later board revisions (where ATA became SATA etc.).
I am eyeing that again though, I may still use it for something in a
way similar to the way you do.
Still wondering if an optical link + power would be a viable thing
to do nowadays (how it would compare to PoE).

Optical has benefits, especially in aerospace test, but then a box
needs a separate power supply.

The way to do optical data links these days is with SFP modules.

Well an SFP module is not simpler than at Ethernet PHY, I wonder
if something like a chip doing MII <-> optical would make sense.
Would it be more cimplex than MII <-> Ethernet? Say at 1 Gbps.
Standardizing a connector around that which includes power as
an option would be trivial I guess.

 

[Don Y]

On 6/22/2023 9:54 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:

BT avoids the cable problem - but reintroduces it in the form
of POWER cords!

I would have been way happier had they done Ethernet with a defined
power part of the connector instead of USB 30 years ago. But I can
see why they went this route, Ethernet takes more silicon and software
than the initial USB versions.

PoE (et al.) is a practical solution -- that will get cheaper
over time. Partly because folks realize that getting power *to*
devices on the end of the wire is as important as getting DATA
there.

You can buy PoE-powered hubs, APs, etc.

I opted for *wired* comms, in my system, as wireless (like my BT comment,
above) only solves the data problem. Having 200+ wall warts strewn
around the house would have been ridiculously impractical! And, in the
US, costly (to add mains wiring to power them -- I\'m sure we don\'t have
200 receptacles, here!)

It may be not too late for that, it will take just a better connector
with power pins. Or may be it is too late for that, I just don\'t know
how an optical cable + power would compare to this, is an Ethernet PHY
so much simpler than an optical one? Phil Hobbs might know and be
willing to tell us .

Ethernet (over copper) is AC-coupled so you can run power \"under\" the
signal. You already need the magnetics on both ends so it\'s just a matter
of injecting the power (midspan or endpoint) and retrieving it at the end
node. ~350mA @ 48VDC is a reasonably significant load that can be
powered (PoE+ goes even higher).

E.g., VoIP phones are typically at the 7W power level and NOT having to run
power separately to each handset is a huge win.

Getting rid of USB will be not much easier than getting rid of the
light bulb socket standards though...

BTLE will eliminate the cords -- and that will be a big selling point for
users (assuming wireless charging becomes ubiquitous).

 

[Don Y]

On 6/22/2023 9:24 AM, Martin Brown wrote:

On 22/06/2023 17:16, Don Y wrote:
On 6/22/2023 8:47 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
It probably does, mine does at least. A neighbour asked for help
to transfer files from an SD card (camera, the largest/oldes size)
to her phone so I discovered these USB hubs, later got one for myself
(yet to be really used). The hub does get power and works, with USB
flash drives, SD cards... They have made many things work,
eventually .

The problem -- without an external power injection -- is that
everything you hang off the hub has to share the single power
source.

Most (?) keyboards, monitors, etc. have small hubs built in
as conveniences for the user.  But, you quickly learn that they
aren\'t \"equivalent\" to the USB port ON your PC (which can supply
the 500mA or 2A or...)

Some monitors can but cheaper ones will be minimalist.

Yes, but lots of things now want to offer a USB port \"for
expansion\". Each of my consumer NASs have two or more.
Keyboards have two. Monitors two -- and often a couple
of memory card readers on the same \"drop\". I have external
disk drives with a pair of USB3\'s out front (huh???)

One annoyance is that some digital cameras will flatten their own battery when
connected to computer with a USB cable!

Yes. And why can\'t it charge *and* transfer files? Why
should I have to pick how the connection is used?

In some implementations, attempting to draw too much power
(by plugging in something that expects a hearty power source)
can \"crash\" the hosting device/hub.

Only if it is impolite and tries to take the higher current without asking for
permission to be granted first. I discovered the hard way that my cars USB port
could not provide enough power to get an iPhone out of a stone dead 0% charge
state when we had our long mains powercut.

We now have a couple of solar powered power banks kept topped up.

I have a small UPS with 12V & USB charger outputs. But, also can power
stuff from backed up mains.

USB has been a disappointment.  Still lots of cables on the desktop.
Maybe even more as everyone sees a USB port as a handy power source
for their \"gizmo\" (fan, reading light, noise canceling microphone,
2.5\" external disk, amplified speakers, etc.)

In the early days it was the Unusable or Unstable Serial Bus depending on how
generous you were prepared to be about its tendency to lock up.

Ditto plug and Pray...

BT avoids the cable problem - but reintroduces it in the form
of POWER cords!

Plenty of low power BT devices on battery power.

Yeah -- if you don\'t mind changing batteries or recharging a multitude of
devices!

Consider, at the very least, you\'d have a mouse and keyboard at each PC.
And, some sort of audio in/out. Possibly an external camera. Plus your
network comms.

Imagine a commercial/industrial deployment...

Anything wireless[1] converts the nuisance of wires into the nuisance
of charging.

[1] I have a couple of wireless \"solar\" keyboards that I use for machines
that are located in \"inconvenient\" locations. The wireless ability lets
me place the keyboard someplace comfortable. But, batteries in the keyboard
would always be a problem (esp if rechargeable cells) as the keyboard
would see very infrequent use (most of my headless machines run forever
without an \"operator\").

The solar keyboard is always ready (or, will soon be if exposed to
bright light). Unfortunately, it\'s got chiclet keys...

 

[ke...@kjwdesigns.com]

On Thursday, 22 June 2023 at 06:56:43 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
....

USBC is OK, so far. I think the EU wants to make it a law.

....

I\'ve had a couple of simple USBC clients that didn\'t implement their part correctly and would work with
USB2 to USBC adapters but not directly from a USBC host.

In both of those cases the symptoms were that the 5V was not provided and so the clients did not power up.

USBC requires that there be 5.1k resistors to ground from the CC1 and CC2 pins to provide 5V. If they aren\'t, a correctly designed USB Power Delivery device will not provide power. The USB2 to USBC adapters did not implement the power delivery protocol so they provided 5V without the resistors.

kw

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

torsdag den 22. juni 2023 kl. 22.26.40 UTC+2 skrev ke...@kjwdesigns.com:

On Thursday, 22 June 2023 at 06:56:43 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
...

USBC is OK, so far. I think the EU wants to make it a law.

...

I\'ve had a couple of simple USBC clients that didn\'t implement their part correctly and would work with
USB2 to USBC adapters but not directly from a USBC host.

In both of those cases the symptoms were that the 5V was not provided and so the clients did not power up.

USBC requires that there be 5.1k resistors to ground from the CC1 and CC2 pins to provide 5V. If they aren\'t, a correctly designed USB Power Delivery device will not provide power. The USB2 to USBC adapters did not implement the power delivery protocol so they provided 5V without the resistors.

and it must be two separate resistors

 

[Ricky]

On Thursday, June 22, 2023 at 12:54:08 PM UTC-4, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:

On 6/22/2023 19:16, Don Y wrote:
On 6/22/2023 8:47 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
It probably does, mine does at least. A neighbour asked for help
to transfer files from an SD card (camera, the largest/oldes size)
to her phone so I discovered these USB hubs, later got one for myself
(yet to be really used). The hub does get power and works, with USB
flash drives, SD cards... They have made many things work,
eventually .

The problem -- without an external power injection -- is that
everything you hang off the hub has to share the single power
source.

Most (?) keyboards, monitors, etc. have small hubs built in
as conveniences for the user. But, you quickly learn that they
aren\'t \"equivalent\" to the USB port ON your PC (which can supply
the 500mA or 2A or...)

In some implementations, attempting to draw too much power
(by plugging in something that expects a hearty power source)
can \"crash\" the hosting device/hub.

USB has been a disappointment. Still lots of cables on the desktop.
Maybe even more as everyone sees a USB port as a handy power source
for their \"gizmo\" (fan, reading light, noise canceling microphone,
2.5\" external disk, amplified speakers, etc.)

BT avoids the cable problem - but reintroduces it in the form
of POWER cords!

I would have been way happier had they done Ethernet with a defined
power part of the connector instead of USB 30 years ago. But I can
see why they went this route, Ethernet takes more silicon and software
than the initial USB versions.
It may be not too late for that, it will take just a better connector
with power pins. Or may be it is too late for that, I just don\'t know
how an optical cable + power would compare to this, is an Ethernet PHY
so much simpler than an optical one? Phil Hobbs might know and be
willing to tell us .
Getting rid of USB will be not much easier than getting rid of the
light bulb socket standards though...

Ethernet was much more complex to set up. I recall spending significant time trying to get two PCs to share files over Ethernet under Win2K. Subsequent versions of Windows made the process less complex, but less reliable. If either machine was rebooted, it could refuse to work for no discernible reason. I eventually gave up on Ethernet. Flash drives are large enough to hold my entire hard drive these days. Seems like sneaker net has finally come out on top.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2023-06-22, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:

USB has been a disappointment.  Still lots of cables on the desktop.
Maybe even more as everyone sees a USB port as a handy power source
for their \"gizmo\" (fan, reading light, noise canceling microphone,
2.5\" external disk, amplified speakers, etc.)

BT avoids the cable problem - but reintroduces it in the form
of POWER cords!


I would have been way happier had they done Ethernet with a defined
power part of the connector instead of USB 30 years ago. But I can
see why they went this route, Ethernet takes more silicon and software
than the initial USB versions.

Ethernet plus power: we had that 40 years ago as \"AUI\"
the plug is kind of clunky

And 30 years ago \"firewire\" was ethernet like.

--
Jasen.
🇺🇦 Слава Україні