Ultrasonic serial communication transmitter.

Hello,

I'm trying to make a 24kHz ultrasonic transmitter capable of sending
AM serial data to a receiver over a min 30ft range. I have no scope or
frequency counter (looking for a counter locally) and have managed to
get it just-going on occasion over a couple of feet by using high
tolerance components and using an ultrasonic tone controlled switch
kitset as a tuning referance. I'd foolishly thought when I bought the
kit "What are the chances of there being 24kHz lurking about?" Pretty
good actually. Drop a tool on the garage floor, tap the workbench and
away she'd go. Lucky I didn't connect it to the main garage door!

Transmitter.
At present I have a 16F84A PIC sending serial out at T1200 (True
logic) to the reset pin of a 555 timer set for 24kHz. Its output goes
to a 4069 inverter that drives a transducer. The inverter is wired in
parallel, 180 degrees shifted for maximum output. My PIC programmer is
old and doesn't go beyond the 16F84A which is why I'm trying to do it
this way.

TX PIC----555 24kHz----INVERTER----TRANSDUCER

If I connect the TX PIC serial output pin straight to the RX PIC
serial input pin then the receiving LED lights up during the program
cycle just fine. However if I connect the 555 output pin to the RX PIC
then it lights up only occasionally. A sync problem I'm guessing
caused by the 555 duty cycle? It was set to 55% and I changed it to
50% which made things worse. I'm unsure what to do here as I read that
the duty cycle for a transducer should be less than 60% for it to
operate properly and also that connecting a transducer straight to a
555 isn't a good idea. The 555 isn't stable at the resonant frequency
as a reverse voltage causes the frequency to jump about.

I've just seen a circuit where a modulated input goes to the Control
Voltage pin of a 555 (astable mode), the output having a pullup
resistor. Another circuit provides control over the duty cycle without

changing the output pulse frequency.
I can combine them and try it but is it the best way to go about this?
Is there a better way considering the limitations of my PIC?

Perhaps a tone controller or are they not fast enough?
PIC----567----INVERTER----TRANSDUCER

Maybe going up to 40kHz with a crystal locked TX inverter as in the
link below but how does one connect it to the PIC for serial AM? I
have a 40Khz crystal I pulled from some old junk which I could use and
the crystal eliminates tuning. I can't find any 24kHz crystals
locally.
http://info.hobbyengineering.com/specs/DIY-k49.pdf.
PIC----CRYSTAL LOCKED INVERTER----TRANSDUCER

Any advice on how to go about making this work reliably welcome.

Cheers,

Andrew.

 

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:21:14 -0800, Robert Monsen
<rcsurname@comcast.net> wrote:

Anthony Fremont wrote:
Rubicon wrote:

Hello,

I'm trying to make a 24kHz ultrasonic transmitter capable of sending
AM serial data to a receiver over a min 30ft range. I have no scope or
frequency counter (looking for a counter locally) and have managed to


Personally, I'd recommend getting a scope first. I use my ~20 year old
scope about 100 times as much as I use my frequency counter.


get it just-going on occasion over a couple of feet by using high
tolerance components and using an ultrasonic tone controlled switch
kitset as a tuning referance. I'd foolishly thought when I bought the
kit "What are the chances of there being 24kHz lurking about?" Pretty
good actually. Drop a tool on the garage floor, tap the workbench and
away she'd go. Lucky I didn't connect it to the main garage door!

Transmitter.
At present I have a 16F84A PIC sending serial out at T1200 (True
logic) to the reset pin of a 555 timer set for 24kHz. Its output goes
to a 4069 inverter that drives a transducer. The inverter is wired in
parallel, 180 degrees shifted for maximum output. My PIC programmer is
old and doesn't go beyond the 16F84A which is why I'm trying to do it
this way.

TX PIC----555 24kHz----INVERTER----TRANSDUCER


Why not just drive the transducer directly from the PIC? If you put the
transducer accross two output pins, you can develop 10V of drive to the
transducer by alternately driving one high and the other low. It's also
going to be much more accurate at frequency control than the 555.


If I connect the TX PIC serial output pin straight to the RX PIC
serial input pin then the receiving LED lights up during the program
cycle just fine. However if I connect the 555 output pin to the RX PIC
then it lights up only occasionally. A sync problem I'm guessing
caused by the 555 duty cycle? It was set to 55% and I changed it to
50% which made things worse. I'm unsure what to do here as I read that
the duty cycle for a transducer should be less than 60% for it to
operate properly and also that connecting a transducer straight to a
555 isn't a good idea. The 555 isn't stable at the resonant frequency
as a reverse voltage causes the frequency to jump about.


If a 1 bit is represented by ~10 cycles of sound and a 0 bit by silence
(or vice versa) you probably have issues with reflected signals
confusing the receiver. At 1200 baud a bit time is about 1mS. Your
sound signals only travel 1 foot during this time, and many reflections
are delayed by several mS. This could result in bits showing up
literally out of sequence to the receiver. You need to slow your baud
rate way down.

You also haven't mentioned any amplification stages on the receiver.
What are you using to condition the received signal before feeding it to
the PIC?


I've just seen a circuit where a modulated input goes to the Control
Voltage pin of a 555 (astable mode), the output having a pullup
resistor. Another circuit provides control over the duty cycle without

changing the output pulse frequency.
I can combine them and try it but is it the best way to go about this?
Is there a better way considering the limitations of my PIC?


Yes, I think there is a better and easier way.


Perhaps a tone controller or are they not fast enough?
PIC----567----INVERTER----TRANSDUCER


Your making it harder than it needs to be.


Maybe going up to 40kHz with a crystal locked TX inverter as in the
link below but how does one connect it to the PIC for serial AM? I
have a 40Khz crystal I pulled from some old junk which I could use and
the crystal eliminates tuning. I can't find any 24kHz crystals
locally.
http://info.hobbyengineering.com/specs/DIY-k49.pdf.
PIC----CRYSTAL LOCKED INVERTER----TRANSDUCER


Now you are aproaching Rube Goldberg status. ;-)


Any advice on how to go about making this work reliably welcome.


The more complicated you make it, the harder it will be to make it work
reliably. Especially without a scope. Do you have to use ultrasonics?
How about IR, it should give you as much range with less noise issues
and virtually no reflection issues. The receiving end is allot easier
as well since you can use a cheap off the shelf receiver to remove the
38Khz carrier and give you plain serial data.

You can use a TMR interrupt to generate the 38Khz carrier on the sending
side, or you could just bit bang it out using inline delay routines. To
make things simple you could have a TMR interrupt toggle an output pin
at 38Khz continuously. You then connect this pin to one input of an AND
gate. You connect another output pin to the remaining input of the AND
gate and use it to toggle the carrier on and off to send data.


One easy way to do this is to use a flag, set or cleared in the main
loop, that gets xor'd into the port during the interrupt. If the flag is
1, the value is changed (A xor 1 = ~A), and the port wiggles. If the
flag is 0, the value isn't changed (A xor 0 = A). This saves a pin and
an "and" gate, without substantially changing the code you propose.

This is beyond me at the moment as I've only recently started
programming PICs. I keep everything for future reference though.

However, the 555 is perfectly acceptable. It can be made fairly
accurate, within a few percent, using a pot and a frequency counter. If
the pic is doing other things, using an offchip oscillator may be a good
solution.

Does the duty cycle of the 555 matter when it's used to modulate a
signal? If so what should it be for 300baud/1200 baud?

Given that the transducer will ring with the incoming signal at whatever
it's natural frequency is, frequency stability may not matter all that
much. It will filter anthing outside it's bandwidth, also, so using a
tone detector is probably a waste.

Could the tone detector be used on the RX after a LM833 1000Xgain or
more amplifier to filter out the noise of the amplifier, its
associated components and other circuitry?

I can help you with the code to get timer interrupts working if you
like.


Actually, RF is probably a much better solution. You can get a
transmitter/receiver pair that will do FSK at 300' for under $20 in
single quantity from digikey.

I'd rather stick with ultrasonics as I already have so much of the
required components and I also find it interesting.

http://tinyurl.com/3ry6w
http://tinyurl.com/6u59j

--
Regards,
Robert Monsen

Thankyou for the information and advice.

Regards,

Andrew.

"Your Highness, I have no need of this hypothesis."
- Pierre Laplace (1749-1827), to Napoleon,
on why his works on celestial mechanics make no mention of God.

 

[Andrew Holme]

Rubicon wrote:

Hello,

I'm trying to make a 24kHz ultrasonic transmitter capable of sending
AM serial data to a receiver over a min 30ft range. I have no scope or
frequency counter (looking for a counter locally) and have managed to
get it just-going on occasion over a couple of feet by using high
tolerance components and using an ultrasonic tone controlled switch
kitset as a tuning referance. I'd foolishly thought when I bought the
kit "What are the chances of there being 24kHz lurking about?" Pretty
good actually. Drop a tool on the garage floor, tap the workbench and
away she'd go. Lucky I didn't connect it to the main garage door!

Ultrasonic transducers are usually resonant at 40 KHz and their efficiency
and sensitivity are greatly reduced at other frequencies.

Transmitter.
At present I have a 16F84A PIC sending serial out at T1200 (True
logic) to the reset pin of a 555 timer set for 24kHz. Its output goes
to a 4069 inverter that drives a transducer. The inverter is wired in
parallel, 180 degrees shifted for maximum output. My PIC programmer is
old and doesn't go beyond the 16F84A which is why I'm trying to do it
this way.

TX PIC----555 24kHz----INVERTER----TRANSDUCER

If I connect the TX PIC serial output pin straight to the RX PIC
serial input pin then the receiving LED lights up during the program
cycle just fine. However if I connect the 555 output pin to the RX PIC
then it lights up only occasionally. A sync problem I'm guessing
caused by the 555 duty cycle? It was set to 55% and I changed it to
50% which made things worse. I'm unsure what to do here as I read that
the duty cycle for a transducer should be less than 60% for it to
operate properly and also that connecting a transducer straight to a
555 isn't a good idea. The 555 isn't stable at the resonant frequency
as a reverse voltage causes the frequency to jump about.

I've just seen a circuit where a modulated input goes to the Control
Voltage pin of a 555 (astable mode), the output having a pullup
resistor. Another circuit provides control over the duty cycle without

changing the output pulse frequency.
I can combine them and try it but is it the best way to go about this?
Is there a better way considering the limitations of my PIC?

Trying to modulating the duty cycle is a bad idea - this will not be
transmitted faithfully over a narrow band link because the "information"
will be in harmonics. Modulating the frequency (FSK = Frequency Shift
Keying) sounds like a better idea. Keep the frequency deviation fairly
small though.

Perhaps a tone controller or are they not fast enough?
PIC----567----INVERTER----TRANSDUCER

The NE567, if that's what you're referring to, is a tone decoder. That
would be a good choice for demodulating FSK at the receiving end. The NE567
can detect a signal buried in noise, but you still might need a little
pre-amplification.

An oscilloscope is essential to develop something like this.

Maybe going up to 40kHz with a crystal locked TX inverter as in the
link below but how does one connect it to the PIC for serial AM? I
have a 40Khz crystal I pulled from some old junk which I could use and
the crystal eliminates tuning. I can't find any 24kHz crystals
locally.
http://info.hobbyengineering.com/specs/DIY-k49.pdf.
PIC----CRYSTAL LOCKED INVERTER----TRANSDUCER

You would need a varicap diode to generate FSK from a crystal oscillator.

You can generate AM by making a crystal oscillator from logic gates and then
using a spare NAND or NOR to gate the carrier on and off with the
transmitted data.

 

[Robert Monsen]

Anthony Fremont wrote:

Rubicon wrote:

Hello,

I'm trying to make a 24kHz ultrasonic transmitter capable of sending
AM serial data to a receiver over a min 30ft range. I have no scope or
frequency counter (looking for a counter locally) and have managed to


Personally, I'd recommend getting a scope first. I use my ~20 year old
scope about 100 times as much as I use my frequency counter.


get it just-going on occasion over a couple of feet by using high
tolerance components and using an ultrasonic tone controlled switch
kitset as a tuning referance. I'd foolishly thought when I bought the
kit "What are the chances of there being 24kHz lurking about?" Pretty
good actually. Drop a tool on the garage floor, tap the workbench and
away she'd go. Lucky I didn't connect it to the main garage door!

Transmitter.
At present I have a 16F84A PIC sending serial out at T1200 (True
logic) to the reset pin of a 555 timer set for 24kHz. Its output goes
to a 4069 inverter that drives a transducer. The inverter is wired in
parallel, 180 degrees shifted for maximum output. My PIC programmer is
old and doesn't go beyond the 16F84A which is why I'm trying to do it
this way.

TX PIC----555 24kHz----INVERTER----TRANSDUCER


Why not just drive the transducer directly from the PIC? If you put the
transducer accross two output pins, you can develop 10V of drive to the
transducer by alternately driving one high and the other low. It's also
going to be much more accurate at frequency control than the 555.


If I connect the TX PIC serial output pin straight to the RX PIC
serial input pin then the receiving LED lights up during the program
cycle just fine. However if I connect the 555 output pin to the RX PIC
then it lights up only occasionally. A sync problem I'm guessing
caused by the 555 duty cycle? It was set to 55% and I changed it to
50% which made things worse. I'm unsure what to do here as I read that
the duty cycle for a transducer should be less than 60% for it to
operate properly and also that connecting a transducer straight to a
555 isn't a good idea. The 555 isn't stable at the resonant frequency
as a reverse voltage causes the frequency to jump about.


If a 1 bit is represented by ~10 cycles of sound and a 0 bit by silence
(or vice versa) you probably have issues with reflected signals
confusing the receiver. At 1200 baud a bit time is about 1mS. Your
sound signals only travel 1 foot during this time, and many reflections
are delayed by several mS. This could result in bits showing up
literally out of sequence to the receiver. You need to slow your baud
rate way down.

You also haven't mentioned any amplification stages on the receiver.
What are you using to condition the received signal before feeding it to
the PIC?


I've just seen a circuit where a modulated input goes to the Control
Voltage pin of a 555 (astable mode), the output having a pullup
resistor. Another circuit provides control over the duty cycle without

changing the output pulse frequency.
I can combine them and try it but is it the best way to go about this?
Is there a better way considering the limitations of my PIC?


Yes, I think there is a better and easier way.


Perhaps a tone controller or are they not fast enough?
PIC----567----INVERTER----TRANSDUCER


Your making it harder than it needs to be.


Maybe going up to 40kHz with a crystal locked TX inverter as in the
link below but how does one connect it to the PIC for serial AM? I
have a 40Khz crystal I pulled from some old junk which I could use and
the crystal eliminates tuning. I can't find any 24kHz crystals
locally.
http://info.hobbyengineering.com/specs/DIY-k49.pdf.
PIC----CRYSTAL LOCKED INVERTER----TRANSDUCER


Now you are aproaching Rube Goldberg status. ;-)


Any advice on how to go about making this work reliably welcome.


The more complicated you make it, the harder it will be to make it work
reliably. Especially without a scope. Do you have to use ultrasonics?
How about IR, it should give you as much range with less noise issues
and virtually no reflection issues. The receiving end is allot easier
as well since you can use a cheap off the shelf receiver to remove the
38Khz carrier and give you plain serial data.

You can use a TMR interrupt to generate the 38Khz carrier on the sending
side, or you could just bit bang it out using inline delay routines. To
make things simple you could have a TMR interrupt toggle an output pin
at 38Khz continuously. You then connect this pin to one input of an AND
gate. You connect another output pin to the remaining input of the AND
gate and use it to toggle the carrier on and off to send data.

One easy way to do this is to use a flag, set or cleared in the main
loop, that gets xor'd into the port during the interrupt. If the flag is
1, the value is changed (A xor 1 = ~A), and the port wiggles. If the
flag is 0, the value isn't changed (A xor 0 = A). This saves a pin and
an "and" gate, without substantially changing the code you propose.

However, the 555 is perfectly acceptable. It can be made fairly
accurate, within a few percent, using a pot and a frequency counter. If
the pic is doing other things, using an offchip oscillator may be a good
solution.

Given that the transducer will ring with the incoming signal at whatever
it's natural frequency is, frequency stability may not matter all that
much. It will filter anthing outside it's bandwidth, also, so using a
tone detector is probably a waste.

I can help you with the code to get timer interrupts working if you
like.

Actually, RF is probably a much better solution. You can get a
transmitter/receiver pair that will do FSK at 300' for under $20 in
single quantity from digikey.

http://tinyurl.com/3ry6w
http://tinyurl.com/6u59j

--
Regards,
Robert Monsen

"Your Highness, I have no need of this hypothesis."
- Pierre Laplace (1749-1827), to Napoleon,
on why his works on celestial mechanics make no mention of God.

 

Hello,

Thankyou all for your responses.

I hope you don't mind if I post questions tomorrow night as I just
spent over three hours trying to get True 300 baud going between the
PICs. Tired and not thinking straight but one things for sure
T300/N300 wont work. It might be a bug in the old PBP version I have.
T1200 baud works fine in a little test program.

Regards,

Andrew.



On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 06:26:35 GMT, (Rubicon) wrote:

Hello,

I'm trying to make a 24kHz ultrasonic transmitter capable of sending
AM serial data to a receiver over a min 30ft range. I have no scope or
frequency counter (looking for a counter locally) and have managed to
get it just-going on occasion over a couple of feet by using high
tolerance components and using an ultrasonic tone controlled switch
kitset as a tuning referance. I'd foolishly thought when I bought the
kit "What are the chances of there being 24kHz lurking about?" Pretty
good actually. Drop a tool on the garage floor, tap the workbench and
away she'd go. Lucky I didn't connect it to the main garage door!

Transmitter.
At present I have a 16F84A PIC sending serial out at T1200 (True
logic) to the reset pin of a 555 timer set for 24kHz. Its output goes
to a 4069 inverter that drives a transducer. The inverter is wired in
parallel, 180 degrees shifted for maximum output. My PIC programmer is
old and doesn't go beyond the 16F84A which is why I'm trying to do it
this way.

TX PIC----555 24kHz----INVERTER----TRANSDUCER

If I connect the TX PIC serial output pin straight to the RX PIC
serial input pin then the receiving LED lights up during the program
cycle just fine. However if I connect the 555 output pin to the RX PIC
then it lights up only occasionally. A sync problem I'm guessing
caused by the 555 duty cycle? It was set to 55% and I changed it to
50% which made things worse. I'm unsure what to do here as I read that
the duty cycle for a transducer should be less than 60% for it to
operate properly and also that connecting a transducer straight to a
555 isn't a good idea. The 555 isn't stable at the resonant frequency
as a reverse voltage causes the frequency to jump about.

I've just seen a circuit where a modulated input goes to the Control
Voltage pin of a 555 (astable mode), the output having a pullup
resistor. Another circuit provides control over the duty cycle without

changing the output pulse frequency.
I can combine them and try it but is it the best way to go about this?
Is there a better way considering the limitations of my PIC?

Perhaps a tone controller or are they not fast enough?
PIC----567----INVERTER----TRANSDUCER

Maybe going up to 40kHz with a crystal locked TX inverter as in the
link below but how does one connect it to the PIC for serial AM? I
have a 40Khz crystal I pulled from some old junk which I could use and
the crystal eliminates tuning. I can't find any 24kHz crystals
locally.
http://info.hobbyengineering.com/specs/DIY-k49.pdf.
PIC----CRYSTAL LOCKED INVERTER----TRANSDUCER

Any advice on how to go about making this work reliably welcome.

Cheers,

Andrew.

 

[Anthony Fremont]

"Robert Monsen" <rcsurname@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Mb6dnaUwOt5W0mDcRVn-gQ@comcast.com...

Anthony Fremont wrote:
Rubicon wrote:

Any advice on how to go about making this work reliably welcome.


The more complicated you make it, the harder it will be to make it
work
reliably. Especially without a scope. Do you have to use
ultrasonics?
How about IR, it should give you as much range with less noise
issues
and virtually no reflection issues. The receiving end is allot
easier
as well since you can use a cheap off the shelf receiver to remove
the
38Khz carrier and give you plain serial data.

You can use a TMR interrupt to generate the 38Khz carrier on the
sending
side, or you could just bit bang it out using inline delay routines.
To
make things simple you could have a TMR interrupt toggle an output
pin
at 38Khz continuously. You then connect this pin to one input of an
AND
gate. You connect another output pin to the remaining input of the
AND
gate and use it to toggle the carrier on and off to send data.


One easy way to do this is to use a flag, set or cleared in the main
loop, that gets xor'd into the port during the interrupt. If the flag
is
1, the value is changed (A xor 1 = ~A), and the port wiggles. If the
flag is 0, the value isn't changed (A xor 0 = A). This saves a pin and
an "and" gate, without substantially changing the code you propose.

Your right of course, that would be the best way.

However, the 555 is perfectly acceptable. It can be made fairly
accurate, within a few percent, using a pot and a frequency counter.
If
the pic is doing other things, using an offchip oscillator may be a
good
solution.

Given that the transducer will ring with the incoming signal at
whatever
it's natural frequency is, frequency stability may not matter all that
much. It will filter anthing outside it's bandwidth, also, so using a
tone detector is probably a waste.

Agreed. Like someone mentioned (maybe it was you), the transducers seem
to act allot like mechanical filters.

I can help you with the code to get timer interrupts working if you
like.


Actually, RF is probably a much better solution. You can get a
transmitter/receiver pair that will do FSK at 300' for under $20 in
single quantity from digikey.

Do they work ok with straight serial data, or should it be encoded so as
to keep duty cycle less than 50%?

http://tinyurl.com/3ry6w

Great reading datasheet. ;-) I really liked the section on "Surviving
an RF Implementation". :-D

> http://tinyurl.com/6u59j

 

[Robert Monsen]

Anthony Fremont wrote:

Do they work ok with straight serial data, or should it be encoded so as
to keep duty cycle less than 50%?

I don't think it matters. The two together function as a pipe,
reproducing bit transitions on the other side. However, using some form
of manchester encoding or a bit stuffing protocol like hdlc might make
clock recovery on the other side easier.

http://tinyurl.com/3ry6w


Great reading datasheet. ;-) I really liked the section on "Surviving
an RF Implementation". :-D


http://tinyurl.com/6u59j

--
Regards,
Robert Monsen

"Your Highness, I have no need of this hypothesis."
- Pierre Laplace (1749-1827), to Napoleon,
on why his works on celestial mechanics make no mention of God.

 

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:38:33 -0000, "Andrew Holme" <andrew@nospam.com>
wrote:

Rubicon wrote:
Hello,

I'm trying to make a 24kHz ultrasonic transmitter capable of sending
AM serial data to a receiver over a min 30ft range. I have no scope or
frequency counter (looking for a counter locally) and have managed to
get it just-going on occasion over a couple of feet by using high
tolerance components and using an ultrasonic tone controlled switch
kitset as a tuning referance. I'd foolishly thought when I bought the
kit "What are the chances of there being 24kHz lurking about?" Pretty
good actually. Drop a tool on the garage floor, tap the workbench and
away she'd go. Lucky I didn't connect it to the main garage door!

Ultrasonic transducers are usually resonant at 40 KHz and their efficiency
and sensitivity are greatly reduced at other frequencies.

Basically mechanical filters.

Transmitter.
At present I have a 16F84A PIC sending serial out at T1200 (True
logic) to the reset pin of a 555 timer set for 24kHz. Its output goes
to a 4069 inverter that drives a transducer. The inverter is wired in
parallel, 180 degrees shifted for maximum output. My PIC programmer is
old and doesn't go beyond the 16F84A which is why I'm trying to do it
this way.

TX PIC----555 24kHz----INVERTER----TRANSDUCER

If I connect the TX PIC serial output pin straight to the RX PIC
serial input pin then the receiving LED lights up during the program
cycle just fine. However if I connect the 555 output pin to the RX PIC
then it lights up only occasionally. A sync problem I'm guessing
caused by the 555 duty cycle? It was set to 55% and I changed it to
50% which made things worse. I'm unsure what to do here as I read that
the duty cycle for a transducer should be less than 60% for it to
operate properly and also that connecting a transducer straight to a
555 isn't a good idea. The 555 isn't stable at the resonant frequency
as a reverse voltage causes the frequency to jump about.

I've just seen a circuit where a modulated input goes to the Control
Voltage pin of a 555 (astable mode), the output having a pullup
resistor. Another circuit provides control over the duty cycle without

changing the output pulse frequency.
I can combine them and try it but is it the best way to go about this?
Is there a better way considering the limitations of my PIC?

Trying to modulating the duty cycle is a bad idea - this will not be
transmitted faithfully over a narrow band link because the "information"
will be in harmonics. Modulating the frequency (FSK = Frequency Shift
Keying) sounds like a better idea. Keep the frequency deviation fairly
small though.

I wasn't going to modulate the duty cycle just adjust it until I had

the best "sync" rate between the 555 and the RX PIC. That was my
theory anyway. I don't know if it would work.

Perhaps a tone controller or are they not fast enough?
PIC----567----INVERTER----TRANSDUCER. The NE567, if that's what you're referring to, is a tone decoder. That
would be a good choice for demodulating FSK at the receiving end. The NE567
can detect a signal buried in noise, but you still might need a little
pre-amplification.

An oscilloscope is essential to develop something like this.

I looking for a second hand one.

Maybe going up to 40kHz with a crystal locked TX inverter as in the
link below but how does one connect it to the PIC for serial AM? I
have a 40Khz crystal I pulled from some old junk which I could use and
the crystal eliminates tuning. I can't find any 24kHz crystals
locally.
http://info.hobbyengineering.com/specs/DIY-k49.pdf.
PIC----CRYSTAL LOCKED INVERTER----TRANSDUCER


You would need a varicap diode to generate FSK from a crystal oscillator.

You can generate AM by making a crystal oscillator from logic gates and then
using a spare NAND or NOR to gate the carrier on and off with the
transmitted data.

Thankyou for the information Andrew.

Regards,

Andrew.

 

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:34:12 GMT, "Anthony Fremont"
<spam@anywhere.com> wrote:

Rubicon wrote:
Hello,

I'm trying to make a 24kHz ultrasonic transmitter capable of sending
AM serial data to a receiver over a min 30ft range. I have no scope or
frequency counter (looking for a counter locally) and have managed to

Personally, I'd recommend getting a scope first. I use my ~20 year old
scope about 100 times as much as I use my frequency counter.

I'm looking for a secondhand one at the moment. They're not that
common on the secondhand market down here but there is a Velleman HPS5
PersonalScope for sale at trademe.co.nz.

get it just-going on occasion over a couple of feet by using high
tolerance components and using an ultrasonic tone controlled switch
kitset as a tuning referance. I'd foolishly thought when I bought the
kit "What are the chances of there being 24kHz lurking about?" Pretty
good actually. Drop a tool on the garage floor, tap the workbench and
away she'd go. Lucky I didn't connect it to the main garage door!

Transmitter.
At present I have a 16F84A PIC sending serial out at T1200 (True
logic) to the reset pin of a 555 timer set for 24kHz. Its output goes
to a 4069 inverter that drives a transducer. The inverter is wired in
parallel, 180 degrees shifted for maximum output. My PIC programmer is
old and doesn't go beyond the 16F84A which is why I'm trying to do it
this way.

TX PIC----555 24kHz----INVERTER----TRANSDUCER

Why not just drive the transducer directly from the PIC? If you put the
transducer accross two output pins, you can develop 10V of drive to the
transducer by alternately driving one high and the other low. It's also
going to be much more accurate at frequency control than the 555.

The trouble with being a rank newbe at PIC programming is one just
doen't know the great things you can do with a PIC. It certainly would
reduce the parts count but more than likely my current programming
skill level and the programmer itself would fail me.

If I connect the TX PIC serial output pin straight to the RX PIC
serial input pin then the receiving LED lights up during the program
cycle just fine. However if I connect the 555 output pin to the RX PIC
then it lights up only occasionally. A sync problem I'm guessing
caused by the 555 duty cycle? It was set to 55% and I changed it to
50% which made things worse. I'm unsure what to do here as I read that
the duty cycle for a transducer should be less than 60% for it to
operate properly and also that connecting a transducer straight to a
555 isn't a good idea. The 555 isn't stable at the resonant frequency
as a reverse voltage causes the frequency to jump about.

If a 1 bit is represented by ~10 cycles of sound and a 0 bit by silence
(or vice versa) you probably have issues with reflected signals
confusing the receiver. At 1200 baud a bit time is about 1mS. Your
sound signals only travel 1 foot during this time, and many reflections
are delayed by several mS. This could result in bits showing up
literally out of sequence to the receiver. You need to slow your baud
rate way down.

I'm trying to do that but there seems to be a bug in the old PicBasic
Pro programmer when it comes to T300/N300. There's another forum I'll
ask in to be sure about this.

You also haven't mentioned any amplification stages on the receiver.
What are you using to condition the received signal before feeding it to
the PIC?

I thought I'd deal with the TX circuit first as the 555 appeared to be
a major problem. The RX consists of a LM833 low noise opamp (set at
about 1400X), a schottky diode detector and a LM393 voltage
comparator. The output then goes to the PIC.

I was thinking of using a LM567 tone detector after the LM833 to
filter out the noise of the opamp, its associated components and other
circuitry at that gain level along with the actual signal. Good idea
or not?

I've just seen a circuit where a modulated input goes to the Control
Voltage pin of a 555 (astable mode), the output having a pullup
resistor. Another circuit provides control over the duty cycle without

changing the output pulse frequency.
I can combine them and try it but is it the best way to go about this?
Is there a better way considering the limitations of my PIC?

Yes, I think there is a better and easier way.

Perhaps a tone controller or are they not fast enough?
PIC----567----INVERTER----TRANSDUCER

Your making it harder than it needs to be.

Maybe going up to 40kHz with a crystal locked TX inverter as in the
link below but how does one connect it to the PIC for serial AM? I
have a 40Khz crystal I pulled from some old junk which I could use and
the crystal eliminates tuning. I can't find any 24kHz crystals
locally.
http://info.hobbyengineering.com/specs/DIY-k49.pdf.
PIC----CRYSTAL LOCKED INVERTER----TRANSDUCER

Now you are aproaching Rube Goldberg status. ;-)

I don't understand the reference here but I do see a wink!

Wouldn't a crystal make things a little more "solid" and temperature
stable?

Any advice on how to go about making this work reliably welcome.

The more complicated you make it, the harder it will be to make it work
reliably. Especially without a scope. Do you have to use ultrasonics?
How about IR, it should give you as much range with less noise issues
and virtually no reflection issues. The receiving end is allot easier
as well since you can use a cheap off the shelf receiver to remove the
38Khz carrier and give you plain serial data.

Yes, I do like adding lights and switches to things a little too much.

I'd rather keep to the ultrasonic path. I already have so much of the
required components and I also find it interesting.

You can use a TMR interrupt to generate the 38Khz carrier on the sending
side, or you could just bit bang it out using inline delay routines. To
make things simple you could have a TMR interrupt toggle an output pin
at 38Khz continuously. You then connect this pin to one input of an AND
gate. You connect another output pin to the remaining input of the AND
gate and use it to toggle the carrier on and off to send data.

I roughly understand what you mean with the TMR and interrupts but as
mentioned I'm a rank novice and not capable of it yet. My knowledge of
electronics and PIC programming is like Swiss cheese.

I can help you with the code to get timer interrupts working if you
like.

That would be great but I don't wish to take up too much of your time.

PBP allows me to insert assembly code but if I can get a detailed
"Process" then I can read up on it and also ask the PBP forum for help
to convert it to Picbasic. No offence I hope.

I think perhaps the AND gate would be best method. Simple is good.

The PICs have 4MHz crystals and the TX PIC input/output pins are
completely free with the exception of one required for an indicator
LED. The RX PIC has the watchdog timer set for napping and sleeping to
conserve power. During its cycle it currently checks for a manual
button push, then listens for any incoming signal before timing out,
sleeping then starting over.
Help with the code for both 24kHz and 40kHz transducers would be
appreciated as I have both types to play with.


Thankyou Anthony for your advice and kind offer.

Time for bed.

Regards,

Andrew.