U.S. Pat 6,366,028 LED Flashlight Circuit

  • Thread starter Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun
  • Start date
W

Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun

Guest
I built the circuit in the above patent (www.uspto.gov) that CMG uses
in their Infinity flashlight. Essentially it's an asymmetrical
astable multivibrator F-F, with one collector load being an inductor.
I used a 100 uH instead of the 220 uH that the schem calls for. The
transistors weren't given, so I used BC337-25 for both.

My problem is that it starts to oscillate a .65V, and if I go over
1.14VDC, it quits. The freq is 822(!) kHz, very high for these
circuits, but the patent says it's supposed to be about 500 kHz. I'm
gonna try a larger inductance to see what happens. I'm using the
values for the two caps of 1000 pF and 330 pF.

Right now, I can't even get it to work on a single AA Ni-MH cell,
because the voltage is too high. :-( I'm gonna increase some of the
resistor values to see if it helps and slows it down to below the AM
BCB. It comes in loud and clear on the radio.


--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@
 
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:MPG.1a340519c30de629899ab@news.dslextreme.com...
I built the circuit in the above patent (www.uspto.gov) that CMG uses
in their Infinity flashlight. Essentially it's an asymmetrical
astable multivibrator F-F, with one collector load being an inductor.
I used a 100 uH instead of the 220 uH that the schem calls for. The
transistors weren't given, so I used BC337-25 for both.

My problem is that it starts to oscillate a .65V, and if I go over
1.14VDC, it quits. The freq is 822(!) kHz, very high for these
circuits, but the patent says it's supposed to be about 500 kHz. I'm
gonna try a larger inductance to see what happens. I'm using the
values for the two caps of 1000 pF and 330 pF.

Right now, I can't even get it to work on a single AA Ni-MH cell,
because the voltage is too high. :-( I'm gonna increase some of the
resistor values to see if it helps and slows it down to below the AM
BCB. It comes in loud and clear on the radio.
Click to expand...

http://www.elektor-electronics.co.uk/miniproj/frmipro.htm

june 2002, LED torch

That works well on one AA battery with white LEDS, you can pretty much get
it to drive whatever you want from whatever source you want and I think it
does the job as well as any I've seen.
 
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" wrote:
I built the circuit in the above patent (www.uspto.gov) that CMG uses
in their Infinity flashlight. Essentially it's an asymmetrical
astable multivibrator F-F, with one collector load being an inductor.
I used a 100 uH instead of the 220 uH that the schem calls for. The
transistors weren't given, so I used BC337-25 for both.

My problem is that it starts to oscillate a .65V, and if I go over
1.14VDC, it quits. The freq is 822(!) kHz, very high for these
circuits, but the patent says it's supposed to be about 500 kHz. I'm
gonna try a larger inductance to see what happens. I'm using the
values for the two caps of 1000 pF and 330 pF.

Right now, I can't even get it to work on a single AA Ni-MH cell,
because the voltage is too high. :-( I'm gonna increase some of the
resistor values to see if it helps and slows it down to below the AM
BCB. It comes in loud and clear on the radio.
Click to expand...
I get "No such Patent Number found, please check the number
and try again" at www.uspto.gov when searching on 6366028
 
<ehsjr@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
news:3FCA933B.44C8B884@bellatlantic.net...
:
: "Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" wrote:
: >
: > I built the circuit in the above patent (www.uspto.gov) that
CMG uses
: > in their Infinity flashlight. Essentially it's an
asymmetrical
: > astable multivibrator F-F, with one collector load being an
inductor.
: > I used a 100 uH instead of the 220 uH that the schem calls
for. The
: > transistors weren't given, so I used BC337-25 for both.
: >
: > My problem is that it starts to oscillate a .65V, and if I go
over
: > 1.14VDC, it quits. The freq is 822(!) kHz, very high for
these
: > circuits, but the patent says it's supposed to be about 500
kHz. I'm
: > gonna try a larger inductance to see what happens. I'm using
the
: > values for the two caps of 1000 pF and 330 pF.
: >
: > Right now, I can't even get it to work on a single AA Ni-MH
cell,
: > because the voltage is too high. :-( I'm gonna increase
some of the
: > resistor values to see if it helps and slows it down to below
the AM
: > BCB. It comes in loud and clear on the radio.
:
: I get "No such Patent Number found, please check the number
: and try again" at www.uspto.gov when searching on 6366028

I found it easily. You need to put in the
commas. 6,366,028, use Patent Number Search.

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - willy4SPAM6pa@comXcast.net
Remove - SPAM and X to contact me



---
This email ain't infected, dude!

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.544 / Virus Database: 338 - Release Date: 11/25/03
 
In article <RVvyb.1411$Lv1.32@newsfep3-gui.server.ntli.net>,
mjolinor@hotmail.com mentioned...
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:MPG.1a340519c30de629899ab@news.dslextreme.com...
I built the circuit in the above patent (www.uspto.gov) that CMG uses
in their Infinity flashlight. Essentially it's an asymmetrical
astable multivibrator F-F, with one collector load being an inductor.
I used a 100 uH instead of the 220 uH that the schem calls for. The
transistors weren't given, so I used BC337-25 for both.

My problem is that it starts to oscillate a .65V, and if I go over
1.14VDC, it quits. The freq is 822(!) kHz, very high for these
circuits, but the patent says it's supposed to be about 500 kHz. I'm
gonna try a larger inductance to see what happens. I'm using the
values for the two caps of 1000 pF and 330 pF.

Right now, I can't even get it to work on a single AA Ni-MH cell,
because the voltage is too high. :-( I'm gonna increase some of the
resistor values to see if it helps and slows it down to below the AM
BCB. It comes in loud and clear on the radio.


http://www.elektor-electronics.co.uk/miniproj/frmipro.htm

june 2002, LED torch

That works well on one AA battery with white LEDS, you can pretty much get
it to drive whatever you want from whatever source you want and I think it
does the job as well as any I've seen.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the idea. But by their own admission in the article, the
total current drawn from the single cell is 20 mA, multiplied by 1.5V,
gives 30 mW total. When accounting for the efficiency, this gives
less than 1/4 the light output the LED is capable of. The BC547
transistors do not have a low enough Vce(sat) at higher currents, so
they can't drive the LED to full brightness. The mini choke should be
checked to make sure it has low enough resistance to allow the
required current. A single LED needs at least 120 mW for full
brightness, that's 80 mA at 1.5VDC. But if the circuit is only 67%
efficient, then the total battery current should be about 120 mA.

--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@
 
In article <3FCA933B.44C8B884@bellatlantic.net>,
ehsjr@bellatlantic.net mentioned...
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" wrote:

I built the circuit in the above patent (www.uspto.gov) that CMG uses
in their Infinity flashlight. Essentially it's an asymmetrical
astable multivibrator F-F, with one collector load being an inductor.
I used a 100 uH instead of the 220 uH that the schem calls for. The
transistors weren't given, so I used BC337-25 for both.

My problem is that it starts to oscillate a .65V, and if I go over
1.14VDC, it quits. The freq is 822(!) kHz, very high for these
circuits, but the patent says it's supposed to be about 500 kHz. I'm
gonna try a larger inductance to see what happens. I'm using the
values for the two caps of 1000 pF and 330 pF.

Right now, I can't even get it to work on a single AA Ni-MH cell,
because the voltage is too high. :-( I'm gonna increase some of the
resistor values to see if it helps and slows it down to below the AM
BCB. It comes in loud and clear on the radio.

I get "No such Patent Number found, please check the number
and try again" at www.uspto.gov when searching on 6366028
Click to expand...
Well, I'm holding the original printout and that's the right number.
Did you do the right things, like including the commas?


--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@
 
On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:28:54 -0800, Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, Dark
Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> Gave us:

Well, I'm holding the original printout and that's the right number.
Did you do the right things, like including the commas?
Click to expand...
I found it on the first search I did on the site, and the commas are
NOT required.
 
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:MPG.1a3461f6f569751f9899b0@news.dslextreme.com...
In article <RVvyb.1411$Lv1.32@newsfep3-gui.server.ntli.net>,
mjolinor@hotmail.com mentioned...

"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote
in
message news:MPG.1a340519c30de629899ab@news.dslextreme.com...
I built the circuit in the above patent (www.uspto.gov) that CMG uses
in their Infinity flashlight. Essentially it's an asymmetrical
astable multivibrator F-F, with one collector load being an inductor.
I used a 100 uH instead of the 220 uH that the schem calls for. The
transistors weren't given, so I used BC337-25 for both.

My problem is that it starts to oscillate a .65V, and if I go over
1.14VDC, it quits. The freq is 822(!) kHz, very high for these
circuits, but the patent says it's supposed to be about 500 kHz. I'm
gonna try a larger inductance to see what happens. I'm using the
values for the two caps of 1000 pF and 330 pF.

Right now, I can't even get it to work on a single AA Ni-MH cell,
because the voltage is too high. :-( I'm gonna increase some of the
resistor values to see if it helps and slows it down to below the AM
BCB. It comes in loud and clear on the radio.
Click to expand...
I found the patent but I can't display the drawings, any chance of putting
it somewhere or sending it by email to me so I can read it please. dknpower
at ntlworld.com
 
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:MPG.1a3461f6f569751f9899b0@news.dslextreme.com...
In article <RVvyb.1411$Lv1.32@newsfep3-gui.server.ntli.net>,
mjolinor@hotmail.com mentioned...

"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote
in
message news:MPG.1a340519c30de629899ab@news.dslextreme.com...
I built the circuit in the above patent (www.uspto.gov) that CMG uses
in their Infinity flashlight. Essentially it's an asymmetrical
astable multivibrator F-F, with one collector load being an inductor.
I used a 100 uH instead of the 220 uH that the schem calls for. The
transistors weren't given, so I used BC337-25 for both.

My problem is that it starts to oscillate a .65V, and if I go over
1.14VDC, it quits. The freq is 822(!) kHz, very high for these
circuits, but the patent says it's supposed to be about 500 kHz. I'm
gonna try a larger inductance to see what happens. I'm using the
values for the two caps of 1000 pF and 330 pF.

Right now, I can't even get it to work on a single AA Ni-MH cell,
because the voltage is too high. :-( I'm gonna increase some of the
resistor values to see if it helps and slows it down to below the AM
BCB. It comes in loud and clear on the radio.


http://www.elektor-electronics.co.uk/miniproj/frmipro.htm

june 2002, LED torch

That works well on one AA battery with white LEDS, you can pretty much
get
it to drive whatever you want from whatever source you want and I think
it
does the job as well as any I've seen.

Thanks for the idea. But by their own admission in the article, the
total current drawn from the single cell is 20 mA, multiplied by 1.5V,
gives 30 mW total. When accounting for the efficiency, this gives
less than 1/4 the light output the LED is capable of. The BC547
transistors do not have a low enough Vce(sat) at higher currents, so
they can't drive the LED to full brightness. The mini choke should be
checked to make sure it has low enough resistance to allow the
required current. A single LED needs at least 120 mW for full
brightness, that's 80 mA at 1.5VDC. But if the circuit is only 67%
efficient, then the total battery current should be about 120 mA.
Click to expand...

I did some messing with the a circuit very similar to the one in the above
link. I didn't use BC547 transistors :)

results, Y axis = resistance of LDR (ohms) and X axis = power (mW)
http://www.dknpowerline.com/Pictures/led.gif

With the LED mounted next to an LDR and never moved I used a current source
(blue diamonds), voltage source and resistor (orange squares) and the purple
square and yellow triangle were using the oscillator circuit.

I figured that current source was the most efficient, voltage source least
efficient and the nearer I could get to the current source graph then the
more efficient my torch was. I thought the result was pretty good.
 
In article <SUDyb.147$4P5.62@newsfep3-gui.server.ntli.net>,
mjolinor@hotmail.com mentioned...
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:MPG.1a3461f6f569751f9899b0@news.dslextreme.com...
In article <RVvyb.1411$Lv1.32@newsfep3-gui.server.ntli.net>,
mjolinor@hotmail.com mentioned...

"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote
in
message news:MPG.1a340519c30de629899ab@news.dslextreme.com...
I built the circuit in the above patent (www.uspto.gov) that CMG uses
in their Infinity flashlight. Essentially it's an asymmetrical
astable multivibrator F-F, with one collector load being an inductor.
I used a 100 uH instead of the 220 uH that the schem calls for. The
transistors weren't given, so I used BC337-25 for both.

My problem is that it starts to oscillate a .65V, and if I go over
1.14VDC, it quits. The freq is 822(!) kHz, very high for these
circuits, but the patent says it's supposed to be about 500 kHz. I'm
gonna try a larger inductance to see what happens. I'm using the
values for the two caps of 1000 pF and 330 pF.

Right now, I can't even get it to work on a single AA Ni-MH cell,
because the voltage is too high. :-( I'm gonna increase some of the
resistor values to see if it helps and slows it down to below the AM
BCB. It comes in loud and clear on the radio.

I found the patent but I can't display the drawings, any chance of putting
it somewhere or sending it by email to me so I can read it please. dknpower
at ntlworld.com
Click to expand...
I don't have it at home, I d/l'd and printed it at work because it's a
big file, probably too big to email.

I downloaded the plug-in to allow viewing of the .TIF files. It's
free. I think it's AlternaTIFF.


--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@
 
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:MPG.1a34ea627471def79899b9@news.dslextreme.com...
In article <SUDyb.147$4P5.62@newsfep3-gui.server.ntli.net>,
mjolinor@hotmail.com mentioned...

"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote
in
message news:MPG.1a3461f6f569751f9899b0@news.dslextreme.com...
In article <RVvyb.1411$Lv1.32@newsfep3-gui.server.ntli.net>,
mjolinor@hotmail.com mentioned...

"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com
wrote
in
message news:MPG.1a340519c30de629899ab@news.dslextreme.com...
I built the circuit in the above patent (www.uspto.gov) that CMG
uses
in their Infinity flashlight. Essentially it's an asymmetrical
astable multivibrator F-F, with one collector load being an
inductor.
I used a 100 uH instead of the 220 uH that the schem calls for.
The
transistors weren't given, so I used BC337-25 for both.

My problem is that it starts to oscillate a .65V, and if I go over
1.14VDC, it quits. The freq is 822(!) kHz, very high for these
circuits, but the patent says it's supposed to be about 500 kHz.
I'm
gonna try a larger inductance to see what happens. I'm using the
values for the two caps of 1000 pF and 330 pF.

Right now, I can't even get it to work on a single AA Ni-MH cell,
because the voltage is too high. :-( I'm gonna increase some of
the
resistor values to see if it helps and slows it down to below the
AM
BCB. It comes in loud and clear on the radio.

I found the patent but I can't display the drawings, any chance of
putting
it somewhere or sending it by email to me so I can read it please.
dknpower
at ntlworld.com

I don't have it at home, I d/l'd and printed it at work because it's a
big file, probably too big to email.

I downloaded the plug-in to allow viewing of the .TIF files. It's
free. I think it's AlternaTIFF.
Click to expand...
Got it sorted and can look now. It's essentially the same circuit really its
just a matter of dumping the inductor into the LED and messing about with
the components until you get it to run off whatever voltage you need it to
run off. When I was messing I couldn't find any concrete effect from
altering the frequency in terms of efficiency, I did sort of half believe
that the slower it went the more efficient it was but the improvement wasn't
really enough to be sure and if you went too slow the LED visibly flashed,
most annoying..
 
"Mjolinor" <mjolinor@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:RVvyb.1411$Lv1.32@newsfep3-gui.server.ntli.net...
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:MPG.1a340519c30de629899ab@news.dslextreme.com...
I built the circuit in the above patent (www.uspto.gov) that CMG uses
in their Infinity flashlight. Essentially it's an asymmetrical
astable multivibrator F-F, with one collector load being an inductor.
I used a 100 uH instead of the 220 uH that the schem calls for. The
transistors weren't given, so I used BC337-25 for both.

My problem is that it starts to oscillate a .65V, and if I go over
1.14VDC, it quits. The freq is 822(!) kHz, very high for these
circuits, but the patent says it's supposed to be about 500 kHz. I'm
gonna try a larger inductance to see what happens. I'm using the
values for the two caps of 1000 pF and 330 pF.

Right now, I can't even get it to work on a single AA Ni-MH cell,
because the voltage is too high. :-( I'm gonna increase some of the
resistor values to see if it helps and slows it down to below the AM
BCB. It comes in loud and clear on the radio.


http://www.elektor-electronics.co.uk/miniproj/frmipro.htm

june 2002, LED torch

That works well on one AA battery with white LEDS, you can pretty much get
it to drive whatever you want from whatever source you want and I think it
does the job as well as any I've seen.
Click to expand...
Oddly enough, the big blue LEDs I have seem to have lots of capacitance.
Thus, if you put a diode in series with the LED, the efficiency seems to go
way up.

Here is the circuit I'm using; I built it, and its working quite well...
According to simulations, the efficiency is better than 50%, and the current
spikes reach about 100mA...

http://home.comcast.net/~rcmonsen/misc/ledtorch.jpg

Should I patent it? I mean, the part about using the extra diode? :)

The original circuit abuses the transistors as well by generating large
negative spikes. This one does somewhat better. Maybe it was the capacitance
of the LED, although I don't really understand the effect.

Regards,
Bob Monsen
 
"Robert Monsen" <postmaster@BulkingPro.com> wrote in message
news:seMyb.275196$ao4.946277@attbi_s51...
: "Mjolinor" <mjolinor@hotmail.com> wrote in message
: news:RVvyb.1411$Lv1.32@newsfep3-gui.server.ntli.net...
: >
: > "Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover"
<alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in
: > message news:MPG.1a340519c30de629899ab@news.dslextreme.com...
: > > I built the circuit in the above patent (www.uspto.gov)
that CMG uses
: > > in their Infinity flashlight. Essentially it's an
asymmetrical
: > > astable multivibrator F-F, with one collector load being an
inductor.
: > > I used a 100 uH instead of the 220 uH that the schem calls
for. The
: > > transistors weren't given, so I used BC337-25 for both.
: > >
: > > My problem is that it starts to oscillate a .65V, and if I
go over
: > > 1.14VDC, it quits. The freq is 822(!) kHz, very high for
these
: > > circuits, but the patent says it's supposed to be about 500
kHz. I'm
: > > gonna try a larger inductance to see what happens. I'm
using the
: > > values for the two caps of 1000 pF and 330 pF.
: > >
: > > Right now, I can't even get it to work on a single AA Ni-MH
cell,
: > > because the voltage is too high. :-( I'm gonna increase
some of the
: > > resistor values to see if it helps and slows it down to
below the AM
: > > BCB. It comes in loud and clear on the radio.
: >
: >
: > http://www.elektor-electronics.co.uk/miniproj/frmipro.htm
: >
: > june 2002, LED torch
: >
: > That works well on one AA battery with white LEDS, you can
pretty much get
: > it to drive whatever you want from whatever source you want
and I think it
: > does the job as well as any I've seen.
:
: Oddly enough, the big blue LEDs I have seem to have lots of
capacitance.
: Thus, if you put a diode in series with the LED, the efficiency
seems to go
: way up.
:
: Here is the circuit I'm using; I built it, and its working
quite well...
: According to simulations, the efficiency is better than 50%,
and the current
: spikes reach about 100mA...
:
: http://home.comcast.net/~rcmonsen/misc/ledtorch.jpg

Forgive me if I seem less than knowledgeable,
but is uH the same as uF?

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - willy4SPAM6pa@comXcast.net
Remove - SPAM and X to contact me



---
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Bill Garber wrote:
"Robert Monsen" <postmaster@BulkingPro.com> wrote in message
news:seMyb.275196$ao4.946277@attbi_s51...
: "Mjolinor" <mjolinor@hotmail.com> wrote in message
: news:RVvyb.1411$Lv1.32@newsfep3-gui.server.ntli.net...
:
: > "Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover"
alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in
: > message news:MPG.1a340519c30de629899ab@news.dslextreme.com...
: > > I built the circuit in the above patent (www.uspto.gov)
that CMG uses
: > > in their Infinity flashlight. Essentially it's an
asymmetrical
: > > astable multivibrator F-F, with one collector load being an
inductor.
: > > I used a 100 uH instead of the 220 uH that the schem calls
for. The
: > > transistors weren't given, so I used BC337-25 for both.
:
: > > My problem is that it starts to oscillate a .65V, and if I
go over
: > > 1.14VDC, it quits. The freq is 822(!) kHz, very high for
these
: > > circuits, but the patent says it's supposed to be about 500
kHz. I'm
: > > gonna try a larger inductance to see what happens. I'm
using the
: > > values for the two caps of 1000 pF and 330 pF.
:
: > > Right now, I can't even get it to work on a single AA Ni-MH
cell,
: > > because the voltage is too high. :-( I'm gonna increase
some of the
: > > resistor values to see if it helps and slows it down to
below the AM
: > > BCB. It comes in loud and clear on the radio.
:
:
: > http://www.elektor-electronics.co.uk/miniproj/frmipro.htm
:
: > june 2002, LED torch
:
: > That works well on one AA battery with white LEDS, you can
pretty much get
: > it to drive whatever you want from whatever source you want
and I think it
: > does the job as well as any I've seen.
:
: Oddly enough, the big blue LEDs I have seem to have lots of
capacitance.
: Thus, if you put a diode in series with the LED, the efficiency
seems to go
: way up.
:
: Here is the circuit I'm using; I built it, and its working
quite well...
: According to simulations, the efficiency is better than 50%,
and the current
: spikes reach about 100mA...
:
: http://home.comcast.net/~rcmonsen/misc/ledtorch.jpg

Forgive me if I seem less than knowledgeable,
but is uH the same as uF?

Bill
Click to expand...
ľF is microfarad, a unit of capacitance

ľH is microhenry, a unit of inductance
--
24 days!


Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in
message news:3FCBB695.5F609BFF@earthlink.net...
: Bill Garber wrote:
: >
: > "Robert Monsen" <postmaster@BulkingPro.com> wrote in message
: > news:seMyb.275196$ao4.946277@attbi_s51...
: > : "Mjolinor" <mjolinor@hotmail.com> wrote in message
: > : news:RVvyb.1411$Lv1.32@newsfep3-gui.server.ntli.net...
: > : >
: > : > "Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover"
: > <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in
: > : > message
news:MPG.1a340519c30de629899ab@news.dslextreme.com...
: > : > > I built the circuit in the above patent (www.uspto.gov)
: > that CMG uses
: > : > > in their Infinity flashlight. Essentially it's an
snip

: > below the AM
Click to expand...
: > : > > BCB. It comes in loud and clear on the radio.
: > : >
: > : >
: > : > http://www.elektor-electronics.co.uk/miniproj/frmipro.htm
: > : >
: > : > june 2002, LED torch
: > : >
: > : > That works well on one AA battery with white LEDS, you
can
: > pretty much get
: > : > it to drive whatever you want from whatever source you
want
: > and I think it
: > : > does the job as well as any I've seen.
: > :
: > : Oddly enough, the big blue LEDs I have seem to have lots of
: > capacitance.
: > : Thus, if you put a diode in series with the LED, the
efficiency
: > seems to go
: > : way up.
: > :
: > : Here is the circuit I'm using; I built it, and its working
: > quite well...
: > : According to simulations, the efficiency is better than
50%,
: > and the current
: > : spikes reach about 100mA...
: > :
: > : http://home.comcast.net/~rcmonsen/misc/ledtorch.jpg
: >
: > Forgive me if I seem less than knowledgeable,
: > but is uH the same as uF?
: >
: > Bill
:
: ľF is microfarad, a unit of capacitance
:
: ľH is microhenry, a unit of inductance

Are there certain types of device that produce
inductance? Sorry if I am asking so many questions,
I've only ever done repairs to electronic devices
by advisement of technical personnel.

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - willy4SPAM6pa@comXcast.net
Remove - SPAM and X to contact me



---
This email ain't infected, dude!

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.544 / Virus Database: 338 - Release Date: 11/26/03
 
"Bill Garber" <willy46pa@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:9oednZ_46ejvIlaiRVn-hA@comcast.com...
[nip]
Are there certain types of device that produce
inductance? Sorry if I am asking so many questions,
I've only ever done repairs to electronic devices
by advisement of technical personnel.
Click to expand...
No problem.

Yes, they are called inductors. You can buy inductors (chokes, coils, they
have lots of names) at radioshack, or various other electronics suppliers.

You can also make them by making a coil of wire. The idea is to reinforce
the magnetic field that gets generated when current flows through a wire.
Inductors basically build up a magnetic field, the value of which is related
to the current flowing through the coil.

The 'formula' for making them depends on their radius, length, number of
turns, and 'core material'.

L = mu(r) * (N^2 * A / l) * 1.26e-6

where mu(r) is the relative permeability of the core material, which is
simply 1 for air; N is the number of turns of the coil; A is the area of a
loop of the coil in sq meters; and, l is the length of the coil in meters.
(The 1.26e-6 term is the permeability of air in SI units, called mu nought.
Its a fudge factor for using SI units. The real formula is permeability of
the core times turns squared times area over length.)

So, to get 33uH on an air coil, you need about 82 turns of wire on a 1cm
diameter coil of 2cm length. If you use an iron or steel core, you'll need
considerably fewer turns.

Regards,
Bob Monsen
 
"Robert Monsen" <postmaster@BulkingPro.com> wrote in message
news:5gQyb.270784$mZ5.1969047@attbi_s54...
: "Bill Garber" <willy46pa@comcast.net> wrote in message
: news:9oednZ_46ejvIlaiRVn-hA@comcast.com...
: [nip]
: > Are there certain types of device that produce
: > inductance? Sorry if I am asking so many questions,
: > I've only ever done repairs to electronic devices
: > by advisement of technical personnel.
:
: No problem.
:
: Yes, they are called inductors. You can buy inductors (chokes,
coils, they
: have lots of names) at radioshack, or various other electronics
suppliers.
:
: You can also make them by making a coil of wire. The idea is to
reinforce
: the magnetic field that gets generated when current flows
through a wire.
: Inductors basically build up a magnetic field, the value of
which is related
: to the current flowing through the coil.
:
: The 'formula' for making them depends on their radius, length,
number of
: turns, and 'core material'.
:
: L = mu(r) * (N^2 * A / l) * 1.26e-6
:
: where mu(r) is the relative permeability of the core material,
which is
: simply 1 for air; N is the number of turns of the coil; A is
the area of a
: loop of the coil in sq meters; and, l is the length of the coil
in meters.
: (The 1.26e-6 term is the permeability of air in SI units,
called mu nought.
: Its a fudge factor for using SI units. The real formula is
permeability of
: the core times turns squared times area over length.)
:
: So, to get 33uH on an air coil, you need about 82 turns of wire
on a 1cm
: diameter coil of 2cm length. If you use an iron or steel core,
you'll need
: considerably fewer turns.
:
: Regards,
: Bob Monsen

Thank you Bob. I did discover that they were chokes/coils,
as I had suspected, but your explanation of their construction
and how they are formulated made it very clear. I now know
what to call them and how to find out what their ratings are
when I reverse-engineer a circuit. Incidentally, is there an easy
method for taking a reading on them to find out their value?

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - willy4SPAM6pa@comXcast.net
Remove - SPAM and X to contact me



---
This email ain't infected, dude!

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.544 / Virus Database: 338 - Release Date: 11/26/03
 
"Bill Garber" <willy46pa@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:7s6dnUCrIvEdS1aiRVn-gw@comcast.com...
"Robert Monsen" <postmaster@BulkingPro.com> wrote in message
news:5gQyb.270784$mZ5.1969047@attbi_s54...
: "Bill Garber" <willy46pa@comcast.net> wrote in message
: news:9oednZ_46ejvIlaiRVn-hA@comcast.com...
: [nip]
: > Are there certain types of device that produce
: > inductance? Sorry if I am asking so many questions,
: > I've only ever done repairs to electronic devices
: > by advisement of technical personnel.
:
: No problem.
:
: Yes, they are called inductors. You can buy inductors (chokes,
coils, they
: have lots of names) at radioshack, or various other electronics
suppliers.
:
: You can also make them by making a coil of wire. The idea is to
reinforce
: the magnetic field that gets generated when current flows
through a wire.
: Inductors basically build up a magnetic field, the value of
which is related
: to the current flowing through the coil.
:
: The 'formula' for making them depends on their radius, length,
number of
: turns, and 'core material'.
:
: L = mu(r) * (N^2 * A / l) * 1.26e-6
:
: where mu(r) is the relative permeability of the core material,
which is
: simply 1 for air; N is the number of turns of the coil; A is
the area of a
: loop of the coil in sq meters; and, l is the length of the coil
in meters.
: (The 1.26e-6 term is the permeability of air in SI units,
called mu nought.
: Its a fudge factor for using SI units. The real formula is
permeability of
: the core times turns squared times area over length.)
:
: So, to get 33uH on an air coil, you need about 82 turns of wire
on a 1cm
: diameter coil of 2cm length. If you use an iron or steel core,
you'll need
: considerably fewer turns.
:
: Regards,
: Bob Monsen

Thank you Bob. I did discover that they were chokes/coils,
as I had suspected, but your explanation of their construction
and how they are formulated made it very clear. I now know
what to call them and how to find out what their ratings are
when I reverse-engineer a circuit. Incidentally, is there an easy
method for taking a reading on them to find out their value?
Click to expand...
Yes, you can buy inductance meters. I've heard a rumor that this is a good
one:

http://www.aade.com/lcm2binst/LC2Binst.htm

If you have access to a signal generator, you can test them directly by
observing the resonance frequency of a circuit with an inductor and a
capacitor of known value, using the equation

L = 1/((2*PI*f)^2 * C)

There are also markings on them to tell you what their inductance value is.
They use the same color scheme as resistors, except that the value depicted
is in micro-henries (uH) rather than ohms. So, a 33uH inductor will be
orange orange black, and then a color band for precision. There are other
schemes for marking as well, see a book such as "Practical Electronics for
Inventors" by Sherz at your library for more details on inductor markings.
There are also websites that have this information.

Regards,
Bob Monsen
 
"Robert Monsen" <postmaster@BulkingPro.com> wrote in message
news:ijRyb.275226$9E1.1431278@attbi_s52...
:
: "Bill Garber" <willy46pa@comcast.net> wrote in message
: news:7s6dnUCrIvEdS1aiRVn-gw@comcast.com...
: >
: > "Robert Monsen" <postmaster@BulkingPro.com> wrote in message
: > news:5gQyb.270784$mZ5.1969047@attbi_s54...
: > : "Bill Garber" <willy46pa@comcast.net> wrote in message
: > : news:9oednZ_46ejvIlaiRVn-hA@comcast.com...
: > : [nip]
: > : > Are there certain types of device that produce
: > : > inductance? Sorry if I am asking so many questions,
: > : > I've only ever done repairs to electronic devices
: > : > by advisement of technical personnel.
: > :
: > : No problem.
: > :
: > : Yes, they are called inductors. You can buy inductors
(chokes,
: > coils, they
: > : have lots of names) at radioshack, or various other
electronics
: > suppliers.
: > :
: > : You can also make them by making a coil of wire. The idea
is to
: > reinforce
: > : the magnetic field that gets generated when current flows
: > through a wire.
: > : Inductors basically build up a magnetic field, the value of
: > which is related
: > : to the current flowing through the coil.
: > :
: > : The 'formula' for making them depends on their radius,
length,
: > number of
: > : turns, and 'core material'.
: > :
: > : L = mu(r) * (N^2 * A / l) * 1.26e-6
: > :
: > : where mu(r) is the relative permeability of the core
material,
: > which is
: > : simply 1 for air; N is the number of turns of the coil; A
is
: > the area of a
: > : loop of the coil in sq meters; and, l is the length of the
coil
: > in meters.
: > : (The 1.26e-6 term is the permeability of air in SI units,
: > called mu nought.
: > : Its a fudge factor for using SI units. The real formula is
: > permeability of
: > : the core times turns squared times area over length.)
: > :
: > : So, to get 33uH on an air coil, you need about 82 turns of
wire
: > on a 1cm
: > : diameter coil of 2cm length. If you use an iron or steel
core,
: > you'll need
: > : considerably fewer turns.
: > :
: > : Regards,
: > : Bob Monsen
: >
: > Thank you Bob. I did discover that they were chokes/coils,
: > as I had suspected, but your explanation of their
construction
: > and how they are formulated made it very clear. I now know
: > what to call them and how to find out what their ratings are
: > when I reverse-engineer a circuit. Incidentally, is there an
easy
: > method for taking a reading on them to find out their value?
:
: Yes, you can buy inductance meters. I've heard a rumor that
this is a good
: one:
:
: http://www.aade.com/lcm2binst/LC2Binst.htm
:
: If you have access to a signal generator, you can test them
directly by
: observing the resonance frequency of a circuit with an inductor
and a
: capacitor of known value, using the equation
:
: L = 1/((2*PI*f)^2 * C)
:
: There are also markings on them to tell you what their
inductance value is.
: They use the same color scheme as resistors, except that the
value depicted
: is in micro-henries (uH) rather than ohms. So, a 33uH inductor
will be
: orange orange black, and then a color band for precision. There
are other
: schemes for marking as well, see a book such as "Practical
Electronics for
: Inventors" by Sherz at your library for more details on
inductor markings.
: There are also websites that have this information.
:
: Regards,
: Bob Monsen

Thanks Bob, I will look for some sites.
I've never seen ones marked before, but
then again, I wasn't sure what they were
either. Thanks again.

Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-)
Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com
Email - willy4SPAM6pa@comXcast.net
Remove - SPAM and X to contact me



---
This email ain't infected, dude!

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.544 / Virus Database: 338 - Release Date: 11/26/03
 
In article <UKIyb.737$4P5.672@newsfep3-gui.server.ntli.net>,
mjolinor@hotmail.com mentioned...
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:MPG.1a34ea627471def79899b9@news.dslextreme.com...
In article <SUDyb.147$4P5.62@newsfep3-gui.server.ntli.net>,
mjolinor@hotmail.com mentioned...

"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote
in
message news:MPG.1a3461f6f569751f9899b0@news.dslextreme.com...
In article <RVvyb.1411$Lv1.32@newsfep3-gui.server.ntli.net>,
mjolinor@hotmail.com mentioned...

"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun, Dark Remover" <alondra101@hotmail.com
wrote
in
message news:MPG.1a340519c30de629899ab@news.dslextreme.com...
I built the circuit in the above patent (www.uspto.gov) that CMG
uses
in their Infinity flashlight. Essentially it's an asymmetrical
astable multivibrator F-F, with one collector load being an
inductor.
I used a 100 uH instead of the 220 uH that the schem calls for.
The
transistors weren't given, so I used BC337-25 for both.

My problem is that it starts to oscillate a .65V, and if I go over
1.14VDC, it quits. The freq is 822(!) kHz, very high for these
circuits, but the patent says it's supposed to be about 500 kHz.
I'm
gonna try a larger inductance to see what happens. I'm using the
values for the two caps of 1000 pF and 330 pF.

Right now, I can't even get it to work on a single AA Ni-MH cell,
because the voltage is too high. :-( I'm gonna increase some of
the
resistor values to see if it helps and slows it down to below the
AM
BCB. It comes in loud and clear on the radio.

I found the patent but I can't display the drawings, any chance of
putting
it somewhere or sending it by email to me so I can read it please.
dknpower
at ntlworld.com

I don't have it at home, I d/l'd and printed it at work because it's a
big file, probably too big to email.

I downloaded the plug-in to allow viewing of the .TIF files. It's
free. I think it's AlternaTIFF.

Got it sorted and can look now. It's essentially the same circuit really its
just a matter of dumping the inductor into the LED and messing about with
the components until you get it to run off whatever voltage you need it to
run off. When I was messing I couldn't find any concrete effect from
altering the frequency in terms of efficiency, I did sort of half believe
that the slower it went the more efficient it was but the improvement wasn't
really enough to be sure and if you went too slow the LED visibly flashed,
most annoying..
Click to expand...
First I changed the inductor to 220 uH. That slowed it down from 820
to 780 kHz.
I then added a 1.7k trimpot to the 560 ohm to reduce the base bias to
the output transistor. It made the freq decrease a lot, from 780 kHz
to below 500 kHz. But the current decreases dramatically, and of
course the LED dims dramatically too. So I have to change the bias on
the other transistor at the same time, too. I'm considering doubling
the cap values, too to reduce the freq.

Anyway, the idea isn't to slow it down, it's to get it to work up to
1.5 or so VDC. Right now, it quits at 1.18 VDC.

Warm up the soldering iron, it's back to experimenting.


--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@
 
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