TV turns off plugged into surge protector

[Jo]

I have a very inexpensive surge protector with my digital cable box
and 19" CRT tv plugged into it. Last night, about 1 min after I turned
the tv on, it turned off and would not turn back on. I unplugged it
and plugged it back in and the same thing happened again. So I got out
a power strip and plugged it into the same wall outlet. I plugged the
tv into the power strip and the tv worked normally. What does this
mean? Is something wrong with the surge protector or the tv? The cable
box works fine plugged into the surge protector.

 

On Fri, 24 Sep 2010 08:26:19 -0700 (PDT), Jo <agirlnamedjo@gmail.com>
wrote:

I have a very inexpensive surge protector with my digital cable box
and 19" CRT tv plugged into it. Last night, about 1 min after I turned
the tv on, it turned off and would not turn back on. I unplugged it
and plugged it back in and the same thing happened again. So I got out
a power strip and plugged it into the same wall outlet. I plugged the
tv into the power strip and the tv worked normally. What does this
mean? Is something wrong with the surge protector or the tv? The cable
box works fine plugged into the surge protector.
You have 'Electronics Hell'. The parts pass (rudimentary) tests, but

do not work together.

How many outlets are ther in this 'very inexpensive surge protector'?
Have you tried another outlet on the surge protector, or swapping the
TV and cable box plugs to the other outlets if there are no spare
outlets?

If this is an ultra cheap surge protector the most likely cause is a
poor contact between the TV plug and the metal strip in the outlet.

Granted, it's only a cable box and a TV that could be replaced by
picking up a free one on Craigslist, but using an inexpensive surge
protector is a little like buying the cheapest parachute for
skydiving. And no, I'm not suggesting buying a $50 Monster AV800.

PlainBill

 

[Archon]

On 9/24/2010 11:26 AM, Jo wrote:

I have a very inexpensive surge protector with my digital cable box
and 19" CRT tv plugged into it. Last night, about 1 min after I turned
the tv on, it turned off and would not turn back on. I unplugged it
and plugged it back in and the same thing happened again. So I got out
a power strip and plugged it into the same wall outlet. I plugged the
tv into the power strip and the tv worked normally. What does this
mean? Is something wrong with the surge protector or the tv? The cable
box works fine plugged into the surge protector.
Some of these cheap surge protector strips have an indicator showing the

protection circuit is now dead and they cease to operate. presumably
because too many spikes have wiped out the protection device. I had a
couple, they lasted less than 6 months, so I ripped them apart and
rewired them as standard power strips.
JC

 

[William Sommerwerck]

Does the cheap surge protector have a circuit breaker, or similar device?
These can gradually develop a high series resistance. This will cause the
breaker to heat up and open.

I was warned some years ago by a fire marshal that such cheap surge
protector often cause fires by overheating.

 

[Archon]

On 9/24/2010 4:49 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:

Does the cheap surge protector have a circuit breaker, or similar device?
These can gradually develop a high series resistance. This will cause the
breaker to heat up and open.

I was warned some years ago by a fire marshal that such cheap surge
protector often cause fires by overheating.


Its a while back now but I think it had a MOV inside and some crappy

little circuit board. I didn't spend much time looking at it, it annoyed
me as I needed to use the equipment connected to it and didn't have a
spare strip available. So very hasty hatchet job.
JC

 

[William Sommerwerck]

Any protector damaged by a surge was never doing
any protection.

Not according to APC, et al. Most equipment-replacement warrantees require
that the surge protector be damaged. By the manufacturer's reasoning, if the
protector wasn't damaged, then it must have absorbed the surge -- and
therefore the equipment could not have been damaged.

 

[Archon]

On 9/24/2010 7:54 PM, westom wrote:

On Sep 24, 4:57 pm, Archon<Chipbee40_Spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Its a while back now but I think it had a MOV inside and some crappy
little circuit board. I didn't spend much time looking at it, it annoyed
me as I needed to use the equipment connected to it and didn't have a
spare strip available. So very hasty hatchet job.

Any protector damaged by a surge was never doing any protection. In
any facility that can never have damage, the protector is always
located at the service entrance (ie breaker box) with the always
required shot connection to earth.

TV connects directly to AC mains if plugged into that cheap
protector. Only thing between the TV and AC mains a 15 amp circuit
breaker. CB exists on every power strip - with or without protector
circuits. Nothing inside a power strip protector changes electricity.

If the wall receptacle is worn (must be replaced), then a two prong
TV plug can be intermittent. A three prong power strip plug would be
held firmly. TVs also have internal protector circuits. That
safety lockout is reset only by unplugging the TV. Two possible
reasons for TV failure.

Read up on MOV's

From Belkin :

So what does this mean with regard to surge protection? Well, a typical
surge protector (PowerSquid included) utilizes Metal Oxide Varistors
(MOVs) to redirect electric currents above a specified voltage (clamping
voltage) instead of allowing the surge to enter the connected equipment.
The MOV absorbs the excess electrical energy - here is where the joule
comes in - and dissipates it as heat energy. MOVs are rated by the
number of joules that they can absorb, which is a finite number.
Ultimately, after the MOVs absorb all of the joules that they can, the
surge protector will activate its Tripwire Circuit and sacrifice itself
for the betterment of the connected equipment. In other words: you will
have to replace your surge protector,

JC

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

William Sommerwerck wrote:

Any protector damaged by a surge was never doing
any protection.

Not according to APC, et al. Most equipment-replacement warrantees require
that the surge protector be damaged. By the manufacturer's reasoning, if the
protector wasn't damaged, then it must have absorbed the surge -- and
therefore the equipment could not have been damaged.

William, 'westom' AKA 'W_Tom' is a well known troll with a hard-on
for people who use surge protectors. No matter what evidence you
provide, he will deny it and call you an idiot.


--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

 

[westom]

On Sep 24, 4:57 pm, Archon <Chipbee40_Spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Its a while back now but I think it had a MOV inside and some crappy
little circuit board. I didn't spend much time looking at it, it annoyed
me as I needed to use the equipment connected to it and didn't have a
spare strip available. So very hasty hatchet job.

Any protector damaged by a surge was never doing any protection. In
any facility that can never have damage, the protector is always
located at the service entrance (ie breaker box) with the always
required shot connection to earth.

TV connects directly to AC mains if plugged into that cheap
protector. Only thing between the TV and AC mains a 15 amp circuit
breaker. CB exists on every power strip - with or without protector
circuits. Nothing inside a power strip protector changes electricity.

If the wall receptacle is worn (must be replaced), then a two prong
TV plug can be intermittent. A three prong power strip plug would be
held firmly. TVs also have internal protector circuits. That
safety lockout is reset only by unplugging the TV. Two possible
reasons for TV failure.

 

[Archon]

On 9/25/2010 12:44 PM, westom wrote:

On Sep 24, 8:20 pm, Archon<Chipbee40_Spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Read up on MOV's

Snip crazed rant

Provided for Jo are possible reasons why a TV might cut out and why
unplugging resets a lockout function. A cheap protector connected
that TV directly to AC mains. Made no electrical changes. Protector
remains inert - does nothing - until 120 volts exceeds its let-through
voltage: 330 volts. That cheap protector is not modifying
electricity. Something else (maybe mechanical) would explain TV power
off.

You seem to be missing the point.

OP wanted to know why surge power strip ceased to work

I had direct experience of same and explained

I did not and do not promote the effectiveness or usefulness of such
surge power strips.

You provided a total other argument as to why the TV did not work,
totally irrelevant to my post

As Michael says you seem to have a bit of a problem with surge
protectors, not my problem, I'm really not interested.

JC

 

[westom]

On Sep 24, 8:20 pm, Archon <Chipbee40_Spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Read up on MOV's

Quoting from a company promoting a scam makes no sense. You should
"Read up on MOVs" and read the spec numbers. Take your own advice.
How do hundreds of joules in a Belkin absorb surges that are hundreds
of thousands of joules? It doen't. Why do you say otherwise? Because
Belkin told you how to think?

All appliances already contain protection. A surge too small to
overwhelm appliance protection, instead, destroys the protector. That
gets the naive to buy more ineffective protectors and recommend them.
Protectors that work by absorbing energy are a scam. And fail to
promote excessively profitable sales. Take a $3 power strip. Add some
ten cent protector parts. Sell it for a profitable $7 in the grocery
store. Or hype myths to sell that same protector for $40 or $150 to
the most naive.

Or learn what MOVs do when in properly earthed protectors. How to
make a 'whole house' protector even more effective? Increase its
joules. Then it will absorb even *less* energy during the same
surge. Learn from a company promoting a scam. Or learn from MOV
datasheets or even learn from Wikipedia. Effective protectors (and
that means a 'less than 10 foot' connection to earth ground) increase
joules to absorb less energy. Then the protector dissipates hundreds
of thousands of joules harmlessly outside the building.. 'Whole house'
protectors are sold by more responsible companies. Belkin is not on
that list.

What is necessary to protect the Belkin or Jo's cheap power strip
protector? One 'whole house' protector properly earthed to single
point ground.

For about $1 per appliance, a homeowner can earth one 'whole house'
protector that protects everything - more than just the TV. And that
remains functional even after direct lightning strikes. Lightning is
typically 20,000 amps. So the minimal 'whole house' protector starts
at 50,000 amps. 'Whole house' protectors make trivial surges
(hundreds of joules) irrelevant. And earth direct lightning strikes
without damage to appliances or the protector. But that means you
learn about MOVs and the technology from science sources - not from a
company promoting a scam.

Provided for Jo are possible reasons why a TV might cut out and why
unplugging resets a lockout function. A cheap protector connected
that TV directly to AC mains. Made no electrical changes. Protector
remains inert - does nothing - until 120 volts exceeds its let-through
voltage: 330 volts. That cheap protector is not modifying
electricity. Something else (maybe mechanical) would explain TV power
off.

 

[Archon]

On 9/25/2010 2:38 PM, westom wrote:

On Sep 25, 1:24 pm, Archon<Chipbee40_Spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
You seem to be missing the point.
OP wanted to know whysurgepower strip ceased to work
I had direct experience of same and explained

When a power strip surge protector circuit fails, it leaves the load
(TV) still connected to AC mains and the surge. It only disconnects
protector circuits to protect them; not the appliance.

Why did that TV not work when connected directly to the wall? Why
did that TV work when connected via a cheap power strip? Protector
circuit does nothing to change that electricity. Mechanical reasons
(ie a three prong plug holds firmly while a two prong plug does not)
would explain those symptoms. Why are you harping on some irrelevant
electrical functions in a protector that does nothing for Jo's
problem? A TV connected to a cheap protector connects directly to AC
mains. Why would the TV not black out? More likely reason is a
mechanical problem - ie a failing wall receptacle.

Shit, must have been my wall socket as well..........darn it wasted all
my time, shoulda changed the wall socket......DUH, how stupid of me.

OP did not state TV did not work plugged directly into wall socket.
OP stated it worked on another power strip.

You really have issues dontcha.

JC

 

[William Sommerwerck]

I still think this is due to a defective breaker in the "bad" strip. Has the
OP gotten around to checking this?

 

[westom]

On Sep 25, 1:24 pm, Archon <Chipbee40_Spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:

You seem to be missing the point.
OP wanted to know whysurgepower strip ceased to work
I had direct experience of same and explained

When a power strip surge protector circuit fails, it leaves the load
(TV) still connected to AC mains and the surge. It only disconnects
protector circuits to protect them; not the appliance.

Why did that TV not work when connected directly to the wall? Why
did that TV work when connected via a cheap power strip? Protector
circuit does nothing to change that electricity. Mechanical reasons
(ie a three prong plug holds firmly while a two prong plug does not)
would explain those symptoms. Why are you harping on some irrelevant
electrical functions in a protector that does nothing for Jo's
problem? A TV connected to a cheap protector connects directly to AC
mains. Why would the TV not black out? More likely reason is a
mechanical problem - ie a failing wall receptacle.

 

[westom]

On Sep 25, 4:11 pm, "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net>
wrote:

I still think this is due to a defective breaker in the "bad" strip. Has the
OP gotten around to checking this?

A defective breaker is another example of a mechanical defect.
(Except if Jo was reseting the breaker and did not mention that
part.) A power strip protector is no different from any other non-
protector power strip when 120 volts remain below that 330 volts. As
noted repeatedly, being a protector is irrelevant to TV power off.
Either the protector is ripped apart to learn. Or it is binned and
replaced by that better non-protector strip..

 

[William Sommerwerck]

A power strip protector is no different from any other non-
protector power strip when 120 volts remain below that 330 volts.

You're right, Michael. This guy has no idea what's he talking about.

It's worth repeating what the fire marshal told me... Cheap power strips
(whether or not they have surge suppression) often have cheap breakers.
These can develop sufficiently high resistance to the point where they
overheat, even when the current draw is less than the maximum specified. He
said they were a relatively common cause of fires.

 

[bud--]

westom wrote:

On Sep 25, 1:24 pm, Archon <Chipbee40_Spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
You seem to be missing the point.
OP wanted to know whysurgepower strip ceased to work
I had direct experience of same and explained

When a power strip surge protector circuit fails, it leaves the load
(TV) still connected to AC mains and the surge. It only disconnects
protector circuits to protect them; not the appliance.

MOVs normally fail by starting to conduct at "normal" voltages and go
into thermal runaway. In the US, UL has required thermal disconnects for
failing MOVs since 1998.

Many suppressors have the protected load connected across the MOVs, and
the load is disconnected if the MOVs fail. If I remember right, UL
listed suppressors are supposed to say if they are not connected that way.

And Michael is right.

--
bud--