"Tony" <nomail@nospam.com> wrote in message
news7aul7$86n$1@dont-email.me...
On 07-Feb-17 5:15 AM, Benderthe.evilrobot wrote:
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:efs442Fg7ciU1@mid.individual.net...
"Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> wrote in
message news:eo4mA.23709$8K.5710@fx46.am4...
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:efphvdFdimU1@mid.individual.net...
"Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> wrote in
message news:sfMlA.195747$yv3.192638@fx30.am4...
"F Murtz" <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5895e20f$0$55943$b1db1813$65575428@news.astraweb.com...
Lucifer Morningstar wrote:
On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 23:49:55 +1100, F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:
For months I have been having problems with tv reception TV not
working
on most channels for hours, I have been blaming 4g towers, fixed
wireless towers etc that have just been put up etc.
I have just found the cause by accident, almost unbelievable.
TV does not work if the kitchen light is on.
The culprit is one of these, a 12" or so multiple led ceiling
LED
similar to this,
http://imgur.com/a/dj5ha
My electric fence was interfering with my TV reception.
If I had an electric fence that would be one of the first suspects
but who would think turning a light on would cause it,
Its been a possible problem with CFLs for years.
Some of the LED replacement bulbs use a wattless dropper instead of
SMPSU circuitry. You might be able to adapt it, but don't forget to
include a surge limiting resistor - the current is very high around
the zero crossing portion of the AC waveform.
That's mad, the current will be very low around the zero crossing of
the AC waveform.
Three words - "rate of change".
It has nothing to do with rate of change, the voltage by definition
is close to zero, so the current is in fact very low. Ohms law.
Geez - and I thought I wasn't great at AC
theory..........................
A coupling capacitor (wattless dropper) blocks DC, the AC waveform is
almost that at the peaks. The capacitor only passes a rate of change -
that's at its greatest around the zero crossing points.
Maybe you should lay off the booze (or whatever)........
I have put such a circuit in a simulator, and except for the inrush
current I don't see anything like you said.
Try it yourself, like on: http://www.falstad.com/circuit/
Select 'File', 'import from text', and paste this text, a simple example:
$ 1 0.000005 3.452441195350251 45 5 43
s 688 96 752 96 0 0 false
v 752 368 752 96 0 1 50 330 0 0 0.5
d 480 352 480 240 1 0.805904783
d 576 112 576 208 1 0.805904783
w 688 96 576 96 0
w 576 96 576 112 0
w 480 96 576 96 0
w 480 352 480 368 0
d 416 144 416 96 1 0.805904783
d 416 272 416 352 1 0.805904783
w 480 96 416 96 0
w 416 352 416 368 0
w 432 368 480 368 0
370 688 368 752 368 1 0
162 480 224 480 160 1 2.1024259 1 0 0 0.01
162 512 224 512 160 1 2.1024259 1 0 0 0.01
162 544 224 544 160 1 2.1024259 1 0 0 0.01
w 480 144 480 160 0
w 480 160 512 160 0
w 512 160 544 160 0
w 544 224 512 224 0
w 512 224 480 224 0
w 432 144 416 144 0
c 560 368 624 368 0 5e-7 -9.1361757825205
w 688 368 624 368 0
w 560 368 480 368 0
w 416 144 416 160 0
w 416 160 416 272 0
w 432 368 416 368 0
w 432 144 480 144 0
w 480 240 480 224 0
r 560 320 624 320 0 220000
w 560 320 560 368 0
w 624 320 624 368 0
w 576 208 576 224 0
w 480 240 576 240 0
w 576 240 576 224 0
o 1 64 0 2083 640 0.1 0 -1 0
o 30 64 0 2083 640 0.1 1 -1 0
You have to reset the simulation and start again do get the current
range to normal after the inrush.
AFAIK The only important thing to remember is to use at least an X3
rated capacitor and a discharge resistor across the cap, so yo don't
get zapped when touching the open pins.
If you have to reset it after the inrush - that's probably why you're
not seeing the cycle by cycle current peaks around the point of maximum
rate of change.
7dock$fsf$1@dont-email.me...On 08-Feb-17 3:42 AM, Benderthe.evilrobot wrote:
"Tony" <nomail@nospam.com> wrote in message
news
On 07-Feb-17 5:15 AM, Benderthe.evilrobot wrote:
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:efs442Fg7ciU1@mid.individual.net...
"Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> wrote in
message news:eo4mA.23709$8K.5710@fx46.am4...
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:efphvdFdimU1@mid.individual.net...
"Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> wrote in
message news:sfMlA.195747$yv3.192638@fx30.am4...
"F Murtz" <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5895e20f$0$55943$b1db1813$65575428@news.astraweb.com...
Lucifer Morningstar wrote:
On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 23:49:55 +1100, F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:
For months I have been having problems with tv reception TV not
working
on most channels for hours, I have been blaming 4g towers, fixed
wireless towers etc that have just been put up etc.
I have just found the cause by accident, almost unbelievable.
TV does not work if the kitchen light is on.
The culprit is one of these, a 12" or so multiple led ceiling
LED
similar to this,
http://imgur.com/a/dj5ha
My electric fence was interfering with my TV reception.
If I had an electric fence that would be one of the first suspects
but who would think turning a light on would cause it,
Its been a possible problem with CFLs for years.
Some of the LED replacement bulbs use a wattless dropper instead of
SMPSU circuitry. You might be able to adapt it, but don't forget to
include a surge limiting resistor - the current is very high around
the zero crossing portion of the AC waveform.
That's mad, the current will be very low around the zero crossing of
the AC waveform.
Three words - "rate of change".
It has nothing to do with rate of change, the voltage by definition
is close to zero, so the current is in fact very low. Ohms law.
Geez - and I thought I wasn't great at AC
theory..........................
A coupling capacitor (wattless dropper) blocks DC, the AC waveform is
almost that at the peaks. The capacitor only passes a rate of change -
that's at its greatest around the zero crossing points.
Maybe you should lay off the booze (or whatever)........
I have put such a circuit in a simulator, and except for the inrush
current I don't see anything like you said.
Try it yourself, like on: http://www.falstad.com/circuit/
Select 'File', 'import from text', and paste this text, a simple
example:
$ 1 0.000005 3.452441195350251 45 5 43
s 688 96 752 96 0 0 false
v 752 368 752 96 0 1 50 330 0 0 0.5
d 480 352 480 240 1 0.805904783
d 576 112 576 208 1 0.805904783
w 688 96 576 96 0
w 576 96 576 112 0
w 480 96 576 96 0
w 480 352 480 368 0
d 416 144 416 96 1 0.805904783
d 416 272 416 352 1 0.805904783
w 480 96 416 96 0
w 416 352 416 368 0
w 432 368 480 368 0
370 688 368 752 368 1 0
162 480 224 480 160 1 2.1024259 1 0 0 0.01
162 512 224 512 160 1 2.1024259 1 0 0 0.01
162 544 224 544 160 1 2.1024259 1 0 0 0.01
w 480 144 480 160 0
w 480 160 512 160 0
w 512 160 544 160 0
w 544 224 512 224 0
w 512 224 480 224 0
w 432 144 416 144 0
c 560 368 624 368 0 5e-7 -9.1361757825205
w 688 368 624 368 0
w 560 368 480 368 0
w 416 144 416 160 0
w 416 160 416 272 0
w 432 368 416 368 0
w 432 144 480 144 0
w 480 240 480 224 0
r 560 320 624 320 0 220000
w 560 320 560 368 0
w 624 320 624 368 0
w 576 208 576 224 0
w 480 240 576 240 0
w 576 240 576 224 0
o 1 64 0 2083 640 0.1 0 -1 0
o 30 64 0 2083 640 0.1 1 -1 0
You have to reset the simulation and start again do get the current
range to normal after the inrush.
AFAIK The only important thing to remember is to use at least an X3
rated capacitor and a discharge resistor across the cap, so yo don't
get zapped when touching the open pins.
If you have to reset it after the inrush - that's probably why you're
not seeing the cycle by cycle current peaks around the point of maximum
rate of change.
No, you have to reset it because the range of the current display has
expanded so much, by the inrush, that you don't see the normal current
curve.
"Tony" <nomail@nospam.com> wrote in message
news
On 08-Feb-17 3:42 AM, Benderthe.evilrobot wrote:
"Tony" <nomail@nospam.com> wrote in message
news
On 07-Feb-17 5:15 AM, Benderthe.evilrobot wrote:
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:efs442Fg7ciU1@mid.individual.net...
"Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> wrote in
message news:eo4mA.23709$8K.5710@fx46.am4...
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:efphvdFdimU1@mid.individual.net...
"Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com
wrote in
message news:sfMlA.195747$yv3.192638@fx30.am4...
"F Murtz" <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5895e20f$0$55943$b1db1813$65575428@news.astraweb.com...
Lucifer Morningstar wrote:
On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 23:49:55 +1100, F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:
For months I have been having problems with tv reception TV not
working
on most channels for hours, I have been blaming 4g towers,
fixed
wireless towers etc that have just been put up etc.
I have just found the cause by accident, almost unbelievable.
TV does not work if the kitchen light is on.
The culprit is one of these, a 12" or so multiple led ceiling
LED
similar to this,
http://imgur.com/a/dj5ha
My electric fence was interfering with my TV reception.
If I had an electric fence that would be one of the first
suspects
but who would think turning a light on would cause it,
Its been a possible problem with CFLs for years.
Some of the LED replacement bulbs use a wattless dropper
instead of
SMPSU circuitry. You might be able to adapt it, but don't
forget to
include a surge limiting resistor - the current is very high
around
the zero crossing portion of the AC waveform.
That's mad, the current will be very low around the zero
crossing of
the AC waveform.
Three words - "rate of change".
It has nothing to do with rate of change, the voltage by definition
is close to zero, so the current is in fact very low. Ohms law.
Geez - and I thought I wasn't great at AC
theory..........................
A coupling capacitor (wattless dropper) blocks DC, the AC waveform is
almost that at the peaks. The capacitor only passes a rate of change -
that's at its greatest around the zero crossing points.
Maybe you should lay off the booze (or whatever)........
I have put such a circuit in a simulator, and except for the inrush
current I don't see anything like you said.
Try it yourself, like on: http://www.falstad.com/circuit/
Select 'File', 'import from text', and paste this text, a simple
example:
$ 1 0.000005 3.452441195350251 45 5 43
s 688 96 752 96 0 0 false
v 752 368 752 96 0 1 50 330 0 0 0.5
d 480 352 480 240 1 0.805904783
d 576 112 576 208 1 0.805904783
w 688 96 576 96 0
w 576 96 576 112 0
w 480 96 576 96 0
w 480 352 480 368 0
d 416 144 416 96 1 0.805904783
d 416 272 416 352 1 0.805904783
w 480 96 416 96 0
w 416 352 416 368 0
w 432 368 480 368 0
370 688 368 752 368 1 0
162 480 224 480 160 1 2.1024259 1 0 0 0.01
162 512 224 512 160 1 2.1024259 1 0 0 0.01
162 544 224 544 160 1 2.1024259 1 0 0 0.01
w 480 144 480 160 0
w 480 160 512 160 0
w 512 160 544 160 0
w 544 224 512 224 0
w 512 224 480 224 0
w 432 144 416 144 0
c 560 368 624 368 0 5e-7 -9.1361757825205
w 688 368 624 368 0
w 560 368 480 368 0
w 416 144 416 160 0
w 416 160 416 272 0
w 432 368 416 368 0
w 432 144 480 144 0
w 480 240 480 224 0
r 560 320 624 320 0 220000
w 560 320 560 368 0
w 624 320 624 368 0
w 576 208 576 224 0
w 480 240 576 240 0
w 576 240 576 224 0
o 1 64 0 2083 640 0.1 0 -1 0
o 30 64 0 2083 640 0.1 1 -1 0
You have to reset the simulation and start again do get the current
range to normal after the inrush.
AFAIK The only important thing to remember is to use at least an X3
rated capacitor and a discharge resistor across the cap, so yo don't
get zapped when touching the open pins.
If you have to reset it after the inrush - that's probably why you're
not seeing the cycle by cycle current peaks around the point of maximum
rate of change.
No, you have to reset it because the range of the current display has
expanded so much, by the inrush, that you don't see the normal current
curve.
"normal current curve"? - its only the sinusoidal drive that takes the
edge off the capacitor current that peaks around the zero crossing point.
You could switch the circuit on *ANYWHERE* on the cycle - it could be at
the peak and cause a big current pulse, or at zero where it starts at
zero and rises pretty much the same as continuous operation.
The AC current in a theoretically ideal capacitor leads voltage by 90
degrees - its not some great mystery from an alternate universe with
different laws of physics.
7g50g$v9d$1@dont-email.me...On 09-Feb-17 3:18 AM, Benderthe.evilrobot wrote:
"Tony" <nomail@nospam.com> wrote in message
news
On 08-Feb-17 3:42 AM, Benderthe.evilrobot wrote:
"Tony" <nomail@nospam.com> wrote in message
news
On 07-Feb-17 5:15 AM, Benderthe.evilrobot wrote:
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:efs442Fg7ciU1@mid.individual.net...
"Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> wrote in
message news:eo4mA.23709$8K.5710@fx46.am4...
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:efphvdFdimU1@mid.individual.net...
"Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com
wrote in
message news:sfMlA.195747$yv3.192638@fx30.am4...
"F Murtz" <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5895e20f$0$55943$b1db1813$65575428@news.astraweb.com...
Lucifer Morningstar wrote:
On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 23:49:55 +1100, F Murtz
haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:
For months I have been having problems with tv reception TV
not
working
on most channels for hours, I have been blaming 4g towers,
fixed
wireless towers etc that have just been put up etc.
I have just found the cause by accident, almost unbelievable.
TV does not work if the kitchen light is on.
The culprit is one of these, a 12" or so multiple led ceiling
LED
similar to this,
http://imgur.com/a/dj5ha
My electric fence was interfering with my TV reception.
If I had an electric fence that would be one of the first
suspects
but who would think turning a light on would cause it,
Its been a possible problem with CFLs for years.
Some of the LED replacement bulbs use a wattless dropper
instead of
SMPSU circuitry. You might be able to adapt it, but don't
forget to
include a surge limiting resistor - the current is very high
around
the zero crossing portion of the AC waveform.
That's mad, the current will be very low around the zero
crossing of
the AC waveform.
Three words - "rate of change".
It has nothing to do with rate of change, the voltage by definition
is close to zero, so the current is in fact very low. Ohms law.
Geez - and I thought I wasn't great at AC
theory..........................
A coupling capacitor (wattless dropper) blocks DC, the AC waveform is
almost that at the peaks. The capacitor only passes a rate of
change -
that's at its greatest around the zero crossing points.
Maybe you should lay off the booze (or whatever)........
I have put such a circuit in a simulator, and except for the inrush
current I don't see anything like you said.
Try it yourself, like on: http://www.falstad.com/circuit/
Select 'File', 'import from text', and paste this text, a simple
example:
$ 1 0.000005 3.452441195350251 45 5 43
s 688 96 752 96 0 0 false
v 752 368 752 96 0 1 50 330 0 0 0.5
d 480 352 480 240 1 0.805904783
d 576 112 576 208 1 0.805904783
w 688 96 576 96 0
w 576 96 576 112 0
w 480 96 576 96 0
w 480 352 480 368 0
d 416 144 416 96 1 0.805904783
d 416 272 416 352 1 0.805904783
w 480 96 416 96 0
w 416 352 416 368 0
w 432 368 480 368 0
370 688 368 752 368 1 0
162 480 224 480 160 1 2.1024259 1 0 0 0.01
162 512 224 512 160 1 2.1024259 1 0 0 0.01
162 544 224 544 160 1 2.1024259 1 0 0 0.01
w 480 144 480 160 0
w 480 160 512 160 0
w 512 160 544 160 0
w 544 224 512 224 0
w 512 224 480 224 0
w 432 144 416 144 0
c 560 368 624 368 0 5e-7 -9.1361757825205
w 688 368 624 368 0
w 560 368 480 368 0
w 416 144 416 160 0
w 416 160 416 272 0
w 432 368 416 368 0
w 432 144 480 144 0
w 480 240 480 224 0
r 560 320 624 320 0 220000
w 560 320 560 368 0
w 624 320 624 368 0
w 576 208 576 224 0
w 480 240 576 240 0
w 576 240 576 224 0
o 1 64 0 2083 640 0.1 0 -1 0
o 30 64 0 2083 640 0.1 1 -1 0
You have to reset the simulation and start again do get the current
range to normal after the inrush.
AFAIK The only important thing to remember is to use at least an X3
rated capacitor and a discharge resistor across the cap, so yo don't
get zapped when touching the open pins.
If you have to reset it after the inrush - that's probably why you're
not seeing the cycle by cycle current peaks around the point of maximum
rate of change.
No, you have to reset it because the range of the current display has
expanded so much, by the inrush, that you don't see the normal current
curve.
"normal current curve"? - its only the sinusoidal drive that takes the
edge off the capacitor current that peaks around the zero crossing point.
You could switch the circuit on *ANYWHERE* on the cycle - it could be at
the peak and cause a big current pulse, or at zero where it starts at
zero and rises pretty much the same as continuous operation.
The AC current in a theoretically ideal capacitor leads voltage by 90
degrees - its not some great mystery from an alternate universe with
different laws of physics.
It's you that need to get real. The current does not "get very high'
around the zero crossing. It just reaches its maximum there because of the
phase shift of the capacitor.
h2q9cpb4dasa6c8lkbtkl0ei0ikc7tlge@4ax.com..."Petzl" <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote in message
news
On Thu, 9 Feb 2017 21:51:41 -0000, "Benderthe.evilrobot"
Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> wrote:
Your twisting what I said doesn't make it any less real.
Would like to know how old "F Murtz" aerial is?
Is it a old Analogue or new digital?
The conversation in question had nothing whatever to do with any aerial.
"Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> wrote in
message news:BPonA.802555$SV2.644835@fx39.am4...
"Petzl" <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote in message
news
On Thu, 9 Feb 2017 21:51:41 -0000, "Benderthe.evilrobot"
Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> wrote:
Your twisting what I said doesn't make it any less real.
Would like to know how old "F Murtz" aerial is?
Is it a old Analogue or new digital?
The conversation in question had nothing whatever to do with any aerial.
That's very arguable. If the aerial is doing a decent job,
the sort of crap that the worst of the led lights put out
should be enough to stop the TV reception with digital.
"Petzl" <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote in message
news
On Thu, 9 Feb 2017 21:51:41 -0000, "Benderthe.evilrobot"
Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com> wrote:
Your twisting what I said doesn't make it any less real.
Would like to know how old "F Murtz" aerial is?
Is it a old Analogue or new digital?
The conversation in question had nothing whatever to do with any aerial.