Tube (valve) amplifier question

I have decided to build myself a little tube amplifier so I can hear
one and compare it to my modern solid state stuff. Virtually all the
kits and designs I see online are low wattage output compared to the
solid state stuff. I read that part of the reason for this is because
a tube amp at maximum output distorts the sound in a way that most
folks find agreeable whereas transistor amps distort in a way that
most folks don't like at all. So the transistor amps are used well
below their maximum output while tube amps can be used all the way to
full output. Is this true? See this link:
http://www.s5electronics.com/gstereo.html
This amp is an example of what I would like to build but 8 watts seems
like I wouldn't be able to really blast the music, which I sometimes
like to do. I will be using the amp in my machine shop which
currently is provided with sound by a Pioneer SX-434, which according
to the manual puts out 15 watts per channel. So I would really
appreciate some advice from the folks here about tube amps.
Thanks,
Eric

 

[George Herold]

On Monday, June 15, 2015 at 11:54:27 AM UTC-4, et...@whidbey.com wrote:

I have decided to build myself a little tube amplifier so I can hear
one and compare it to my modern solid state stuff. Virtually all the
kits and designs I see online are low wattage output compared to the
solid state stuff. I read that part of the reason for this is because
a tube amp at maximum output distorts the sound in a way that most
folks find agreeable whereas transistor amps distort in a way that
most folks don't like at all. So the transistor amps are used well
below their maximum output while tube amps can be used all the way to
full output. Is this true? See this link:
http://www.s5electronics.com/gstereo.html
This amp is an example of what I would like to build but 8 watts seems
like I wouldn't be able to really blast the music, which I sometimes
like to do. I will be using the amp in my machine shop which
currently is provided with sound by a Pioneer SX-434, which according
to the manual puts out 15 watts per channel. So I would really
appreciate some advice from the folks here about tube amps.
Thanks,
Eric

Knowing next to nothing about tube amps, I think they are class A,
which is wasteful of power.

Perhaps you can find an Audiophile nearby and go listen to his.
(And spend your electronic energy on something more useful.)

George H.

 

Get a membership at Audiokarma. A whole bunch of people there with these thoughts. there is a section devoted to tube audio.

See you there, you'll recognize me.

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 15 Jun 2015 09:00:20 -0700, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

I have decided to build myself a little tube amplifier so I can hear
one and compare it to my modern solid state stuff. Virtually all the
kits and designs I see online are low wattage output compared to the
solid state stuff. I read that part of the reason for this is because
a tube amp at maximum output distorts the sound in a way that most
folks find agreeable whereas transistor amps distort in a way that
most folks don't like at all. So the transistor amps are used well
below their maximum output while tube amps can be used all the way to
full output. Is this true?

No. It's just a lot easier to build a high power transistor amp than
it is to make a high power tube amp. That's because transistors and
mosfets mount on heat sinks, and tubes don't. Not to mention the cost
of a high power, 20-20KHz output transformer.



See this link:
>http://www.s5electronics.com/gstereo.html

I bet that can't do full power at 20 Hz, with those dinky
transformers.

The tubes will eventually roast the FR4 pc board, too.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 15 Jun 2015 11:18:01 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
<gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

On Monday, June 15, 2015 at 11:54:27 AM UTC-4, et...@whidbey.com wrote:
I have decided to build myself a little tube amplifier so I can hear
one and compare it to my modern solid state stuff. Virtually all the
kits and designs I see online are low wattage output compared to the
solid state stuff. I read that part of the reason for this is because
a tube amp at maximum output distorts the sound in a way that most
folks find agreeable whereas transistor amps distort in a way that
most folks don't like at all. So the transistor amps are used well
below their maximum output while tube amps can be used all the way to
full output. Is this true? See this link:
http://www.s5electronics.com/gstereo.html
This amp is an example of what I would like to build but 8 watts seems
like I wouldn't be able to really blast the music, which I sometimes
like to do. I will be using the amp in my machine shop which
currently is provided with sound by a Pioneer SX-434, which according
to the manual puts out 15 watts per channel. So I would really
appreciate some advice from the folks here about tube amps.
Thanks,
Eric

Knowing next to nothing about tube amps, I think they are class A,
which is wasteful of power.

Some are push-pull AB. They need feedback to avoid crossover
distortion, and purists don't like (more like don't understand)
feedback.

Class A does fry tubes and limit available power.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[Tim Wescott]

On Mon, 15 Jun 2015 09:00:20 -0700, etpm wrote:

I have decided to build myself a little tube amplifier so I can hear one
and compare it to my modern solid state stuff. Virtually all the kits
and designs I see online are low wattage output compared to the solid
state stuff. I read that part of the reason for this is because a tube
amp at maximum output distorts the sound in a way that most folks find
agreeable whereas transistor amps distort in a way that most folks don't
like at all. So the transistor amps are used well below their maximum
output while tube amps can be used all the way to full output. Is this
true? See this link: http://www.s5electronics.com/gstereo.html This amp
is an example of what I would like to build but 8 watts seems like I
wouldn't be able to really blast the music, which I sometimes like to
do. I will be using the amp in my machine shop which currently is
provided with sound by a Pioneer SX-434, which according to the manual
puts out 15 watts per channel. So I would really appreciate some advice
from the folks here about tube amps.
Thanks,
Eric

Uhhhhh --

The bit about distortion is definitely true for guitar amps, more
questionable for listening amps. There's a whole lot of verbiage on the
subject floating around on the net.

Most kits are for low-power amps because high-power output transformers
for tube amps are _spendy_. Power supply transformers (if you go old
school) aren't very far behind. Most of your BOM cost will go into
transformers, and that cost roughly scales with power.

Personally, I think the only reason to use tubes in an audio chain is for
retro-cool. Some people feel that a tube preamp in an otherwise solid-
state amplification chain gives better tone to the music (they also
obviously feel it sells amps -- if an amp has vacuum-state preamps they
will very likely be visible from the front panel).

People who feel that stereo amps are best done with vacuum tubes also
tend to believe that the sound will be enhanced by dipping the power cord
in liquid nitrogen, which makes me skeptical about their enthusiasm.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

 

[Baron]

Tim Wescott prodded the keyboard with:

On Mon, 15 Jun 2015 09:00:20 -0700, etpm wrote:

I have decided to build myself a little tube amplifier so I can
hear one
and compare it to my modern solid state stuff. Virtually all the
kits and designs I see online are low wattage output compared to
the solid state stuff. I read that part of the reason for this is
because a tube amp at maximum output distorts the sound in a way
that most folks find agreeable whereas transistor amps distort in a
way that most folks don't like at all. So the transistor amps are
used well below their maximum output while tube amps can be used
all the way to full output. Is this true? See this link:
http://www.s5electronics.com/gstereo.html This amp is an example of
what I would like to build but 8 watts seems like I wouldn't be
able to really blast the music, which I sometimes like to
do. I will be using the amp in my machine shop which currently is
provided with sound by a Pioneer SX-434, which according to the
manual puts out 15 watts per channel. So I would really appreciate
some advice from the folks here about tube amps.
Thanks,
Eric

Uhhhhh --

The bit about distortion is definitely true for guitar amps, more
questionable for listening amps. There's a whole lot of verbiage on
the subject floating around on the net.

Most kits are for low-power amps because high-power output
transformers
for tube amps are _spendy_. Power supply transformers (if you go
old
school) aren't very far behind. Most of your BOM cost will go into
transformers, and that cost roughly scales with power.

Personally, I think the only reason to use tubes in an audio chain
is for
retro-cool. Some people feel that a tube preamp in an otherwise
solid- state amplification chain gives better tone to the music
(they also obviously feel it sells amps -- if an amp has
vacuum-state preamps they will very likely be visible from the front
panel).

People who feel that stereo amps are best done with vacuum tubes
also tend to believe that the sound will be enhanced by dipping the
power cord in liquid nitrogen, which makes me skeptical about their
enthusiasm.

He needs an old "Trix" cinema amp to play with

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Mon, 15 Jun 2015 14:23:16 -0500, Tim Wescott
<seemywebsite@myfooter.really> wrote:

[snip]

People who feel that stereo amps are best done with vacuum tubes also
tend to believe that the sound will be enhanced by dipping the power cord
in liquid nitrogen, which makes me skeptical about their enthusiasm.

No! You must dip the cord in red wine >:-}

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Phil Allison]

et...@whidbey.com wrote:

I have decided to build myself a little tube amplifier so I can hear
one and compare it to my modern solid state stuff. Virtually all the
kits and designs I see online are low wattage output compared to the
solid state stuff. I read that part of the reason for this is because
a tube amp at maximum output distorts the sound in a way that most
folks find agreeable whereas transistor amps distort in a way that
most folks don't like at all.

** That is mostly a myth.

Firstly, no hi-fi amp should ever be driven deliberately into clipping as this defeats the whole idea of hi-fi.

Secondly, occasional clipping of signal peaks ( a few times per second for example) is inaudible with both tube and SS amps.


So the transistor amps are used well

below their maximum output while tube amps can be used all the way to
full output. Is this true?

** No.

This amp is an example of what I would like to build but 8 watts seems
like I wouldn't be able to really blast the music, which I sometimes
like to do. I will be using the amp in my machine shop

** You for real ?

Hi-fi sound in a machine shop ??



.... Phil