Transport Saturation Current (Is) in a BJT

P

Paul_M

Guest
I'm trying to find out exactly what the Transport Saturation Current
(Is) is that the Ebers Moll equation relates to. Typical values are
10e-16, this value is so small that it can't possibly be the Collector
or Emitter current when the transistor is in saturation. All materials
I've read give hardly any explanation and I've searched the internet
for some days now. The Art of electronics book just says that it's the
Saturation current of the particular transistor (depends on T) and in
a different paragraph it says that it represents the reverse leakage
current.
I find this very confusing. Can anyone enlighten me?

Regards

Paul
 
On 16 Apr 2004 10:30:00 -0700, p.a.mcgurk@virgin.net (Paul_M) wrote:

I'm trying to find out exactly what the Transport Saturation Current
(Is) is that the Ebers Moll equation relates to. Typical values are
10e-16, this value is so small that it can't possibly be the Collector
or Emitter current when the transistor is in saturation. All materials
I've read give hardly any explanation and I've searched the internet
for some days now. The Art of electronics book just says that it's the
Saturation current of the particular transistor (depends on T) and in
a different paragraph it says that it represents the reverse leakage
current.
I find this very confusing. Can anyone enlighten me?

Regards

Paul
Click to expand...
Approximately...

Ie = Is*(e^(q*vbe/k/T)-1)

*Roughly*, Is is the reverse *leakage* current.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
Thanks for the info Jim,
I did see this equation, in the "Art of electronics" book, but in a
slightly different form. I can see now why it would be the reverse
leakage current due to the Base-Collector junction being reverse
biased in the Forward Active region and a base-emitter voltage
increase corresponding to a collector current increase (60mV to a 10
fold increase in Collector current).
Also I've found something that states that :
Is = Js.A
where Js is the Transport current density and
A is the emitter area.
Can you recommend anything that goes into this a little deeper?

Regards

Paul


Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message news:<n8a080pjp23t4jj2mlr4sce1sm7d2e9tct@4ax.com>...
On 16 Apr 2004 10:30:00 -0700, p.a.mcgurk@virgin.net (Paul_M) wrote:

I'm trying to find out exactly what the Transport Saturation Current
(Is) is that the Ebers Moll equation relates to. Typical values are
10e-16, this value is so small that it can't possibly be the Collector
or Emitter current when the transistor is in saturation. All materials
I've read give hardly any explanation and I've searched the internet
for some days now. The Art of electronics book just says that it's the
Saturation current of the particular transistor (depends on T) and in
a different paragraph it says that it represents the reverse leakage
current.
I find this very confusing. Can anyone enlighten me?

Regards

Paul

Approximately...

Ie = Is*(e^(q*vbe/k/T)-1)

*Roughly*, Is is the reverse *leakage* current.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Click to expand...
 
p.a.mcgurk@virgin.net (Paul_M) wrote in message news:<ac118a94.0404161608.5c8bc14a@posting.google.com>...
Thanks for the info Jim,
I did see this equation, in the "Art of electronics" book, but in a
slightly different form. I can see now why it would be the reverse
leakage current due to the Base-Collector junction being reverse
biased in the Forward Active region and a base-emitter voltage
increase corresponding to a collector current increase (60mV to a 10
fold increase in Collector current).
Also I've found something that states that :
Is = Js.A
where Js is the Transport current density and
A is the emitter area.
Can you recommend anything that goes into this a little deeper?
Click to expand...
For far more detail, especially the "next model up" (Gummel-Poon)
which is a superset of Ebers-Moll:

http://eesof.tm.agilent.com/docs/iccap2002/MDLGBOOK/7DEVICE_MODELING/3TRANSISTORS/1GummelPoon/GP_DOCU.pdf
 
On 18 Apr 2004 19:57:01 -0700, mymantra@yahoo.com (Mantra) wrote:

p.a.mcgurk@virgin.net (Paul_M) wrote in message news:<ac118a94.0404161608.5c8bc14a@posting.google.com>...
Thanks for the info Jim,
I did see this equation, in the "Art of electronics" book, but in a
slightly different form. I can see now why it would be the reverse
leakage current due to the Base-Collector junction being reverse
biased in the Forward Active region and a base-emitter voltage
increase corresponding to a collector current increase (60mV to a 10
fold increase in Collector current).
Also I've found something that states that :
Is = Js.A
where Js is the Transport current density and
A is the emitter area.
Can you recommend anything that goes into this a little deeper?

For far more detail, especially the "next model up" (Gummel-Poon)
which is a superset of Ebers-Moll:

http://eesof.tm.agilent.com/docs/iccap2002/MDLGBOOK/7DEVICE_MODELING/3TRANSISTORS/1GummelPoon/GP_DOCU.pdf
Click to expand...
And for some real device performance, see "BetaCurves.pdf" on the
S.E.D/Schematics Page of my website.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:24:15 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On 18 Apr 2004 19:57:01 -0700, mymantra@yahoo.com (Mantra) wrote:

p.a.mcgurk@virgin.net (Paul_M) wrote in message news:<ac118a94.0404161608.5c8bc14a@posting.google.com>...
Thanks for the info Jim,
I did see this equation, in the "Art of electronics" book, but in a
slightly different form. I can see now why it would be the reverse
leakage current due to the Base-Collector junction being reverse
biased in the Forward Active region and a base-emitter voltage
increase corresponding to a collector current increase (60mV to a 10
fold increase in Collector current).
Also I've found something that states that :
Is = Js.A
where Js is the Transport current density and
A is the emitter area.
Can you recommend anything that goes into this a little deeper?

For far more detail, especially the "next model up" (Gummel-Poon)
which is a superset of Ebers-Moll:

http://eesof.tm.agilent.com/docs/iccap2002/MDLGBOOK/7DEVICE_MODELING/3TRANSISTORS/1GummelPoon/GP_DOCU.pdf

And for some real device performance, see "BetaCurves.pdf" on the
S.E.D/Schematics Page of my website.

...Jim Thompson
Click to expand...
Seems to me that actual device leakage currents are somewhat larger
(as in, say, 1e6 times larger) than is suggested by a value of Is that
explains the forward curves.

John
 
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:21:17 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:24:15 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:
[snip]
S.E.D/Schematics Page of my website.

...Jim Thompson

Seems to me that actual device leakage currents are somewhat larger
(as in, say, 1e6 times larger) than is suggested by a value of Is that
explains the forward curves.

John
Click to expand...
That's why I put "leakage" in quotes... it's called "leakage" in the
literature, but real "leakage" is due to crystal misalignments,
extraneous dopants and just plain dirt.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
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